Why the Pentagon is blocking Abu Ghraib images

[Said1]

What bothers me the most is how the average military person has to take the fall for all this. With the highly-trained and loyal troops that the U.S. has in Iraq, I am pretty sure they are not doing all these inhumane things on their own. The military follows orders. The orders come from higher up the chain of command.
Those in command keep passing the blame down the chain instead of up the chain where it belongs. All these atrocities should be blamed on the Pentagon and the Bush Administration, instead of sending the average American soldier to jail.
All these images should be saved and presented in Rumsfeld's trial for war crimes.

Tattoo, shouldn't you be in a tower, watching for planes or something?

 

[Gunny]

I agree with you Gunney, however let it be noted that the DOD had started its investigation and filing of charges before Seymore Hersh ever brought the story front and center with pics. There is NO different outcome, just more American bashing.

You are correct. The left screeched that this was somehow kept a secret when the fact is, the military has never routinely published it's internal judicial doings for the vultures of the left-wing media to scavenge. Allegations were made and an investigation being conducted PRIOR TO the MSM snatching up the ball and running toward the wrong goal line with it.

 

[Gunny]

What bothers me the most is how the average military person has to take the fall for all this. With the highly-trained and loyal troops that the U.S. has in Iraq, I am pretty sure they are not doing all these inhumane things on their own. The military follows orders. The orders come from higher up the chain of command.
Those in command keep passing the blame down the chain instead of up the chain where it belongs. All these atrocities should be blamed on the Pentagon and the Bush Administration, instead of sending the average American soldier to jail.
All these images should be saved and presented in Rumsfeld's trial for war crimes.

Is this the "I hate Bush but support the troops" speech for today?

 

[hylandrdet]

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000990590

Pentagon Blocks Release of Abu Ghraib Images: Here's Why
By Greg Mitchell

Published: July 23, 2005 6:00 PM ET

NEW YORK So what is shown on the 87 photographs and four videos from Abu Ghraib prison that the Pentagon, in an eleventh hour move, blocked from release this weekend? One clue: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told Congress last year, after viewing a large cache of unreleased images: "I mean, I looked at them last night, and they're hard to believe.” They show acts "that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhumane," he added.

A Republican Senator suggested the same day they contained scenes of “rape and murder.” No wonder Rumsfeld commented then, "If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse."

Yesterday, news emerged that lawyers for the Pentagon had refused to cooperate with a federal judge's order to release dozens of unseen photographs and videos from Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq by Saturday. The photos were among thousands turned over by the key “whistleblower” in the scandal, Specialist Joseph M. Darby. Just a few that were released to the press sparked the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal last year, and the video images are said to be even more shocking.

The Pentagon lawyers said in a letter sent to the federal court in Manhattan that they would file a sealed brief explaining their reasons for not turning over the material. They had been ordered to do so by a federal judge in response to a FOIA lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU accused the government Friday of putting another legal roadblock in the way of its bid to allow the public to see the images of the prisoner abuse scandal.

One Pentagon lawyer has argued that they should not be released because they would only add to the humiliation of the prisoners. But the ACLU has said the faces of the victims can easily be "redacted."

To get a sense of what may be shown in these images, one has to go back to press reports from when the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal was still front page news.

This is how CNN reported it on May 8, 2004, in a typical account that day:

“U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld revealed Friday that videos and ‘a lot more pictures’ exist of the abuse of Iraqis held at Abu Ghraib prison.

"’If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse,’ Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee. ‘I mean, I looked at them last night, and they're hard to believe.’

“The embattled defense secretary fielded sharp and skeptical questions from lawmakers as he testified about the growing prisoner abuse scandal. A military report about that abuse describes detainees being threatened, sodomized with a chemical light and forced into sexually humiliating poses.

“Charges have been brought against seven service members, and investigations into events at the prison continue.

“Military investigators have looked into -- or are continuing to investigate -- 35 cases of alleged abuse or deaths of prisoners in detention facilities in the Central Command theater, according to Army Secretary Les Brownlee. Two of those cases were deemed homicides, he said.

"’The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience,’ Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina told reporters after Rumsfeld testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee. ’We're talking about rape and murder -- and some very serious charges.’

“A report by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba on the abuse at the prison outside Baghdad says videotapes and photographs show naked detainees, and that groups of men were forced to masturbate while being photographed and videotaped. Taguba also found evidence of a ‘male MP guard having sex with a female detainee.’

“Rumsfeld told Congress the unrevealed photos and videos contain acts 'that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman.’”

The military later screened some of the images for lawmakers, who said they showed, among other things, attack dogs snarling at cowed prisoners, Iraqi women forced to expose their breasts, and naked prisoners forced to have sex with each other.

In the same period, reporter Seymour Hersh, who helped uncover the scandal, said in a speech before an ACLU convention: “Some of the worse that happened that you don't know about, ok? Videos, there are women there. Some of you may have read they were passing letters, communications out to their men….The women were passing messages saying ‘Please come and kill me, because of what's happened.’

“Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys/children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror it's going to come out.”

Right on! the one thing that is worse than a liberal, speaking out against the war, who had never served, is a CONSERVATIVE, speaking out for the war, who had never served.

War is Hell, you start out believing that you're doing the right thing, but you'll ultimately end up, in the end, doing the unthinkable. Why?

Maybe out of frustration, maybe because you're too scared to be rational, or maybe because you're a nutcase, who just happen to be at the right place at the right time to something stupid.

The posters on this forum asked why I'm so proud to be a two time humanitarian service award winner. It's probably because you could not possibly imagine how much I wanted to torment, if not kill these bastards. But it was my christian values, my committment to my country and most important, the image I wish to portray of my country to them that kept me from doing the unthinkable.

Soldiers must realize that every move they make will be scrutinized, therefore, they must act in accordance. In my opinion, every disgracefull act we do will ultimately lead to more bloodshed, because it will inspire more violence. As far as I'm concerned, the soldiers involved are traitors and should be punished as such.

Our soldiers are the good guys... Act like it!!!

 

[Annie]

The posters on this forum asked why I'm so proud to be a two time humanitarian service award winner.

 

[Annie]

Right on! the one thing that is worse than a liberal, speaking out against the war, who had never served, is a CONSERVATIVE, speaking out for the war, who had never served.

War is Hell, you start out believing that you're doing the right thing, but you'll ultimately end up, in the end, doing the unthinkable. Why?

Maybe out of frustration, maybe because you're too scared to be rational, or maybe because you're a nutcase, who just happen to be at the right place at the right time to something stupid.

The posters on this forum asked why I'm so proud to be a two time humanitarian service award winner. It's probably because you could not possibly imagine how much I wanted to torment, if not kill these bastards. But it was my christian values, my committment to my country and most important, the image I wish to portray of my country to them that kept me from doing the unthinkable.

Soldiers must realize that every move they make will be scrutinized, therefore, they must act in accordance. In my opinion, every disgracefull act we do will ultimately lead to more bloodshed, because it will inspire more violence. As far as I'm concerned, the soldiers involved are traitors and should be punished as such.

Our soldiers are the good guys... Act like it!!!

you think they are not? Why?

 

[Gunny]

you think they are not? Why?

As I stated, the dishonest attack from the left is based on the implication that th ecriminal actions of the few represent the entire US military. In actuality, the Guardsmen who committed these crimes represent ZERO percent of the active duty/professional military force, and less than one percent of total forces.

The basic rule of thumb within the military is that 10% are screwups. The total number of criminals in this incident fall well below that.

In context, it's nothing. Crimes that were punished.

This is just an excuse for those who wish to villify Bush, his administration, and/or the US military. The MSM and Holier-than-thou bunch pulled the same crap when someone videotaped some Marines having their jump wings pinned on.

 

[hylandrdet]

you think they are not? Why?

The point of this debate is to remind you of the consequences of what happens when a bunch of idiot soldiers go out and do something stupid; it embarrasses our country and it creates more contempt for the US. Kathy, you know me enough by now to not believe that I am referring to every soldier, but if it helps, I'll do it!

On that "link" thing, I can't help you with that. My military records are sealed; you just going to have to take my word for it. If you take a moment and read between the lines of my "stories", you might get some clues as to who I'm really am.

For now, I'm just simply a construction worker

 

[Said1]

Is Abu Gharib for POWs only?

 

[Annie]

The point of this debate is to remind you of the consequences of what happens when a bunch of idiot soldiers go out and do something stupid; it embarrasses our country and it creates more contempt for the US. Kathy, you know me enough by now to not believe that I am referring to every soldier, but if it helps, I'll do it!

On that "link" thing, I can't help you with that. My military records are sealed; you just going to have to take my word for it. If you take a moment and read between the lines of my "stories", you might get some clues as to who I'm really am.

For now, I'm just simply a construction worker

I'll give you that, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the link request. You said posters had a problem with your 2X something or other...

 

[hylandrdet]

As I stated, the dishonest attack from the left is based on the implication that th ecriminal actions of the few represent the entire US military. In actuality, the Guardsmen who committed these crimes represent ZERO percent of the active duty/professional military force, and less than one percent of total forces.

The basic rule of thumb within the military is that 10% are screwups. The total number of criminals in this incident fall well below that.

In context, it's nothing. Crimes that were punished.

This is just an excuse for those who wish to villify Bush, his administration, and/or the US military. The MSM and Holier-than-thou bunch pulled the same crap when someone videotaped some Marines having their jump wings pinned on.

Dude, it's not the left we're worrying about; it's the extremist muslim community; you know, the ones who post these pictures on their walls at their recruiting stations!

Classic case of creating your own enemy. Niccolo Machiavelli once said, "It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both." But what was added to that quote was the concept that you would rather be feared or loved, but dare not be hated.

 

[Annie]

But what was added to that quote was the concept that you would rather be feared or loved, but dare not be hated.

You get this where?

 

[Gunny]

Is Abu Gharib for POWs only?

Abu Ghraib is an existing prison. There are civil as well as military prisoners there.

 

[Gunny]

Dude, it's not the left we're worrying about; it's the extremist muslim community; you know, the ones who post these pictures on their walls at their recruiting stations!

Classic case of creating your own enemy. Niccolo Machiavelli once said, "It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both." But what was added to that quote was the concept that you would rather be feared or loved, but dare not be hated.

I don't buy off on that, and it IS a theory pushed by the left. If doing what we need to do somehow creates a few more terrorists then we need to buy a few more rounds.

I'll be damned if I'll be hamstrung in fear of a bunch of what if's.