Why Is Supporting Agriculture with Taxpayer Money Necessary?

[Adam's Apple]

when most of these "farmers" make more money in a year's time than ordinary wage earners. Just another example of a government program--one of many-- that has no oversight or accountability.

Old McDonald Had A Scam
By Brian M. Riedl, Boston Globe
March 19, 2008

Should taxpayers continue subsidizing millionaires? That's the question Congress is mulling over as it considers reauthorizing farm subsidies doled out by the Department of Agriculture.

for full article
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/e.../articles/2008/03/19/old_mcdonald_had_a_scam/

 

[midcan5]

The original idea was good but today it just another corporate handout. I have to say though I would hate to see all farm land plowed under and housing and malls built. As a long distance cyclist I find development ugly.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-06-07-farm-subsidies_x.htm

 

[Adam's Apple]

Another corporate handout it is. What's wrong with this picture when 2% of the population is targeted to receive $25 billion in taxpayer money, and no one ever questions/checks to see if this largesse is necessary? Maybe we should start sending business/finance majors to Washington instead of lawyers.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

It isn't necessary. One of the unfortunate effects of WWI was that farmers got a taste of government lending a helping hand, and got to thinking that it should be permanent, thus many of the WWI programs were reborn during the depression.

Really though, the bottom line is, you don't have a god-given right to make a living at (X). I don't care if your farm has been in your family for 7 generations. Another guy's family has had a plumbing business for 4 generations, so what?

Besides, it isn't the small guys getting subsidies. If you want to help them out, abolish the death tax so family farms can live long enough to compete with corporations. Also, exempt them from the blizzard of regulations they have to comply with. Corporate farms can easily hire full time compliance specialists to deal with them and family farms can't. I had an article about this that I can't find...some of the stuff they have to deal with is just retarded. No wonder people eat so much prepackaged crap.

The original idea was good but today it just another corporate handout. I have to say though I would hate to see all farm land plowed under and housing and malls built. As a long distance cyclist I find development ugly.

Development doesn't have to be horrible looking and spread out everywhere. We used to know how to do it correctly, up until 1950 or so. Read up on New Urbanism, it will blow your mind how many laws, regulations, and subsidies are working against decent development that accomodates walking and biking.

 

[Annie]

Another corporate handout it is. What's wrong with this picture when 2% of the population is targeted to receive $25 billion in taxpayer money, and no one ever questions/checks to see if this largesse is necessary? Maybe we should start sending business/finance majors to Washington instead of lawyers.

ETHYNOL. The farmers are making out like bandits. It's not their fault, but they are reaping the rewards.

 

[Gunny]

Not to deflect, but why do we still man obsolete Cold War military bases and bolster the local economies in countries now ambivalent to our presence to the tune of billions?

Just another example of obsolete spending programs where the need is questionable at best.

I'm sure Congress will get right on top of these issues, as well as others, just as soon as they finish with the FAR MORE important investigation into steroids in MLB ....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Not to deflect, but why do we still man obsolete Cold War military bases and bolster the local economies in countries now ambivalent to our presence to the tune of billions?

Just another example of obsolete spending programs where the need is questionable at best.

I'm sure Congress will get right on top of these issues, as well as others, just as soon as they finish with the FAR MORE important investigation into steroids in MLB ....

Russia is still a threat, possible more of the threat now then ever before. But MOST of those bases have been shut down. There is a fraction of the US forces in Europe that used to be there and there has never been a large presence in the far east.

The 3rd Marine Division is that only in name. It is at best a Brigade. And they have drawn down part of the Army presence in Korea as well.

 

[Gunny]

Russia is still a threat, possible more of the threat now then ever before. But MOST of those bases have been shut down. There is a fraction of the US forces in Europe that used to be there and there has never been a large presence in the far east.

The 3rd Marine Division is that only in name. It is at best a Brigade. And they have drawn down part of the Army presence in Korea as well.

I do not discount Russia as a threat, but a threat to what? What's our interest in it? That Russia might actually attack our "allies" who have shown their true colors since they started believing Russia is NOT a threat?

It's PAST time to revamp some of those old mutual defense pacts and treaties. Realign those military assets and $. I'll bet that "fraction" of US forces would fit nicely from Brownsville to San Diego.

 

[Toro]

With wheat, soybeans, corn, etc., hitting all-time highs, it is ridiculous to continue subsidizing farmers.

 

[nibor]

Obviously no one here knows what it takes to bring a crop in......................

AND since farmers work harder than any of the fat assed geek detractors that think food originates from a fucking grocery store, while allowing their "representation" to cut the normal farmer's throat, who get's subsidized THROUGH LOANS and some very measily tax breaks, with free sudsidies going to corporate welfare and foreign agenduhs, someone should really WAKE UP.................AND SMELL THE COW SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pegwinn]

3rd MARDIV was drawn down? Hmmmm. Things have changed since 2001 when I was last with them. Seemed fairly well staffed to me.

Farmer subsidies help keep grocery costs artificially lower. Oh, and that pretty green JD Tractor runs about a cool quarter mill. Anyone noticed the prices of crop insurance lately?

It's a bit more complicated than the thread suggests.

Personally, I'd axe the bureau of Indian affairs.

 

[Paulie]

Farmer subsidies help keep grocery costs artificially lower.

Only so people don't notice it as much. The high prices that those subsidies were supposed to be preventing 50 years ago, are now being realized today when you buy goods.

You can rob Peter to pay Paul, but eventually Peter's going to come back around and get his money back.

 

[pegwinn]

Only so people don't notice it as much. The high prices that those subsidies were supposed to be preventing 50 years ago, are now being realized today when you buy goods.

You can rob Peter to pay Paul, but eventually Peter's going to come back around and get his money back.

What do you mean by "goods"? Actually, big time subsidies for farmers started during the depression. The idea was to keep the prices of cotton etc stable and spread just enough cash around so the farmers didn't drive prices down in order to eat.

Groceries are dirt cheap if you compare the rise in prices over a lifetime with say .... gasoline.

 

[Gunny]

What do you mean by "goods"? Actually, big time subsidies for farmers started during the depression. The idea was to keep the prices of cotton etc stable and spread just enough cash around so the farmers didn't drive prices down in order to eat.

Groceries are dirt cheap if you compare the rise in prices over a lifetime with say .... gasoline.

Seems to me most of our socialist handout programs originated during the Great Depression.

Pity they haven't been revamped since then to actually meet current need. SOme bureaucrats would have to get off their asses and actually work.

 

[pegwinn]

Seems to me most of our socialist handout programs originated during the Great Depression. Yep

Pity they haven't been revamped since then to actually meet current need. SOme bureaucrats would have to get off their asses and actually work. Now we can't have that can we?

 

[nibor]

3rd MARDIV was drawn down? Hmmmm. Things have changed since 2001 when I was last with them. Seemed fairly well staffed to me.

Farmer subsidies help keep grocery costs artificially lower. Oh, and that pretty green JD Tractor runs about a cool quarter mill. Anyone noticed the prices of crop insurance lately?

It's a bit more complicated than the thread suggests.

Personally, I'd axe the bureau of Indian affairs.

That stupid tractor does cost a quarter mill.............................did anyone ever ask how many GENERATIONS it takes to pay it off for the normal family farmer..............

 

[Kid Pickle]

The point, nibor, is that when you subsidize something, you create dependence. Prices are lowered in the sale market. Prices go up in the related industries (tractors, for example) because there is suddenly a massive infusion of cash. The problem is, most farmers have terrible business sense and know-how. If markets are allowed to be unfettered, you get better or you don't survive, allowing individuals to have the power. If the government monkeys with the controls, you can keep doing it wrong and the government will keep you afloat, making you dependant upon them, giving them more power.
I live in a generally conservative, agriculturally-based state. It's sad, however, because the small farmers are so buffaloed into thinking "I can't do it" they would never let the subsidies be taken from them and, hence, look to government to solve thier problems. The grandsons of sodbusters, looking for someone to do it for them. Pathetic.

 

[nibor]

The point, nibor, is that when you subsidize something, you create dependence. Prices are lowered in the sale market. Prices go up in the related industries (tractors, for example) because there is suddenly a massive infusion of cash. The problem is, most farmers have terrible business sense and know-how. If markets are allowed to be unfettered, you get better or you don't survive, allowing individuals to have the power. If the government monkeys with the controls, you can keep doing it wrong and the government will keep you afloat, making you dependant upon them, giving them more power.
I live in a generally conservative, agriculturally-based state. It's sad, however, because the small farmers are so buffaloed into thinking "I can't do it" they would never let the subsidies be taken from them and, hence, look to government to solve thier problems. The grandsons of sodbusters, looking for someone to do it for them. Pathetic.

Nope kid I don't buy into that theory, most farmers that I know are not subsidized the way you think they are..................they're "buffaloed" by the US AG DEPT by believing that they're work actually means something and have their throats cut by the same dept time after time......................we may not be the best business men and women but YOU put in the hours we work only to be sold out by price restraints while commodity traders jam it up our asses in conjunction with the gubment and their free trade agreements with producers that are ALLOWED BY THEIR LAWS TO POISON YOU...................and then the gubment raises our damned taxes so damned high when they want to plant more houses so the geeks can live in peace OR THEY WANT CORPORATE TAKE OVER OF OUR LAND AND OPERATION....................that we end up borrowing for next years seed.

HOW MANY PRICE BREAKS DO WE GET.............................have you any clue how much money it takes just to plow a field with fuel prices over 4.00 a gallon?????????

 

[Kid Pickle]

I agree totally. The government has its hands all over the business of agriculture. The farmer has little or no control. They rig the system so you stay dependent. You can't even sell out in any way you see fit. That's the problem, once you accept a handout, you give the "benefactor" power over you. Or: "There's no such thing as a free lunch."

 

[nibor]

I agree totally. The government has its hands all over the business of agriculture. The farmer has little or no control. They rig the system so you stay dependent. You can't even sell out in any way you see fit. That's the problem, once you accept a handout, you give the "benefactor" power over you. Or: "There's no such thing as a free lunch."

ESPECIALLY TO THE PEOPLE FEEDING YOUR ASS, IT'S A MYTH................used by rangly assed politicians to divert your attention from the way they're WRECKING US and lining their pockets on foreign product................oh there's corporate welfare, but I'm not incorporated and neither are those left around me.