Why the hate?

[Photonic]

Based on the posts here, and observed behavior, I can't agree with that. I think there are an equal number of evangeliclal atheists on this forum as there are evangelical religious types. And most of them are nasty about it. In the real world I never see religious types seeking out confrontation. It happens I am positive but not in this area. Atheists though, worlwide do so.

Well check that, I never see that type of activity in Muslim countries. Ever.

I have only known a handful of religious people that do not become confrontational when they find out someone does not believe in god. Well, a handful of non-Jewish religious people I should say because most of my religious friends are Jewish and only when drinking do they want to debate, and it is real intellectual debate, not confrontation.

I have religious people all around me (I am an agnostic) and they never annoy me. I have one atheist who lives 3 miles away and when he see's me he will quite quickly launch into a "how can you tolerate all those religious nutballs around you" diatribe.

I don't see religious people filing lawsuits all time like I see with atheists out here. I will grant you there are many geographical differences but over all I would rather live next to a fellow agnostic then an atheist.

Another falsehood. You can have an atheist agnostic.

You are clearly a theistic agnost.

 

[westwall]

Because they KILL atheists. Just like the Church has done for thousands of years.

The Catholic Church stopped murdering atheists at least two centuries ago. There are loons (of all persuasions) who will cloak their murderous acts in the mantle of whatever religion they choose, but the religions are not to blame, the people are. And atheists have murdered far more people in 100 years then the Catholic Church did in 2,000.

It helps that there are a hell of a lot more people now then there was way back in history, but that is no excuse for the fact that atheists have murdered well over 100 million in less then a century.

That's a bullshit lie that has been spread by the religious to continue their persecution against atheists.

Stalinism and Nazism were just as much a religion as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc.

It's called the False Cause Fallacy, you have to back up your claim that atheism caused their actions. Especially considering both Stalin and Hitler were both known theists.

Stalinism and Fascism are not a religion. They are a political system. Lenin wrote the following in 1909...

“Marx said, ‘Religion is the opium of the people’ – and this postulate is the corner stone of the whole philosophy of Marxism with regard to religion. Marxism always regarded all modern religions and churches, and every kind of religious organisation as instruments of that bourgeois reaction whose aim is to defend exploitation, stupefying the working class.” (The Attitude of the Workers’ Party towards religion, May, 1909)

He further stated....

“And when this act (the proletarian revolution) has been accomplished, when society, by taking possession of all means of production and using them on a planned basis, has freed itself and all its members from the bondage in which they are at present held by these means of production which they themselves have produced but which now confront them as an irresistible extraneous force; when then man no longer merely proposes, but also disposes – only then will the last extraneous force which is still reflected in religion vanish; and with it will also vanish the religious reflection itself, for the simple reason that then there will be nothing left to reflect.”

Hitler was a novice when it comes to wholesale murder. Stalin killed at minimum 50 million and probably closer to 80 million in his purges.


Mao is the other great killer at an estimated 150 million during the culteral revolution and a anti theist as well. Read any of his works and religion is a pestilence to be exerminated.

These were countries murdering their citizens on a mass scale, not religions.

 

[Photonic]

The Catholic Church stopped murdering atheists at least two centuries ago. There are loons (of all persuasions) who will cloak their murderous acts in the mantle of whatever religion they choose, but the religions are not to blame, the people are. And atheists have murdered far more people in 100 years then the Catholic Church did in 2,000.

It helps that there are a hell of a lot more people now then there was way back in history, but that is no excuse for the fact that atheists have murdered well over 100 million in less then a century.

That's a bullshit lie that has been spread by the religious to continue their persecution against atheists.

Stalinism and Nazism were just as much a religion as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc.

It's called the False Cause Fallacy, you have to back up your claim that atheism caused their actions. Especially considering both Stalin and Hitler were both known theists.

Stalinism and Fascism are not a religion. They are a political system. Lenin wrote the following in 1909...

“Marx said, ‘Religion is the opium of the people’ – and this postulate is the corner stone of the whole philosophy of Marxism with regard to religion. Marxism always regarded all modern religions and churches, and every kind of religious organisation as instruments of that bourgeois reaction whose aim is to defend exploitation, stupefying the working class.” (The Attitude of the Workers’ Party towards religion, May, 1909)

He further stated....

“And when this act (the proletarian revolution) has been accomplished, when society, by taking possession of all means of production and using them on a planned basis, has freed itself and all its members from the bondage in which they are at present held by these means of production which they themselves have produced but which now confront them as an irresistible extraneous force; when then man no longer merely proposes, but also disposes – only then will the last extraneous force which is still reflected in religion vanish; and with it will also vanish the religious reflection itself, for the simple reason that then there will be nothing left to reflect.”

Hitler was a novice when it comes to wholesale murder. Stalin killed at minimum 50 million and probably closer to 80 million in his purges.


Mao is the other great killer at an estimated 150 million during the culteral revolution and a anti theist as well. Read any of his works and religion is a pestilence to be exerminated.

These were countries murdering their citizens on a mass scale, not religions.

Fallacy of false cause or non sequitur: incorrectly assumes one thing is the cause of another. Non Sequitur is Latin for "It does not follow."

Hitler also gained the backing of the people by claiming he was doing the work of God by ridding their Christian state of Jews. (See Mein Kampf)

 

[westwall]

I have only known a handful of religious people that do not become confrontational when they find out someone does not believe in god. Well, a handful of non-Jewish religious people I should say because most of my religious friends are Jewish and only when drinking do they want to debate, and it is real intellectual debate, not confrontation.

I have religious people all around me (I am an agnostic) and they never annoy me. I have one atheist who lives 3 miles away and when he see's me he will quite quickly launch into a "how can you tolerate all those religious nutballs around you" diatribe.

I don't see religious people filing lawsuits all time like I see with atheists out here. I will grant you there are many geographical differences but over all I would rather live next to a fellow agnostic then an atheist.

Another falsehood. You can have an atheist agnostic.

You are clearly a theistic agnost.

No, I'm a clear agnostic. There is no evidence for a God nor is there evidence for no God.
I get along fine with all people so long as they keep their views to themselves. I treat everyone with respect...I demand they do likewise to me. Accosting me in the street to tell me your opinion is not respecting me.

 

[westwall]

That's a bullshit lie that has been spread by the religious to continue their persecution against atheists.

Stalinism and Nazism were just as much a religion as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc.

It's called the False Cause Fallacy, you have to back up your claim that atheism caused their actions. Especially considering both Stalin and Hitler were both known theists.

Stalinism and Fascism are not a religion. They are a political system. Lenin wrote the following in 1909...

“Marx said, ‘Religion is the opium of the people’ – and this postulate is the corner stone of the whole philosophy of Marxism with regard to religion. Marxism always regarded all modern religions and churches, and every kind of religious organisation as instruments of that bourgeois reaction whose aim is to defend exploitation, stupefying the working class.” (The Attitude of the Workers’ Party towards religion, May, 1909)

He further stated....

“And when this act (the proletarian revolution) has been accomplished, when society, by taking possession of all means of production and using them on a planned basis, has freed itself and all its members from the bondage in which they are at present held by these means of production which they themselves have produced but which now confront them as an irresistible extraneous force; when then man no longer merely proposes, but also disposes – only then will the last extraneous force which is still reflected in religion vanish; and with it will also vanish the religious reflection itself, for the simple reason that then there will be nothing left to reflect.”

Hitler was a novice when it comes to wholesale murder. Stalin killed at minimum 50 million and probably closer to 80 million in his purges.


Mao is the other great killer at an estimated 150 million during the culteral revolution and a anti theist as well. Read any of his works and religion is a pestilence to be exerminated.

These were countries murdering their citizens on a mass scale, not religions.

Fallacy of false cause or non sequitur: incorrectly assumes one thing is the cause of another. Non Sequitur is Latin for "It does not follow."

Hitler also gained the backing of the people by claiming he was doing the work of God by ridding their Christian state of Jews. (See Mein Kampf)

Hitler used religion as a tool. He himself was an atheist and had plans to kill all the Roman Catholics in Germany when the time was right. He however realised that he needed the religious Germans to get into power in the first place. He used them and when he was done with them he was going to kill them....just like he did with the homosexuals who were useful tools until they were no longer useful so he had them killed during the Night of the Long Knives.

Statements of FACT are never non sequiters so long as they pertain to the original discussion. Hitler, Lenin-Stalin and Mao were atheists. Provably so. They were the leaders of their countries and they murdered millions more then religions ever did. That too is a fact. Am I saying that atheism is bad? No, I am not. I am saying that leaders who were atheists were worse then the evil religious people in the past. Who probably used the religion of the time to perpetrate their murderous behavior as well.

Do you see the connection? It is not the religion, it is not the atheism...it is the PEOPLE involved who are to blame.

 

[Photonic]

I have religious people all around me (I am an agnostic) and they never annoy me. I have one atheist who lives 3 miles away and when he see's me he will quite quickly launch into a "how can you tolerate all those religious nutballs around you" diatribe.

I don't see religious people filing lawsuits all time like I see with atheists out here. I will grant you there are many geographical differences but over all I would rather live next to a fellow agnostic then an atheist.

Another falsehood. You can have an atheist agnostic.

You are clearly a theistic agnost.

No, I'm a clear agnostic. There is no evidence for a God nor is there evidence for no God.
I get along fine with all people so long as they keep their views to themselves. I treat everyone with respect...I demand they do likewise to me. Accosting me in the street to tell me your opinion is not respecting me.

And I agree with that.

 

[Photonic]

Do you see the connection? It is not the religion, it is not the atheism...it is the PEOPLE involved who are to blame.

I only recall me blaming the people, not the religion. I completely agree there is no correlation.

 

[dblack]

No, I'm a clear agnostic. There is no evidence for a God nor is there evidence for no God.

All you need to be an atheist is the first part (no evidence for gods). A lot of people misconstrue the distinction between atheism and agnosticism. An atheist is someone who has no belief in a god. An agnostic holds that the existence, or non-existence, of gods can never proven one way or another. The two views aren't on a continuum, they're concerned with different issues. You can be an atheist and an agnostic. You can also be agnostic and a true believer.

Unfortunately, popular usage equates 'agnostic' with a sort of soft atheism - ie non-believers without in interested in spoiling the party for others. And 'atheist' is usually taken to mean a belligerent asshole intent on convincing believers of their folly.

 

[westwall]

Do you see the connection? It is not the religion, it is not the atheism...it is the PEOPLE involved who are to blame.

I only recall me blaming the people, not the religion. I completely agree there is no correlation.

This is the quote I am referring to..

"If there is an atheist here that hates religion, there is almost a 100% chance they are absolutely justified.

Trust me, whatever hate you experience from an atheist here, they get it a thousand fold in real life."

I just took it to its logical conclusion. It has been hundreds of years since atheists were persecuted in the west. Now the persecution is going the other way through lawsuits and other activities to include arson, vandalism, and in very rare instances physical violence.

These are simple facts. And it is unacceptable no matter who is doing it.

 

[Photonic]

Do you see the connection? It is not the religion, it is not the atheism...it is the PEOPLE involved who are to blame.

I only recall me blaming the people, not the religion. I completely agree there is no correlation.

This is the quote I am referring to..

"If there is an atheist here that hates religion, there is almost a 100% chance they are absolutely justified.

Trust me, whatever hate you experience from an atheist here, they get it a thousand fold in real life."

I just took it to its logical conclusion. It has been hundreds of years since atheists were persecuted in the west. Now the persecution is going the other way through lawsuits and other activities to include arson, vandalism, and in very rare instances physical violence.

These are simple facts.

That is not a fact. That is a view that since Christians can no longer go around hitting people over the head with the Bible, they are being persecuted.

I'm not sure how you got that out of my quote.

 

[westwall]

No, I'm a clear agnostic. There is no evidence for a God nor is there evidence for no God.

All you need to be an atheist is the first part (no evidence for gods). A lot of people misconstrue the distinction between atheism and agnosticism. An atheist is someone who has no belief in a god. An agnostic holds that the existence, or non-existence, of gods can never proven one way or another. The two views aren't on a continuum, they're concerned with different issues. You can be an atheist and an agnostic. You can also be agnostic and a true believer.

Unfortunately, popular usage equates 'agnostic' with a sort of soft atheism - ie non-believers without in interested in spoiling the party for others. And 'atheist' is usually taken to mean a belligerent asshole intent on convincing believers of their folly.

Agnostics don't believe that evidence for the proof of or disproof of a God can never be found. We just realise that neither case has been proven. I'm a scientist and most scientists I know are not religious, they aren't atheists either, they just acknowledge that there is no proof either way. It doesn't MATTER to us. We really don't care.

We do care about people harming others and using a belief system (of any sort) to vindicate their crimes.

 

[westwall]

I only recall me blaming the people, not the religion. I completely agree there is no correlation.

This is the quote I am referring to..

"If there is an atheist here that hates religion, there is almost a 100% chance they are absolutely justified.

Trust me, whatever hate you experience from an atheist here, they get it a thousand fold in real life."

I just took it to its logical conclusion. It has been hundreds of years since atheists were persecuted in the west. Now the persecution is going the other way through lawsuits and other activities to include arson, vandalism, and in very rare instances physical violence.

These are simple facts.

That is not a fact. That is a view that since Christians can no longer go around hitting people over the head with the Bible, they are being persecuted.

I'm not sure how you got that out of my quote.

The facts are that not for two hundred years have atheists been persecuted. That makes your statement false.

 

[dblack]

Agnostics don't believe that evidence for the proof of or disproof of a God can never be found. We just realise that neither case has been proven. I'm a scientist and most scientists I know are not religious, they aren't atheists either, they just acknowledge that there is no proof either way. It doesn't MATTER to us. We really don't care.

We do care about people harming others and using a belief system (of any sort) to vindicate their crimes.

I hear ya. And I guess there's no denying that "Don't know" or perhaps "Don't care" is the popular conception of 'agnostic'. But the actually meaning of the word is more specific than that and is closer to "Can't know". Which is an important, if subtle, distinction.

In any case, it seems that most people think of agnostics as non-believers who don't have an agenda, and atheists as militant jerks who want to spoil things for believers.

 

[Photonic]

This is the quote I am referring to..

"If there is an atheist here that hates religion, there is almost a 100% chance they are absolutely justified.

Trust me, whatever hate you experience from an atheist here, they get it a thousand fold in real life."

I just took it to its logical conclusion. It has been hundreds of years since atheists were persecuted in the west. Now the persecution is going the other way through lawsuits and other activities to include arson, vandalism, and in very rare instances physical violence.

These are simple facts.

That is not a fact. That is a view that since Christians can no longer go around hitting people over the head with the Bible, they are being persecuted.

I'm not sure how you got that out of my quote.

The facts are that not for two hundred years have atheists been persecuted. That makes your statement false.

Not killing someone is not the same as not persecuting someone. Learn the difference.

Last we talked you were an engineer, now you are a scientist? Make up your mind.

Also the position known as atheistic agnosticism is something usually called "weak atheism."

Strong atheism is the claim that there is a 100% probability that there is no God, a claim I have almost never heard from anyone.

I am what is known as a weak atheistic scientific pantheist. You can ponder that out.

 

[Cammmpbell]

The Catholic Church stopped murdering atheists at least two centuries ago. There are loons (of all persuasions) who will cloak their murderous acts in the mantle of whatever religion they choose, but the religions are not to blame, the people are. And atheists have murdered far more people in 100 years then the Catholic Church did in 2,000.

It helps that there are a hell of a lot more people now then there was way back in history, but that is no excuse for the fact that atheists have murdered well over 100 million in less then a century.

That's a bullshit lie that has been spread by the religious to continue their persecution against atheists.

Stalinism and Nazism were just as much a religion as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc.

It's called the False Cause Fallacy, you have to back up your claim that atheism caused their actions. Especially considering both Stalin and Hitler were both known theists.

Stalinism and Fascism are not a religion. They are a political system. Lenin wrote the following in 1909...

“Marx said, ‘Religion is the opium of the people’ – and this postulate is the corner stone of the whole philosophy of Marxism with regard to religion. Marxism always regarded all modern religions and churches, and every kind of religious organisation as instruments of that bourgeois reaction whose aim is to defend exploitation, stupefying the working class.” (The Attitude of the Workers’ Party towards religion, May, 1909)

He further stated....

“And when this act (the proletarian revolution) has been accomplished, when society, by taking possession of all means of production and using them on a planned basis, has freed itself and all its members from the bondage in which they are at present held by these means of production which they themselves have produced but which now confront them as an irresistible extraneous force; when then man no longer merely proposes, but also disposes – only then will the last extraneous force which is still reflected in religion vanish; and with it will also vanish the religious reflection itself, for the simple reason that then there will be nothing left to reflect.”

Hitler was a novice when it comes to wholesale murder. Stalin killed at minimum 50 million and probably closer to 80 million in his purges.


Mao is the other great killer at an estimated 150 million during the culteral revolution and a anti theist as well. Read any of his works and religion is a pestilence to be exerminated.

These were countries murdering their citizens on a mass scale, not religions.

I sure as hell like to see your references on that. So far it's just another Ann Coulter or Bill O'Reilly like assertion.

One thing we know for sure...."Thou Shalt Not Kill" only pertains to unborn fetuses. The Religious Right can't wait to put the unwanted children to death after they grow up and phuck up.

 

[HUGGY]

This thread sure sucks for one that's spozd to be bout hate. I believe we have the weakest haters on the internets here at USMB...

Just sayin...

 

[California Girl]

That's a bullshit lie that has been spread by the religious to continue their persecution against atheists.

Stalinism and Nazism were just as much a religion as Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc.

It's called the False Cause Fallacy, you have to back up your claim that atheism caused their actions. Especially considering both Stalin and Hitler were both known theists.

Stalinism and Fascism are not a religion. They are a political system. Lenin wrote the following in 1909...

“Marx said, ‘Religion is the opium of the people’ – and this postulate is the corner stone of the whole philosophy of Marxism with regard to religion. Marxism always regarded all modern religions and churches, and every kind of religious organisation as instruments of that bourgeois reaction whose aim is to defend exploitation, stupefying the working class.” (The Attitude of the Workers’ Party towards religion, May, 1909)

He further stated....

“And when this act (the proletarian revolution) has been accomplished, when society, by taking possession of all means of production and using them on a planned basis, has freed itself and all its members from the bondage in which they are at present held by these means of production which they themselves have produced but which now confront them as an irresistible extraneous force; when then man no longer merely proposes, but also disposes – only then will the last extraneous force which is still reflected in religion vanish; and with it will also vanish the religious reflection itself, for the simple reason that then there will be nothing left to reflect.”

Hitler was a novice when it comes to wholesale murder. Stalin killed at minimum 50 million and probably closer to 80 million in his purges.


Mao is the other great killer at an estimated 150 million during the culteral revolution and a anti theist as well. Read any of his works and religion is a pestilence to be exerminated.

These were countries murdering their citizens on a mass scale, not religions.

I sure as hell like to see your references on that. So far it's just another Ann Coulter or Bill O'Reilly like assertion.

One thing we know for sure...."Thou Shalt Not Kill" only pertains to unborn fetuses. The Religious Right can't wait to put the unwanted children to death after they grow up and phuck up.

He's given you the fucking sources, moron. Go read them.

 

[westwall]

That is not a fact. That is a view that since Christians can no longer go around hitting people over the head with the Bible, they are being persecuted.

I'm not sure how you got that out of my quote.

The facts are that not for two hundred years have atheists been persecuted. That makes your statement false.

Not killing someone is not the same as not persecuting someone. Learn the difference.

Last we talked you were an engineer, now you are a scientist? Make up your mind.

Also the position known as atheistic agnosticism is something usually called "weak atheism."

Strong atheism is the claim that there is a 100% probability that there is no God, a claim I have almost never heard from anyone.

I am what is known as a weak atheistic scientific pantheist. You can ponder that out.

I have never claimed to be an engineer. You must have me confused with someone else. I am a geologist and have been for my entire professional career(40+ years) and have so stated here in this forum.

I really do know the difference between not killing and not persecuting. The French Revolution was the beginning of the massive spread of "secularism" which had been begun in a major way during the Renaissance. Religous persecution began to be curtailed in a major way with the Renaisance. It still occured but it's sadistic nature was gone for the most part.

I will certainly grant you that individuals were able to winnow there way into positions of power and wreak their terror, but the widespread persecution promulgated by the Church was gone by the 1700's.

 

[westwall]

This thread sure sucks for one that's spozd to be bout hate. I believe we have the weakest haters on the internets here at USMB...

Just sayin...

SCREW YEW BUDDY!

OK, I'm sorry!

 

[westwall]

Stalinism and Fascism are not a religion. They are a political system. Lenin wrote the following in 1909...

“Marx said, ‘Religion is the opium of the people’ – and this postulate is the corner stone of the whole philosophy of Marxism with regard to religion. Marxism always regarded all modern religions and churches, and every kind of religious organisation as instruments of that bourgeois reaction whose aim is to defend exploitation, stupefying the working class.” (The Attitude of the Workers’ Party towards religion, May, 1909)

He further stated....

“And when this act (the proletarian revolution) has been accomplished, when society, by taking possession of all means of production and using them on a planned basis, has freed itself and all its members from the bondage in which they are at present held by these means of production which they themselves have produced but which now confront them as an irresistible extraneous force; when then man no longer merely proposes, but also disposes – only then will the last extraneous force which is still reflected in religion vanish; and with it will also vanish the religious reflection itself, for the simple reason that then there will be nothing left to reflect.”

Hitler was a novice when it comes to wholesale murder. Stalin killed at minimum 50 million and probably closer to 80 million in his purges.


Mao is the other great killer at an estimated 150 million during the culteral revolution and a anti theist as well. Read any of his works and religion is a pestilence to be exerminated.

These were countries murdering their citizens on a mass scale, not religions.

I sure as hell like to see your references on that. So far it's just another Ann Coulter or Bill O'Reilly like assertion.

One thing we know for sure...."Thou Shalt Not Kill" only pertains to unborn fetuses. The Religious Right can't wait to put the unwanted children to death after they grow up and phuck up.

He's given you the fucking sources, moron. Go read them.

He can't read, he's a parrot.