Why Obamacare Will Make You Poorer

Without Obamacare
Average Cost of Health Insurance Per Family: .................. $13,375
Average Family Size: ..................................................... 3.1 people
Average Per Person Cose of Health Insurance: ................. $4315

With Obamacare
Obamacare Cost: ........................................................... $871,000,000,000 to cover 31,000,000 Americans
Average Per Person (Benificiary) Cost: ............................. $28,100

I'm going to introduce you to a very important concept called time.

When someone writes "average cost of health insurance per family" there, what they really mean is "average annual cost...". That's the average cost over the span of one year.

When someone writes "$871,000,000,000 to cover 31,000,000 Americans," they're referring to a different span of time, presumably the period of 2014-2019 (the initiation of the major coverage expansions through the end of the first 10-year budget window). So when you divide $871 billion by 31 million people to get a figure of $28,100 per person that's not $28,100 per person per year, it's $28,100 per person per six years. If you wanted to look at the average annual amount of the federal subsidy, that would come out to $4,683 per person. Not that comparing the value of refundable tax credits + Medicaid funds to premiums makes sense in the first place but we can temporarily overlook that, I suppose.

Time. Very important, particularly when you're attempting to think about rates.

Number of New Federal Programs: ................................... 111

What are you referring to?
 
Some can afford it, but choose not to.
Most just can't afford it

I asked WHY? Why is an important question because it addresses whether I have a moral obligation to them or not. Again look at the message your sending. You're essentially telling people, that vbecause you aren't willing to find a better option, you're okay with saddling the responsible with the costs of the irresponsible.

Why? Because they are unemployed or their employer doesn't offer insurance and buying it on the open market is way too cost prohibitive. When it comes down to making a decision between paying for food, rent or health insurance, which one do you think will be dropped first?

Because I'm trying to show how overboard, immoral and inefficient this is for such a small group of people. You libs don't get it. To make society better you make people be MORE responsible for themselves, not less.
 
I asked WHY? Why is an important question because it addresses whether I have a moral obligation to them or not. Again look at the message your sending. You're essentially telling people, that vbecause you aren't willing to find a better option, you're okay with saddling the responsible with the costs of the irresponsible.

Why? Because they are unemployed or their employer doesn't offer insurance and buying it on the open market is way too cost prohibitive. When it comes down to making a decision between paying for food, rent or health insurance, which one do you think will be dropped first?

you la teee da people make me puke, they don't just choose beteween the smorgasbord you listed,, add,cigarettes wine, alcohol, whores, fancy clothes, furniture, the biggest damn tv they can find and drugs,, yes,, I said drugs, recreational drugs. there's a whole lot of stuff irresponsible people want to spend their money on.

You're not even close.
 
The cost of medicine is higher for a lot of reasons beyond the "Guberment". It only stands to reason that medicine was cheaper when a stethescope and X-Ray was considered high technology.


Without having an opinion of the OP, I can say with a high degree of certainty that Da gubmint is nawt da cawse for hire prices.
 
I asked WHY? Why is an important question because it addresses whether I have a moral obligation to them or not. Again look at the message your sending. You're essentially telling people, that vbecause you aren't willing to find a better option, you're okay with saddling the responsible with the costs of the irresponsible.

Why? Because they are unemployed or their employer doesn't offer insurance and buying it on the open market is way too cost prohibitive. When it comes down to making a decision between paying for food, rent or health insurance, which one do you think will be dropped first?

Because I'm trying to show how overboard, immoral and inefficient this is for such a small group of people. You libs don't get it. To make society better you make people be MORE responsible for themselves, not less.

Only it's not "a small group of people".
 
Without Obamacare
Average Cost of Health Insurance Per Family: .................. $13,375
Average Family Size: ..................................................... 3.1 people
Average Per Person Cose of Health Insurance: ................. $4315

With Obamacare
Obamacare Cost: ........................................................... $871,000,000,000 to cover 31,000,000 Americans
Average Per Person (Benificiary) Cost: ............................. $28,100

I'm going to introduce you to a very important concept called time.

When someone writes "average cost of health insurance per family" there, what they really mean is "average annual cost...". That's the average cost over the span of one year.

When someone writes "$871,000,000,000 to cover 31,000,000 Americans," they're referring to a different span of time, presumably the period of 2014-2019 (the initiation of the major coverage expansions through the end of the first 10-year budget window). So when you divide $871 billion by 31 million people to get a figure of $28,100 per person that's not $28,100 per person per year, it's $28,100 per person per six years. If you wanted to look at the average annual amount of the federal subsidy, that would come out to $4,683 per person. Not that comparing the value of refundable tax credits + Medicaid funds to premiums makes sense in the first place but we can temporarily overlook that, I suppose.

Time. Very important, particularly when you're attempting to think about rates.

Number of New Federal Programs: ................................... 111

What are you referring to?

Oh OK. I get it. And this must mean $1,000,000 over 80 years U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time . gotcha. But I'm sure healthcare will be run as responsible as social security and medicare huh? THIS IS WHAT TIME HAS DONE TO US!> U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time Now prove to me the same thing wont happen to Obamacare. GOOD LUCK!
 
Argument: I guess it comes down to a simple question of, do you think you should be denied health care in the country if you can not afford it.

If you say yes, then we really have nothing else to discuss.

If you say no, we discuss how do we best pay for it. Which is what this legislation is about.

Thats right. Ask any old timer who was around befor government assisted healthcare and see how the prices skyrocked after. If you really want none of us to have healthcare you do this >>> U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time Medicare liability. $77,000,000,000,000 . Prescription drug liability. $19,000,000,000,000 . Liability per taxpayer. $1,014,000. Not at all realistic. And thats not counting the money every family pais for healthcare before they get those entitlements. Welcome to reality. If you think that we can afford Obamacare always remember that liberals said the same thing about Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. Every time the government steps in to solve the ills of society they always do the exact oppisite of what they set out for. You cant afford healthcare? Thats none of my consern!

The cost of medicine is higher for a lot of reasons beyond the "Guberment". It only stands to reason that medicine was cheaper when a stethescope and X-Ray was considered high technology.

Furthermore, as I've pointed out to you dullards on many occasions, medicine is taught and learned at teaching hospitals that service medicaid populations, the uninsured, and the under insured.

Do you think anyone that can afford to pay for healthcare is going to let a medical student poke and prod on them and be treated by a resident physician? Fuck no.

If you guys eliminate "government healthcare" you will be completely screwing up how medical training works in this country. Eventually it will be your consern, because your physicians will be poorly trained.

You don't learn medicine from a book. You learn it from patients.

Eliminate government healthcare and we eliminate this >> U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time . Or we could continue on that path so that NO ONE CAN AFFORD HEALTHCARE. I'm not asking you to pay for my short commings. Dont ask me to pay for yours!
 
Without Obamacare
Average Cost of Health Insurance Per Family: .................. $13,375
Average Family Size: ..................................................... 3.1 people
Average Per Person Cose of Health Insurance: ................. $4315

With Obamacare
Obamacare Cost: ........................................................... $871,000,000,000 to cover 31,000,000 Americans
Average Per Person (Benificiary) Cost: ............................. $28,100

I'm going to introduce you to a very important concept called time.

When someone writes "average cost of health insurance per family" there, what they really mean is "average annual cost...". That's the average cost over the span of one year.

When someone writes "$871,000,000,000 to cover 31,000,000 Americans," they're referring to a different span of time, presumably the period of 2014-2019 (the initiation of the major coverage expansions through the end of the first 10-year budget window). So when you divide $871 billion by 31 million people to get a figure of $28,100 per person that's not $28,100 per person per year, it's $28,100 per person per six years. If you wanted to look at the average annual amount of the federal subsidy, that would come out to $4,683 per person. Not that comparing the value of refundable tax credits + Medicaid funds to premiums makes sense in the first place but we can temporarily overlook that, I suppose.

Time. Very important, particularly when you're attempting to think about rates.

Number of New Federal Programs: ................................... 111

What are you referring to?

Oh OK. I get it. And this must mean $1,000,000 over 80 years U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time . gotcha. But I'm sure healthcare will be run as responsible as social security and medicare huh? THIS IS WHAT TIME HAS DONE TO US!> U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time Now prove to me the same thing wont happen to Obamacare. GOOD LUCK!

Hey, do you know of any good sites that tell us about the running total of the national debt?
 
The cost of medicine is higher for a lot of reasons beyond the "Guberment". It only stands to reason that medicine was cheaper when a stethescope and X-Ray was considered high technology.


Without having an opinion of the OP, I can say with a high degree of certainty that Da gubmint is nawt da cawse for hire prices.

I agree. It's also not really "defensive medicine" (malpractice accounts for only about 3% of the total cost).
 
Eliminate government healthcare and we eliminate this >> U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time . Or we could continue on that path so that NO ONE CAN AFFORD HEALTHCARE. I'm not asking you to pay for my short commings. Dont ask me to pay for yours!

If you think eliminating government healthcare would eliminate the debt, you are delusional. We still have a trade deficit, you know.

Other than that, your last line is your usual emotion laden crappola and you still haven't responded to any of my points.

As has been pointed out to your now, your statistics are bunk for two important reasons: time and the number of people considered.

Are you still going to parade them around as a display of your statistical ignorance?
 
Why? Because they are unemployed or their employer doesn't offer insurance and buying it on the open market is way too cost prohibitive. When it comes down to making a decision between paying for food, rent or health insurance, which one do you think will be dropped first?

Because I'm trying to show how overboard, immoral and inefficient this is for such a small group of people. You libs don't get it. To make society better you make people be MORE responsible for themselves, not less.

Only it's not "a small group of people".

Yes it is if you think about. We're talking about all people that don't carry insurance. We're talking about a very specific set of peope that don't pay for insurance. The people that just can't pay don't count. As you said, we'll have to pay for them no matter what. The people without insurance that pay there own medical costs some other way don't count. The ONLY people we are trying to address are those that can afford insurance, but don't purchase it. And we're not even trying to address all of those people. Only the ones that actually do need treatment but don't pay for it. You don't need an unconstitutional mandate to address these people. If all we are talking about is people who could pay but choose not to, well that means they have the ability to pay, so they can work out some type of payment plan with the hospital. Really the mandate does basically nothing and assuredely makes things worse.
 
I'm going to introduce you to a very important concept called time.

When someone writes "average cost of health insurance per family" there, what they really mean is "average annual cost...". That's the average cost over the span of one year.

When someone writes "$871,000,000,000 to cover 31,000,000 Americans," they're referring to a different span of time, presumably the period of 2014-2019 (the initiation of the major coverage expansions through the end of the first 10-year budget window). So when you divide $871 billion by 31 million people to get a figure of $28,100 per person that's not $28,100 per person per year, it's $28,100 per person per six years. If you wanted to look at the average annual amount of the federal subsidy, that would come out to $4,683 per person. Not that comparing the value of refundable tax credits + Medicaid funds to premiums makes sense in the first place but we can temporarily overlook that, I suppose.

Time. Very important, particularly when you're attempting to think about rates.



What are you referring to?

Oh OK. I get it. And this must mean $1,000,000 over 80 years U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time . gotcha. But I'm sure healthcare will be run as responsible as social security and medicare huh? THIS IS WHAT TIME HAS DONE TO US!> U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time Now prove to me the same thing wont happen to Obamacare. GOOD LUCK!

Hey, do you know of any good sites that tell us about the running total of the national debt?

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
 

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