Why No Exit Dates

[Gunny]

You've Gotta be KIDDING ME! We were in that country for the better part of 15 years! How friggin long did you expect us to keep losing our troops lives for a country that NEVER appreciated us!

Bill O'reilly of fox news flat out called Lyndon Baines Johnson a "war Criminal" because of all the troops that died at his ignorant hands.


Yeah, i'm MAKING up the fact that i'm in the military. What a bunch of ignorant fools you all are!

Another thing I take offense to and many troops nowadays would. "Sir Evil" who decided to call me a "pencil pushing geek" is insulting many fine soldiers over there as we speak. Every Marine, Soldier, Sailor, and Airman serving there are brave superior men and women. There is NO such thing as a "geek" in country. If ANYONE needs to be questioned, it's him! This is not 15 years ago. Anyone that has been in country knows that the Combat support elements are in JUST as much danger as the combat elements...in some cases such as the 88M truck drivers...even MORE danger! I would like to show him a few "pencil pushing geeks" that have served there and tell them that to their face!

I expected this rambling ignorance from liberals, not conservatives! All I attempted to offer was a different perspective sprinkled in with facts and this is the type of ridiculous responses I get! Cmon for God's sakes, show some class!

It is not that the people didn't appreciate us. They didn't appreciate democracy, and the regime we backed was more interested in self-enrichment/indulgence and keeping up their prejudices that divided theri own country rather than offer the people something that would make it worth fighting for.

Farmers living in huts don't care WHO is blowing up their rice paddy. All they know is their crop is gone.

We should not have pursued political change via military force. Easy to say in hindsight. However, the US military was overwhelmingly successful in engaging the enemy.

Tet 68 was a political loss because Walter Cronkite said so. It was an overwhelming military success. Two NVA divisions wiped off the Earth and teh Viet Cong ceased to exist.

As far as anyone questioning your service goes ..... you sure aren't acting like any Marine officers I ever served.

 

[nakedemperor]

The war is going stupendously.

CIA report on Iraq

A new classified report by the Central Intelligence Agency says Iraq could be an even more effective training ground for Islamic terrorists than Afghanistan was under the Taliban, U.S. officials told CNN Wednesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/22/iraq.main/index.html

 

[rtwngAvngr]

CIA report on Iraq

A new classified report by the Central Intelligence Agency says Iraq could be an even more effective training ground for Islamic terrorists than Afghanistan was under the Taliban, U.S. officials told CNN Wednesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/22/iraq.main/index.html

But I thought the war on terror was just a lie concocted by the Bush Regime to justify U.S. imperialism, a wag the dog of epic proportions. You lefty nubs need to get your story straight.

Oh wait, you believe in the war on terror and believe we should attack every country in the midest EXCEPT iraq. Right?

 

[zigomanis18]

21 years huh? I had assumed from your post you were some 18 years old kid who got more than what he bargained. You had to have reenlisted at least 3 times to get to 21. Even if you were fooled the first time, there are no excuses after that.

I have to wonder if you display such an attitude in front of your troops. I had my bitches about the Corps. Usually started when I opened my eyes in the morning. But I did NOT bitch in front of my troops, and I damned sure would rather choke and die than bitch to a bunch of civilians.

I feel I have the right to say suck it up because I have eight deployments under my belt. One was supposed to be for 6 months and turned into a war and 368 days before I saw CONUS again. SO yeah, you caould say I been there done that.

Leaving a job unfinished is incomprehensible to me. Instead of complaining about the administration for inconveniencing your personal life, why don't you complain about those who keep the administration and military hamstrung so they don't dare do what needs to be done to end this insurgency/terrorist/murdering scumbag BS?

Seems to me you got the wrong target in your scope.

Gunny, at least I can work with this. I commend you for being the FIRST one to respond with dignity. Let me first say that I DO NOT bitch in front of my troops , You are right in saying that this is wrong to do. Let me also say that being a staff officer I see alot of things done that are down right immoral and underhanded. Alot of this is due to the extreme pressure the administration is putting on the services right now. I honestly believe that Mr. Bush ( and I give him the proper respect ) and his officials did not plan for alot of things that have heppended. Every body makes mistakes, that is true. But many of the mistakes were made in the beginning due to arrogance. That bothers me because few outside of the military understand the bubble that is about to burst. draft is IN the works because it has to be. In order for this to continue for another 7 years the troops simply cannot be stretched out anymore. Why am I so BAD for saying that?

Also, I agree with you there are many ( radical liberals ) that would see Bush fail. It is not actually Bush they hate but conservatism in general. No matter WHO the republican in office, they would throw a thorn in their side.

No, I have not been fooled. 21 years and going in my service, and no, I have NEVER mentioned how this affects me PERSONALLY. That is an assumption YOU are all saying about me. I have seen how it affects some of MY soldiers and I have seen the coldness of the Army. And at times, it is simply wrong.
Many soldiers are on their 3rd and 4th deployments and it is only 3 years in. These deployments are now for at LEAST 1 year. If this keeps up, nobody will want ot reenlist. THe administration and the Army are very concerned about this. Trust me, I have been to staff meetings.

But again, thank you for your response. I can tell you had a successful military career. But you were a Marine, and most of them have alot of class.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Gunny, at least I can work with this. I commend you for being the FIRST one to respond with dignity. Let me first say that I DO NOT bitch in front of my troops , You are right in saying that this is wrong to do. Let me also say that being a staff officer I see alot of things done that are down right immoral and underhanded. Alot of this is due to the extreme pressure the administration is putting on the services right now. I honestly believe that Mr. Bush ( and I give him the proper respect ) and his officials did not plan for alot of things that have heppended. Every body makes mistakes, that is true. But many of the mistakes were made in the beginning due to arrogance. That bothers me because few outside of the military understand the bubble that is about to burst. draft is IN the works because it has to be. In order for this to continue for another 7 years the troops simply cannot be stretched out anymore. Why am I so BAD for saying that?

Also, I agree with you there are many ( radical liberals ) that would see Bush fail. It is not actually Bush they hate but conservatism in general. No matter WHO the republican in office, they would throw a thorn in their side.

No, I have not been fooled. 21 years and going in my service, and no, I have NEVER mentioned how this affects me PERSONALLY. That is an assumption YOU are all saying about me. I have seen how it affects some of MY soldiers and I have seen the coldness of the Army. And at times, it is simply wrong.
Many soldiers are on their 3rd and 4th deployments and it is only 3 years in. These deployments are now for at LEAST 1 year. If this keeps up, nobody will want ot reenlist. THe administration and the Army are very concerned about this. Trust me, I have been to staff meetings.

But again, thank you for your response. I can tell you had a successful military career. But you were a Marine, and most of them have alot of class.

Hey G.I. Joe. It's President Bush.

 

[zigomanis18]

It is not that the people didn't appreciate us. They didn't appreciate democracy, and the regime we backed was more interested in self-enrichment/indulgence and keeping up their prejudices that divided theri own country rather than offer the people something that would make it worth fighting for.

Farmers living in huts don't care WHO is blowing up their rice paddy. All they know is their crop is gone.

We should not have pursued political change via military force. Easy to say in hindsight. However, the US military was overwhelmingly successful in engaging the enemy.

Tet 68 was a political loss because Walter Cronkite said so. It was an overwhelming military success. Two NVA divisions wiped off the Earth and teh Viet Cong ceased to exist.

As far as anyone questioning your service goes ..... you sure aren't acting like any Marine officers I ever served.

But that is exactly my point. The last poster said we should have never pulled out? When is enough, enough? The war in vietnam ( never a declared war ) was eun by washington rather than the military, we all know that. There are NO veterans that have been affected like "nam" veterans. 15 years in a country is more than enough. The soldiers there fought bravely and had to fight washington as well as the enemy on ground.

As far as how I am "acting" Sir, you, and the rest of the posters know NOTHING about me. Just because myself ( and many others officers I know ) have different opinions does NOT mean when push comes to shove we don't get the job done. Personal opinions are everybody's right. Being obedient to your superiors is another. Not everybody fighting there believes in what they are doing BUT they still perform their appointed duties because they uphold the honor and dignity of the american soldier and the country. If you and everyone else wish to judge me because of my personal opinions, so be it.

 

[zigomanis18]

Chill out paper soldier! you have yet to make anything clear outside of the fact that you served, cangratulations to you!

first you say it should be a hit & run in Iraq, then you jump to complaining that the president said it should be a walk in the park, now you wanna start shit because you haven't stayed the course with any thing you started.

I would be more than happy to meet you and tell you to your face that you sound like a pencil pusher! You served so I should be scared?

if you can't make a post and then follow through with it then hit the road!

Read my posts assh-le if you can actually read! I NEVER said it would be a "walk in the park" nor "HIT and Run", I am merely giving you other facts to show the seriousness of the situation.

Your total disrespect of soldiers is obvious. "pencil pushing geeks?" This is how you talk about brave men in Iraq? There are many "pencil pushing geeks" in Iraq who I would stand next to any day before you pal. Whatever their job is in Iraq, everyone is at deaths door daily, and serve with pride and are due respect. You are a joke!

 

[zigomanis18]

Still waiting miss know it all! I have answered your question twice. I am still waiting for YOUR responses to my concerns...or do you wish to just "sweep" it under the rug because it doesn't fit into your house of cards?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Read my posts assh-le if you can actually read! I NEVER said it would be a "walk in the park" nor "HIT and Run", I am merely giving you other facts to show the seriousness of the situation.

Your total disrespect of soldiers is obvious. "pencil pushing geeks?" This is how you talk about brave men in Iraq? There are many "pencil pushing geeks" in Iraq who I would stand next to any day before you pal. Whatever their job is in Iraq, everyone is at deaths door daily, and serve with pride and are due respect. You are a joke!

And what is your suggestion? Give arbitrary pullout dates, regardless of the situation? Sum it up for us.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The easy questions stump him. You get a page on his credentials and zip on his suggestions. Can anyone say, "nub"?

 

[Annie]

Still waiting miss know it all! I have answered your question twice. I am still waiting for YOUR responses to my concerns...or do you wish to just "sweep" it under the rug because it doesn't fit into your house of cards?

Not exactly, you took off after me when I had posted that the troops were probably going to be deployed in Iraq from 5-7 years, based on what I read. You replied:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=295405#post295405

Originally Posted by zigomanis18
Which is exactly why we need to be more agressive. The politically correct approach to this war will not work as it did not work in Vietnam. Soldiers want to kick a-- and should be allowed to. Otherwise, we the troops become a glorified "peace Corps". In reality, the troops feel much more secure when they are on the offensive rather than the defensive like they have been for a while now.

I laugh when some say we are in year 3 of a 10 year plan. How the heck can anyone predict 7 years in the future? Is essence, all that really means is there IS no end in sight. Going in strong, "hitting them hard" and getting out is JUST as effective to terrorists as lingering around on the defensive...especially when any terrorist can cross the mexican/canadian border at will.

Well I'm not going to argue, rather I will defer to your call. I'm only dealing with what I've read from various sources and been able to reason out-which most assuredly can be flawed.
I REPLIED
I think that a US presence in the ME isn't going to end though, if not Iraq, where?

I replied again:

Originally Posted by zigomanis18
Really? 5 years or more? let me ask you this question. Are you or have you ever been in the military? Do you have any idea the stress many reservists are feeling having been deployed there sometimes twice and 3 times already?
....

I agree with Archangel, you bring up very good points. First let me say, "Thanks for your service."
AND ASKED:
I understand what you are saying about the deployments, I also think you are correct about retention. With that said, do you think they should just pull out? Will that care for the problem long term? What would be your plan?

You then replied:

Some stuff about liberal Europe, then on UN:

I think we have to start to think about ourselves, since most of the Liberal European world does everything they can to thwart us. For one, I honestly believe we need to pull out of the ever growing corrupt and powerless United Nations. We have to stop thinking about Iraq as our "needy" friends because the cold reality is that NO Arab nation is really our ally and all would turn on us in a heartbeat if it were advantageous to them. The Arab world's track record speaks for itself.​

Followed by good words about troops. Then about how arrogance of administration, which you voted for must stop.

I replied:

I hope that everyone cares about our troops. I understand the difference those that served have-it surely is more personal.

Islam didn't exist until over 600 years after Christ, but the Arabs and Israelis have been going at it for a long time. I don't think we went into Iraq or are staying there for 'friendship' or 'ally'. I think it was to try to bring as many terrorists together to be destroyed as possible. I think it was to put neighboring dictatorships on notice that the US wasn't going to just wait for the next hit-we were bringing to the enemy.

Now was that correct? Should we stay with that plan?​

You replied:

Which is exactly why we need to be more agressive. The politically correct approach to this war will not work as it did not work in Vietnam. Soldiers want to kick a-- and should be allowed to. Otherwise, we the troops become a glorified "peace Corps". In reality, the troops feel much more secure when they are on the offensive rather than the defensive like they have been for a while now.

I laugh when some say we are in year 3 of a 10 year plan. How the heck can anyone predict 7 years in the future? Is essence, all that really means is there IS no end in sight. Going in strong, "hitting them hard" and getting out is JUST as effective to terrorists as lingering around on the defensive...especially when any terrorist can cross the mexican/canadian border at will.

I replied:


Well I'm not going to argue, rather I will defer to your call. I'm only dealing with what I've read from various sources and been able to reason out-which most assuredly can be flawed.

I think that a US presence in the ME isn't going to end though, if not Iraq, where?

That brings us to the end of that thread.

 

[Gunny]

Hey G.I. Joe. It's President Bush.

Not that I would EVER be a stickler for details, but the proper way for a military person to address the President is "Mr." When refering to the President as part of the chain of command, he is "The Honorable Mr Bush." That applies to the VP, SecDef, and service secretary.

I don't know that anyone was ever put on mess duty for addressing him by title though. Just an FYI.

 

[nakedemperor]

Not that I would EVER be a stickler for details, but the proper way for a military person to address the President is "Mr." When refering to the President as part of the chain of command, he is "The Honorable Mr Bush." That applies to the VP, SecDef, and service secretary.

I don't know that anyone was ever put on mess duty for addressing him by title though. Just an FYI.

I always wondered why people gave me funny looks for calling him President Bitch.. :chains: