Why marriage no longer makes sense

[Cecilie1200]

Children deserve two parents. Period.

Kids deserve good providers. The "they need a mother and father" mantra is code for "We want to maintain a patriarchal structure."

Spoken like someone who's arrogant enough to think he's smarter and wiser than nature, psychology, and the whole of human history.

Also spoken like someone destined to never have a happy relationship.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I dont disagree with you there, but I dont believe men is financially, spiritually, or emotionally advantageous for a man to get married under todays climate.

Children deserve two parents. Period.

Why? Because women are closer to autonomy?

No, because women only come in individual, one-person units, which means they can't do as much as two people can. We call that "mathematics". Not only that, children are PRODUCED by two people, and need and deserve both their progenitors in their lives. And third, women are . . . wait for it . . . WOMEN, which means they have jack shit to teach children about relating to males, let alone being males. Duhh.

Having done both the single mom and married mom thing, I can state categorically that anyone who thinks children needing and deserving both parents is just about "taking the mother's autonomy" is a complete and utter dumbfuck who would do their own children a favor by not having them.

 

[JD_2B]

I dont disagree with you there, but I dont believe men is financially, spiritually, or emotionally advantageous for a man to get married under todays climate.

Why? Because women are closer to autonomy?

No, because women only come in individual, one-person units, which means they can't do as much as two people can. We call that "mathematics". Not only that, children are PRODUCED by two people, and need and deserve both their progenitors in their lives. And third, women are . . . wait for it . . . WOMEN, which means they have jack shit to teach children about relating to males, let alone being males. Duhh.

Having done both the single mom and married mom thing, I can state categorically that anyone who thinks children needing and deserving both parents is just about "taking the mother's autonomy" is a complete and utter dumbfuck who would do their own children a favor by not having them.

I have to disagree.. If it werent for women with strong boundaries and rules, men would not exist..

They would just be males, trapped in some freakish 14 year old mindset..

Learning how to be a man does not require brawn or beard.. it only requires a good, solid, anthropological understanding of the male gender.

There are just as many men out there as there are women who do not know how to change a tire, rebuild a carburator, throw a long pass with the football, or slam dunk a basketball.. and many of them are considered just as manly and virile as many of those dumb jocks are, who incidentally, can't balance a checkbook or keep a hobby that does not involve getting sweaty and dirty..

Families that have rigid gender roles are one of society's PROBLEMS. If we are to raise our boys into being extraordinary men, then we need to drop the neanderthalic bullshit and teach them to be contributing citizens of the world, rather than just forcing them to fit some freaky mold, and turning them into robots..

My own son made me the coolest birthday present... He cut patterns of fabric out, and sewed me a beautiful snowman quilt.. Its only about the size of a baby blanket, but it was really nice and he put a lot of effort into it. I didn't even teach him.. He asked my neighbor to teach him how to quilt and sew, after seeing some quilts that looked really cool to him.

And no- my son is not GAY, so don't go there. He has had a couple of girlfriends already, and one time, I even caught him with a "stuff" magazine, where he cut out the pictures of the girls (who were in their underwear- yeah I confiscated the whole kit and kaboodle) and pasted them into his own little girly magazine, complete with captions. He also took some of the girls pictures and taped them to his wall.
Oh and when we used to go to hooters, when he was small, he would shake his chest at the girls, and stare at their tits, and the servers would all come over and shake their jugs for him, LMAO!!!! I made him stop acting like that when he was like 5, though.. lol Little brat.. hahaha Cute brat, though.. MY brat.. No dad needed.

 

[JW Frogen]

Learning how to be a man does not require brawn or beard.. it only requires a good, solid, anthropological understanding of the male gender.

And a big dick, don't forget the big dick. (Some women deny it, all know it.)

My anthropological site will take centuries to dig.

 

[CurveLight]

I dont disagree with you there, but I dont believe men is financially, spiritually, or emotionally advantageous for a man to get married under todays climate.

Why? Because women are closer to autonomy?

No, because women only come in individual, one-person units, which means they can't do as much as two people can. We call that "mathematics". Not only that, children are PRODUCED by two people, and need and deserve both their progenitors in their lives. And third, women are . . . wait for it . . . WOMEN, which means they have jack shit to teach children about relating to males, let alone being males. Duhh.

Having done both the single mom and married mom thing, I can state categorically that anyone who thinks children needing and deserving both parents is just about "taking the mother's autonomy" is a complete and utter dumbfuck who would do their own children a favor by not having them.

It appears you had a harder time being a single parent versus having someone to help you out and you're somewhat bitter about that challenge. That cannot be translated into an unequivocal justified patriarchal mandate. You try to hide all of this behind the need to follow "nature" but very rarely is this ever consistent. Do you shave your legs? Do you tell other women to not wear make-up? Do you? Those activities aren't "natural" yet I am confident you have not argued against them nor stopped participating.
Calling someone else a dumbfuck out of disagreement proves making babies doesn't make one mature.

 

[CurveLight]

Why? Because women are closer to autonomy?

No, because women only come in individual, one-person units, which means they can't do as much as two people can. We call that "mathematics". Not only that, children are PRODUCED by two people, and need and deserve both their progenitors in their lives. And third, women are . . . wait for it . . . WOMEN, which means they have jack shit to teach children about relating to males, let alone being males. Duhh.

Having done both the single mom and married mom thing, I can state categorically that anyone who thinks children needing and deserving both parents is just about "taking the mother's autonomy" is a complete and utter dumbfuck who would do their own children a favor by not having them.

I have to disagree.. If it werent for women with strong boundaries and rules, men would not exist..

They would just be males, trapped in some freakish 14 year old mindset..

Learning how to be a man does not require brawn or beard.. it only requires a good, solid, anthropological understanding of the male gender.

There are just as many men out there as there are women who do not know how to change a tire, rebuild a carburator, throw a long pass with the football, or slam dunk a basketball.. and many of them are considered just as manly and virile as many of those dumb jocks are, who incidentally, can't balance a checkbook or keep a hobby that does not involve getting sweaty and dirty..

Families that have rigid gender roles are one of society's PROBLEMS. If we are to raise our boys into being extraordinary men, then we need to drop the neanderthalic bullshit and teach them to be contributing citizens of the world, rather than just forcing them to fit some freaky mold, and turning them into robots..

My own son made me the coolest birthday present... He cut patterns of fabric out, and sewed me a beautiful snowman quilt.. Its only about the size of a baby blanket, but it was really nice and he put a lot of effort into it. I didn't even teach him.. He asked my neighbor to teach him how to quilt and sew, after seeing some quilts that looked really cool to him.

And no- my son is not GAY, so don't go there. He has had a couple of girlfriends already, and one time, I even caught him with a "stuff" magazine, where he cut out the pictures of the girls (who were in their underwear- yeah I confiscated the whole kit and kaboodle) and pasted them into his own little girly magazine, complete with captions. He also took some of the girls pictures and taped them to his wall.
Oh and when we used to go to hooters, when he was small, he would shake his chest at the girls, and stare at their tits, and the servers would all come over and shake their jugs for him, LMAO!!!! I made him stop acting like that when he was like 5, though.. lol Little brat.. hahaha Cute brat, though.. MY brat.. No dad needed.

Curious why you had to pronounce he isn't gay? As for confiscating his Stuff kit n' kaboodle......that was cruel!!

 

[JD_2B]

No, because women only come in individual, one-person units, which means they can't do as much as two people can. We call that "mathematics". Not only that, children are PRODUCED by two people, and need and deserve both their progenitors in their lives. And third, women are . . . wait for it . . . WOMEN, which means they have jack shit to teach children about relating to males, let alone being males. Duhh.

Having done both the single mom and married mom thing, I can state categorically that anyone who thinks children needing and deserving both parents is just about "taking the mother's autonomy" is a complete and utter dumbfuck who would do their own children a favor by not having them.

I have to disagree.. If it werent for women with strong boundaries and rules, men would not exist..

They would just be males, trapped in some freakish 14 year old mindset..

Learning how to be a man does not require brawn or beard.. it only requires a good, solid, anthropological understanding of the male gender.

There are just as many men out there as there are women who do not know how to change a tire, rebuild a carburator, throw a long pass with the football, or slam dunk a basketball.. and many of them are considered just as manly and virile as many of those dumb jocks are, who incidentally, can't balance a checkbook or keep a hobby that does not involve getting sweaty and dirty..

Families that have rigid gender roles are one of society's PROBLEMS. If we are to raise our boys into being extraordinary men, then we need to drop the neanderthalic bullshit and teach them to be contributing citizens of the world, rather than just forcing them to fit some freaky mold, and turning them into robots..

My own son made me the coolest birthday present... He cut patterns of fabric out, and sewed me a beautiful snowman quilt.. Its only about the size of a baby blanket, but it was really nice and he put a lot of effort into it. I didn't even teach him.. He asked my neighbor to teach him how to quilt and sew, after seeing some quilts that looked really cool to him.

And no- my son is not GAY, so don't go there. He has had a couple of girlfriends already, and one time, I even caught him with a "stuff" magazine, where he cut out the pictures of the girls (who were in their underwear- yeah I confiscated the whole kit and kaboodle) and pasted them into his own little girly magazine, complete with captions. He also took some of the girls pictures and taped them to his wall.
Oh and when we used to go to hooters, when he was small, he would shake his chest at the girls, and stare at their tits, and the servers would all come over and shake their jugs for him, LMAO!!!! I made him stop acting like that when he was like 5, though.. lol Little brat.. hahaha Cute brat, though.. MY brat.. No dad needed.

Curious why you had to pronounce he isn't gay? As for confiscating his Stuff kit n' kaboodle......that was cruel!!

Oh- sorry that wasnt for you in particular, I just find that some idiotic people on this board are so homophobic that I wanted to defend my sons honor before anyone decided to use this as a grounds for flaming.. You aren't much of a flamer- It was a pre-emptive strike, more than anything, lol

Cruel?? He was 9!!! He shouldn't objectify women that way at any age, anyways lol!!!
(I let him keep a couple of the less provocative pictures on his wall, at least..)

Oh and when I caught him on some website that was full of filth, he said it was an accident, etc.. (bullshit- he had already been on it a few days in a row!) I made a deal with him that he can have a subscription to "stuff" and "maxim" magazines (hes 10, but I think Maxim and Stuff are okay, for the visual "girl parts" stimuli that men seem to be fascinated with- no nudity, but sometimes has girls in skimpy bikinis and the tops of some of their butts are sometimes bare.. I intend to review and censor certain things out ahead of time, lol) and if he is good about avoiding porn websites, that he MIGHT get a Playboy subscription for his 17th birthday. This is an empty promise for the most part, but if he just wants it for the boobs, then I can't blame him..

See- I am actually a really nice mom, overall. LOL!!

 

[CurveLight]

I have to disagree.. If it werent for women with strong boundaries and rules, men would not exist..

They would just be males, trapped in some freakish 14 year old mindset..

Learning how to be a man does not require brawn or beard.. it only requires a good, solid, anthropological understanding of the male gender.

There are just as many men out there as there are women who do not know how to change a tire, rebuild a carburator, throw a long pass with the football, or slam dunk a basketball.. and many of them are considered just as manly and virile as many of those dumb jocks are, who incidentally, can't balance a checkbook or keep a hobby that does not involve getting sweaty and dirty..

Families that have rigid gender roles are one of society's PROBLEMS. If we are to raise our boys into being extraordinary men, then we need to drop the neanderthalic bullshit and teach them to be contributing citizens of the world, rather than just forcing them to fit some freaky mold, and turning them into robots..

My own son made me the coolest birthday present... He cut patterns of fabric out, and sewed me a beautiful snowman quilt.. Its only about the size of a baby blanket, but it was really nice and he put a lot of effort into it. I didn't even teach him.. He asked my neighbor to teach him how to quilt and sew, after seeing some quilts that looked really cool to him.

And no- my son is not GAY, so don't go there. He has had a couple of girlfriends already, and one time, I even caught him with a "stuff" magazine, where he cut out the pictures of the girls (who were in their underwear- yeah I confiscated the whole kit and kaboodle) and pasted them into his own little girly magazine, complete with captions. He also took some of the girls pictures and taped them to his wall.
Oh and when we used to go to hooters, when he was small, he would shake his chest at the girls, and stare at their tits, and the servers would all come over and shake their jugs for him, LMAO!!!! I made him stop acting like that when he was like 5, though.. lol Little brat.. hahaha Cute brat, though.. MY brat.. No dad needed.

Curious why you had to pronounce he isn't gay? As for confiscating his Stuff kit n' kaboodle......that was cruel!!

Oh- sorry that wasnt for you in particular, I just find that some idiotic people on this board are so homophobic that I wanted to defend my sons honor before anyone decided to use this as a grounds for flaming.. You aren't much of a flamer- It was a pre-emptive strike, more than anything, lol

Cruel?? He was 9!!! He shouldn't objectify women that way at any age, anyways lol!!!
(I let him keep a couple of the less provocative pictures on his wall, at least..)

Oh and when I caught him on some website that was full of filth, he said it was an accident, etc.. (bullshit- he had already been on it a few days in a row!) I made a deal with him that he can have a subscription to "stuff" and "maxim" magazines (hes 10, but I think Maxim and Stuff are okay, for the visual "girl parts" stimuli that men seem to be fascinated with- no nudity, but sometimes has girls in skimpy bikinis and the tops of some of their butts are sometimes bare.. I intend to review and censor certain things out ahead of time, lol) and if he is good about avoiding porn websites, that he MIGHT get a Playboy subscription for his 17th birthday. This is an empty promise for the most part, but if he just wants it for the boobs, then I can't blame him..

See- I am actually a really nice mom, overall. LOL!!

Think I understand your intent but it may have sent a different message. Defending his honor in pointing out he isn't gay is a dig towards gays. If there is nothing wrong with being gay then how could his honor be threatened if some random people on a forum thinks he might be gay?


It's cool you let him have the Stuff but he's too young to objectify. He's just exploring and the objectification cannot be a concern until he has entered dating. It doesn't seem like there is much of a danger of him treating women as objects with you as his mother.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why? Because women are closer to autonomy?

No, because women only come in individual, one-person units, which means they can't do as much as two people can. We call that "mathematics". Not only that, children are PRODUCED by two people, and need and deserve both their progenitors in their lives. And third, women are . . . wait for it . . . WOMEN, which means they have jack shit to teach children about relating to males, let alone being males. Duhh.

Having done both the single mom and married mom thing, I can state categorically that anyone who thinks children needing and deserving both parents is just about "taking the mother's autonomy" is a complete and utter dumbfuck who would do their own children a favor by not having them.

I have to disagree.. If it werent for women with strong boundaries and rules, men would not exist..

They would just be males, trapped in some freakish 14 year old mindset..

I have to say, this entire post just proves my point about how a woman cannot possibly teach a child anything about being a man. I'm sorry, JD, but you have some serious issues with men, from what I can see, and could not hope but to completely warp your child's mind on the subject without an actual man around to balance them out.

Learning how to be a man does not require brawn or beard.. it only requires a good, solid, anthropological understanding of the male gender.

Right. And I can thoroughly and effectively teach someone to be a dog simply by observing dogs.

One wonders if you think the essence of being a woman would be so easy for a man to teach.

There are just as many men out there as there are women who do not know how to change a tire, rebuild a carburator, throw a long pass with the football, or slam dunk a basketball.. and many of them are considered just as manly and virile as many of those dumb jocks are, who incidentally, can't balance a checkbook or keep a hobby that does not involve getting sweaty and dirty.

Being a man is no more "changing tires and playing football" than being a woman is putting on makeup and walking in high heels without breaking your ankle. Again, we are faced with your seriously skewed and, I'm thinking, man-hating viewpoint. Now we can see that it also has all the depth of a mud puddle.

Families that have rigid gender roles are one of society's PROBLEMS. If we are to raise our boys into being extraordinary men, then we need to drop the neanderthalic bullshit and teach them to be contributing citizens of the world, rather than just forcing them to fit some freaky mold, and turning them into robots..

Would you care to tell me how to "raise an extraordinary man" when you don't even have a man around for a visual aid? Oh, I know! You raise extraordinary men by teaching them that masculinity is "Neanderthal bullshit" and that they should try to be more like women! Yeah, that'll do it. Because we all know that women are a superior race and femininity is the answer to everything.

One wonders whether or not you think a girl having a mother and female role model is "forcing her to fit some freaky mold and turning her into a robot". And by the way, project much?

My own son made me the coolest birthday present... He cut patterns of fabric out, and sewed me a beautiful snowman quilt.. Its only about the size of a baby blanket, but it was really nice and he put a lot of effort into it. I didn't even teach him.. He asked my neighbor to teach him how to quilt and sew, after seeing some quilts that looked really cool to him.

And no- my son is not GAY, so don't go there. He has had a couple of girlfriends already, and one time, I even caught him with a "stuff" magazine, where he cut out the pictures of the girls (who were in their underwear- yeah I confiscated the whole kit and kaboodle) and pasted them into his own little girly magazine, complete with captions. He also took some of the girls pictures and taped them to his wall.
Oh and when we used to go to hooters, when he was small, he would shake his chest at the girls, and stare at their tits, and the servers would all come over and shake their jugs for him, LMAO!!!! I made him stop acting like that when he was like 5, though.. lol Little brat.. hahaha Cute brat, though.. MY brat.. No dad needed.

Sounds to me like the only person around here with "freaky molds" and stereotypes and gender issues is YOU. Listen to yourself. "Sewing is women's work, and so I need to jump in and assert that my son isn't gay simply because he learned to do women's work. Being a man is changing tires and playing football and getting dirty." And I'm not even going to get into the unhealthy sexual patterns alluded to here. From what you say, though, I intensely disagree with the idea that no dad is needed.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why? Because women are closer to autonomy?

No, because women only come in individual, one-person units, which means they can't do as much as two people can. We call that "mathematics". Not only that, children are PRODUCED by two people, and need and deserve both their progenitors in their lives. And third, women are . . . wait for it . . . WOMEN, which means they have jack shit to teach children about relating to males, let alone being males. Duhh.

Having done both the single mom and married mom thing, I can state categorically that anyone who thinks children needing and deserving both parents is just about "taking the mother's autonomy" is a complete and utter dumbfuck who would do their own children a favor by not having them.

It appears you had a harder time being a single parent versus having someone to help you out and you're somewhat bitter about that challenge. That cannot be translated into an unequivocal justified patriarchal mandate. You try to hide all of this behind the need to follow "nature" but very rarely is this ever consistent. Do you shave your legs? Do you tell other women to not wear make-up? Do you? Those activities aren't "natural" yet I am confident you have not argued against them nor stopped participating.
Calling someone else a dumbfuck out of disagreement proves making babies doesn't make one mature.

Sorry, Spanky. Don't project onto me, because it makes me feel like I need a shower. There's no bitterness involved in realizing that it's easier to handle life's crap as part of a team as opposed to a solo act. Like I said, that's just mathematics. And I have no idea what this "patriarchal mandate" you're babbling about is, but I suspect it's about YOUR issues being splattered all over the topic, rather than anything inherent.

It saddens me that I have to actually explain to someone who is, at least putatively, an adult that there's a world of difference between grooming choices and birthing and raising children. I am at this point going to simply let the mere fact of pointing out something so painfully, glaringly, childishly obvious stand as all the argument and refutation needed.

I don't worry terribly about whether or not dumbfucks find me mature. Shockingly, impressing you and winning your admiration doesn't fall high on my priority list.

 

[CurveLight]

No, because women only come in individual, one-person units, which means they can't do as much as two people can. We call that "mathematics". Not only that, children are PRODUCED by two people, and need and deserve both their progenitors in their lives. And third, women are . . . wait for it . . . WOMEN, which means they have jack shit to teach children about relating to males, let alone being males. Duhh.

Having done both the single mom and married mom thing, I can state categorically that anyone who thinks children needing and deserving both parents is just about "taking the mother's autonomy" is a complete and utter dumbfuck who would do their own children a favor by not having them.

It appears you had a harder time being a single parent versus having someone to help you out and you're somewhat bitter about that challenge. That cannot be translated into an unequivocal justified patriarchal mandate. You try to hide all of this behind the need to follow "nature" but very rarely is this ever consistent. Do you shave your legs? Do you tell other women to not wear make-up? Do you? Those activities aren't "natural" yet I am confident you have not argued against them nor stopped participating.
Calling someone else a dumbfuck out of disagreement proves making babies doesn't make one mature.

Sorry, Spanky. Don't project onto me, because it makes me feel like I need a shower. There's no bitterness involved in realizing that it's easier to handle life's crap as part of a team as opposed to a solo act. Like I said, that's just mathematics. And I have no idea what this "patriarchal mandate" you're babbling about is, but I suspect it's about YOUR issues being splattered all over the topic, rather than anything inherent.

It saddens me that I have to actually explain to someone who is, at least putatively, an adult that there's a world of difference between grooming choices and birthing and raising children. I am at this point going to simply let the mere fact of pointing out something so painfully, glaringly, childishly obvious stand as all the argument and refutation needed.

I don't worry terribly about whether or not dumbfucks find me mature. Shockingly, impressing you and winning your admiration doesn't fall high on my priority list.

You are being quite misleading and borderline dishonest by the claim it's easier as a team versus solo. By your above posts it is very clear it is not simply about the number of people but more importantly the genders. Here is the evidence: would you say it is better for a baby boy to be raised by his mother and two women versus his biological mother and father? In order to stay loyal to your "mathematics" defense you must answer "yes." We all see your position is not rooted in a team effort but rather the genders so don't insult our intelligence and accidentally embarrass yourself by these sophomoric attempts of reshaping your position whenever you feel trapped by your own words.

From the outright bitterness in all of your responses it sounds like you haven't had a breath-taking orgasm in about ten years. Is this why you are obsessed with needing a man? The patriarchal mandate is put forth by people who claim a child must have a mother and father. This is your position and it is based on the need to socially relate to others based not on position, accident, family ties, or friendships. It's based on maintaining a world ethos anchored in addressing people by what is between their legs.

 

[Annie]

I dont disagree with you there, but I dont believe men is financially, spiritually, or emotionally advantageous for a man to get married under todays climate.

Why? Because women are closer to autonomy?

No, because women only come in individual, one-person units, which means they can't do as much as two people can. We call that "mathematics". Not only that, children are PRODUCED by two people, and need and deserve both their progenitors in their lives. And third, women are . . . wait for it . . . WOMEN, which means they have jack shit to teach children about relating to males, let alone being males. Duhh.

Having done both the single mom and married mom thing, I can state categorically that anyone who thinks children needing and deserving both parents is just about "taking the mother's autonomy" is a complete and utter dumbfuck who would do their own children a favor by not having them.

Well there is something in what you say and somethings I find fault with. Having been married with 3 children for 14 years, now single with the same three for another 16 years; some was harder, some easier, now it's all easier. The easier came with finances-he made a decent salary and I was home with the kids, that was good for them and me; until he came home. He was not a good, even decent father; surprise, he still isn't to the now 4 year old and 6 year old he's added. He does make more money now though.

There was a down side in not having their father around, for both my daughter and sons. I was lucky that my dad and brother were around a lot. I also had returned to school for teaching creds, made some friends that were in their teens and twenties, they became 'big brothers' for a few years when the boys were 7-11. Since they were on the football team, they picked up sports stuff their father never would have taught them.

On the upside, I was able to handle discipline on my own, no arguments about it. There was consistency there which would not have happened with their dad.

Because of our situation, there was no way I was getting involved in a serious relationship while they were young. My first committed relationship wasn't until the youngest was in high school and other than a dinner to introduce him, he wasn't involved in their lives. Good thing too, as it wasn't something I stuck with.

About two years ago it was my kids that wanted me to start dating. I've gone out with plenty of men, had a good time. Still not finding a keeper, but I'm hoping to find a date when my daughter gets married.

 

[JD_2B]

No, because women only come in individual, one-person units, which means they can't do as much as two people can. We call that "mathematics". Not only that, children are PRODUCED by two people, and need and deserve both their progenitors in their lives. And third, women are . . . wait for it . . . WOMEN, which means they have jack shit to teach children about relating to males, let alone being males. Duhh.

Having done both the single mom and married mom thing, I can state categorically that anyone who thinks children needing and deserving both parents is just about "taking the mother's autonomy" is a complete and utter dumbfuck who would do their own children a favor by not having them.

I have to disagree.. If it werent for women with strong boundaries and rules, men would not exist..

They would just be males, trapped in some freakish 14 year old mindset..

I have to say, this entire post just proves my point about how a woman cannot possibly teach a child anything about being a man. I'm sorry, JD, but you have some serious issues with men, from what I can see, and could not hope but to completely warp your child's mind on the subject without an actual man around to balance them out.

My son has plenty of men around him to balance him out.. He doesn't need his mother to be married to one of them!

And no, this is not about MY issues with men.. but could very well be with your own issues of being scared or intimidated by going it alone. Have you ever considered that?

Learning how to be a man does not require brawn or beard.. it only requires a good, solid, anthropological understanding of the male gender.

Right. And I can thoroughly and effectively teach someone to be a dog simply by observing dogs.

One wonders if you think the essence of being a woman would be so easy for a man to teach.

Sure, why not?? Why would you prefer to limit yourself in your understanding of the opposite sex, or in different species? We ALL laugh, cry, love, hate, feel compassion, feel vengeful, we all hope and need and want and seek...
We are not that different, after all, and I refuse to force my son into some strict gender role just because *you* think that he can't possibly become a well rounded, virile, macho, productive guy when he grows up, if he *only* has a mother and no father. PS- its not so much a choice- his dad died. Even still, though, I have always had sole parental responsibility, and have done a darn good job with him so far.

There are just as many men out there as there are women who do not know how to change a tire, rebuild a carburator, throw a long pass with the football, or slam dunk a basketball.. and many of them are considered just as manly and virile as many of those dumb jocks are, who incidentally, can't balance a checkbook or keep a hobby that does not involve getting sweaty and dirty.

Being a man is no more "changing tires and playing football" than being a woman is putting on makeup and walking in high heels without breaking your ankle. Again, we are faced with your seriously skewed and, I'm thinking, man-hating viewpoint. Now we can see that it also has all the depth of a mud puddle.

LOL.. I actually advocate for men's rights, especially when it comes to paternity rights and other things pertaining to family court. I guess I am a man-hater, all because YOU think that MY son needs a person with an XY chromosome to "round him out". Buahahahahahahaha!!! TFF!!!!

Families that have rigid gender roles are one of society's PROBLEMS. If we are to raise our boys into being extraordinary men, then we need to drop the neanderthalic bullshit and teach them to be contributing citizens of the world, rather than just forcing them to fit some freaky mold, and turning them into robots..

Would you care to tell me how to "raise an extraordinary man" when you don't even have a man around for a visual aid? Oh, I know! You raise extraordinary men by teaching them that masculinity is "Neanderthal bullshit" and that they should try to be more like women! Yeah, that'll do it. Because we all know that women are a superior race and femininity is the answer to everything.

One wonders whether or not you think a girl having a mother and female role model is "forcing her to fit some freaky mold and turning her into a robot". And by the way, project much?

I am certainly not.. But you are. Your viewpoint on single parenting is EXTREMELY rigid, because YOU think that a child NEEDS a male and female caregiver to be well rounded. I fucking disagree. YOU want the child to not be too "feminine"- THAT is the problem, and YES that is WHY I brought up the rigid gender roles. No I am not turning my kid into a female, you stupid little bitch. You are twisting my words into an aggravating pile of brown smelly nonsense. I CAN BE JUST AS MALE ACTING AND JUST AS MACHO AS ANY MAN CAN. BOYS (And Men) CAN BE JUST AS FEMALE ACTING AND JUST AS PRISSY AS ANY WOMAN CAN. This is NOT about turning some child into acting overly one way or another. It is about BALANCE. If you are so reliant on some man to give your kids BALANCE, then the problem for your kids is not a male-female issue, the problem is just YOU. Apparently you need to take Juggling lessons..

I am a female, I have a blue belt in karate, I am a Navy Vet, and a future lawyer. Am I macho? OH HELL NO!!! But I can arm wrestle a man and win, and I can hold my own against an attacker, and kick ass against a room full of people at a pool hall. I am still FEMININE AND DELICATE AND BEAUTIFUL AND MY NAILS ARE ALWAYS PAINTED AND LONG.
My son can also be encouraged to try out "girl stuff" - most of which he avoids, but trying out these things, and developing skills that are considered feminine will NOT make him any less STRONG, or MACHO, or MANLY, or cause him to think more like the other gender does..
You are a fucking idiot for thinking this way. Does your husband THINK for you too??

My own son made me the coolest birthday present... He cut patterns of fabric out, and sewed me a beautiful snowman quilt.. Its only about the size of a baby blanket, but it was really nice and he put a lot of effort into it. I didn't even teach him.. He asked my neighbor to teach him how to quilt and sew, after seeing some quilts that looked really cool to him.

And no- my son is not GAY, so don't go there. He has had a couple of girlfriends already, and one time, I even caught him with a "stuff" magazine, where he cut out the pictures of the girls (who were in their underwear- yeah I confiscated the whole kit and kaboodle) and pasted them into his own little girly magazine, complete with captions. He also took some of the girls pictures and taped them to his wall.
Oh and when we used to go to hooters, when he was small, he would shake his chest at the girls, and stare at their tits, and the servers would all come over and shake their jugs for him, LMAO!!!! I made him stop acting like that when he was like 5, though.. lol Little brat.. hahaha Cute brat, though.. MY brat.. No dad needed.

Sounds to me like the only person around here with "freaky molds" and stereotypes and gender issues is YOU. Listen to yourself. "Sewing is women's work, and so I need to jump in and assert that my son isn't gay simply because he learned to do women's work. Being a man is changing tires and playing football and getting dirty." And I'm not even going to get into the unhealthy sexual patterns alluded to here. From what you say, though, I intensely disagree with the idea that no dad is needed.

Fuck off, you dumb self loathing, unbalanced, cant do it on your own bitch. Dont project your own woman hating onto me as if I am somehow a man hater because I have a well rounded child who happens to have a deceased father, you fucking little TWIT.

 

[logical4u]

NoMarriage.com - Why marriage no longer makes sense.

Traditional marriage balances different privileges and obligations for men and women. Modern woman wants all the benefits of "equality" without any of the responsibilities.

Traditional Western culture balanced special privileges for women with special obligations, and the same for men.

Equality states that no one get special privileges, and that responsibilities and rights should be equally shared.

Either system is balanced and fair. The problem with modern Western culture is that many women want only the positives from both systems:

They want special privileges from the traditional system (men paying, being "gentlemen" by using special deferential manners and language to women, being the main breadwinner, etc) but not the old-fashioned obligations (being modest and ladylike, being a housewife, etc).

I find your reasoning from a VERY narrow perspective. In studies where unmarried and married people are asked to rate contentment/ even happiness, the married people (including the men) have a better outlook and are more content than their unmarried peers.

If I was to answer in the tone of your statement, I would point out that many men today are dogs (whores), that have no problem using women and then cry like babies, when a woman does that to them. If you want women that are willing "to know their place", know yours: have strong morals, be faithful, treat your wife like your most prized possession, and encourage her spiritual growth to be a righteous woman (in the Lord's eyes).

In other words, you make the decisions, with your wife's council (you don't dump all the decisions on her and then whine when one doesn't please you), you act like a man (not a dog), you treat other men's wives and daughters with the utmost respect (because that is how you would want yours treated), you discuss the raising of your children and work together on discipline and rewards, and you, yes YOU do whatever it takes to provide for your family (not whine about her not helping enough).

Sorry, I got side-tracked. If there are problems in your life, blaming other people will do nothing to change the situation, only by accepting the problems and working on them yourself can change your outlook and your life.

 

[JD_2B]

I find your reasoning from a VERY narrow perspective. In studies where unmarried and married people are asked to rate contentment/ even happiness, the married people (including the men) have a better outlook and are more content than their unmarried peers.

I wonder who is conducting those surveys, and what areas in their life are being questioned..

financially- obviously someone who is married will be happier, as they can have twice the money and only one mortgage/rent payment a month.. and someone else available to pick up the kids from school if they are sick or need a change of clothes, are in trouble, or if the other parent is stuck working late. Yeah that helps significantly. Job security is also a big one here. People who wear wedding bands to job interviews are seen as more stable than their single counterparts, especially if they have children.

Response: There is a lot of employment discrimination for single parents.. but since employers cant ask you, all you need is a cheap gold wedding band, and poof- you're stable. Also, it is not like it is impossible to develop bonds and ties with other families in the community, and to find employers who are family friendly. Financially, sure there tends to be generally less money to throw around, but there are also less people to have to support in a down market, when one partner loses his or her job. Also, having less money teaches a child the value of a buck- something that many kids in two parent homes do not learn until they are actually in the workplace, or worse, after they leave the nest. It is not necessary for a child to have a bedroom fit for a king. Many kids in this country do not even have a TV in their rooms, and are much better behaved, with stronger impulse control than kids who have big screen plasmas and every video game machine man ever invented.. Prosperity is not the key to happiness.. Never has been...

Sexually- Clearly people who are married get to fuck a lot more frequently than their average single counterparts do. This can cause a massive increase in their happiness, obviously..

My response: Not all single people are sexually frustrated or deprived, either. Most single parents are attractive and sexually active enough, to at least have had kids. Some married people complain about the lack of sex they have also, and when they don't complain about this, they complain about their lack of social freedom, sexual boredom, how fat/gross their significant other has become, etc.. They often complain about a lot of fighting, too. Sorry but sex can have two very damaging qualities- It can make a good relationship go bad, and keep a bad relationship going.

Methodology:

In other words, some of us are happier about certain aspects of our lives than we are others, but the fact that these studies show that married people are more comfortable financially and sexually, does not really make a hill of beans difference to many single people, because had we been asked, and compared with the married folks:

How much independence you have?

S- I answer to nobody but myself.

M- I (usually, sometimes, hardly ever) have to check with my spouse, and it is (sometimes, always, hardly ever) an issue for me to do my own thing. The fact that he/she thinks they have some say in everything I do is reasonable.. I am, in fact, OWNED by my spouse, unfortunately.. haha just kidding.. Married life is great, I mean its okay anyways, except for this one little thing.

Do you feel that you have a strong social circle?

S- Yes! I have single friends and married friends.. Family, co-workers, neighbors, and people from XYZ ethnic backgrounds, and even gays and lesbians. I go out frequently, so I meet a lot of people, through social networking.

M- Mostly married people, and family. We know one of our neighbors, and our kids play with some of their friends from school, but our primary circle for socializing is family- related, and a few married couples we know. We don't go out too much, besides a family dinner here and there. There are a lot of rules for married people, and who they can hang out with, where, and doing what. It is a bit restrictive. Its cool, though.. I dont mind being a BALL AND CHAIN.

On a scale of one to ten, what is your stress level, on average?

S- Four to Six.. maybe seven on a bad day.

M- Is there an eleven option?? Let me tell you a story about this fight that me and my spouse have had since X number of months after we started dating.. Oh it happens a couple times a week.. We always fight about sex and money (the very things that your previous study found made us happier) She spends all my money and doesnt give me sex.. (or in a case of a woman very similar-) He spends all the money and never seems to want to have sex.. I have considered divorce on many occassions.. I dont dare file. It would break our kids hearts, and really, who would take care of the (bitch/ bastard) if not me? But we are happy.. OBVIOUSLY.

How often do you have to argue with someone to get housework done?

S- I tell my kids to clean their rooms. I have a schedule set up for them, and if they dont follow it, they get grounded. Sometimes I have to pull a few teeth, but overall, my kids know the routine.. and follow my rules.

M- Oh we never argue.. I just do everything and he sits on his lazy butt and takes the credit. We are JUST SO HAPPY. CANTCHA TELL!!!

How often do you have to argue with someone to decide on what to have for dinner?

S- I make TV dinners if I want. I never argue with anyone over this..

M- He hates broccoli.. I love greens. What more can I say? I wish he wouldn't eat so much meat, also.. Its bad for his heart.. "I keep telling you baby, its bad for your heart!! Have some rice cakes!"

How often do you have to argue with someone to discipline the children or make decisions about them?

S- Oh this is entirely my responsibility. I dont have to contend with someone else over this, ever. Sure, it can be frustrating at times, but when I was married it was worse, because me and my husband would fight for hours over something that I can now just explain to my child for a few minutes, and then proceed to ground him, if he does not follow the rules. I feel less frustrated now, too, because now my kid cannot take advantage of one of us by going to the other one for permission after the other one already said no. Also my kid can't get away with lying as easily about what the other one said or did, or try to put us at odds just to get us busy fighting and get his own way.. Its really much better!

M- I do all the disciplining. Wish my spouse played a bigger role, and didnt just argue with me about everything. I also wish my spouse would stop undermining my authority by eating our child's green beans when I am not looking, or cleaning his room for him, or telling our child that I am being unreasonable by grounding him, and then giving him outside play time, instead of enforcing the punishments. Our child needs to learn accountability.. But I am sure we will work through this.. Maybe during one of our sex and money chats, perhaps?? <sigh> I wonder who will be doing our taxes this year.. Probably be me, just like every year.. Lazy fucker...

 

[logical4u]

I find your reasoning from a VERY narrow perspective. In studies where unmarried and married people are asked to rate contentment/ even happiness, the married people (including the men) have a better outlook and are more content than their unmarried peers.

I wonder who is conducting those surveys, and what areas in their life are being questioned..

financially- obviously someone who is married will be happier, as they can have twice the money and only one mortgage/rent payment a month.. and someone else available to pick up the kids from school if they are sick or need a change of clothes, are in trouble, or if the other parent is stuck working late. Yeah that helps significantly. Job security is also a big one here. People who wear wedding bands to job interviews are seen as more stable than their single counterparts, especially if they have children.

Response: There is a lot of employment discrimination for single parents.. but since employers cant ask you, all you need is a cheap gold wedding band, and poof- you're stable. Also, it is not like it is impossible to develop bonds and ties with other families in the community, and to find employers who are family friendly. Financially, sure there tends to be generally less money to throw around, but there are also less people to have to support in a down market, when one partner loses his or her job. Also, having less money teaches a child the value of a buck- something that many kids in two parent homes do not learn until they are actually in the workplace, or worse, after they leave the nest. It is not necessary for a child to have a bedroom fit for a king. Many kids in this country do not even have a TV in their rooms, and are much better behaved, with stronger impulse control than kids who have big screen plasmas and every video game machine man ever invented.. Prosperity is not the key to happiness.. Never has been...

Sexually- Clearly people who are married get to fuck a lot more frequently than their average single counterparts do. This can cause a massive increase in their happiness, obviously..

My response: Not all single people are sexually frustrated or deprived, either. Most single parents are attractive and sexually active enough, to at least have had kids. Some married people complain about the lack of sex they have also, and when they don't complain about this, they complain about their lack of social freedom, sexual boredom, how fat/gross their significant other has become, etc.. They often complain about a lot of fighting, too. Sorry but sex can have two very damaging qualities- It can make a good relationship go bad, and keep a bad relationship going.

Methodology:

In other words, some of us are happier about certain aspects of our lives than we are others, but the fact that these studies show that married people are more comfortable financially and sexually, does not really make a hill of beans difference to many single people, because had we been asked, and compared with the married folks:

How much independence you have?

S- I answer to nobody but myself.

M- I (usually, sometimes, hardly ever) have to check with my spouse, and it is (sometimes, always, hardly ever) an issue for me to do my own thing. The fact that he/she thinks they have some say in everything I do is reasonable.. I am, in fact, OWNED by my spouse, unfortunately.. haha just kidding.. Married life is great, I mean its okay anyways, except for this one little thing.

Do you feel that you have a strong social circle?

S- Yes! I have single friends and married friends.. Family, co-workers, neighbors, and people from XYZ ethnic backgrounds, and even gays and lesbians. I go out frequently, so I meet a lot of people, through social networking.

M- Mostly married people, and family. We know one of our neighbors, and our kids play with some of their friends from school, but our primary circle for socializing is family- related, and a few married couples we know. We don't go out too much, besides a family dinner here and there. There are a lot of rules for married people, and who they can hang out with, where, and doing what. It is a bit restrictive. Its cool, though.. I dont mind being a BALL AND CHAIN.

On a scale of one to ten, what is your stress level, on average?

S- Four to Six.. maybe seven on a bad day.

M- Is there an eleven option?? Let me tell you a story about this fight that me and my spouse have had since X number of months after we started dating.. Oh it happens a couple times a week.. We always fight about sex and money (the very things that your previous study found made us happier) She spends all my money and doesnt give me sex.. (or in a case of a woman very similar-) He spends all the money and never seems to want to have sex.. I have considered divorce on many occassions.. I dont dare file. It would break our kids hearts, and really, who would take care of the (bitch/ bastard) if not me? But we are happy.. OBVIOUSLY.

How often do you have to argue with someone to get housework done?

S- I tell my kids to clean their rooms. I have a schedule set up for them, and if they dont follow it, they get grounded. Sometimes I have to pull a few teeth, but overall, my kids know the routine.. and follow my rules.

M- Oh we never argue.. I just do everything and he sits on his lazy butt and takes the credit. We are JUST SO HAPPY. CANTCHA TELL!!!

How often do you have to argue with someone to decide on what to have for dinner?

S- I make TV dinners if I want. I never argue with anyone over this..

M- He hates broccoli.. I love greens. What more can I say? I wish he wouldn't eat so much meat, also.. Its bad for his heart.. "I keep telling you baby, its bad for your heart!! Have some rice cakes!"

How often do you have to argue with someone to discipline the children or make decisions about them?

S- Oh this is entirely my responsibility. I dont have to contend with someone else over this, ever. Sure, it can be frustrating at times, but when I was married it was worse, because me and my husband would fight for hours over something that I can now just explain to my child for a few minutes, and then proceed to ground him, if he does not follow the rules. I feel less frustrated now, too, because now my kid cannot take advantage of one of us by going to the other one for permission after the other one already said no. Also my kid can't get away with lying as easily about what the other one said or did, or try to put us at odds just to get us busy fighting and get his own way.. Its really much better!

M- I do all the disciplining. Wish my spouse played a bigger role, and didnt just argue with me about everything. I also wish my spouse would stop undermining my authority by eating our child's green beans when I am not looking, or cleaning his room for him, or telling our child that I am being unreasonable by grounding him, and then giving him outside play time, instead of enforcing the punishments. Our child needs to learn accountability.. But I am sure we will work through this.. Maybe during one of our sex and money chats, perhaps?? <sigh> I wonder who will be doing our taxes this year.. Probably be me, just like every year.. Lazy fucker...

feedback from previous post: In other words, you make the decisions, with your wife's council (you don't dump all the decisions on her and then whine when one doesn't please you), you act like a man (not a dog), you treat other men's wives and daughters with the utmost respect (because that is how you would want yours treated), you discuss the raising of your children and work together on discipline and rewards, and you, yes YOU do whatever it takes to provide for your family (not whine about her not helping enough).

Sorry, I got side-tracked. If there are problems in your life, blaming other people will do nothing to change the situation, only by accepting the problems and working on them yourself can change your outlook and your life.

It sounds like you just aren't a MAN. You might be an adult male, but you can't see outside your box. If you don't like marriage, fine, it is a personal decision, but to say 'in general' that it is no longer necessary is a premature observation. If you study children that come from 'single parent' homes, they are more likely to have phsychological problems and get into trouble more (I am not saying this about ALL single parent homes). It seems when there are two loving parents that are married, children and society seem to do better. If you think the fun level or personal choices aren't there for you, don't go there, but don't try to condemn those that think building a life and family with another person is a good plan. Our priorities are different than yours, we don't mind if you want to act eighteen and think it is still 'cool' when you are in your forties, fifties and older. We are not telling you that you are wrong. Since you seem to dislike marriage so much, please tell us guru, how should we live our lives to achieve happiness and contentment? Question 2: How long does that last?

 

[Cecilie1200]

It appears you had a harder time being a single parent versus having someone to help you out and you're somewhat bitter about that challenge. That cannot be translated into an unequivocal justified patriarchal mandate. You try to hide all of this behind the need to follow "nature" but very rarely is this ever consistent. Do you shave your legs? Do you tell other women to not wear make-up? Do you? Those activities aren't "natural" yet I am confident you have not argued against them nor stopped participating.
Calling someone else a dumbfuck out of disagreement proves making babies doesn't make one mature.

Sorry, Spanky. Don't project onto me, because it makes me feel like I need a shower. There's no bitterness involved in realizing that it's easier to handle life's crap as part of a team as opposed to a solo act. Like I said, that's just mathematics. And I have no idea what this "patriarchal mandate" you're babbling about is, but I suspect it's about YOUR issues being splattered all over the topic, rather than anything inherent.

It saddens me that I have to actually explain to someone who is, at least putatively, an adult that there's a world of difference between grooming choices and birthing and raising children. I am at this point going to simply let the mere fact of pointing out something so painfully, glaringly, childishly obvious stand as all the argument and refutation needed.

I don't worry terribly about whether or not dumbfucks find me mature. Shockingly, impressing you and winning your admiration doesn't fall high on my priority list.

You are being quite misleading and borderline dishonest by the claim it's easier as a team versus solo. By your above posts it is very clear it is not simply about the number of people but more importantly the genders. Here is the evidence: would you say it is better for a baby boy to be raised by his mother and two women versus his biological mother and father? In order to stay loyal to your "mathematics" defense you must answer "yes." We all see your position is not rooted in a team effort but rather the genders so don't insult our intelligence and accidentally embarrass yourself by these sophomoric attempts of reshaping your position whenever you feel trapped by your own words.

I have been neither misleading nor dishonest at any point, so if you're having trouble grasping what I'm saying, don't look to put the blame off on me. While I have said, and will continue to say, that marriage makes life easier on a mathematical basis, I have NEVER said that that is the ONLY reason why marriage, and both biological parents, are good for children. Again, don't blame ME that you have diddled around for so long trying to quibble over simple, painfully obvious facts that you've lost track of the thread. And don't try to pretend to some grand, "Aha!" moment of revelation when you "reveal" that I have some "secret" belief in heterosexual couples that I was trying to "hide". Your incomprehension and blindness to facts staring you in the face doesn't mean they were hidden from you.

From the outright bitterness in all of your responses it sounds like you haven't had a breath-taking orgasm in about ten years. Is this why you are obsessed with needing a man? The patriarchal mandate is put forth by people who claim a child must have a mother and father. This is your position and it is based on the need to socially relate to others based not on position, accident, family ties, or friendships. It's based on maintaining a world ethos anchored in addressing people by what is between their legs.

Once again, you are projecting. Perhaps YOU have some issues and bitterness in this area, and so automatically assume that any woman who admits that having a man around is a good thing shares your emotional problems? Whatever, but this ain't your group therapy session, and I'm not getting paid enough to listen to you whining about your mommy issues, so save it for someone who's willing to pretend to care, okay? Perhaps whoever it was that you got that nonsensical psychobabble you're trying to foist off onto me. Although frankly, since that person appears to have taught you that relationships are evil traps to free yourself from, rather than a natural part of human life, maybe you should be suing him for malpractice, rather than listening to him.

 

[Neser Boha]

I am a product of a 'broken family' - in other words - my mother brought me up together with the help of her parents, my grandparents. And guess what - I'm fine. I don't have children yet, but when I do I hope I will have a partner (a husband in this case) for the long haul as I can see that it's much harder to be a single parent (generalizing here) - but that opinion is simply based on how I feel and also what I heard from others that actually went through all that (including my mother). On the other hand, I have a few friends that prefer being single parents to being married - simply because they had a bad experience with their partners - in one case, the woman was a junkie (cocain), in another case, the woman wasn't faithful. Both of those men's children are awesome, well-disciplined, and overall amazing children.

I think it is perfectly natural for people to want to live in pairs and raise their children in pairs. However, if a child should grow up in a toxic environment created by two adults not getting along, it would be MUCH better for the child to grow up with either just his/her father or his/her mother. The family might be incomplete (or at least the traditional image of family), but at least it's not a toxic environment where the child learns the wrong thing every day. That's why I wholeheartedly disagree with the ... let's not get divorced because of the children argument (at least not every time, it depends on individual marriages, of course).

I'm personally very glad my mother divorced my father as he used to physically abuse her and was an alcoholic on top of that. I'm glad she divorced him before I could even remember anything as I wouldn't want to remember that - having such a fuckface for a male role-model. Instead, my male role-model became my professor grandfather who despite all his faults loved me and taught me more than my own father did or would/could.

In other words - one can't just make blanket statements and behave that's the alpha and omega of the matter. World and life is way too complicated for simplistic statements.

 

[G.T.]

I'm sort of torn on this issue myself. I don't want to go into too much detail but let's just say I had a physically abused past and that was from the step-male, while drugs and alcohol were chillin with both the male and female. I played sports, and mi madre never showed to one single game, I walked home from all practices, had to catch rides w/coaches, had to buy my own school-clothes since I was roughly 13 and had a paper-route, had to be a slave around the house until the male moved out when I was 15, also my grandfather (idol)passed away and I decided to skip 52 days of school that year (made it up the next year)...............I began fighting alot which is almost good because it had me taking care of my body............doubled-up courses senior year, went to college and got on dean's list, and now am 28 and married to a 10. Umm, I dunno. I'd like to say it all built my character and I don't hate myself, and instead of "repeating" abuse as many say happens, I actually got the opposite - I fight against it and my kids, when I have them, will be spoiled as shit.

Far as marriage, when the male moved out, I was able to stop slaving over chores, ignore my Mom, skip school, basically do whatever I wanted....so I dunno.

 

[CurveLight]

Sorry, Spanky. Don't project onto me, because it makes me feel like I need a shower. There's no bitterness involved in realizing that it's easier to handle life's crap as part of a team as opposed to a solo act. Like I said, that's just mathematics. And I have no idea what this "patriarchal mandate" you're babbling about is, but I suspect it's about YOUR issues being splattered all over the topic, rather than anything inherent.

It saddens me that I have to actually explain to someone who is, at least putatively, an adult that there's a world of difference between grooming choices and birthing and raising children. I am at this point going to simply let the mere fact of pointing out something so painfully, glaringly, childishly obvious stand as all the argument and refutation needed.

I don't worry terribly about whether or not dumbfucks find me mature. Shockingly, impressing you and winning your admiration doesn't fall high on my priority list.

You are being quite misleading and borderline dishonest by the claim it's easier as a team versus solo. By your above posts it is very clear it is not simply about the number of people but more importantly the genders. Here is the evidence: would you say it is better for a baby boy to be raised by his mother and two women versus his biological mother and father? In order to stay loyal to your "mathematics" defense you must answer "yes." We all see your position is not rooted in a team effort but rather the genders so don't insult our intelligence and accidentally embarrass yourself by these sophomoric attempts of reshaping your position whenever you feel trapped by your own words.

I have been neither misleading nor dishonest at any point, so if you're having trouble grasping what I'm saying, don't look to put the blame off on me. While I have said, and will continue to say, that marriage makes life easier on a mathematical basis, I have NEVER said that that is the ONLY reason why marriage, and both biological parents, are good for children. Again, don't blame ME that you have diddled around for so long trying to quibble over simple, painfully obvious facts that you've lost track of the thread. And don't try to pretend to some grand, "Aha!" moment of revelation when you "reveal" that I have some "secret" belief in heterosexual couples that I was trying to "hide". Your incomprehension and blindness to facts staring you in the face doesn't mean they were hidden from you.

From the outright bitterness in all of your responses it sounds like you haven't had a breath-taking orgasm in about ten years. Is this why you are obsessed with needing a man? The patriarchal mandate is put forth by people who claim a child must have a mother and father. This is your position and it is based on the need to socially relate to others based not on position, accident, family ties, or friendships. It's based on maintaining a world ethos anchored in addressing people by what is between their legs.

Once again, you are projecting. Perhaps YOU have some issues and bitterness in this area, and so automatically assume that any woman who admits that having a man around is a good thing shares your emotional problems? Whatever, but this ain't your group therapy session, and I'm not getting paid enough to listen to you whining about your mommy issues, so save it for someone who's willing to pretend to care, okay? Perhaps whoever it was that you got that nonsensical psychobabble you're trying to foist off onto me. Although frankly, since that person appears to have taught you that relationships are evil traps to free yourself from, rather than a natural part of human life, maybe you should be suing him for malpractice, rather than listening to him.

It looks like you don't even read the posts you quote.