Why Is Supporting Agriculture with Taxpayer Money Necessary?

[AllieBaba]

The original idea was good but today it just another corporate handout. I have to say though I would hate to see all farm land plowed under and housing and malls built. As a long distance cyclist I find development ugly.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-06-07-farm-subsidies_x.htm

Of course, and that means you should have a say in how people develop their own land.

FArmer's may "make" about as much as any working Joe, but remember their costs are astronomical.

And in order for us to make all the food that our welfare state demands (you know those handy food stamps? Say good bye to them if you cut out the subsidies) subsidies are necessary.

Think it out.

 

[Paulie]

The point, nibor, is that when you subsidize something, you create dependence. Prices are lowered in the sale market. Prices go up in the related industries (tractors, for example) because there is suddenly a massive infusion of cash. The problem is, most farmers have terrible business sense and know-how. If markets are allowed to be unfettered, you get better or you don't survive, allowing individuals to have the power. If the government monkeys with the controls, you can keep doing it wrong and the government will keep you afloat, making you dependant upon them, giving them more power.
I live in a generally conservative, agriculturally-based state. It's sad, however, because the small farmers are so buffaloed into thinking "I can't do it" they would never let the subsidies be taken from them and, hence, look to government to solve thier problems. The grandsons of sodbusters, looking for someone to do it for them. Pathetic.

This post sums up my sig line.

 

[AllieBaba]

Hmmmm....tell that to the farmers of Athena Oregon, which at one time had the highest per capita income in the United States.

Farmers are not hicks. My husband came from a long line of farmers; his mother was a lobbyist, he went to Stanford, and his father was a multimillionaire.

Before the city-dwelling environmentalists and moronic liberals chopped the feet out from under farmers, that is, and started insisting that certain lands be set aside as wetlands, and came up with laws forbidding farmers to develop/sell their land except in huge increments, and started taxing any and all improvements made to property and equipment, and disallowed building on farmlands.

To offset this, and the fact that they were insisting that we provide food for free to the poor, the downtrodden, the drug-addicted and criminal, they came up with the great idea of subsidies....that's the only way they could get these idiotic laws passed.

Shit on the farmers all you want. But kindly don't blame them for the pickle you've created yourself.

 

[nibor]

Of course, and that means you should have a say in how people develop their own land.

FArmer's may "make" about as much as any working Joe, but remember their costs are astronomical.

And in order for us to make all the food that our welfare state demands (you know those handy food stamps? Say good bye to them if you cut out the subsidies) subsidies are necessary.

Think it out.

We could feed you on a leveled playing field.......................without disgusting corporate/gubment methods and wall street created price restraints!!!!!!!!

And IF SOME actually create wealth REMEMBER WHERE IT STAYS AND WHOM IT BENEFITS......................


For some reason we are considered on the bottom of this nation's industrial base.....................that isn't true at all.....................but even if it was THERE'D BE NO TRUE FOUNDATION IF WE WERE GONE....................and they're trying their damnedest to make us go away!!!!!!!!!!!!

But if they do, corporate farms WILL NOT FEED YOU AS WELL OR CHEAPER.........................if you saw their methods and ethics it would make you sick AND WILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AllieBaba]

Is ENglish your first language? Because for the life of me, I can't make out what on earth you're saying.

Speaking of which, "incrememts" in my post is a typo which I shall correct this minute.

 

[nibor]

Is ENglish your first language? Because for the life of me, I can't make out what on earth you're saying.

Speaking of which, "incrememts" in my post is a typo which I shall correct this minute.

Yes it's my first language..................read it again..............I didn't tight ass your error!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AllieBaba]

It's not errors I'm tightassing. I can't see a coherent thought in the whole garbled passage.

 

[nibor]

Garbled.................well I guess we've had a failure to communicate?


Although I was not just making the statements to you................even though I did use your quote.

 

[AllieBaba]

I still can't quite grasp what you're saying.

But I will say I've been up close and personal to farming and it doesn't disgust me at all, nor are farmers stupid (far from it, they can't be, they have to navigate all the tax, land use, technical and scientific mumbo-jumbo...AND manage their mortgages).

I'm not sure exactly what "corporate" farming is, exactly, since in my part of the country "corporate" farms generally consist of a dad and his sons running the family farm. I do know that because they are forced to sell land only in huge parcels, generally the only people who can purchase the land are the incredibly wealthy.

But that's because we put the farmers in that position by the use of ridiculous restraints. Not because they're stupid or evil.

 

[trobinett]

when most of these "farmers" make more money in a year's time than ordinary wage earners. Just another example of a government program--one of many-- that has no oversight or accountability.

Old McDonald Had A Scam
By Brian M. Riedl, Boston Globe
March 19, 2008

Should taxpayers continue subsidizing millionaires? That's the question Congress is mulling over as it considers reauthorizing farm subsidies doled out by the Department of Agriculture.

for full article
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/e.../articles/2008/03/19/old_mcdonald_had_a_scam/

"Old McDonald feeds your sorry ass.

I do suppose you like to eat, and your children need food.

Don't stress over oil prices, stress over FOOD prices.

Even those that are limited in their thinking process should be able to figure out, that food is more important than OIL.

Its like taking candy from babies................

 

[nibor]

I still can't quite grasp what you're saying.

But I will say I've been up close and personal to farming and it doesn't disgust me at all, nor are farmers stupid (far from it, they can't be, they have to navigate all the tax, land use, technical and scientific mumbo-jumbo...AND manage their mortgages).

I'm not sure exactly what "corporate" farming is, exactly, since in my part of the country "corporate" farms generally consist of a dad and his sons running the family farm. I do know that because they are forced to sell land only in huge parcels, generally the only people who can purchase the land are the incredibly wealthy.

But that's because we put the farmers in that position by the use of ridiculous restraints. Not because they're stupid or evil.

You've never seen corporate dairy farms where the cows NEVER see the light of day or eat a blade of grass and are moved only from feed stall to milking stall their whole damned lives INDOORS.............or chicken and turkey farms where they're packed in so tight they hold each other up..........or pigs stacked in cages.................... they actually give PETA a reason to exist!!!!!

The corporate crop farms aren't much better, in the mid West they've cut down the tree lines that saved their soil from wind erosion so they can spray herb and pestacides easier and the soil just blows away..............

The mexicans in Calif. want to unionize because of all the sickness and infirmities they're picking up from "innocuous sprays" the corporations are able to sneak in with official channels and special exemptions and treatment that corporations are allowed, while they the workers recieve mistreatment.

If the small family farmer ever treated our animals, land and workers like corporations do we'd be arrested................

Right down the the road from me one of these "dairy farms" and I use the term extremely litely, that uses NOTHING but illegal immigrants as help, KILLED a river (The Black River) with a massive 3.5 million gallon manure spill, over 450,000 fish were killed, BIG pike, sm mouth bass, walleyes, trout, everything was killed.......................they got a $365,000 fine payable over five years................I or anyone else would've been put in prison

 

[nibor]

"Old McDonald feeds your sorry ass.

I do suppose you like to eat, and your children need food.

Don't stress over oil prices, stress over FOOD prices.

Even those that are limited in their thinking process should be able to figure out, that food is more important than OIL.

Its like taking candy from babies................

Well you damned well better be stressing over those oil prices too..................because the "trickle down effect" relates DIRECTLY TO EVERYTHING YOU EAT, AND DO TO EXIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pegwinn]

For those who think farmers are stupid...... they are not. Around here most of the farmers have dual degrees in Ag and Business. They might talk slow and have a drawl......

I could give a crap about most lazy humans. But cruelty to animals enrages me. I'm surprised to learn that the assembly line process is allowed. I did some googling after reading that post. All I can say is that for a change I agree with PETA on something.

Oil v. Food has to be the dumbest argument yet. The price of oil literally influences the totality of civilisation. It trickles down to fuel prices. The price of diesel literally influences everything.

Like it or not, a single family farm cannot compete with a corporate mega farm. It is just like a local craftsman trying to compete with wal marts mass produced stuff.

 

[nibor]

For those who think farmers are stupid...... they are not. Around here most of the farmers have dual degrees in Ag and Business. They might talk slow and have a drawl......

I could give a crap about most lazy humans. But cruelty to animals enrages me. I'm surprised to learn that the assembly line process is allowed. I did some googling after reading that post. All I can say is that for a change I agree with PETA on something.

Oil v. Food has to be the dumbest argument yet. The price of oil literally influences the totality of civilisation. It trickles down to fuel prices. The price of diesel literally influences everything.

Like it or not, a single family farm cannot compete with a corporate mega farm. It is just like a local craftsman trying to compete with wal marts mass produced stuff.

I'm glad someone can appreciate the plight of us small farmers..................but until you realize what the implications of this kind of disgusting premise and practice is, nothing will get done about it because it's been going on for WAY TO LONG!!!!!!!

For one thing, every cent that corporate farming saves you, you'll need to spend else where to be healthy, doctors, drugs to ward off the sickness and infirmities you're picking up, the extra food you have to eat to make up for what these methods steal from you and deprive you of VITAMIN AND MINERAL WISE, so it goes MUCH MUCH DEEPER!!!!!

Do you know why E-coli is getting into our food chain..................BECAUSE THE COWS ARE COVERED IN THEIR OWN AND OTHERS SHIT AND THEY'RE STILL MILKING THEM.................you need to actually SEE IT CLOSE UP...................this operation by me has FIVE THOUSAND HEAD UNDER ROOF AT ALL TIMES..............in stalls so small they can't even move around............the cows can't go out to clean themselves off which is a natural process.........it's criminal!

Because they can't move around, they lose their muscle tone so they have to hit them up with BGH which transfers directly to you.......................they're not out in the sun eating grasses(that's where the natural vitamin D in your milk comes from) so they have to ADD IT ARTIFICIALLY/CHEMICALLY!!!!!

Do you drink 2% or skim milk because you think your saving some weight gain...........well let me tell you, YOUR NOT..............a calf can't stay alive THREE WEEKS DRINKING THAT SHIT......................it's basically pigmented water and nutrientless.....................

AND THAT'S ONLY COWS AND MILK, it get's worse.....................when I HAVE MORE TIME I'll bring the rest of this horror story that you've been lead by the nose to believe is good for you and it runs the ENTIRE GAMBIT OF CORPORATE OPERATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CharlestonChad]

To answer the title, I guess the simple answer is that we need to assure a food supply no matter what, and that if we don't subsidize agriculture then we might become too dependent on foreign food supplies.


That's that answer I heard Guilliani give, and it made sense to me.

 

[nibor]

To answer the title, I guess the simple answer is that we need to assure a food supply no matter what, and that if we don't subsidize agriculture then we might become too dependent on foreign food supplies.



That's that answer I heard Guilliani give, and it made sense to me.

BUT are you willing to subsidize
this.................http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0403240261mar24,1,1855420.story?coll=chi-news-hed

I've personally seen worse...............there was no picture taking allowed!!!!

 

[Paulie]

But I will say I've been up close and personal to farming

Yeah yeah yeah. You've been up close and personal to farming, up close and personal to abortion clinics, up close and personal to economics, up close and personal to kidney disease...you're the veritable expert on EVERYTHING that you have an opinion on around here.

It's always your reasoning for your opinion..."I know about this subject personally, I used to be involved with it".

Fucking shut the fuck up already.

 

[ronpaul2008]

The farm subsidies I am aware of are not to make prices lower as was mentioned here, but to make prices higher. The government actually pays farmers to not farm their land. The reasoning behind it as explained to me is that if all farmers farmed their land and there was a bumper crop then we would have more food then people could eat and prices would be so cheap the farmers would lose money.

I oppose subsidies on principle, and doubt they help at all. If too much food is produced we can export it or use it for biofuel.

 

[Adam's Apple]

"Old McDonald feeds your sorry ass.

I do suppose you like to eat, and your children need food.

Don't stress over oil prices, stress over FOOD prices.

Even those that are limited in their thinking process should be able to figure out, that food is more important than OIL.

Its like taking candy from babies................

Did you even read the article? Do you even know what the article is about? Can we assume that you are in favor of the government supporting millionaire corporate famers with our tax dollars for no good discernible reason?