Why the Stimulus Failed

[ClosedCaption]

which part didnt work the Part Obama wanted or the part the GOP wanted?

 

[Sallow]

The Stimulus was a success.

In these times of change and uncertainty, it's so refreshing to see you consistently remain a complete moron.

Liar.

boedicca new theme song!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vgQalXaIxs]Liar - YouTube[/ame]

 

[boedicca]

which part didnt work the Part Obama wanted or the part the GOP wanted?

Uh. The GOP voted against the Stimulus Bill. It was passed by a Democrat controlled House and Senate, and signed by Obama.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Still lying eh? Need to stop projecting TM. The fact is the economy was not stimulated. More people are unemployed now than before the stimulus.

You can cite whomever you want but as long as they ignore the facts, they are lying just as much as you are.

Then why are you ignoring facts?

GDP growth was better in the past two year than in the previous 8. You have no explanation for this. Or maybe you're just choosing to ignore it. I don't know. Also, we were losing 600,000-700,000 jobs a month in early 2009 and now are either flat line or slightly gaining. Again, that's an improvement that you are choosing to ignore or have no explanation for.

Which is it? Are you ignoring facts? Or can you just not explain what's happening?

Do your analysis for the period ending in 2007, and then get back to us.

And then compare the recoveries of past recessions to this one. The Great Recession ended in June 2009. After 8 quarters, we haven't recovered in real dollar terms what GDP was at the beginning of the recession.

According to U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, Real GDP in Q4-2007 was $13,326B. The Q2-2011 figure is $13,260B.

So after the biggest spending binge in human history, we are still below the peak GDP prior to the recession - with over 2M jobs lost since Obama took office.

You can look up the data here:

http://www.bea.gov/iTable/index_nipa.cfm

1) It was not the biggest spending "binge" in U.S. history. We have had higher.
2) Why are you choosing to start with 2007Q4? Obama wasn't president then.
3) When speaking about GDP, you're going to quibble over .5%?

 

[DontBeStupid]

Not ignoring anything.

So you admit unemployment is gone up.

Thats our economic stimulus?

Please.

I didn't mention unemployment at all, actually, but okay, if you want to talk about that ... it was predicted to go as high as 11% and it is 9.1%. That's an increase of 1.3% above what Obama inherited. Also, I don't know anyone who claims the Stimulus was the greatest jobs plan ever. 1/3 of it was tax cuts, and they are terrible for job creation. 1/3 was aid to states, which just kept states from firing people. Only 1/3 was direct spending on job creation.

So again, I will ask, why are you ignoring the numbers I posted? Or do you just not have an explanation for them?

It was predicted to go as high as 11% WITHOUT THE STIMULUS. With the Stimulus, it was supposed to peak at no more than 8%.

Uhm, no. Did you read the report?

 

[ClosedCaption]

which part didnt work the Part Obama wanted or the part the GOP wanted?

Uh. The GOP voted against the Stimulus Bill. It was passed by a Democrat controlled House and Senate, and signed by Obama.

Yeah I know, but which part of the stimulus is responsible for failing? The Obama part or the GOP part?

 

[DontBeStupid]

which part didnt work the Part Obama wanted or the part the GOP wanted?

Uh. The GOP voted against the Stimulus Bill. It was passed by a Democrat controlled House and Senate, and signed by Obama.

And contained 1/3 tax cuts because the GOP wanted tax cuts.

 

[Sallow]

which part didnt work the Part Obama wanted or the part the GOP wanted?

Stimulus added jobs, just not enough - Sep. 8, 2011

What the GOP wants is to shrink the American government and drag it to the bathroom to drown it.

They signed a pledge with the man who put that ideology into play. Grover Norquist.

Conservatives want the utter destruction of the United States Government. Nothing less will do.

 

[boedicca]

Then why are you ignoring facts?

GDP growth was better in the past two year than in the previous 8. You have no explanation for this. Or maybe you're just choosing to ignore it. I don't know. Also, we were losing 600,000-700,000 jobs a month in early 2009 and now are either flat line or slightly gaining. Again, that's an improvement that you are choosing to ignore or have no explanation for.

Which is it? Are you ignoring facts? Or can you just not explain what's happening?

Do your analysis for the period ending in 2007, and then get back to us.

And then compare the recoveries of past recessions to this one. The Great Recession ended in June 2009. After 8 quarters, we haven't recovered in real dollar terms what GDP was at the beginning of the recession.

According to U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis, Real GDP in Q4-2007 was $13,326B. The Q2-2011 figure is $13,260B.

So after the biggest spending binge in human history, we are still below the peak GDP prior to the recession - with over 2M jobs lost since Obama took office.

You can look up the data here:

http://www.bea.gov/iTable/index_nipa.cfm

1) It was not the biggest spending "binge" in U.S. history. We have had higher.
2) Why are you choosing to start with 2007Q4? Obama wasn't president then.
3) When speaking about GDP, you're going to quibble over .5%?

1) Please identify another time when the U.S. took on $4T of debt in real terms in a three year period.

2) Q4-2007 is the when the recession started - it ended in Q2-2009. The valid way to analyze the impact of Obama's policies is from the end of the recession. His recovery is the worst in recent history.

3) It's not quibbling to point out that after 8 quarters and $4T dollars we haven't fully recovered GDP. After prior deep recessions, it took only 2-3 quarter to recover and surpass the prior peak GDP. Again, this is evidence of the Epic Fail of Obama's policies.

Really, a little bit of economic literacy wouldn't hurt you.

 

[boedicca]

which part didnt work the Part Obama wanted or the part the GOP wanted?

Stimulus added jobs, just not enough - Sep. 8, 2011

What the GOP wants is to shrink the American government and drag it to the bathroom to drown it.

They signed a pledge with the man who put that ideology into play. Grover Norquist.

Conservatives want the utter destruction of the United States Government. Nothing less will do.

The economy naturally creates (and loses) about 4M jobs per year. All the government is doing is taking credit for anemic creation without offsetting the lost jobs.

The true figure is that over 2M jobs have been lost since Obama took office. Total Employment levels are lower. The Labor Force Participation Rate is lower.

 

[DontBeStupid]

1) It was not the biggest spending "binge" in U.S. history. We have had higher.
2) Why are you choosing to start with 2007Q4? Obama wasn't president then.
3) When speaking about GDP, you're going to quibble over .5%?

1) Please identify another time when the U.S. took on $4T of debt in real terms in a three year period.

2) Q4-2007 is the when the recession started - it ended in Q2-2009. The valid way to analyze the impact of Obama's policies is from the end of the recession. His recovery is the worst in recent history.

3) It's not quibbling to point out that after 8 quarters and $4T dollars we haven't fully recovered GDP. After prior deep recessions, it took only 2-3 quarter to recover and surpass the prior peak GDP. Again, this is evidence of the Epic Fail of Obama's policies.

Really, a little bit of economic literacy wouldn't hurt you.

1) 1942 - 1946.
2) You need to clarify. You said "The valid way to analyze the impact of Obama's policies is from the end of the recession". But then you want me to start in 2007Q4 which you claim is the BEGINNING of the recession. Which is it?
3) Off the top of my head, I can't remember another recession where we lost 8% and then 6% in consecutive quarters. Which prior deep recession are you referring to?

 

[The Rabbi]

1) It was not the biggest spending "binge" in U.S. history. We have had higher.
2) Why are you choosing to start with 2007Q4? Obama wasn't president then.
3) When speaking about GDP, you're going to quibble over .5%?

1) Please identify another time when the U.S. took on $4T of debt in real terms in a three year period.

2) Q4-2007 is the when the recession started - it ended in Q2-2009. The valid way to analyze the impact of Obama's policies is from the end of the recession. His recovery is the worst in recent history.

3) It's not quibbling to point out that after 8 quarters and $4T dollars we haven't fully recovered GDP. After prior deep recessions, it took only 2-3 quarter to recover and surpass the prior peak GDP. Again, this is evidence of the Epic Fail of Obama's policies.

Really, a little bit of economic literacy wouldn't hurt you.

1) 1942 - 1946.
2) You need to clarify. You said "The valid way to analyze the impact of Obama's policies is from the end of the recession". But then you want me to start in 2007Q4 which you claim is the BEGINNING of the recession. Which is it?
3) Off the top of my head, I can't remember another recession where we lost 8% and then 6% in consecutive quarters. Which prior deep recession are you referring to?

1942-1946 we faced the double threat of war with Japan and Germany. It was money well spent.
What national threat did we have that justified spending that much money, and what did we get for it?

We have never had another recession where we lost as much. That would include the severe ones in 1980ff and 1974ff.

Read the second article and he details all the 'accomplishments" of the Obama Administration. And it aint pretty.

 

[boedicca]

I didn't mention unemployment at all, actually, but okay, if you want to talk about that ... it was predicted to go as high as 11% and it is 9.1%. That's an increase of 1.3% above what Obama inherited. Also, I don't know anyone who claims the Stimulus was the greatest jobs plan ever. 1/3 of it was tax cuts, and they are terrible for job creation. 1/3 was aid to states, which just kept states from firing people. Only 1/3 was direct spending on job creation.

So again, I will ask, why are you ignoring the numbers I posted? Or do you just not have an explanation for them?

It was predicted to go as high as 11% WITHOUT THE STIMULUS. With the Stimulus, it was supposed to peak at no more than 8%.

Uhm, no. Did you read the report?

Yes. I did. Clearly you did not.

 

[boedicca]

Obama never made that claim.

His economic advisors made that claim in "The Job Impact of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan". You can read it for yourself in PDF form in the first item of the references:

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That report has estimates based on information available in early January 2009. Before Obama and any of his team took office. The estimates were refined a few months later after Obama took office. Not to mention, I'm sure you're referring to the graph as being proof of some "claim". Why then are you ignoring the part that says unemployment could go as high as 11%? Why only use part of the report?

The report was from his economic team and published in January 2009, shortly before Obama took office. That report was the justification for the Stimulus - and claimed that if it were passed, unemployment would peak at 8%.

Your lack of reading comprehension is only outdone by your economic illiteracy.

 

[boedicca]

1) It was not the biggest spending "binge" in U.S. history. We have had higher.
2) Why are you choosing to start with 2007Q4? Obama wasn't president then.
3) When speaking about GDP, you're going to quibble over .5%?

1) Please identify another time when the U.S. took on $4T of debt in real terms in a three year period.

2) Q4-2007 is the when the recession started - it ended in Q2-2009. The valid way to analyze the impact of Obama's policies is from the end of the recession. His recovery is the worst in recent history.

3) It's not quibbling to point out that after 8 quarters and $4T dollars we haven't fully recovered GDP. After prior deep recessions, it took only 2-3 quarter to recover and surpass the prior peak GDP. Again, this is evidence of the Epic Fail of Obama's policies.

Really, a little bit of economic literacy wouldn't hurt you.

1) 1942 - 1946.

That's a four year period, not three years. In CPI adjusted dollars, total debt was $947B in 1942, and $2.7t in 1946. That's $1.75T in four years, which is far less than $4T in 3 - and most of that was for the war effort. We are not fighting anything like a World War right now.

http://www.data360.org/dataset.aspx?Data_Set_Id=669&transpose=row

2) You need to clarify. You said "The valid way to analyze the impact of Obama's policies is from the end of the recession". But then you want me to start in 2007Q4 which you claim is the BEGINNING of the recession. Which is it?

Both the beginning and the end are relevant. If you want to judge GDP recovery, compare current to both points, and how long the recovery is taking to catch up to the last peak.

3) Off the top of my head, I can't remember another recession where we lost 8% and then 6% in consecutive quarters. Which prior deep recession are you referring to?

It's clear you haven't studied the topic much. The twin recessions in the early 80s were just as bad as the 2007-2009 one.

File:GDP growth 1923-2009.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The difference is that the policies of Reagan and Volcker tamed inflation (which was in the double digit range) and then set the stage for high growth.

Obama's have done the opposite.