Why Land of the Free is so conflicted on health care..

[namvet]

65% of statisics are made up on the spot.

ie the DNC

 

[Samson]

The only fair 'new' system would be zero government contribution or running of it, reduce certain regulations to bring about more competition, and enact proper legislation to fix the true problem areas of denial of coverage, etc.... but no free rides, no added government red tape and bureaucracy, and no government mandates of mandatory insurance

"etc...." is more to the point of the matter: How much more does healthcare cost because the Lawyers that run D.C. and State Governments receive much of their campaign contributions from Lawyers that bring frivoulous malpractice suites against doctors and hospitals.

Where is Tort Reform in the Healthcare Reform Package?

.............

Yeah, let's just quietly ignore the 800 lb gorilla.

 

[Samson]

65% of statisics are made up on the spot.

 

[DiamondDave]

The only fair 'new' system would be zero government contribution or running of it, reduce certain regulations to bring about more competition, and enact proper legislation to fix the true problem areas of denial of coverage, etc.... but no free rides, no added government red tape and bureaucracy, and no government mandates of mandatory insurance

"etc...." is more to the point of the matter: How much more does healthcare cost because the Lawyers that run D.C. and State Governments receive much of their campaign contributions from Lawyers that bring frivoulous malpractice suites against doctors and hospitals.

Where is Tort Reform in the Healthcare Reform Package?

.............

Yeah, let's just quietly ignore the 800 lb gorilla.

I do not disagree with you at all on that

 

[Nosmo King]

The only fair 'new' system would be zero government contribution or running of it, reduce certain regulations to bring about more competition, and enact proper legislation to fix the true problem areas of denial of coverage, etc.... but no free rides, no added government red tape and bureaucracy, and no government mandates of mandatory insurance

"etc...." is more to the point of the matter: How much more does healthcare cost because the Lawyers that run D.C. and State Governments receive much of their campaign contributions from Lawyers that bring frivoulous malpractice suites against doctors and hospitals.

Where is Tort Reform in the Healthcare Reform Package?

.............

Yeah, let's just quietly ignore the 800 lb gorilla.

Tort reform is a matter for the states. That's where malpractice laws are written.

 

[Nosmo King]

With a DEM congress and this administration, I expect it to get worse, ESPECIALLY if government funded/mandated/subsidized/controlled health care is pushed through

I am for getting more lobbyists out of the system... but that is not going to happen now, and especially since we have seen Obama only pay lip service to such a problem

The only way to do it is to prevent the current leadership from pushing shit through.. and then to vote out the present leadership.... putting in those who stick to the principles of the republic as it was intended to be. putting in those who do not believe in the entitlement mantra. putting in those who will really put forth change and put forth the commitment to reduce government. Then and only then will you get true change in health care reform as needed. But I am in no way for trying to do this entitlement care just for the sake of doing something. As many parents have said over the years, do it right or don't do it at all

Yes... and you did catch my typo... of course I meant bridge

So you're for doing nothing until an ideological shift has occurred?!? You want the Republicans to regain power and then storm forward on reform because....they have shown us they are willing to do it in the past? Because they are not in the pockets of the special interests?!? Because they will follow up by eliminating Social Security and Medicare?!?

Something dogmatic ideologues forget is some Socialist programs are not only necessary but successful.

The problem is bitter partisanship. No real ideas have come from the right side of the aisle. No substantive suggestions have been proffered by the Republicans.

While you wait for the Cultural Revolution to happen to the GOP, the rest of the country is sick (literally) and tired of inaction, obstructionism and the ideological tectonic shifts currently destroying the Republican party.

The time for waiting for the political stars to align is over! The time for action is now.

Nice try.. I don't care if it is REP, DEM, CON, IND, or whatever other party, as long as the change comes in leadership.. removing the current corruption and overreaching within our government today... and I am for no change for merely the sake of change, especially towards government run/funded/subsidized/controlled health care.... PERIOD

I will take a flawed current system with freedoms over a socialized system... for YOU are the only one responsible for you and your well being, your care, your health, etc

Your want of action for the sake of action is frankly dangerous

If the current system had those vaunted "freedoms" included! So far, the only ones with "freedoms" are the insurers! They have the "freedom" to raise premiums, erode coverage, deny coverage and basically screw the American consumer at will! Is that "freedom" or just the "Freedom" the Conservative pundits wave in our faces?

I know I am responsible for my own well being. I just think the deck is stacked against me.

 

[Samson]

The only fair 'new' system would be zero government contribution or running of it, reduce certain regulations to bring about more competition, and enact proper legislation to fix the true problem areas of denial of coverage, etc.... but no free rides, no added government red tape and bureaucracy, and no government mandates of mandatory insurance

"etc...." is more to the point of the matter: How much more does healthcare cost because the Lawyers that run D.C. and State Governments receive much of their campaign contributions from Lawyers that bring frivoulous malpractice suites against doctors and hospitals.

Where is Tort Reform in the Healthcare Reform Package?

.............

Yeah, let's just quietly ignore the 800 lb gorilla.

Tort reform is a matter for the states. That's where malpractice laws are written.

Oh?

Then why isn't healthcare reform a state issue?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Don't bother withthese fools... they see America as a deeply flawed and bad place. Shows how out of touch with reality they really are.

 

[Diuretic]

The "debunking" by the Real Clear Politics article was amusing. This bit in particular:

First let's acknowledge that the U.S. medical system has serious problems. But the problems stem from departures from free-market principles. The system is riddled with tax manipulation, costly insurance mandates and bureaucratic interference. Most important, six out of seven health-care dollars are spent by third parties, which means that most consumers exercise no cost-consciousness. As Milton Friedman always pointed out, no one spends other people's money as carefully as he spends his own

.

I've tried to get some responses on this point about how "free-market forces" should work in health care, but so far haven't been too successful.

Anyone got an idea? I mean apart from the usual sloganeering about "socialised" medicine.

 

[Harry Dresden]

We are 37th on the list for industrialized nations.. That is inferiior..

No why are you a moron??

read post 17 dildo.....i have no problems with my big bad private ins......now why are you a moron?....

And yet you missed the issue...

I am glad your happy.. We are still 37th on the list for industrailized nations.. That isn't good..

But thanks for equating your love for your insurance with the rest of the nation... Talk to me when you get cancer or something.. We will see how you like it then when you are dropped..

wont be dropped fuck face they cover it....and try getting the difference between HEATH CARE and A HEALTH CARE SYSTEM...morons like you think they are the same.....the only thing Magical about you ballsack,is your stupidity....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Ahhh.. the debunked WHO rankings that had an inherent bias towards socialist systems and did not ensure the same reporting on all participant stats... not to mention forgetting to take into account things revolving around free choice and things that have no bearing on the health care system...

But nice try

I'm sorry?? It was debunked when?? Care to backup your words?? And please spare me some rightwing tabloid site or something.. Show me a mainstream website or impartial information..

Until such time the WHO stands!! As it is facts!!

No... it is selective facts, pointed specifically at socialized systems....

RealClearPolitics - Articles - Why the U.S. Ranks Low on WHO's Health-Care Study

As posted SO many times... even Stossel points out the inherent flaws to the ranking system used

The WHO ranking is a biased and agenda driven ranking, plain and simple

he cant see it Dave.....to much mist in front of him.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

America has the best health care in the world. Sorry that it wasn't socialist health care that got us there.

and many americans can't get access to that care b/c of asshole/greedy/immoral health insurance companies. get them out of the way and the rest of americans have a chance at a healthy life

and so you think the govt wont be selective and only cover certain things?.....just like it is now....

 

[Nosmo King]

"etc...." is more to the point of the matter: How much more does healthcare cost because the Lawyers that run D.C. and State Governments receive much of their campaign contributions from Lawyers that bring frivoulous malpractice suites against doctors and hospitals.

Where is Tort Reform in the Healthcare Reform Package?

.............

Yeah, let's just quietly ignore the 800 lb gorilla.

Tort reform is a matter for the states. That's where malpractice laws are written.

Oh?

Then why isn't healthcare reform a state issue?

Because heath care reform is something that spans state boundaries, you know, interstate commerce. Something the federal government has the right and responsibility to regulate according to the constitution.

 

[Navy1960]

First let me say this, I don't for one second think nor will I ever think the United States is a bad place, yes , we have issues, and many of them. What I do think is this nation was built on "self reliance" and that "can do" spirit" and nothing was too big for this nation to overcome and it's citizens to achieve as long as they were willing to work hard for it. That can do spirit is still there I believe , it's just that it seems to get lost sometimes in rapid paced society that has been programmed to add the words at the end "can do for me". While it's a noble thing to want to see that no person goes hungry, or without shelter, or without healthcare, at some point we as Americans must understand that by being all things to all people we make slaves of them as we take the basic desire to be free away from them. I submit that when a person is self reliant and works hard then they have the ability to pull others up around them. I have long thought those that represent us have forgotten that their real jobs is to create an atmosphere in which every American has an opportunity to do just that, rather than just providing it for them.

I hear over and over again, there needs to be a change, we are losing jobs overseas, etc. etc. and year after election year Americans vote for the same individuals who created the atmosphere for this and expect it to change and are constantly disappointed. or they just don't vote and then complain that their should be term limits. If you want to really change this nation, and CURE the things that are causing our problems or cut them down to size, then take the "TEAM" jersey off the next time you are in the voting booth and send a real message that WE THE PEOPLE run this nation and not those we elect.

 

[Nosmo King]

Don't bother withthese fools... they see America as a deeply flawed and bad place. Shows how out of touch with reality they really are.

But, do you think America is a place of flawless circumstance? There is no need to reform anything about this country? We are perfect as we stand?

Who's being foolish now? Those who see and understand the problems, or those who wear rose colored glasses?

 

[blu]

yep the world owes YOU a living. whens your welfare checks come????

your weak projection humors me. I think some of your brain must have been left behind in a rice field

my genration worked. yours fucks off. ah whats a rice paddy????

wouldn't unemployment be a bit higher than 10% if my whole generation fucked off?

 

[namvet]

Virtually no one in America gets to choose their insurance company, I think you underestimate how much difference a little competition can make.

Who doesn't get to choose their insurance company?

Most companies include medical insurance as part of your compensation so you end up with whoever they choose and virtually every employee is on that plan, or their spouse's employer's plan. Of course they don't reimburse you if you forego their insurance, you're just s.o.l.

once again. my co had a choice for 4 ins co's. as did many others. i know this makes no sense to you. maybe facts don't

 

[beowolfe]

The "debunking" by the Real Clear Politics article was amusing. This bit in particular:

First let's acknowledge that the U.S. medical system has serious problems. But the problems stem from departures from free-market principles. The system is riddled with tax manipulation, costly insurance mandates and bureaucratic interference. Most important, six out of seven health-care dollars are spent by third parties, which means that most consumers exercise no cost-consciousness. As Milton Friedman always pointed out, no one spends other people's money as carefully as he spends his own

.

I've tried to get some responses on this point about how "free-market forces" should work in health care, but so far haven't been too successful.

Anyone got an idea? I mean apart from the usual sloganeering about "socialised" medicine.

IMO, this is the problem with free market principles in the health insurance industry. Free market principles lead to consolidation. This is evident in the states now. The only reason that it is not evident throughout the country is that each state regulates it's own insurance industry. The combination of the two is why you find a single company controlling 90% of the insurance industry in a given state. Once that consolidation occurs (monopoly), the insurance company has the population at their mercy. They can charge whatever they wish to charge, pay which claims they choose to pay, and deny coverage to anyone they wish to deny coverage to.

The problem with the current bill is that it doesn't recognize this and thus has nothing in it to increase competition so we're still on the same path we were on prior to the bill. Some wanted a public option to serve this function. Since that is down the tubes, there is nothing to break up the monopolistic behavior that we see in the insurance industry.

 

[namvet]

when I retired my ins premimum was 81 bucks a month. full coverage !!!!!!

 

[Samson]

Tort reform is a matter for the states. That's where malpractice laws are written.

Oh?

Then why isn't healthcare reform a state issue?

Because heath care reform is something that spans state boundaries, you know, interstate commerce. Something the federal government has the right and responsibility to regulate according to the constitution.

Gimme a break: Feds can liberally expand the "responsiblity" of the federal government to include mandating health insurance, but not mandating protection for healthcare providers from frivolous lawsuits?

Cherry Picking Much?

Your's is the typical response of Lawyers making Money For Lawyers to interpret Laws For Lawyers