Why teachers need more pay

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Can you make chicken salad out of chicken shit?

If not, stop expecting teachers to do just that, and stop sending students that are nothing more than chicken shit!

Can you read? If you can't, then stop posting. If you can, then you should know your dumb as crap post, doesn't fit with what I said. Listen to what your parents should have taught you, and listen twice as much as you speak. Two ears, one mouth... for a reason..... Shut up, and grow up. Start acting like an adult, and think before you type idiot.

You are just pissed because you have been found guilty of talking smack!

No, I get tired of dealing with fools who don't even read. I enjoy an adult conversations. However that involves talking to other adults, not blithering morons who don't even read what was written, and respond without thinking, and come across as a jerk that likes the sounds of his own voice.

I read, and you just have your preconceived notions that are wrong or outdated by 30 years.


You keep confusing alternative schools with charter schools. Why is that? The statement was about alternative schools and you countered with private and charter schools.

Look at this:

"
5. I don't know a single teacher (and I literally know 50-60, and know hundreds in passing) that is against alternative schools

You say that, and yet I read about teachers being against charter and private schools, routinely."

You also keep talking about teacher strikes after you have been shown repeatedly that teacher strikes are illegal almost everywhere. Are you stupid or can you not read?

Most teachers do not like charter schools for one reason and one reason only. They are exempt from all of the rules that make teaching harder in public schools.

I have shown you repeatedly that the reason students struggle in school is they are poor.

Poor students make for poor students.

When Florida was testing all students and I worked there, in graduate school, I created a chart showing the school grades compared to the socioeconomic status of the average student in the district. It was an almost one for match for every school in the district, which was over 100 schools. Schools graded "A" had higher incomes and "F" schools were the inner city schools with kids on welfare. Are you shocked by that revelation? Teachers have known it for years.

The answers to your questions are in these posts, but you are simply an asshole who refuses to accept the truth.

Now, find someone who teaches that honestly disagrees with the points I have made.

Poor students make for poor students.

Nah, bull crap. I don't buy it.

I think people that make that claim are simply looking at numbers, and not cultural values.

A poor kid that has a big work ethic, and a drive to succeed, can do just as well as a rich kid.

The bottom line is not their families income bracket. The bottom line is the work ethic their respective families instill in them.

I've seen poor kids that greatly outperformed myself, and I've seen rich kids that were lazy as snot.

Now typically, a family that is wealthy, is wealthy because they work hard. That hard work ethic is often passed on to the kids. But there is nothing that makes a poor person impossible to teach.

And even then......... That doesn't change the reality that there is a problem.

I said in the prior post.....

During my Junior year, I was unfortunate enough to go to an inner city school for half a day. It was a huge mistake. I was sitting next to a guy who was in my grade, who asked me how to do a simple long division problem. Something along the lines of 3 divide by 7. I looked at him like he was insane. Pulled out a pen and paper, and he stopped me "No, I mean on this calculator", and slid it over to me.

And if that kid was simply refusing to learn, he should have never been accepted into high school, and certainly no teachers should have allowed him to graduate from 10th grade. Somewhere, a teacher is at fault for him reaching the 11th grade without basic 7th grade math skills.
​

A several teachers over several years, had to passed that kid. How did someone without 7th grade math, get into 11th grade? Because teachers did a lousy job, and passed a guy who was uneducated.

California: Straight-A high school student not ready for college

How are straight A students ending up in remedial classes in college? Because the teaching system is broken, and needs replaced. Bad teachers, bad policies, bad school system... I don't care what your excuses are... it should be impossible for a kid with straight As, to end up in remedial classes in college.

Your system.... SUCKS. That's a fact. So stop giving me your excuses. Endless excuses for this failing system.

You also keep talking about teacher strikes after you have been shown repeatedly that teacher strikes are illegal almost everywhere.

Denver: Teachers will start strike Monday, after negotiations end - CNN

Fail much?

Most teachers do not like charter schools for one reason and one reason only. They are exempt from all of the rules that make teaching harder in public schools.

Which is more important: Having students get a better education? Or being envious that others schools don't have the rules that hinder your school?

If what you said was true, then should not teachers be pushing to reduce the rules on public schools to match charter schools, so that all the students have a better education? If your system is worse than another system, should you push that the other system be more like yours? Or should you push for your system to be more like theirs?

If you are telling me the only reason teachers are against charter schools, is not because of the quality of education, but because of envy that charter schools have more freedom to provide better education.... than that makes teachers terrible self-centered trash that don't care about their students.

You keep confusing alternative schools with charter schools. Why is that? The statement was about alternative schools and you countered with private and charter schools.

I don't see a difference. Anything that gives students more options to escape a failing system, is good. Teachers should be open and accepting of ANY option that allows students to get a better education.

Saying you'll only allow or support, one specific type of school that you approve of, is exactly how we ended up with the problems we have. Where we are right now in education as a society, is due to this "you can only get an education we approve of you getting" ideology. We need to end that attitude.

I want people to have the freedom to choose whatever education they want, the only limitations being to meet the bare minimum reading, writing, and arithmetic. Parents will naturally gravitate to the best education they can get, on their own, without some self-appointed arrogant overseers passing edicts on what is good.

Poor students make poor students. You better buy it because it is true and there are reams of data that support that. Of course there will be exceptions. Most poor students are chickenshit.

You bitch about me saying I cannot read and yet you provide a link that proves ONE district strikes. That doesn't dispute what I said one bit. Teacher strikes are illegal in almost every school district in the country. I have never worked in a district where it was legal because the federal government and both states forbid it. Now, push the "I believe" button and stop being stupid.

You say you don't see the difference in alternative schools, charter schools and private schools. That is just further proof that you refuse to learn. You were probably a chickenshit student because like in your example, you refuse to learn.

Your ignorance is 100% willful.

 

[mgh80]

Can you make chicken salad out of chicken shit?

If not, stop expecting teachers to do just that, and stop sending students that are nothing more than chicken shit!

Can you read? If you can't, then stop posting. If you can, then you should know your dumb as crap post, doesn't fit with what I said. Listen to what your parents should have taught you, and listen twice as much as you speak. Two ears, one mouth... for a reason..... Shut up, and grow up. Start acting like an adult, and think before you type idiot.

You are just pissed because you have been found guilty of talking smack!

No, I get tired of dealing with fools who don't even read. I enjoy an adult conversations. However that involves talking to other adults, not blithering morons who don't even read what was written, and respond without thinking, and come across as a jerk that likes the sounds of his own voice.

I read, and you just have your preconceived notions that are wrong or outdated by 30 years.


You keep confusing alternative schools with charter schools. Why is that? The statement was about alternative schools and you countered with private and charter schools.

Look at this:

"
5. I don't know a single teacher (and I literally know 50-60, and know hundreds in passing) that is against alternative schools

You say that, and yet I read about teachers being against charter and private schools, routinely."

You also keep talking about teacher strikes after you have been shown repeatedly that teacher strikes are illegal almost everywhere. Are you stupid or can you not read?

Most teachers do not like charter schools for one reason and one reason only. They are exempt from all of the rules that make teaching harder in public schools.

I have shown you repeatedly that the reason students struggle in school is they are poor.

Poor students make for poor students.

When Florida was testing all students and I worked there, in graduate school, I created a chart showing the school grades compared to the socioeconomic status of the average student in the district. It was an almost one for match for every school in the district, which was over 100 schools. Schools graded "A" had higher incomes and "F" schools were the inner city schools with kids on welfare. Are you shocked by that revelation? Teachers have known it for years.

The answers to your questions are in these posts, but you are simply an asshole who refuses to accept the truth.

Now, find someone who teaches that honestly disagrees with the points I have made.

Poor students make for poor students.

Nah, bull crap. I don't buy it.

I think people that make that claim are simply looking at numbers, and not cultural values.

A poor kid that has a big work ethic, and a drive to succeed, can do just as well as a rich kid.

The bottom line is not their families income bracket. The bottom line is the work ethic their respective families instill in them.

I've seen poor kids that greatly outperformed myself, and I've seen rich kids that were lazy as snot.

Now typically, a family that is wealthy, is wealthy because they work hard. That hard work ethic is often passed on to the kids. But there is nothing that makes a poor person impossible to teach.

And even then......... That doesn't change the reality that there is a problem.

I said in the prior post.....

During my Junior year, I was unfortunate enough to go to an inner city school for half a day. It was a huge mistake. I was sitting next to a guy who was in my grade, who asked me how to do a simple long division problem. Something along the lines of 3 divide by 7. I looked at him like he was insane. Pulled out a pen and paper, and he stopped me "No, I mean on this calculator", and slid it over to me.

And if that kid was simply refusing to learn, he should have never been accepted into high school, and certainly no teachers should have allowed him to graduate from 10th grade. Somewhere, a teacher is at fault for him reaching the 11th grade without basic 7th grade math skills.
​

A several teachers over several years, had to passed that kid. How did someone without 7th grade math, get into 11th grade? Because teachers did a lousy job, and passed a guy who was uneducated.

California: Straight-A high school student not ready for college

How are straight A students ending up in remedial classes in college? Because the teaching system is broken, and needs replaced. Bad teachers, bad policies, bad school system... I don't care what your excuses are... it should be impossible for a kid with straight As, to end up in remedial classes in college.

Your system.... SUCKS. That's a fact. So stop giving me your excuses. Endless excuses for this failing system.

You also keep talking about teacher strikes after you have been shown repeatedly that teacher strikes are illegal almost everywhere.

Denver: Teachers will start strike Monday, after negotiations end - CNN

Fail much?

Most teachers do not like charter schools for one reason and one reason only. They are exempt from all of the rules that make teaching harder in public schools.

Which is more important: Having students get a better education? Or being envious that others schools don't have the rules that hinder your school?

If what you said was true, then should not teachers be pushing to reduce the rules on public schools to match charter schools, so that all the students have a better education? If your system is worse than another system, should you push that the other system be more like yours? Or should you push for your system to be more like theirs?

If you are telling me the only reason teachers are against charter schools, is not because of the quality of education, but because of envy that charter schools have more freedom to provide better education.... than that makes teachers terrible self-centered trash that don't care about their students.

You keep confusing alternative schools with charter schools. Why is that? The statement was about alternative schools and you countered with private and charter schools.

I don't see a difference. Anything that gives students more options to escape a failing system, is good. Teachers should be open and accepting of ANY option that allows students to get a better education.

Saying you'll only allow or support, one specific type of school that you approve of, is exactly how we ended up with the problems we have. Where we are right now in education as a society, is due to this "you can only get an education we approve of you getting" ideology. We need to end that attitude.

I want people to have the freedom to choose whatever education they want, the only limitations being to meet the bare minimum reading, writing, and arithmetic. Parents will naturally gravitate to the best education they can get, on their own, without some self-appointed arrogant overseers passing edicts on what is good.

Who is more likely to get better instruction playing basketball...a child of a parent who's never played ball before, or Michael Jordan's kid? The answer is obvious.

Poor kids don't lack talent or the drive (in many cases), but they do typically lack parents at home who're educated. I'll share a story...my first year teacher I had the rosy glasses on, like much of your post. I had a student who claimed to be trying hard at school but couldn't succeed. I asked him what his biggest challenge was...well his goal was to be the first person in his family to graduate from high school. He told me his parents/family couldn't help him at home because they couldn't graduate...how could they help him? It was at that precise moment I realized exactly why poor students tend to do worse than their peers of higher socio-economic statuses.

I'm not a fan of charter schools and wouldn't send my kid to one...but I'm ok with them being an option. The charters schools near me are very hit or miss (most of them miss). I routinely have students form charter schools come to class and they're well behind their peers. Sometimes a few are ahead of the curve. The same can be said about formerly home schooled kids,...some of them do very well on tests, assessments, etc. most of them do about the same as their peers. Almost all of them suffer at group work and lack basic social skills (which in all fairness nowadays their peers lack many of them as well).

I don't care what your parents' experience. If you can provide your own to progress the conversation that's great, and is obviously the reason why I have been doing so. You don't have ethos when it comes to the topic at hand-which is fine-but don't like you do.

Honestly you don't know the difference between a curriculum and a set of standards, you don't know the difference between alternative and charter schools, you don't know about teacher strikes, you don't know about how the standards and curriculum are put into place, you don't know how students are disciplined, you don't even know the fundamental role of a teacher in the classroom (other than teaching the class). With all due respect...you just don't have a solid foundation of knowledge when it comes to the education system to hold a decent conversation. You just resort to adhominems and rely on the opinions of others, while providing zero evidence.

But wait your parents were "teachers" for years and you hear what people who've never been a classroom since they were 18 talk about education on the TV!

Here's a simple question I know you wont give a direction answer to:

You have two students. Student A has to work the overnight shift at McDonald's to help their parent pay the rent. Student B doesn't have to have a job in high school.

Which student has more time available for studies, Student A or Student B?

Honestly if somebody doesn't know the difference between a charter school and an alternative school they have no business discussing education as a whole. It's like discussing football with somebody who doesn't know the difference between offense and defense.

 

[mgh80]

Can you make chicken salad out of chicken shit?

If not, stop expecting teachers to do just that, and stop sending students that are nothing more than chicken shit!

Can you read? If you can't, then stop posting. If you can, then you should know your dumb as crap post, doesn't fit with what I said. Listen to what your parents should have taught you, and listen twice as much as you speak. Two ears, one mouth... for a reason..... Shut up, and grow up. Start acting like an adult, and think before you type idiot.

You are just pissed because you have been found guilty of talking smack!

No, I get tired of dealing with fools who don't even read. I enjoy an adult conversations. However that involves talking to other adults, not blithering morons who don't even read what was written, and respond without thinking, and come across as a jerk that likes the sounds of his own voice.

I read, and you just have your preconceived notions that are wrong or outdated by 30 years.


You keep confusing alternative schools with charter schools. Why is that? The statement was about alternative schools and you countered with private and charter schools.

Look at this:

"
5. I don't know a single teacher (and I literally know 50-60, and know hundreds in passing) that is against alternative schools

You say that, and yet I read about teachers being against charter and private schools, routinely."

You also keep talking about teacher strikes after you have been shown repeatedly that teacher strikes are illegal almost everywhere. Are you stupid or can you not read?

Most teachers do not like charter schools for one reason and one reason only. They are exempt from all of the rules that make teaching harder in public schools.

I have shown you repeatedly that the reason students struggle in school is they are poor.

Poor students make for poor students.

When Florida was testing all students and I worked there, in graduate school, I created a chart showing the school grades compared to the socioeconomic status of the average student in the district. It was an almost one for match for every school in the district, which was over 100 schools. Schools graded "A" had higher incomes and "F" schools were the inner city schools with kids on welfare. Are you shocked by that revelation? Teachers have known it for years.

The answers to your questions are in these posts, but you are simply an asshole who refuses to accept the truth.

Now, find someone who teaches that honestly disagrees with the points I have made.

Poor students make for poor students.

Nah, bull crap. I don't buy it.

I think people that make that claim are simply looking at numbers, and not cultural values.

A poor kid that has a big work ethic, and a drive to succeed, can do just as well as a rich kid.

The bottom line is not their families income bracket. The bottom line is the work ethic their respective families instill in them.

I've seen poor kids that greatly outperformed myself, and I've seen rich kids that were lazy as snot.

Now typically, a family that is wealthy, is wealthy because they work hard. That hard work ethic is often passed on to the kids. But there is nothing that makes a poor person impossible to teach.

And even then......... That doesn't change the reality that there is a problem.

I said in the prior post.....

During my Junior year, I was unfortunate enough to go to an inner city school for half a day. It was a huge mistake. I was sitting next to a guy who was in my grade, who asked me how to do a simple long division problem. Something along the lines of 3 divide by 7. I looked at him like he was insane. Pulled out a pen and paper, and he stopped me "No, I mean on this calculator", and slid it over to me.

And if that kid was simply refusing to learn, he should have never been accepted into high school, and certainly no teachers should have allowed him to graduate from 10th grade. Somewhere, a teacher is at fault for him reaching the 11th grade without basic 7th grade math skills.
​

A several teachers over several years, had to passed that kid. How did someone without 7th grade math, get into 11th grade? Because teachers did a lousy job, and passed a guy who was uneducated.

California: Straight-A high school student not ready for college

How are straight A students ending up in remedial classes in college? Because the teaching system is broken, and needs replaced. Bad teachers, bad policies, bad school system... I don't care what your excuses are... it should be impossible for a kid with straight As, to end up in remedial classes in college.

Your system.... SUCKS. That's a fact. So stop giving me your excuses. Endless excuses for this failing system.

You also keep talking about teacher strikes after you have been shown repeatedly that teacher strikes are illegal almost everywhere.

Denver: Teachers will start strike Monday, after negotiations end - CNN

Fail much?

Most teachers do not like charter schools for one reason and one reason only. They are exempt from all of the rules that make teaching harder in public schools.

Which is more important: Having students get a better education? Or being envious that others schools don't have the rules that hinder your school?

If what you said was true, then should not teachers be pushing to reduce the rules on public schools to match charter schools, so that all the students have a better education? If your system is worse than another system, should you push that the other system be more like yours? Or should you push for your system to be more like theirs?

If you are telling me the only reason teachers are against charter schools, is not because of the quality of education, but because of envy that charter schools have more freedom to provide better education.... than that makes teachers terrible self-centered trash that don't care about their students.

You keep confusing alternative schools with charter schools. Why is that? The statement was about alternative schools and you countered with private and charter schools.

I don't see a difference. Anything that gives students more options to escape a failing system, is good. Teachers should be open and accepting of ANY option that allows students to get a better education.

Saying you'll only allow or support, one specific type of school that you approve of, is exactly how we ended up with the problems we have. Where we are right now in education as a society, is due to this "you can only get an education we approve of you getting" ideology. We need to end that attitude.

I want people to have the freedom to choose whatever education they want, the only limitations being to meet the bare minimum reading, writing, and arithmetic. Parents will naturally gravitate to the best education they can get, on their own, without some self-appointed arrogant overseers passing edicts on what is good.

Charter schools (like I stated earlier) are a mixed bag. In my state schools are given a A-F rating (both traditional and charter schools. While charter schools are more likely to earn an A than a traditional school...they're also twice as likely to earn an F. Charter schools sound good-and some of them absolutely are-but they're not a magic pill or answer to the problems facing education.

At the end of the day though when you can cherry pick the students that attend your school, you can cherry pick the lower performing students out of your school.

 

[sealybobo]

That's rich! Show me a high school in the south or midwest that taught those courses 100 years ago. You don't even realize that most high schools didn't even exist!

Most conservatives have this wild dream of what used to be in terms of education, but it never really existed except in their imaginations. I have never met another adult outside of my classmates who took Latin in high school like I did. Considering my age, that shatters your meme.

Latin is an elective at many, if not most, high schools.

Another cold day off of work? ....

No, douche bag.

P.S. You don't have to teach me Greek. .....

No one asked, douche bag.

Should these teachers be fired for striking?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/denver-teachers-strike_us_5c6116cfe4b0eec79b254016

None of us get to collectively bargain or extort our bosses for a raise. They'd fire all of us and replace us if we dared even try.

Would you picket with your fellow teachers? Have you ever went on strike? Has your union ever come close?

 

[sealybobo]

Actually unkotare works in a high poverty school so he would be screwed by this
The union pushed for lower bonuses for high-poverty and high-priority schools to free up more money for overall teacher pay

The collective. Rather than pay Unkotare more for going to the poor school, they want to lower his bonus so the collective can all get a litlte raise.

For once I agree with teachers.

 

[mgh80]

Latin is an elective at many, if not most, high schools.

Another cold day off of work? ....

No, douche bag.

P.S. You don't have to teach me Greek. .....

No one asked, douche bag.

Should these teachers be fired for striking?
Denver Teachers Go On Strike For The First Time In 25 Years | HuffPost

None of us get to collectively bargain or extort our bosses for a raise. They'd fire all of us and replace us if we dared even try.

Would you picket with your fellow teachers? Have you ever went on strike? Has your union ever come close?

Actually unkotare works in a high poverty school so he would be screwed by this
The union pushed for lower bonuses for high-poverty and high-priority schools to free up more money for overall teacher pay

The collective. Rather than pay Unkotare more for going to the poor school, they want to lower his bonus so the collective can all get a litlte raise.

For once I agree with teachers.

Here's the truth many don't talk about (at least in my district: title 1 schools get more funding than non-title 1 schools. Sure the student demographic is of a lower socio-economic status and therefore has a higher poverty rate...but a few things here (all of this is based on my experience in my district, I can't speak for others)

-Teachers at title 1 schools get paid more
-Teacher still don't want to work at (many of) those schools
-Title 1 schools have more resources to teachers available and more funds pumped into the school
-Teachers aren't allowed to strike
-I wouldn't strike even if I was allowed to, that would hurt my students
-Teachers in my district didn't get the raises that were written into their contracts and protested (not during work hours). They didn't want additional raises-they wanted what was promised to them from the government

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Another cold day off of work? ....

No, douche bag.

P.S. You don't have to teach me Greek. .....

No one asked, douche bag.

Should these teachers be fired for striking?
Denver Teachers Go On Strike For The First Time In 25 Years | HuffPost

None of us get to collectively bargain or extort our bosses for a raise. They'd fire all of us and replace us if we dared even try.

Would you picket with your fellow teachers? Have you ever went on strike? Has your union ever come close?

Actually unkotare works in a high poverty school so he would be screwed by this
The union pushed for lower bonuses for high-poverty and high-priority schools to free up more money for overall teacher pay

The collective. Rather than pay Unkotare more for going to the poor school, they want to lower his bonus so the collective can all get a litlte raise.

For once I agree with teachers.

Here's the truth many don't talk about (at least in my district: title 1 schools get more funding than non-title 1 schools. Sure the student demographic is of a lower socio-economic status and therefore has a higher poverty rate...but a few things here (all of this is based on my experience in my district, I can't speak for others)

-Teachers at title 1 schools get paid more
-Teacher still don't want to work at (many of) those schools
-Title 1 schools have more resources to teachers available and more funds pumped into the school
-Teachers aren't allowed to strike
-I wouldn't strike even if I was allowed to, that would hurt my students
-Teachers in my district didn't get the raises that were written into their contracts and protested (not during work hours). They didn't want additional raises-they wanted what was promised to them from the government

Having taught at numerous Title I schools, the statement about teachers getting paid more was not true anywhere in my two states where I worked.

The major issue in my state was the state legislature and the governor trying to change the retirement rules in the middle of the game. Teachers protested, but it took the courts to rule that the state could not do what they wished and cheat the teachers out of their retirement. Had they gotten their way, about 30% of all the teachers statewide would likely have retired to maintain their benefits at the current level.

 

[sealybobo]

No, douche bag.

P.S. You don't have to teach me Greek. .....

No one asked, douche bag.

Should these teachers be fired for striking?
Denver Teachers Go On Strike For The First Time In 25 Years | HuffPost

None of us get to collectively bargain or extort our bosses for a raise. They'd fire all of us and replace us if we dared even try.

Would you picket with your fellow teachers? Have you ever went on strike? Has your union ever come close?

Actually unkotare works in a high poverty school so he would be screwed by this
The union pushed for lower bonuses for high-poverty and high-priority schools to free up more money for overall teacher pay

The collective. Rather than pay Unkotare more for going to the poor school, they want to lower his bonus so the collective can all get a litlte raise.

For once I agree with teachers.

Here's the truth many don't talk about (at least in my district: title 1 schools get more funding than non-title 1 schools. Sure the student demographic is of a lower socio-economic status and therefore has a higher poverty rate...but a few things here (all of this is based on my experience in my district, I can't speak for others)

-Teachers at title 1 schools get paid more
-Teacher still don't want to work at (many of) those schools
-Title 1 schools have more resources to teachers available and more funds pumped into the school
-Teachers aren't allowed to strike
-I wouldn't strike even if I was allowed to, that would hurt my students
-Teachers in my district didn't get the raises that were written into their contracts and protested (not during work hours). They didn't want additional raises-they wanted what was promised to them from the government

Having taught at numerous Title I schools, the statement about teachers getting paid more was not true anywhere in my two states where I worked.

The major issue in my state was the state legislature and the governor trying to change the retirement rules in the middle of the game. Teachers protested, but it took the courts to rule that the state could not do what they wished and cheat the teachers out of their retirement. Had they gotten their way, about 30% of all the teachers statewide would likely have retired to maintain their benefits at the current level.

Same thing republicans do to private unions. Have the company go bankrupt to reneg on the pension.

Well soon they’ll tell teachers sorry we just don’t have the money.

Just wait for the next crash or trumps second term

 

[initforme]

If I had been a teacher during my working years I would have picketed on Oklahoma for sure. No raise at all for how many years? Teachers eligible for food stamps. Shameful. What is wrong with those people? Require them to have a college education and then treat them like that. Pathetic.

 

[mgh80]

No, douche bag.

P.S. You don't have to teach me Greek. .....

No one asked, douche bag.

Should these teachers be fired for striking?
Denver Teachers Go On Strike For The First Time In 25 Years | HuffPost

None of us get to collectively bargain or extort our bosses for a raise. They'd fire all of us and replace us if we dared even try.

Would you picket with your fellow teachers? Have you ever went on strike? Has your union ever come close?

Actually unkotare works in a high poverty school so he would be screwed by this
The union pushed for lower bonuses for high-poverty and high-priority schools to free up more money for overall teacher pay

The collective. Rather than pay Unkotare more for going to the poor school, they want to lower his bonus so the collective can all get a litlte raise.

For once I agree with teachers.

Here's the truth many don't talk about (at least in my district: title 1 schools get more funding than non-title 1 schools. Sure the student demographic is of a lower socio-economic status and therefore has a higher poverty rate...but a few things here (all of this is based on my experience in my district, I can't speak for others)

-Teachers at title 1 schools get paid more
-Teacher still don't want to work at (many of) those schools
-Title 1 schools have more resources to teachers available and more funds pumped into the school
-Teachers aren't allowed to strike
-I wouldn't strike even if I was allowed to, that would hurt my students
-Teachers in my district didn't get the raises that were written into their contracts and protested (not during work hours). They didn't want additional raises-they wanted what was promised to them from the government

Having taught at numerous Title I schools, the statement about teachers getting paid more was not true anywhere in my two states where I worked.

The major issue in my state was the state legislature and the governor trying to change the retirement rules in the middle of the game. Teachers protested, but it took the courts to rule that the state could not do what they wished and cheat the teachers out of their retirement. Had they gotten their way, about 30% of all the teachers statewide would likely have retired to maintain their benefits at the current level.

In my district in Florida you get paid 5% higher for working in a title 1 school (that's in extreme poverty). I know because I worked at one, I can't speak of any other district. We also had more resources at the school to help teachers/students (such as a dropout prevention coach).

 

[hunarcy]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

Say what? Pay teachers "per hour per child"? The union would cram a thousand kids into a classroom. Why not deduct a percentage from teachers salaries for every kid that drops out?

Funny, it's teachers who work to keep class sizes down. Administrators try to push class sizes up to avoid having to hire more teachers.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

P.S. You don't have to teach me Greek. .....

No one asked, douche bag.

Should these teachers be fired for striking?
Denver Teachers Go On Strike For The First Time In 25 Years | HuffPost

None of us get to collectively bargain or extort our bosses for a raise. They'd fire all of us and replace us if we dared even try.

Would you picket with your fellow teachers? Have you ever went on strike? Has your union ever come close?

Actually unkotare works in a high poverty school so he would be screwed by this
The union pushed for lower bonuses for high-poverty and high-priority schools to free up more money for overall teacher pay

The collective. Rather than pay Unkotare more for going to the poor school, they want to lower his bonus so the collective can all get a litlte raise.

For once I agree with teachers.

Here's the truth many don't talk about (at least in my district: title 1 schools get more funding than non-title 1 schools. Sure the student demographic is of a lower socio-economic status and therefore has a higher poverty rate...but a few things here (all of this is based on my experience in my district, I can't speak for others)

-Teachers at title 1 schools get paid more
-Teacher still don't want to work at (many of) those schools
-Title 1 schools have more resources to teachers available and more funds pumped into the school
-Teachers aren't allowed to strike
-I wouldn't strike even if I was allowed to, that would hurt my students
-Teachers in my district didn't get the raises that were written into their contracts and protested (not during work hours). They didn't want additional raises-they wanted what was promised to them from the government

Having taught at numerous Title I schools, the statement about teachers getting paid more was not true anywhere in my two states where I worked.

The major issue in my state was the state legislature and the governor trying to change the retirement rules in the middle of the game. Teachers protested, but it took the courts to rule that the state could not do what they wished and cheat the teachers out of their retirement. Had they gotten their way, about 30% of all the teachers statewide would likely have retired to maintain their benefits at the current level.

In my district in Florida you get paid 5% higher for working in a title 1 school (that's in extreme poverty). I know because I worked at one, I can't speak of any other district. We also had more resources at the school to help teachers/students (such as a dropout prevention coach).

Just out of curiosity, which district, if you don't mind saying? I taught in Duval County for 10 years.

 

[sealybobo]

P.S. You don't have to teach me Greek. .....

No one asked, douche bag.

Should these teachers be fired for striking?
Denver Teachers Go On Strike For The First Time In 25 Years | HuffPost

None of us get to collectively bargain or extort our bosses for a raise. They'd fire all of us and replace us if we dared even try.

Would you picket with your fellow teachers? Have you ever went on strike? Has your union ever come close?

Actually unkotare works in a high poverty school so he would be screwed by this
The union pushed for lower bonuses for high-poverty and high-priority schools to free up more money for overall teacher pay

The collective. Rather than pay Unkotare more for going to the poor school, they want to lower his bonus so the collective can all get a litlte raise.

For once I agree with teachers.

Here's the truth many don't talk about (at least in my district: title 1 schools get more funding than non-title 1 schools. Sure the student demographic is of a lower socio-economic status and therefore has a higher poverty rate...but a few things here (all of this is based on my experience in my district, I can't speak for others)

-Teachers at title 1 schools get paid more
-Teacher still don't want to work at (many of) those schools
-Title 1 schools have more resources to teachers available and more funds pumped into the school
-Teachers aren't allowed to strike
-I wouldn't strike even if I was allowed to, that would hurt my students
-Teachers in my district didn't get the raises that were written into their contracts and protested (not during work hours). They didn't want additional raises-they wanted what was promised to them from the government

Having taught at numerous Title I schools, the statement about teachers getting paid more was not true anywhere in my two states where I worked.

The major issue in my state was the state legislature and the governor trying to change the retirement rules in the middle of the game. Teachers protested, but it took the courts to rule that the state could not do what they wished and cheat the teachers out of their retirement. Had they gotten their way, about 30% of all the teachers statewide would likely have retired to maintain their benefits at the current level.

In my district in Florida you get paid 5% higher for working in a title 1 school (that's in extreme poverty). I know because I worked at one, I can't speak of any other district. We also had more resources at the school to help teachers/students (such as a dropout prevention coach).

In metro Detroit the only women who will work in Detroit are black girls who grew up in Detroit. I think they make less than teachers in metro Detroit where tax payers pay more. The white schools are better funded. The poor schools are in deplorable conditions.

But if they are making $50k living in Detroit that’s good money. Houses in the hood are cheap.

I knew this beautiful black girl who worked in metro Detroit but lived in Detroit. She got her house for $35k or something cheap like that. To live in my neighborhood you need $150k

 

[sealybobo]

Okay, so I hope everyone can follow me here. I am going to write about how much teachers should be paid, but not from my own perspective. I believe teachers deserve high pay for a multitude of reasons, I just want to clarify that. But let's, for a second, assume I am the kind of person who says "Teachers jobs are easy, they get summers off, they're just glorified babysitters" and the work we all know teachers need to take home doesn't count.

Let's assume we pay teachers less than what I was paid to babysit in high school. So give them...$4/hour. Let's only pay them for the hours they are in school - let's say 6.5 hours a day. That brings their daily pay to $26.

But teachers don't only teach one student. Let's say the teacher teaches 30 students. Every parent should pay $26 a day for their child to be "babysat" and at thirty students that comes out to $780/day.

Now, 5 day school week brings that to $3,900 a week.
Or, if you want to figure in days, let's say they work 180 days a year (meaning no paid vacations) $780/day for 180 days = $140,000.

The average teacher salary tends to hover between $50,000 - $60,000. So, on the high end of that spectrum, let's figure out how much teachers make per hour per child:
$60,000/180 days = $333.33/day. $333.33 per day/30 students = $11.11 per student per day. Figure in the 6.5 hours and that's $1.71 per hour per student.



So teachers get paid more than they do on average, even in my fictional scenario, where we pay teachers less per hour per child than the average babysitter, and don't pay them for any of the additional work they need to do outside of school hours, and give them no vacation pay.

Say what? Pay teachers "per hour per child"? The union would cram a thousand kids into a classroom. Why not deduct a percentage from teachers salaries for every kid that drops out?

Funny, it's teachers who work to keep class sizes down. Administrators try to push class sizes up to avoid having to hire more teachers.

Well it is public schooling and for 3 decades we’ve been cutting taxes so people who have kids need to understand there may be 40 kids in the class.

I went to eastern Michigan university and we had 100 student classes. So what? Learn how to study so you can pass tests. That’s the secret.

But can you pass accounting, ,math, English, a foreign language, science

It should be on the kid and parents. In college teachers failed me if I wasn’t getting it. I had to pay to take accounting twice. It sucked.

There should have been another option for me. I’m a great salesperson who makes almost 6 figures. I had to get a college degree. There should be another option for salespeople. We don’t need a 4 year degree.

 

[mgh80]

No one asked, douche bag.

Should these teachers be fired for striking?
Denver Teachers Go On Strike For The First Time In 25 Years | HuffPost

None of us get to collectively bargain or extort our bosses for a raise. They'd fire all of us and replace us if we dared even try.

Would you picket with your fellow teachers? Have you ever went on strike? Has your union ever come close?

Actually unkotare works in a high poverty school so he would be screwed by this
The union pushed for lower bonuses for high-poverty and high-priority schools to free up more money for overall teacher pay

The collective. Rather than pay Unkotare more for going to the poor school, they want to lower his bonus so the collective can all get a litlte raise.

For once I agree with teachers.

Here's the truth many don't talk about (at least in my district: title 1 schools get more funding than non-title 1 schools. Sure the student demographic is of a lower socio-economic status and therefore has a higher poverty rate...but a few things here (all of this is based on my experience in my district, I can't speak for others)

-Teachers at title 1 schools get paid more
-Teacher still don't want to work at (many of) those schools
-Title 1 schools have more resources to teachers available and more funds pumped into the school
-Teachers aren't allowed to strike
-I wouldn't strike even if I was allowed to, that would hurt my students
-Teachers in my district didn't get the raises that were written into their contracts and protested (not during work hours). They didn't want additional raises-they wanted what was promised to them from the government

Having taught at numerous Title I schools, the statement about teachers getting paid more was not true anywhere in my two states where I worked.

The major issue in my state was the state legislature and the governor trying to change the retirement rules in the middle of the game. Teachers protested, but it took the courts to rule that the state could not do what they wished and cheat the teachers out of their retirement. Had they gotten their way, about 30% of all the teachers statewide would likely have retired to maintain their benefits at the current level.

In my district in Florida you get paid 5% higher for working in a title 1 school (that's in extreme poverty). I know because I worked at one, I can't speak of any other district. We also had more resources at the school to help teachers/students (such as a dropout prevention coach).

Just out of curiosity, which district, if you don't mind saying? I taught in Duval County for 10 years.

PMed

edit: attempted to PM, but it wouldn't let me.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Should these teachers be fired for striking?
Denver Teachers Go On Strike For The First Time In 25 Years | HuffPost

None of us get to collectively bargain or extort our bosses for a raise. They'd fire all of us and replace us if we dared even try.

Would you picket with your fellow teachers? Have you ever went on strike? Has your union ever come close?

Actually unkotare works in a high poverty school so he would be screwed by this
The union pushed for lower bonuses for high-poverty and high-priority schools to free up more money for overall teacher pay

The collective. Rather than pay Unkotare more for going to the poor school, they want to lower his bonus so the collective can all get a litlte raise.

For once I agree with teachers.

Here's the truth many don't talk about (at least in my district: title 1 schools get more funding than non-title 1 schools. Sure the student demographic is of a lower socio-economic status and therefore has a higher poverty rate...but a few things here (all of this is based on my experience in my district, I can't speak for others)

-Teachers at title 1 schools get paid more
-Teacher still don't want to work at (many of) those schools
-Title 1 schools have more resources to teachers available and more funds pumped into the school
-Teachers aren't allowed to strike
-I wouldn't strike even if I was allowed to, that would hurt my students
-Teachers in my district didn't get the raises that were written into their contracts and protested (not during work hours). They didn't want additional raises-they wanted what was promised to them from the government

Having taught at numerous Title I schools, the statement about teachers getting paid more was not true anywhere in my two states where I worked.

The major issue in my state was the state legislature and the governor trying to change the retirement rules in the middle of the game. Teachers protested, but it took the courts to rule that the state could not do what they wished and cheat the teachers out of their retirement. Had they gotten their way, about 30% of all the teachers statewide would likely have retired to maintain their benefits at the current level.

In my district in Florida you get paid 5% higher for working in a title 1 school (that's in extreme poverty). I know because I worked at one, I can't speak of any other district. We also had more resources at the school to help teachers/students (such as a dropout prevention coach).

Just out of curiosity, which district, if you don't mind saying? I taught in Duval County for 10 years.

PMed

edit: attempted to PM, but it wouldn't let me.

Hmmmmmm......