Why Not Feel Sorry for BP?

[HUGGY]

Why is it that the laws of the free market JUST CAN'T WORK if your choices in stock market purchases turn out to be bogus?

 

[California Girl]

Why is it that the laws of the free market JUST CAN'T WORK if your choices in stock market purchases turn out to be bogus?

DiaperBoy Logic. "I have decided that CG owns shares in BP, therefore CG does own shares in BP." Even you must see how fucking moronic that logic is.

 

[HUGGY]

I..Think I hear someone in the distance but I can't be sure....Oh well..I'll just ignore it. It seems like "someone" has a personal interest in a certain company that has failed. That certain someone...has shown a leaning towards market forces to be the rule of the rule up until now. Strange.....

 

[California Girl]

I..Think I hear someone in the distance but I can't be sure....Oh well..I'll just ignore it. It seems like "someone" has a personal interest in a certain company that has failed. That certain someone...has shown a leaning towards market forces to be the rule of the rule up until now. Strange.....

Since you choose to keep spreading lies about me, as an individual, I choose to challenge these lies. Try not to be a moron all your life, Diaper. You state, with conviction, that I own BP shares. Prove it.

 

[HUGGY]

A certain someone thinks I made a statement of fact concerning that someones finances. That someone is, as usual, in error. I suggested that that someone sell BP. That is all.

 

[Bfgrn]

It's not just about our cars. Parts of the country would starve, because they can't produce enough food and need to transport it in. We'd all be making our own clothes.... cus we wouldn't be able to run the factories that make them.... here or abroad.... And even if they could be manufactured, we couldn't move stuff around the country.

Basically, we'd go back a century. One has to wonder 'is that the "progress" that the left really support?'

It's laughable.

SO...BP is too big to fail?

"We'd all be making our own clothes"...your pea brain premises are truly laughable... if BP fails it will shut down sweat shops in Asia and India?

I'm glad to see you seek out the 'Union label' on garments. At least you support unions...even if it IS unwittingly...

Petro by products are used in a huge number of industries, including clothing. And, even if India and Asia could produce the clothes.... how do we transport them? The Star Ship Enterprise? Without transport - everyone eats what can be produced locally. Everyone wears what can be produced locally. Empty malls and and millions out of work.

Like WAR and imperialism?

I wonder what Iraq would look like today if BP and the CIA didn't fund the Ba'athists?

Abd al-Karim Qasim

Qasim was Prime Minister of Iraq from July 1958 - February 1963.

Qasim soon withdrew Iraq from the pro-Western Baghdad Pact and established friendly relations with the Soviet Union. Iraq also abolished its Treaty of mutual security and bilateral relations with the UK. Also, Iraq withdrew from the agreement with the United States that was signed by the monarchy from 1954 to 1955 regarding military, arms, and equipment. On May 30, 1959, the last of the British soldiers and military officers departed the al-Habbāniyya base in Iraq.

On July 26, 1958, the Interim Constitution was adopted, proclaiming the equality of all Iraqi citizens under the law and granting them freedom without regard to race, nationality, language or religion.

The government freed political prisoners and granted amnesty to the Kurds who participated in the 1943 to 1945 Kurdish uprisings. The exiled Kurds returned home and were welcomed by the republican regime.

Qasim lifted a ban on the Iraqi Communist Party, and demanded the annexation of Kuwait. He was also involved in the 1958 Agrarian Reform, modeled after the Egyptian experiment of 1952.

Qasim is said by his admirers to have worked to improve the position of ordinary people in Iraq, after the long period of self-interested rule by a small elite under the monarchy which had resulted in widespread social unrest.

Qasim passed law No. 80 which seized 99% of Iraqi land from the British-owned Iraq Petroleum Company, and distributed farms to more of the population. This increased the size of the middle class. Qasim also oversaw the building of 35,000 residential units to house the poor and lower middle classes. The most notable example, and indeed symbol, of this was the new suburb of Baghdad named Madinat al-Thawra (revolution city), renamed Saddam City under the Baath regime and now widely referred to as Sadr City.

Qasim rewrote the constitution to encourage women’s participation in the society.

Qasim was overthrown by the Ba'athist coup of February 8, 1963, motivated by fear of communist influence and state control over the petroleum sector. This coup has been reported to have been carried out with the backing of the British government and the American CIA.

Iraq Petroleum Company

The Iraq Petroleum Company (IPC), until 1929 called Turkish Petroleum Company (TPC), was an oil company jointly owned by some of the world's largest oil companies, which had virtual monopoly on all oil exploration in Iraq from 1925 to 1961.

July 1928: shareholders sign a formal agreement: the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (which in 1935 became the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company

Anglo-Iranian Oil Company

The Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC) was founded in 1908 following the discovery of a large oil field in Masjed Soleiman, Iran. It was the first company using the oil reserves of the Middle East. APOC was renamed Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC) in 1935 and eventually became the British Petroleum Company (BP) in 1954, as one root of the BP Company today.

 

[uscitizen]

Tis the problem with our entire political class...they cannot see beyond their own noses.

Like our financial industry could see beyond their own immediate profit?

LIke our individual citizens could see why going eyeball deep in debt was a bad thing?

Or using the equity they had built up in their home like a credit card?

 

[Care4all]

I don't believe for a nano second we would go back a hundred years CG, if we had never decided to use oil for gasoline for our cars....if oil did not exist, we would have used electricity to move people around in cars or coal for the steam engines in trains or even made more nuclear plants....

We are NOT stupid people, we are creative, we have ingenuity, we would have used it....we are not a country made up of defeatists.

Care

 

[Mr Natural]

Fuck 'em.

If they went under tommorrow, there'd be someone else to take up the slack in no time flat.

 

[Care4all]

If BP is to blame, or who they contracted, then they SHOULD get the blame put on them....

why dance around it?

Al capone did alot of good with charities, that did not give him the grace to do as he pleased....

i don't know where people are getting that BP is one of the safest oil drillers....they have a horrible record, from what I have read?

Yes, I do feel sorry for them....BUT if they or their contractors CAUSED THIS and the eleven men were killed unnecessarily, then they merely reap what they sowed...that's how it is for any of us peons, why give the special treatment to them?

 

[Sarah G]

I do feel sorry for BP, I saw their CEO being interviewed and he seemed terribly upset and admitted they were responsible and acting as quickly as possible to get it cleaned up.

I just wish they could get the dang thing shut off and cleaned up and find better ways to avoid this in the future.

 

[California Girl]

I don't believe for a nano second we would go back a hundred years CG, if we had never decided to use oil for gasoline for our cars....if oil did not exist, we would have used electricity to move people around in cars or coal for the steam engines in trains or even made more nuclear plants....

We are NOT stupid people, we are creative, we have ingenuity, we would have used it....we are not a country made up of defeatists.

Care

We used to be, absolutely. Now, it appears we are becoming a nation of European-esque whiners and 'gimme, gimme, gimme'.

It is NOT just about our cars. Petro-chems are used in a vast number of products that we would not have. Even our damned computers wouldn't exist without that industry. It is not about getting from a to b....

And, sure, others would come in to take over BP.... those companies will probably be the big Russian or Chinese companies. Think they are more ethical owners of companies like BP? Seriously? Look at their companies track records. Do we really want to be even more beholden to countries like Russia and China?

 

[California Girl]

I do feel sorry for BP, I saw their CEO being interviewed and he seemed terribly upset and admitted they were responsible and acting as quickly as possible to get it cleaned up.

I just wish they could get the dang thing shut off and cleaned up and find better ways to avoid this in the future.

How sensible!! Finally, we have some liberals who see something other than the 'corporation' and see the people behind it. People forget that BP is made up of human beings - most of them are honest, hard working, decent people. Their CEO certainly is. 11 of his staff died on that rig. Anyone who thinks that does not weigh heavily on him is an idiot. I'm glad you saw his interview. Like you, I think we should focus on how fast they can stop it and clean it up and let the blame game wait until the disaster is sorted.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

It was 21 years ago that the Exxon-Valdez leaked oil and unleashed torrents of environmental hysteria. Rothbard got it right in his piece "Why Not Feel Sorry for Exxon?"

After the BP-hired oil rig exploded last week, the environmentalists went nuts yet again, using the occasion to flail a private corporation and wail about the plight of the "ecosystem," which somehow managed to survive and thrive after the Exxon debacle.

Why Not Feel Sorry for BP? by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.

I do feel sorry for them. It's a shame you have to go and demonize people that are concerned about the environment, though.

Well I didn't actually say anything in that post myself, so I didn't demonize anyone.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

From Lew Rockwell's article: "It should be obvious that BP is by far the leading victim, but I've yet to see a single expression of sadness for the company and its losses."

Victim? BP and big oil has fought and lobbied for years against rules and safety procedures that would have prevented this blowout. BP has a dismal safety record, now THEY are the victims?

Reports Show BP Opposed New Safety Rules - WSJ.com
BP leads the nation in refinery deaths - Houston Chronicle


Ironic, this weekend Don Blankenship, Massey Energy CEO, where last month 29 miners perished in a deadly blast at the Upper Big Branch Mine in West Virginia NOW claims HE is the victim of 'evil people'

Massey chief calls critics evil - Charleston Daily Mail

These type of catastrophes clearly shine a light on who or 'what' right wingers are. They put property and money WAY before people or any living, breathing creature on this planet and their 'personal responsibility' mantra only applies to 'others', usually the ones that actually DIE.

The right...'VICTIMS'...

Kevin, I misjudged you. It thought you had some ethics and human decency, I was wrong. You join the ranks of right wing extremists...the PEA brains


Whenever a separation is made between liberty and justice, neither, in my opinion, is safe.
Edmund Burke

Yes, you are misjudging me. I am not on the "right," so therefore couldn't possibly be a "right wing extremist."

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I..Think I hear someone in the distance but I can't be sure....Oh well..I'll just ignore it. It seems like "someone" has a personal interest in a certain company that has failed. That certain someone...has shown a leaning towards market forces to be the rule of the rule up until now. Strange.....

Who's saying anything about not allowing the free market to do what it needs to do? I haven't seen anyone in this thread say BP should be bailed out or that they're too big to fail. We have only made the point that it's a shame this accident happened, not only for the loss of life, but because it will also likely cost many people their jobs as a good business struggles. One can feel sorry for BP while still believing in the free market.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If BP is to blame, or who they contracted, then they SHOULD get the blame put on them....

why dance around it?

Al capone did alot of good with charities, that did not give him the grace to do as he pleased....

i don't know where people are getting that BP is one of the safest oil drillers....they have a horrible record, from what I have read?

Yes, I do feel sorry for them....BUT if they or their contractors CAUSED THIS and the eleven men were killed unnecessarily, then they merely reap what they sowed...that's how it is for any of us peons, why give the special treatment to them?

Accidents generally are unnecessary. Nobody is saying give special treatment to BP. They took a risk and it backfired. Now they're losing money daily, they'll have to pay for the cleanup, 11 people are dead, and their reputation is in the trash. This was obviously not a deliberate act on their part, so why should we act like they're pure evil?

 

[Bfgrn]

I..Think I hear someone in the distance but I can't be sure....Oh well..I'll just ignore it. It seems like "someone" has a personal interest in a certain company that has failed. That certain someone...has shown a leaning towards market forces to be the rule of the rule up until now. Strange.....

Who's saying anything about not allowing the free market to do what it needs to do? I haven't seen anyone in this thread say BP should be bailed out or that they're too big to fail. We have only made the point that it's a shame this accident happened, not only for the loss of life, but because it will also likely cost many people their jobs as a good business struggles. One can feel sorry for BP while still believing in the free market.

Belief in a free market and what we have today are as different as day and night. I subscribe to many libertarian beliefs found on Lew's site, but when it come to economics, I depart from their naivete.

WE LIVE under free markets. Corporations live under socialism. The cost of that socialism impacts We, the People in the form of corporate cost externalization. When you factor in workplace injuries, medical care required by the failure of unsafe products, health costs from pollution, and many others, the costs to U.S. taxpayers was $3.5 trillion per year in 1995. It has only escalated over the past decade of Bush's extreme corporate socialism.

When Good Corporations Go Bad | Worldwatch Institute

 

[Care4all]

I don't believe for a nano second we would go back a hundred years CG, if we had never decided to use oil for gasoline for our cars....if oil did not exist, we would have used electricity to move people around in cars or coal for the steam engines in trains or even made more nuclear plants....

We are NOT stupid people, we are creative, we have ingenuity, we would have used it....we are not a country made up of defeatists.

Care

We used to be, absolutely. Now, it appears we are becoming a nation of European-esque whiners and 'gimme, gimme, gimme'.

It is NOT just about our cars. Petro-chems are used in a vast number of products that we would not have. Even our damned computers wouldn't exist without that industry. It is not about getting from a to b....

And, sure, others would come in to take over BP.... those companies will probably be the big Russian or Chinese companies. Think they are more ethical owners of companies like BP? Seriously? Look at their companies track records. Do we really want to be even more beholden to countries like Russia and China?

Why do you presume it would be the russians or chinese instead of someone like ExxonMobile? do the russians and the chinese have a speciaql relationship with bp?

bp made $6billion in profit in just ONE QUARTER, 3 months....this spill is costing them about $6 million a day in clean up/containment expense is what i heard on the 24/7....it would take 1000 days (3 YEARS) of spending 6 million a day to come to the PROFITS they make in 90 days....I don't see them going UNDER or bankrupt off of this....even if it costed more that $6 million a day.....

 

[California Girl]

I don't believe for a nano second we would go back a hundred years CG, if we had never decided to use oil for gasoline for our cars....if oil did not exist, we would have used electricity to move people around in cars or coal for the steam engines in trains or even made more nuclear plants....

We are NOT stupid people, we are creative, we have ingenuity, we would have used it....we are not a country made up of defeatists.

Care

We used to be, absolutely. Now, it appears we are becoming a nation of European-esque whiners and 'gimme, gimme, gimme'.

It is NOT just about our cars. Petro-chems are used in a vast number of products that we would not have. Even our damned computers wouldn't exist without that industry. It is not about getting from a to b....

And, sure, others would come in to take over BP.... those companies will probably be the big Russian or Chinese companies. Think they are more ethical owners of companies like BP? Seriously? Look at their companies track records. Do we really want to be even more beholden to countries like Russia and China?

Why do you presume it would be the russians or chinese instead of someone like ExxonMobile? do the russians and the chinese have a speciaql relationship with bp?

bp made $6billion in profit in just ONE QUARTER, 3 months....this spill is costing them about $6 million a day in clean up/containment expense is what i heard on the 24/7....it would take 1000 days (3 YEARS) of spending 6 million a day to come to the PROFITS they make in 90 days....I don't see them going UNDER or bankrupt off of this....even if it costed more that $6 million a day.....

I didn't 'presume', I put forward a 'what if' scenario. BP has incredibly valuable resources - both the Russian and Chinese would be very, very happy to get their hands on those assets. They also have very, very deep pockets.... it is likely that many, probably not all, of those assets would fall into Russian or Chinese hands. If you have no problem with that, fine. I do. My main problem is that neither the Russians or the Chinese are exactly environmentally friendly. You think BP are profit driven? Just wait till you see what the Russians and Chinese are like.

To be honest, I don't see them going under either. They made $17 b last year and $24b the year before that. They have a massive asset bank. I think they'll survive. I'm just considering those who want to see the demise of BP and hoping they'll understand that the break up of BP would not necessarily be in the best interests of Americans.