Why Judaism and Christianity reject Koran

[Bigmo]

Its all about Jesus

There has been many discussions by Jews and Christians regarding the Koran. In recent times there has been an emphasis on Koran and violence and Koran and freedom and Koran and women. Although I have dealt with the issue of violence and freedom in my other posts, I will talk about another issue which I think is absolutely crucial in understanding why the Jews and Christians can never accept the Koran. There are of cource many other reasons why people question the Koran, and certainly in the history and current reality of many adherents of the so called Islamic faith do raise issues regarding frredom and women and violence. But my main concern is about these two religious traditions and why the real issues that seperate them from the Koran are rarely highlited.

Though these two religions reject each other and are odds with one another but they do have one thing in common regarding the Koran. My purpose here is to explain the role of Jesus in shaping the attitude these two religioons have regarding the Koran.

Those who pay attention can notice that there is constant attempt by Christians, and here I mean the orthodoxy, to paint Islam as somehow different from either Christianity or even Judaism. Muhammad is never compared with any of the prophets you read in the Bible. There is always an attempt even to distance themselves from the God of the Koran. The reality is these differences they try to propagate are fakes. Because the real difference and point of contention between the Koran and these two religions is on what they believe about Jesus and what the Koran says about Jesus. Both these religious traditions could never accept the Jesus reality as presented in the Koran. Once again these are not the only issues, but as a Koranist who does not confirm to Sunni/Shia sectarianism, my intention is to highlight their rejection of the Koran. I will show how regardless of any other issues, the Jesus of the Koran stand in stark contradiction to the central theological core of these two faiths, Judaism and Christianity as practiced and understood by the orthodoxies.

The Koran says it came to confirm the previous scriptures:

5.46. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God.

"It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3).

2.41 And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

2.89 And when there comes to them a Book from God, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognized, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of God is on those without Faith.

If the Koran came to confirm the Torah and Gospel and speaks of them as Divine revelations, why would both the Jews and Christians have a serious problem with the Koran? The answer is Jesus.

The Christian orthodoxy is built around the divinity of Jesus, and the Jewsih orthodoxy is built on the awaiting of the Messiah and their rejection of Jesus as the Messiah and indeed of his miraculous birth. Although these are not the only issues the orthodoxies are structured around, without them the orthodoxy can not maintain itself as it is.

So what does the Koran say about Jesus?

When the angel said, "Mary, God gives you a good tidings of a Word from Him whose name is messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, -high honoured shall he be in this world and the next, near stationed to God. He shall speak to men in the cradle, and of age, and righteous he shall be, "lord" said Mary "How shall I have a son, seeing no mortal has touched me? "Even so, he said "God creates what He will". When he decrees a thing He but say to it, "Be", and it is. (Al-Imran 3:45-47)

"Then she brought the child to her folk, carrying him, and they said, "Mary, you have surely committed a monstrous thing. Sister of Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, nor your mother a woman unchaste. Mary pointed to the child; but they said, 'Hoe shall we speak to one who still in the cradle, a little child. And he said, 'Lo, I am God's servant, God has given me the Book and made me a Prophet Blessed He has made me ,wherever/may be; and He has enjoined me to prayer, and to give the alms so long as I live, and likewise to cherish my mother; He has not made me arrogant and wicked. Peace be upon me, the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I am raised up alive. "Maryam 19:29-33)

5.110.Then will God say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'

This will be absolutely rejected by the Jewish Rabbis. This not only confirms the miraculous birth of Jesus but also confirms he was the awaited messiah as promised in the Hebrew Bible. The Jews rejected Jesus and still do and these verses alone are more than enough to convince the Judaic orthodoxy to reject the Koran outright. Nothing stands against the Judaic orthodoxy more than these verses.

As far as the Christian orthodoxy:


"And they say, The All-Merciful has taken unto Himself a son. You have indeed advanced something hideous. As if the skies are about to burst, the earth to split asunder and its mountain to fall down in the utter ruin for that they have attributed to the All-merciful a son; and behaves not the All-merciful to take a son. None there in the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant" (Maryam 19:88-93)

Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight is as Adam's likeness; He created him of dust, then He said upon him, 'Be' and he was. (Al-Imran 3:59)

People of the Book, do not go beyond the bounds in your religion, and say nought as to God but the Truth. The messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the messenger of God, and his word that he committed to Mary, and a spirit originating from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not 'Three'. Refrain, better is for you. God is only one God. Glory be to him-that He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the Heavens and in the Earth; God suffices for a guardian.(4.171)

This is of course in stark contrast and indeed a denounciation of the Christian orthodoxy which is structured on the divinity of Jesus and the Trinity. These verses alone completely nullifies that orthodoxy in its core theological understanding.

So both these religions can not accept that Jesus was the awaited Messiah born of a miraculous nature but yet human and completely unassociated physically with the Almighty. Yet these issues are never discussed and distractions are usually presented. of course these are not the only issues since Islam has a sectarian component as represented by the Sunni/Shia religions which rely on oral traditions, known as hadiths, that dominate their religions and in many cases contradict the Koran. But the verses I presented today I am sure will clearly indicate that the verses about Jesus in the Koran by itself is enough for the Judiac and Christian orthodoxy to reject the Koran outright.

So there you have it.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Im not going to waste my time refuting this garbage with Islamic Scripture unless I am specifically asked to.

 

[editec]

Religions do not reject each other.

People of faith reject religions other than their own.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You have just demonstrated your massive ignorance. I do not even need to think to prove you wrong, anyone over the age of 2 could do it.

The Jews do not believe Jesus was a prophet, which is why they reject Christianity entirely. Jews and Christians do not believe Muhammad was a prophet, which is why they reject Islam.

It is not about Jesus, it is about Muhammad.

Children should be seen and not heard.

 

[Hister]

Why Judaism and Christianity reject Koran: They prefer to use toilet paper.

 

[rhet 2]

You have just demonstrated your massive ignorance. I do not even need to think to prove you wrong, anyone over the age of 2 could do it.

The Jews do not believe Jesus was a prophet, which is why they reject Christianity entirely. Jews and Christians do not believe Muhammad was a prophet, which is why they reject Islam.

It is not about Jesus, it is about Muhammad.

Children should be seen and not heard.

Point well taken, IMO.

Except that I think it IS about Jesus AND about Mo AND about the rabbis who wrote Oral Torah in contradiction to Written Torah -- Jewish traditions dictated by the Sanhedrin and men who claimed the authority of priests vs. the written text itself: who do we believe? Three sets of claimed authority -- and they DO contradict each other -- so which one of those claims do we accept and adhere to?

When Christ asked Peter, Who do you say I am, the answer to that question is the ROCK upon which all Christians must stand. That is the chasm that separates us as surely as the uncrossable chasm between the Bosom of Abraham and the waterless desert of despair in Sheol.

I can no more accept Mo as a prophet -- because he contradicts Christ's own self-proclaimed deity AND His humanity -- commanding that which is FORBIDDEN by Christ WHO IS GOD -- than I could fall on my face and worship Satan.

I can no more accept the teachings of the rabbis -- which DO contradict Written Torah -- than I can accept the teachings of Mo.

From Gen. 1:1 through the last jot and tittle on the last page of Malachi, that is the Word of God Himself. God is not a liar, not a cheat, not a deceiver and not a trickster, nor a con artist -- nor is he a weakling that just cannot stop crap from happening. He MUST be the Truth -- because what GOD says BECOMES the Truth -- and He must have the power to open human eyes and REVEAL His Truth to all mankind so that we CAN understand enough of the truth to accept and submit to His Supremacy.

No contradictions in the Word of GOD. Because what HE speaks happens, what HE speaks IS THE TRUTH.

So, the question then is how do I come to understand HIS TRUTH?

Everything from Gen.1:1 to Malachi 4:3 speaks to a single TRUTH -- there will be a King of Judea -- he must be GOD Himself (for example, Zephaniah 3:15, "The LORD has taken away your judgments, he has cast out your enemy, the King of Israel, the LORD, in the midst of you: you shall not see evil any more") and he MUST be a direct blood heir of David at one and the same time. Because that is His Claim to the Throne of God, to rule over all humanity and all things physical in this universe.

The second Mo proclaimed himself a greater prophet than the WORD of GOD HIMSELF, he proclaimed himself a liar, a cheat, a manipulator and twister of the truth to deceive men into worshiping that which is FALSE and condemned by the God Who spoke to Abraham and gave Moses TRUTH written -- WRITTEN -- by the Hand of the ONE Who IS, WAS, and ever SHALL BE the Almighty Creator and Ruler over the reality of this universe.

"I am the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life: no man comes unto the Father except through Me." This is the divider between Judaism and Islam and Christianity.

Who do we say Jesus is?

 

[jillian]

You have just demonstrated your massive ignorance. I do not even need to think to prove you wrong, anyone over the age of 2 could do it.

The Jews do not believe Jesus was a prophet, which is why they reject Christianity entirely. Jews and Christians do not believe Muhammad was a prophet, which is why they reject Islam.

It is not about Jesus, it is about Muhammad.

Children should be seen and not heard.

Jesus has nothing to do with judaism at all.

(yes, i'm agreeing with you).

 

[rhet 2]

You have just demonstrated your massive ignorance. I do not even need to think to prove you wrong, anyone over the age of 2 could do it.

The Jews do not believe Jesus was a prophet, which is why they reject Christianity entirely. Jews and Christians do not believe Muhammad was a prophet, which is why they reject Islam.

It is not about Jesus, it is about Muhammad.

Children should be seen and not heard.

Jesus has nothing to do with judaism at all.

(yes, i'm agreeing with you).

Disagree respectfully.

Jesus is the fulfillment and completion -- the perfection of Judaism.

Because He IS, Judaism is no longer required, no longer relevant in the real world, post-Resurrection.

He completes the Law, fulfills the Law, IS the Law, ergo the Law is completed, it's purpose achieved -- past tense, over and done with.

 

[jillian]

You have just demonstrated your massive ignorance. I do not even need to think to prove you wrong, anyone over the age of 2 could do it.

The Jews do not believe Jesus was a prophet, which is why they reject Christianity entirely. Jews and Christians do not believe Muhammad was a prophet, which is why they reject Islam.

It is not about Jesus, it is about Muhammad.

Children should be seen and not heard.

Jesus has nothing to do with judaism at all.

(yes, i'm agreeing with you).

Disagree respectfully.

Jesus is the fulfillment and completion -- the perfection of Judaism.

Because He IS, Judaism is no longer required, no longer relevant in the real world, post-Resurrection.

He completes the Law, fulfills the Law, IS the Law.

not to us, he doesn't. he didn't fulfill the prophesies.

the reasons for judaism rejecting islam have nothing to do with your own religious beliefs.

judaism doesn't need perfecting by what YOU believe.

you don't see a problem with what you just said?

see.,... this is why i have no patience for your brand of christian.

 

[rhet 2]

Jesus has nothing to do with judaism at all.

(yes, i'm agreeing with you).

Disagree respectfully.

Jesus is the fulfillment and completion -- the perfection of Judaism.

Because He IS, Judaism is no longer required, no longer relevant in the real world, post-Resurrection.

He completes the Law, fulfills the Law, IS the Law.

not to us, he doesn't. he didn't fulfill the prophesies.

the reasons for judaism rejecting islam have nothing to do with your own religious beliefs.

judaism doesn't need perfecting by what YOU believe.

you don't see a problem with what you just said?

see.,... this is why i have no patience for your brand of christian.

Those who reject, reject. It is their choice, protected by the ONE Who Is.

It is not what I believe that Judaism rejects. Judaism rejects the claims of Jesus. Regardless of my acceptance or my rejection. My acceptance does NOT affect others. And acceptance does not validate the claims of Jesus. Rejection does not invalidate the claims of Jesus, either.

If it were a matter of personal acceptance or rejection, so that popularity -- the numbers of people who accept or reject -- COULD dethrone the Christ, then He is NOT the Christ at all.

It is NOT the word of man that puts Christ on His Throne. It is the Word of God that validates or invalidates the word of man -- and it is HIS WORD that puts Him on that Throne. My acceptance or rejection CANNOT affect HIS WORD at all.

Because my acceptance or rejection is a non-issue.

The issue is HIS acceptance or rejection of me -- not mine of Him.

Shall I center my existence on the words of men -- or shall I center my existence on the WORD of the LORD?

Shall I trust in men -- or shall I trust in the LORD?

"What is man that YOU are mindful of him?"

And WHAT is beyond the Will of GOD that whatever He SPEAKS shall not become as HE wills?

If I am wrong, is HE not able and willing to correct me and lead me to the Paths of Righteousness which I seek?

 

[jillian]

you can spout all you want...

but what you believe has NOTHING whatsoever to do with why jews don't accept jesus. the reason for that is we think your book is wrong. i have a hundred historical reasons for WHY I believe for book is wrong. The difference is that I don't care what you believe. I think G-d understands all religions and I don't think he'd reject any of his children who try to do good.

you, of course, feel that your beliefs are superior to mine.

well, let me give you a hint about the world... EVERYONE who doesn't believe what you do thinks their beliefs are superior to YOURS... or they would believe what you do.

it is pure rudeness and arrogance for you to think otherwise.

and let me give you another hint... there is nothing but your own belief that posits in favor of the superior nature of those beliefs.

all i can tell you is that before the messiah comes, the temple has to be rebuilt.

and AFTER he comes, there is supposed to be peace for a thousand years.

let me know when either of those things happen.

mmmmkay?

 

[rhet 2]

you can spout all you want...

but what you believe has NOTHING whatsoever to do with why jews don't accept jesus. the reason for that is we think your book is wrong. i have a hundred historical reasons for WHY I believe for book is wrong. The difference is that I don't care what you believe. I think G-d understands all religions and I don't think he'd reject any of his children who try to do good.

you, of course, feel that your beliefs are superior to mine.

well, let me give you a hint about the world... EVERYONE who doesn't believe what you do thinks their beliefs are superior to YOURS... or they would believe what you do.

it is pure rudeness and arrogance for you to think otherwise.

and let me give you another hint... there is nothing but your own belief that posits in favor of the superior nature of those beliefs.

all i can tell you is that before the messiah comes, the temple has to be rebuilt.

and AFTER he comes, there is supposed to be peace for a thousand years.

let me know when either of those things happen.

mmmmkay?

Actually, I don't think my beliefs are superior to yours at all.

As Isaiah said, "All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags -- used menstrual cloths" -- no way in hell I can EARN His acceptance and approval -- I do NOT deserve His acceptance, since everything I touch is polluted and contaminated by my own total lack of perfection.

And that does, yes, include my understanding of the WORD of GOD. Which of us KNOWS the Truth, the WHOLE Truth, and NOTHING BUT the Truth? Which of us is NOT partially blind, seeing in a mirror darkly, images of ourselves clouding and partially obscuring the IMAGE OF GOD?

Was Abraham perfect and without flaws that YHWH should honor him? Or did YHWH honor Abraham DESPITE his sins?

Was David perfect and without flaws that YHWH should honor him? Or did YHWH honor David DESPITE his sins?

"Who is man that YOU should be mindful of him?"

Why should YHWH honor any of us, hear our cries in the Wilderness, deliver us from the evils of this world?

It is because of HIS CHARACTER -- Who HE is -- not because of who or what we are -- not because of anything we do or do not do -- HIS BEING, not ours.

My beliefs are irrelevant -- and flawed.

So are yours.

It is what GOD believes that matters. Because HE ALONE sees the Truth -- and IS THE TRUTH. That which conforms to HIS ESSENCE is the Truth. That which does NOT conform to HIS ESSENCE is false and deceptive.

 

[Hister]

So Isaiah was obsessed with used kotex pads?
What about used up condoms?
Full Depends?

 

[rhet 2]

So Isaiah was obsessed with used kotex pads?
What about used up condoms?
Full Depends?

Didn't know any of our modern technologies, I'm afraid. Tough, huh?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You have just demonstrated your massive ignorance. I do not even need to think to prove you wrong, anyone over the age of 2 could do it.

The Jews do not believe Jesus was a prophet, which is why they reject Christianity entirely. Jews and Christians do not believe Muhammad was a prophet, which is why they reject Islam.

It is not about Jesus, it is about Muhammad.

Children should be seen and not heard.

Jesus has nothing to do with judaism at all.

(yes, i'm agreeing with you).

Disagree respectfully.

Jesus is the fulfillment and completion -- the perfection of Judaism.

Because He IS, Judaism is no longer required, no longer relevant in the real world, post-Resurrection.

He completes the Law, fulfills the Law, IS the Law, ergo the Law is completed, it's purpose achieved -- past tense, over and done with.

She is actually correct. Jesus has nothing to do with Judaism, as it exists today. He fulfilled the law as it was given to Moses, which is why the veil in the Temple was torn asunder. The requirement of sacrifice was done away with, and our high priest entered into the Holy of Holies for all time. Judaism today does not follow that law of sacrifice, so Jesus has nothing to do with it.

I will leave it for Jewish scholars to explain how Judaism deals with the fact that they cannot follow their religion, it is not an area I have studied extensively.

 

[Bigmo]

Jews rejected Jesus cause Jesus rejected tha authority of the Talmud. Jesus was a Torah firster.

Christians rejected Muhammad because the Koran rejected the Trinity. The Koran is a Gospel firster.

Muslims reject the Koranist because the Koranist reject the Sunnah. Koranist are Koran firsters.

Torah, Gospel and Koran is from God.

Talmud, Trinity and Sunnah is from man. So who do you trust?

Because of that I accept all scriptures since I follow God and not man. Hence:

If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: But many of them follow a course that is evil. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 69)

Say: "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord...." (Surah 5, Al Ma'idah, verse 68)

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Jews rejected Jesus cause Jesus rejected tha authority of the Talmud. Jesus was a Torah firster.

WTF?

Christians rejected Muhammad because the Koran rejected the Trinity. The Koran is a Gospel firster.

The Koran rejects the Gospel, which is why Christians reject it.

Muslims reject the Koranist because the Koranist reject the Sunnah. Koranist are Koran firsters.

Torah, Gospel and Koran is from God.

The Qur'an is the deranged ravings of a schizoid epileptic.

Talmud, Trinity and Sunnah is from man. So who do you trust?

Not you.

Because of that I accept all scriptures since I follow God and not man. Hence:

If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: But many of them follow a course that is evil. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 69)

Say: "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord...." (Surah 5, Al Ma'idah, verse 68)

As I said before, the Koran specifically rejects the Gospel. Since that is a simple fact, you are obviously either a liar, or deluded. or both.

My vote is the third option.

 

[Bigmo]

Jews rejected Jesus cause Jesus rejected tha authority of the Talmud. Jesus was a Torah firster.

WTF?

Christians rejected Muhammad because the Koran rejected the Trinity. The Koran is a Gospel firster.

The Koran rejects the Gospel, which is why Christians reject it.







The Qur'an is the deranged ravings of a schizoid epileptic.

Talmud, Trinity and Sunnah is from man. So who do you trust?

Not you.

Because of that I accept all scriptures since I follow God and not man. Hence:

If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: But many of them follow a course that is evil. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 69)

Say: "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord...." (Surah 5, Al Ma'idah, verse 68)

As I said before, the Koran specifically rejects the Gospel. Since that is a simple fact, you are obviously either a liar, or deluded. or both.

My vote is the third option.

And why would you say the Koran rejects the Gospel?

You need to seek some more knowledge. The Koran rejected the Trinity(divinity of Jesus) which is not the same as rejecting the Gospel. A better idea is:

What does the Gospel say about Jesus's divinity. Maybe you think or assume that the Trinity is based on the teachings of the Gospel.

 

[rhet 2]

Jews rejected Jesus cause Jesus rejected tha authority of the Talmud. Jesus was a Torah firster.

WTF?



The Koran rejects the Gospel, which is why Christians reject it.







The Qur'an is the deranged ravings of a schizoid epileptic.



Not you.

Because of that I accept all scriptures since I follow God and not man. Hence:

If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: But many of them follow a course that is evil. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 69)

Say: "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord...." (Surah 5, Al Ma'idah, verse 68)

As I said before, the Koran specifically rejects the Gospel. Since that is a simple fact, you are obviously either a liar, or deluded. or both.

My vote is the third option.

And why would you say the Koran rejects the Gospel?

You need to seek some more knowledge. The Koran rejected the Trinity(divinity of Jesus) which is not the same as rejecting the Gospel. A better idea is:

What does the Gospel say about Jesus's divinity. Maybe you think or assume that the Trinity is based on the teachings of the Gospel.

First, the ENTIRE first five books of Torah -- not Talmud, which are the interpretations by MEN of Torah -- but the WRITTEN Word of God -- are the Law of Moses -- not just the Ten Commandments -- which Mohammed constantly VIOLATED AND DEFIED -- but the ENTIRE Pentateuch.

So, when Genesis describes the first sin, that is Adam and Eve, Eve who believed a lie and DOUBTED the Word of the LORD, so that she defied His commandment -- and Adam who chose EVE and sought the knowledge and the power to make himself a god equal to the Most High, not one of His created beings subject to the authority and power of HIS LAW, not the laws of man.

And, second, the crime of Cain: his FIRST defiance was offering a sacrifice from his own production -- what he grew, what he produced -- God alone creates life, all life -- mankind can tend the garden, is CURSED with feeding himself by the sweat of his own body to encourage fruits and vegetables and fight always against thorns (plants grown out of control to destroy instead of feed the earth) -- and shelter, protect, feed the animals -- but man CANNOT create a living breathing animal -- we cannot breathe into a lamb that which makes it a lamb and not a thorn bush -- ONLY WHAT GOD CREATES can be the blood sacrifice REQUIRED for atonement for our own death-locked imperfections and flaws which drive the HOLY ONE from our presence -- just as He walked with Adam in the Garden before Adam's rebellion, and then Adam, seeing his own hellish corruption, RAN FROM GOD and could NOT endure the Perfection of God -- so God killed the first animal -- GOD HIMSELF made the first sacrifice of purification so that Adam and Eve could endure HIS PRESENCE with them -- BLOOD SACRIFICE so that men, covered by the skin of an INNOCENT LIFE that only GOD could create, could hear the Words of the LORD. So, too, should Cain have known and done so that his own prayers could be heard by the LORD -- for this is the LAW, the WILL of the ONE WHO IS -- HIS decree, not the ways of men -- for man must submit to the WILL of God -- and God does NOT submit to the ways of men to accept what man decrees -- and Abel obeyed the LAW of God -- Cain defied it and demanded that God submit to Cain's will -- and then was angered when the LORD refused, honoring Abel's submission while scorning Cain's defiance and insistence on his own whims and wishes instead.

Again and again and again throughout the Pentateuch, BLOOD SACRIFICE is required -- an innocent life created ONLY by God is MANDATORY by the decrees of God -- where in the koran is such a commandment both made and then honored?

Second, and MOST IMPORTANT, is the Ark of the Covenant -- the most sacred and holy physical anything in the Word of God, the Pentateuch -- and inside that Ark are the tablets of the Law written by the Hand of God Himself and handed to Moses -- even while the sons of Jacob rebelled and worshiped an idol made of gold so that they should be FOREVER excluded from His blessings, the Land He gave to Abraham, then gave to ISAAC (NOT to Ishmael, the false son, who was NOT the son promised by God, but AGAIN, human work to create a substitute for what God ALONE could do -- just as Cain offered God human produce instead of the work that God ALONE can do, create a living breathing life) -- and integral to the Ark of the Covenant is the COMMAND that no human hand should EVER touch it, lest that hand defile and corrupt what GOD ALSO INDWELT.

And integral to the Ark of the Covenant is a priesthood to serve that Ark, to offer the MANDATORY sacrifices of INNOCENT LIFE DEMANDED by the HOLY ONE -- and that priesthood -- by GOD'S DECREE -- must be direct male descendants of Aaron -- JEWS not Arabs -- and not just any Jew -- direct male descendants of ONE JEW, Aaron, the brother of Moses. This is the ONLY priesthood accepted by the God of Abraham -- and they alone are COMMANDED to perform the sacrifices of innocent life created by God ALONE.

Where in the koran is the Ark of the Covenant even mentioned, much less the sacrifices commanded? Where is the priesthood of the Levite descendants of Abraham, Isaac,and Jacob COMMANDED to make those sacrifices which God DEMANDS?

No, as Cain tried to substitute his own words and his own will for the LAW OF GOD, and demanded that God submit to Cain's demands, so too does the Koran and so also did Mohammed -- Mohammed's way, NOT GOD'S COMMANDMENTS.

I've read the koran -- and it TWISTS the Pentateuch all to shreds -- INVERTS and makes a total perversion of the Pentateuch written by Moses at the command of God.

From the omission of the blood sacrifice REQUIRED of all mankind to the perversion of Ishmael as the son of promise when THE WORD OF GOD curses Ishmael and HONORS Isaac, the koran teaches the EXACT OPPOSITE of Torah. It DEFIES the Word of GOD in every detail, again and again and again.

The entire focus of the Gospels is that Christ IS GOD and HE ALONE is the Lamb of God, the blood sacrifice DEMANDED by God as the basis of forgiveness and acceptance with God -- AND He is also the Covenant sworn to Abraham, then sworn again to ISAAC and not to Ishmael, and then sworn again to JACOB WHO IS ISRAEL.

Without the Lamb of God, there IS NO ACCEPTANCE with God -- and that is the Gospel, that Christ is the FINAL PERPETUAL SACRIFICE demanded by God of that which God alone can create.

The koran DEFIES the Gospels too.

Without the blood sacrifice in the Holy of Holies sprinkled on the horns of the Ark of the Covenant -- without the blood sacrifice DEMANDED and performed by Abel, defied by Cain, THERE IS NO ACCEPTANCE with God.

The works and produce of men IS NOT ACCEPTABLE -- only the sacrifice of perfect innocent life created ONLY by God can bring men into a condition where we can endure the Presence of God in our lives so that we may now in soul and later in body walk with Him as Adam did before Adam defied the Law of God. No prayers, no words, no good deeds, no self-righteous conformity to the demands of a mere man can substitute for the Blood Sacrifice demanded by God.

 

[CMike]

You have just demonstrated your massive ignorance. I do not even need to think to prove you wrong, anyone over the age of 2 could do it.

The Jews do not believe Jesus was a prophet, which is why they reject Christianity entirely. Jews and Christians do not believe Muhammad was a prophet, which is why they reject Islam.

It is not about Jesus, it is about Muhammad.

Children should be seen and not heard.

Point well taken, IMO.

Except that I think it IS about Jesus AND about Mo AND about the rabbis who wrote Oral Torah in contradiction to Written Torah -- Jewish traditions dictated by the Sanhedrin and men who claimed the authority of priests vs. the written text itself: who do we believe? Three sets of claimed authority -- and they DO contradict each other -- so which one of those claims do we accept and adhere to?

You have an utter lack of understanding of Judaism.

Both the oral and written torah were given by G-D to Moses on Mt. Sinai. The oral torah explains how to implement the written torah.

And no they don't contradict each other.

When Christ asked Peter, Who do you say I am, the answer to that question is the ROCK upon which all Christians must stand. That is the chasm that separates us as surely as the uncrossable chasm between the Bosom of Abraham and the waterless desert of despair in Sheol.

You see that is the problem in your religion. Your "rock" is a man, a false god, Jews believe in the one and only G-D.

Your god contradicts my G-D.


Hear O Israel, the L-rd is our G-D, the L-ord is ONE (Deut)
I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from Me there is no God. ...so that from the rising of the Sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:5-6)

...I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. (Isaiah, 46:9)

... so that all the peoples of the Earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other. (1 Kings, 8:60)

Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the Earth; for I am God, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:22)

This is what the Lord says…"Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other God." (Isaiah, 45:14)

...The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (Deuteronomy, 6:4)

... O Lord; no deeds can compare with Yours. All the nations You have made will come and worship before You, O Lord; they will bring glory to Your name. For You are great and do marvelous deeds; You alone are God. (Psalms, 86:8-10)

O Lord ...You alone are God over all the kingdoms of the Earth. You have made heaven and Earth. (Isaiah, 37:16)

... all kingdoms on Earth may know that You alone, O Lord, are God. (Isaiah, 37:20)

This is what the Lord says—your Redeemer, Who formed you in the womb: I am the Lord, Who has made all things, Who alone stretched out the heavens, Who spread out the Earth by Myself. (Isaiah, 44:24)

Since ancient times no one has heard, no ear has perceived, no eye has seen any God besides You, who acts on behalf of those who wait for Him. (Isaiah, 64:4)

For this is what the Lord says—He Who created the heavens, He is God; He Who fashioned and made the Earth, He founded it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—He says: "I am the Lord, and there is no other." (Isaiah, 45:18)

...Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no god apart from Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but Me. (Isaiah, 45:21)

See now that I Myself am He! There is no god besides Me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal... (Deuteronomy, 32:39)

...you may know there is no one like the Lord our God. (Exodus, 8:10)

O Lord... there is no god like You in heaven above or on Earth below... (1 Kings, 8:23; 2 Chronicles, 6:14)

Then Asa called to the Lord his God and said, "Lord, there is no one like You to help the powerless against the mighty..."(2 Chronicles, 14:11)

I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from Me there is no savior. (Isaiah, 43:11)

There is no one like You, O Lord, and there is no god but You, as we have heard with our own ears. (1 Chronicles, 17:20; 2 Samuel, 7:22)

There is no one holy like the Lord; there is no one besides You; there is no strength like our God. (1 Samuel, 2:2)

His wisdom is profound, His power is vast. Who has resisted Him and come out unscathed. (Job, 9:4)

For You are great and do marvelous deeds; You alone are God. (Psalms, 86:10)

Praise Him for His acts of power; praise Him for His surpassing greatness. (Psalms, 150:2)

You alone are the Lord. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the Earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship You. (Nehemiah, 9:6)

They will say of Me, "In the Lord alone are righteousness and strength."... (Isaiah, 45:24)

You were shown these things so that you might know that the Lord is God; besides Him there is no other. (Deuteronomy, 4:35)

... Is there any god besides Me? No, there is no other strong one; I know not one. (Isaiah, 44:8)

This is what the Lord says—I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no god. (Isaiah, 44:6)

Who has done this and carried it through, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, the Lord—with the first of them and with the last—I am He." (Isaiah, 41:4)

O Lord, are You not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One… (Habakkuk 1:12)

I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that men will revere Him. (Ecclesiastes, 3:14)

Before the mountains were born or You brought forth the Earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting You are God. (Psalms, 90:2)

Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever…(Psalms, 45:6)

For this is what the high and lofty One says—He Who lives forever, Whose name is holy...(Isaiah, 57:15)

and said: "Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever; wisdom and power are His." (Daniel, 2:20)

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end. (Ecclesiastes, 3:11)

…For He is the living God and He endures forever… His dominion will never end. (Daniel, 6:26)

Praise be to the Lord … from everlasting to everlasting… (1 Chronicles, 16:36)

But You, O Lord, are exalted forever. (Psalms, 92:8)

The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever. (Isaiah, 40:8)

I can no more accept Mo as a prophet -- because he contradicts Christ's own self-proclaimed deity AND His humanity -- commanding that which is FORBIDDEN by Christ WHO IS GOD -- than I could fall on my face and worship Satan.

Bingo!!!!. I can no more accept worshipping your god jesus, than I can worshipping a golden idol. Based on judaism there is no difference.

I can no more accept the teachings of the rabbis -- which DO contradict Written Torah -- than I can accept the teachings of Mo.

This is really annoying, how arrogant some of you people are.

You have not one iota of understanding of the Torah and Judaism, and yet you seem to annoint yourself the experts on it. As if you know more about it, than the jews who have lived it and studied it for thousands of years.

From Gen. 1:1 through the last jot and tittle on the last page of Malachi, that is the Word of God Himself. God is not a liar, not a cheat, not a deceiver and not a trickster, nor a con artist -- nor is he a weakling that just cannot stop crap from happening. He MUST be the Truth -- because what GOD says BECOMES the Truth -- and He must have the power to open human eyes and REVEAL His Truth to all mankind so that we CAN understand enough of the truth to accept and submit to His Supremacy.

Exactly right. And this is what G-D said.

I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from Me there is no God. ...so that from the rising of the Sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:5-6)

...I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. (Isaiah, 46:9)

... so that all the peoples of the Earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other. (1 Kings, 8:60)

Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the Earth; for I am God, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:22)


Yet you wish to call G-D a liar so you can worship your golden calf.

No contradictions in the Word of GOD. Because what HE speaks happens, what HE speaks IS THE TRUTH.

Exactly right. You wish to worship a false god.

So, the question then is how do I come to understand HIS TRUTH?

Everything from Gen.1:1 to Malachi 4:3 speaks to a single TRUTH -- there will be a King of Judea -- he must be GOD Himself (for example, Zephaniah 3:15, "The LORD has taken away your judgments, he has cast out your enemy, the King of Israel, the LORD, in the midst of you: you shall not see evil any more") and he MUST be a direct blood heir of David at one and the same time. Because that is His Claim to the Throne of God, to rule over all humanity and all things physical in this universe.

That is a sick perversion of jewish scripture.

The second Mo proclaimed himself a greater prophet than the WORD of GOD HIMSELF, he proclaimed himself a liar, a cheat, a manipulator and twister of the truth to deceive men into worshiping that which is FALSE and condemned by the God Who spoke to Abraham and gave Moses TRUTH written -- WRITTEN -- by the Hand of the ONE Who IS, WAS, and ever SHALL BE the Almighty Creator and Ruler over the reality of this universe.

"I am the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life: no man comes unto the Father except through Me." This is the divider between Judaism and Islam and Christianity.

Who do we say Jesus is?

You see this is heretical "I am the Way, the TRUTH, and the Life: no man comes unto the Father except through Me."

By doing this ludicrous statements jesus made himself no better than a golden calf.