why is Obama holding America hostage just so he can browbeat the rich?

[occupied]

why did bamie walk away from Simpson Bowles? huh?

why did the GOP walk away from the Grand Bargain worth $4T?

For the same reason Sequestration is going to happen, Boehner cannot guarantee enough republican votes to pass any deal he would make, he has not had effective control of the republican caucus since 2011. It must be killing him to be the most ineffective speaker of the house in our lifetime.

 

[VaYank5150]

You asked a question. I answered. You ignored the answer and changed the subject.

That's only because you asked a bullshit question....and you know better. Stop playing partisan bullshit politics. Our problem must be attacked from many angles. Revenue increases and spending cuts. What are the Republicans offering, again?

They offered many spending cuts in their budget in July, why won't the dem senate take it up? It's all partisan bs, everyone's pointing fingers and no one wants to do their job.

How much cutting was done to the defense budget in their July budget?

 

[Avorysuds]

Obama has already agreed to extend tax cuts for 98% of Americans

Why are Republicans holding it up just to appease their 2% masters?

Why does Obama hold the country hostage by dividing us when Republicans want a more equal treatment to all? Is Obama a bigot and a racist?

 

[VaYank5150]

Oh, that's right....NONE

Spending Reduction Act of 2011
January 2011
The Spending Reduction Act of 2011 reduces federal spending by $2.5 trillion over ten years. The bill will specifically hold FY 2011 non-security discretionary spending to FY 08 levels, hold non-defense discretionary spending to FY 06 levels thereafter for the rest of the ten-year budget window (the same level as in effect during the last year of GOP control of the Congress), and include more than 100 other program eliminations or savings proposals, consisting of proposals from the RSC Sunset Caucus, YouCut, or past RSC budgets. To cosponsor or for more information, contact [email protected]
Overview
 FY 2011 CR Amendment: Replace the spending levels in the FY 2011 continuing resolution (CR) with non-defense, non-homeland security, non-veterans spending at FY 2008 levels. The legislation will further prohibit any FY 2011 funding from being used to carry out any provision of the Democrat government takeover of health care, or to defend the health care law against any lawsuit challenging any provision of the act. $80 billion savings.
 Discretionary Spending Limit, FY 2012-2021: Eliminate automatic increases for inflation from CBO baseline projections for future discretionary appropriations. Further, impose discretionary spending limits through 2021 at 2006 levels on the non-defense portion of the discretionary budget. $2.29 trillion savings over ten years.
 Federal Workforce Reforms: Eliminate automatic pay increases for civilian federal workers for five years. Additionally, cut the civilian workforce by a total of 15 percent through attrition. Allow the hiring of only one new worker for every two workers who leave federal employment until the reduction target has been met. (Savings included in above discretionary savings figure).
 “Stimulus” Repeal: Eliminate all remaining “stimulus” funding. $45 billion total savings.
 Eliminate federal control of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. $30 billion total savings.
 Repeal the Medicaid FMAP increase in the “State Bailout” (Senate amendments to S. 1586). $16.1 billion total savings.
 More than 100 specific program eliminations and spending reductions listed below: $330 billion savings over ten years (included in above discretionary savings figure).
Additional Program Eliminations/Spending Reforms
 Corporation for Public Broadcasting Subsidy. $445 million annual savings.
 Save America’s Treasures Program. $25 million annual savings.
 International Fund for Ireland. $17 million annual savings.
 Legal Services Corporation. $420 million annual savings.
 National Endowment for the Arts. $167.5 million annual savings.
 National Endowment for the Humanities. $167.5 million annual savings.
 Hope VI Program. $250 million annual savings.
 Amtrak Subsidies. $1.565 billion annual savings.
 Eliminate duplicative education programs. H.R. 2274 (in last Congress), authored by Rep. McKeon, eliminates 68 at a savings of $1.3 billion annually.
 U.S. Trade Development Agency. $55 million annual savings.
 Woodrow Wilson Center Subsidy. $20 million annual savings.
 Cut in half funding for congressional printing and binding. $47 million annual savings.
 John C. Stennis Center Subsidy. $430,000 annual savings.
 Community Development Fund. $4.5 billion annual savings.
 Heritage Area Grants and Statutory Aid. $24 million annual savings.
 Cut Federal Travel Budget in Half. $7.5 billion annual savings.
 Trim Federal Vehicle Budget by 20%. $600 million annual savings.
 Essential Air Service. $150 million annual savings.
 Technology Innovation Program. $70 million annual savings.
 Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP) Program. $125 million annual savings.
 Department of Energy Grants to States for Weatherization. $530 million annual savings.
 Beach Replenishment. $95 million annual savings.
 New Starts Transit. $2 billion annual savings.
 Exchange Programs for Alaska, Natives Native Hawaiians, and Their Historical Trading Partners in Massachusetts. $9 million annual savings.
 Intercity and High Speed Rail Grants. $2.5 billion annual savings.
 Title X Family Planning. $318 million annual savings.
 Appalachian Regional Commission. $76 million annual savings.
 Economic Development Administration. $293 million annual savings.
 Programs under the National and Community Services Act. $1.15 billion annual savings.
 Applied Research at Department of Energy. $1.27 billion annual savings.
 FreedomCAR and Fuel Partnership. $200 million annual savings.
 Energy Star Program. $52 million annual savings.
 Economic Assistance to Egypt. $250 million annually.
 U.S. Agency for International Development. $1.39 billion annual savings.
 General Assistance to District of Columbia. $210 million annual savings.
 Subsidy for Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority. $150 million annual savings.
 Presidential Campaign Fund. $775 million savings over ten years.
 No funding for federal office space acquisition. $864 million annual savings.
 End prohibitions on competitive sourcing of government services.
 Repeal the Davis-Bacon Act. More than $1 billion annually.
 IRS Direct Deposit: Require the IRS to deposit fees for some services it offers (such as processing payment plans for taxpayers) to the Treasury, instead of allowing it to remain as part of its budget. $1.8 billion savings over ten years.
 Require collection of unpaid taxes by federal employees. $1 billion total savings.
 Prohibit taxpayer funded union activities by federal employees. $1.2 billion savings over ten years.
 Sell excess federal properties the government does not make use of. $15 billion total savings.
 Eliminate death gratuity for Members of Congress.
 Eliminate Mohair Subsidies. $1 million annual savings.
 Eliminate taxpayer subsidies to the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. $12.5 million annual savings.
 Eliminate Market Access Program. $200 million annual savings.
 USDA Sugar Program. $14 million annual savings.
 Subsidy to Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). $93 million annual savings.
 Eliminate the National Organic Certification Cost-Share Program. $56.2 million annual savings.
 Eliminate fund for Obamacare administrative costs. $900 million savings.
 Ready to Learn TV Program. $27 million savings.
 HUD Ph.D. Program.
 Deficit Reduction Check-Off Act.
TOTAL SAVINGS: $2.5 Trillion over Ten Years

 

[Avorysuds]

Why won't the Republicans offer spending cutting ideas to help offset the loss in revnue?

You asked a question. I answered. You ignored the answer and changed the subject.

That's only because you asked a bullshit question....and you know better. Stop playing partisan bullshit politics. Our problem must be attacked from many angles. Revenue increases and spending cuts. What are the Republicans offering, again?

Ok, so lets say you get whatever tax increase you want, how much revenue do you feel it will approximately bring in... Now minus that from our annual deficit and tell me how YOU would balance the budget from there.

Now this is where the conversation stops seeing as all you wanted to do was treat one group of the population unfairly for absolutely no reason because you’re a bigot. You think if someone defends the rich even whne we are right it's bad, because you simply hate the rich. People once did that to jews because they had money and blacks because they needed slave labor.

 

[rightwinger]

Obama has already agreed to extend tax cuts for 98% of Americans

Why are Republicans holding it up just to appease their 2% masters?

Why does Obama hold the country hostage by dividing us when Republicans want a more equal treatment to all? Is Obama a bigot and a racist?

ALL Americans are treated equally

ALL dollars are not treated equally

 

[Avorysuds]

Oh, that's right....NONE

Spending Reduction Act of 2011
January 2011
The Spending Reduction Act of 2011 reduces federal spending by $2.5 trillion over ten years. The bill will specifically hold FY 2011 non-security discretionary spending to FY 08 levels, hold non-defense discretionary spending to FY 06 levels thereafter for the rest of the ten-year budget window (the same level as in effect during the last year of GOP control of the Congress), and include more than 100 other program eliminations or savings proposals, consisting of proposals from the RSC Sunset Caucus, YouCut, or past RSC budgets. To cosponsor or for more information, contact [email protected]
Overview
 FY 2011 CR Amendment: Replace the spending levels in the FY 2011 continuing resolution (CR) with non-defense, non-homeland security, non-veterans spending at FY 2008 levels. The legislation will further prohibit any FY 2011 funding from being used to carry out any provision of the Democrat government takeover of health care, or to defend the health care law against any lawsuit challenging any provision of the act. $80 billion savings.
 Discretionary Spending Limit, FY 2012-2021: Eliminate automatic increases for inflation from CBO baseline projections for future discretionary appropriations. Further, impose discretionary spending limits through 2021 at 2006 levels on the non-defense portion of the discretionary budget. $2.29 trillion savings over ten years.
 Federal Workforce Reforms: Eliminate automatic pay increases for civilian federal workers for five years. Additionally, cut the civilian workforce by a total of 15 percent through attrition. Allow the hiring of only one new worker for every two workers who leave federal employment until the reduction target has been met. (Savings included in above discretionary savings figure).
 “Stimulus” Repeal: Eliminate all remaining “stimulus” funding. $45 billion total savings.
 Eliminate federal control of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. $30 billion total savings.
 Repeal the Medicaid FMAP increase in the “State Bailout” (Senate amendments to S. 1586). $16.1 billion total savings.
 More than 100 specific program eliminations and spending reductions listed below: $330 billion savings over ten years (included in above discretionary savings figure).
Additional Program Eliminations/Spending Reforms
 Corporation for Public Broadcasting Subsidy. $445 million annual savings.
 Save America’s Treasures Program. $25 million annual savings.
 International Fund for Ireland. $17 million annual savings.
 Legal Services Corporation. $420 million annual savings.
 National Endowment for the Arts. $167.5 million annual savings.
 National Endowment for the Humanities. $167.5 million annual savings.
 Hope VI Program. $250 million annual savings.
 Amtrak Subsidies. $1.565 billion annual savings.
 Eliminate duplicative education programs. H.R. 2274 (in last Congress), authored by Rep. McKeon, eliminates 68 at a savings of $1.3 billion annually.
 U.S. Trade Development Agency. $55 million annual savings.
 Woodrow Wilson Center Subsidy. $20 million annual savings.
 Cut in half funding for congressional printing and binding. $47 million annual savings.
 John C. Stennis Center Subsidy. $430,000 annual savings.
 Community Development Fund. $4.5 billion annual savings.
 Heritage Area Grants and Statutory Aid. $24 million annual savings.
 Cut Federal Travel Budget in Half. $7.5 billion annual savings.
 Trim Federal Vehicle Budget by 20%. $600 million annual savings.
 Essential Air Service. $150 million annual savings.
 Technology Innovation Program. $70 million annual savings.
 Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP) Program. $125 million annual savings.
 Department of Energy Grants to States for Weatherization. $530 million annual savings.
 Beach Replenishment. $95 million annual savings.
 New Starts Transit. $2 billion annual savings.
 Exchange Programs for Alaska, Natives Native Hawaiians, and Their Historical Trading Partners in Massachusetts. $9 million annual savings.
 Intercity and High Speed Rail Grants. $2.5 billion annual savings.
 Title X Family Planning. $318 million annual savings.
 Appalachian Regional Commission. $76 million annual savings.
 Economic Development Administration. $293 million annual savings.
 Programs under the National and Community Services Act. $1.15 billion annual savings.
 Applied Research at Department of Energy. $1.27 billion annual savings.
 FreedomCAR and Fuel Partnership. $200 million annual savings.
 Energy Star Program. $52 million annual savings.
 Economic Assistance to Egypt. $250 million annually.
 U.S. Agency for International Development. $1.39 billion annual savings.
 General Assistance to District of Columbia. $210 million annual savings.
 Subsidy for Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority. $150 million annual savings.
 Presidential Campaign Fund. $775 million savings over ten years.
 No funding for federal office space acquisition. $864 million annual savings.
 End prohibitions on competitive sourcing of government services.
 Repeal the Davis-Bacon Act. More than $1 billion annually.
 IRS Direct Deposit: Require the IRS to deposit fees for some services it offers (such as processing payment plans for taxpayers) to the Treasury, instead of allowing it to remain as part of its budget. $1.8 billion savings over ten years.
 Require collection of unpaid taxes by federal employees. $1 billion total savings.
 Prohibit taxpayer funded union activities by federal employees. $1.2 billion savings over ten years.
 Sell excess federal properties the government does not make use of. $15 billion total savings.
 Eliminate death gratuity for Members of Congress.
 Eliminate Mohair Subsidies. $1 million annual savings.
 Eliminate taxpayer subsidies to the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. $12.5 million annual savings.
 Eliminate Market Access Program. $200 million annual savings.
 USDA Sugar Program. $14 million annual savings.
 Subsidy to Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). $93 million annual savings.
 Eliminate the National Organic Certification Cost-Share Program. $56.2 million annual savings.
 Eliminate fund for Obamacare administrative costs. $900 million savings.
 Ready to Learn TV Program. $27 million savings.
 HUD Ph.D. Program.
 Deficit Reduction Check-Off Act.
TOTAL SAVINGS: $2.5 Trillion over Ten Years

If the annual deficit were 1.5 Trillion you would add 15 trillion over ten years... we would be near 31 trillion total deficit... Now minus your "savings" and you are only 29 trillion total deficit.

 

[Avorysuds]

Obama has already agreed to extend tax cuts for 98% of Americans

Why are Republicans holding it up just to appease their 2% masters?

Why does Obama hold the country hostage by dividing us when Republicans want a more equal treatment to all? Is Obama a bigot and a racist?

ALL Americans are treated equally

ALL dollars are not treated equally

All are treated equal except that 2% voting block you pretend to want to attack for fake reasons, and of course the near 50% that don't pay any federal taxes.... Why do the Rich need to pay more, what will the revenues be used for and how much will a rise in taxes add to revenues...

Watch in astonishment as RW fails.

 

[BlindBoo]

How exactly does raising the marginal rate by 3% on incomes above 200,000 (250, if married filing jointly) brow beat anyone? Were their brows being beating in the 90's?

Won't the same folks benefit from the lower tax rates below 200,000 dollars?

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

Why does Obama hold the country hostage by dividing us when Republicans want a more equal treatment to all? Is Obama a bigot and a racist?

ALL Americans are treated equally

ALL dollars are not treated equally

All are treated equal except that 2% voting block you pretend to want to attack for fake reasons, and of course the near 50% that don't pay any federal taxes.... Why do the Rich need to pay more, what will the revenues be used for and how much will a rise in taxes add to revenues...

Watch in astonishment as RW fails.

the 47% that dont pay any federal income taxes actually dont do so due to republican policies of lowering tax rates and increasing the standard deduction. so are they mad at themselves for the affects of their own policies?

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

Oh, that's right....NONE

Spending Reduction Act of 2011
January 2011
The Spending Reduction Act of 2011 reduces federal spending by $2.5 trillion over ten years. The bill will specifically hold FY 2011 non-security discretionary spending to FY 08 levels, hold non-defense discretionary spending to FY 06 levels thereafter for the rest of the ten-year budget window (the same level as in effect during the last year of GOP control of the Congress), and include more than 100 other program eliminations or savings proposals, consisting of proposals from the RSC Sunset Caucus, YouCut, or past RSC budgets. To cosponsor or for more information, contact [email protected]
Overview
 FY 2011 CR Amendment: Replace the spending levels in the FY 2011 continuing resolution (CR) with non-defense, non-homeland security, non-veterans spending at FY 2008 levels. The legislation will further prohibit any FY 2011 funding from being used to carry out any provision of the Democrat government takeover of health care, or to defend the health care law against any lawsuit challenging any provision of the act. $80 billion savings.
 Discretionary Spending Limit, FY 2012-2021: Eliminate automatic increases for inflation from CBO baseline projections for future discretionary appropriations. Further, impose discretionary spending limits through 2021 at 2006 levels on the non-defense portion of the discretionary budget. $2.29 trillion savings over ten years.
 Federal Workforce Reforms: Eliminate automatic pay increases for civilian federal workers for five years. Additionally, cut the civilian workforce by a total of 15 percent through attrition. Allow the hiring of only one new worker for every two workers who leave federal employment until the reduction target has been met. (Savings included in above discretionary savings figure).
 “Stimulus” Repeal: Eliminate all remaining “stimulus” funding. $45 billion total savings.
 Eliminate federal control of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. $30 billion total savings.
 Repeal the Medicaid FMAP increase in the “State Bailout” (Senate amendments to S. 1586). $16.1 billion total savings.
 More than 100 specific program eliminations and spending reductions listed below: $330 billion savings over ten years (included in above discretionary savings figure).
Additional Program Eliminations/Spending Reforms
 Corporation for Public Broadcasting Subsidy. $445 million annual savings.
 Save America’s Treasures Program. $25 million annual savings.
 International Fund for Ireland. $17 million annual savings.
 Legal Services Corporation. $420 million annual savings.
 National Endowment for the Arts. $167.5 million annual savings.
 National Endowment for the Humanities. $167.5 million annual savings.
 Hope VI Program. $250 million annual savings.
 Amtrak Subsidies. $1.565 billion annual savings.
 Eliminate duplicative education programs. H.R. 2274 (in last Congress), authored by Rep. McKeon, eliminates 68 at a savings of $1.3 billion annually.
 U.S. Trade Development Agency. $55 million annual savings.
 Woodrow Wilson Center Subsidy. $20 million annual savings.
 Cut in half funding for congressional printing and binding. $47 million annual savings.
 John C. Stennis Center Subsidy. $430,000 annual savings.
 Community Development Fund. $4.5 billion annual savings.
 Heritage Area Grants and Statutory Aid. $24 million annual savings.
 Cut Federal Travel Budget in Half. $7.5 billion annual savings.
 Trim Federal Vehicle Budget by 20%. $600 million annual savings.
 Essential Air Service. $150 million annual savings.
 Technology Innovation Program. $70 million annual savings.
 Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP) Program. $125 million annual savings.
 Department of Energy Grants to States for Weatherization. $530 million annual savings.
 Beach Replenishment. $95 million annual savings.
 New Starts Transit. $2 billion annual savings.
 Exchange Programs for Alaska, Natives Native Hawaiians, and Their Historical Trading Partners in Massachusetts. $9 million annual savings.
 Intercity and High Speed Rail Grants. $2.5 billion annual savings.
 Title X Family Planning. $318 million annual savings.
 Appalachian Regional Commission. $76 million annual savings.
 Economic Development Administration. $293 million annual savings.
 Programs under the National and Community Services Act. $1.15 billion annual savings.
 Applied Research at Department of Energy. $1.27 billion annual savings.
 FreedomCAR and Fuel Partnership. $200 million annual savings.
 Energy Star Program. $52 million annual savings.
 Economic Assistance to Egypt. $250 million annually.
 U.S. Agency for International Development. $1.39 billion annual savings.
 General Assistance to District of Columbia. $210 million annual savings.
 Subsidy for Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority. $150 million annual savings.
 Presidential Campaign Fund. $775 million savings over ten years.
 No funding for federal office space acquisition. $864 million annual savings.
 End prohibitions on competitive sourcing of government services.
 Repeal the Davis-Bacon Act. More than $1 billion annually.
 IRS Direct Deposit: Require the IRS to deposit fees for some services it offers (such as processing payment plans for taxpayers) to the Treasury, instead of allowing it to remain as part of its budget. $1.8 billion savings over ten years.
 Require collection of unpaid taxes by federal employees. $1 billion total savings.
 Prohibit taxpayer funded union activities by federal employees. $1.2 billion savings over ten years.
 Sell excess federal properties the government does not make use of. $15 billion total savings.
 Eliminate death gratuity for Members of Congress.
 Eliminate Mohair Subsidies. $1 million annual savings.
 Eliminate taxpayer subsidies to the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. $12.5 million annual savings.
 Eliminate Market Access Program. $200 million annual savings.
 USDA Sugar Program. $14 million annual savings.
 Subsidy to Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). $93 million annual savings.
 Eliminate the National Organic Certification Cost-Share Program. $56.2 million annual savings.
 Eliminate fund for Obamacare administrative costs. $900 million savings.
 Ready to Learn TV Program. $27 million savings.
 HUD Ph.D. Program.
 Deficit Reduction Check-Off Act.
TOTAL SAVINGS: $2.5 Trillion over Ten Years

If the annual deficit were 1.5 Trillion you would add 15 trillion over ten years... we would be near 31 trillion total deficit... Now minus your "savings" and you are only 29 trillion total deficit.

you also have $1.6T in new revenues due to taxes.

again this is a good starting point, however if the GOP is not willing counter offer anything, then how is a negotiation supposed to happen? Boehner keeps paying the current proposal on the table is inadequate, however he is unwilling to counter offer and negotiate.

fiscal cliff here we come, which is actually pretty funny because the so called fiscal cliff gives both sides exactly what they want. taxes increase and spending is cut.

 

[Avorysuds]

How exactly does raising the marginal rate by 3% on incomes above 200,000 (250, if married filing jointly) brow beat anyone? Were their brows being beating in the 90's?

Won't the same folks benefit from the lower tax rates below 200,000 dollars?

The issue is we are shifting to a country that spends far more than during the 90's, on military and welfare. The reason many here and Obama himself claim we need to raise taxes is to pay for the deficit, and their "fair share." The "fair share" is of course their fair share of the deficit.

However when asked to provide an approximate number on new revenues on this proposed tax increase most flat out ignore the question. The real answer is it would create very very very little amounts in new revenue. So little that you are still left with well over 1 trillion in annual deficit spending. even a 10 to 1, cuts vs taxes by dollars would not get the annual deficit under 1 trillion. Literally 100 to 1 on cuts VS taxes increases would be in the realm of closing the annual deficit gap. And you would still need a few hundred billion to get there. This is all based of course on IF ALL the “new revenues” are spend 100% only on bringing down the deficit. Hell, Dems are busy starting news wars and raising military spending to record highs, so what are the odds they would use the revenues to pay down a growing deficit.

The conversation is based on either ignorance by many on "the left" (and Obama,) or pure bigotry by those (and Obama) that want to scapegoat "the rich" much like Hitler did to the jews. Taxing more actually does not even kinda sorta fix the problem and "the rich" are paying far more federal taxes (by %) than the poor and in many cases the middle class.

Now all the “taxes for the rich only!!!!!!” people will see is "HITLER!!!" despite it being identically the same and true.

 

[bitterlyclingin]

There are two statements of Obama's that must be considered at this point.
The first was his promise to bring about "The Fundamental Transformation Of America"
The second was his musing in 1998 at Loyola University that "Those people receiving welfare as well as those receiving other forms of government largesse, along with the working poor constitute a critical mass that could lead to the installation of a (Communist) at the head of the government and maintain him there for a considerable time."

The world considered Hitler's writings in Mein Kampf as just idle musings, wishful thinking of a man who had nothing better to do during his time in jail.

If you think the Constitution will stop Barack Obama, think again. Barack Obama has a grip on Supreme Court Chief Justice John Robert's testicles just as tight as the one he had on David Petraeus's. How else can you explain Roberts inexplicable decision re: Obamacare and furthermore, Roberts can be expected to roll in Obama's favor each and every time in the future.

In order to usurp the Constitution and be elected to the position of president for life Obama will have to make the reigns of the Roman Emperor Nero's "Bread and Circuses" as well as Caligula's acts of standing on the tops of Rome's tallest buildings and tossing fistfuls of gold coins down to the feverishly swirling masses on the street below pale in comparison. By sticking it to the rich with increased taxes he's playing to the greed and envy of the masses of have nots whose only worth as humans is the votes they can cast for Obama, and creating a Robin Hood aura for himself. He does not care if we go over the fiscal cliff, he does not care if the national debt be reduced, he does not care if the economy should fall further into the depression. His answer to any furthering of the economic malaise we inhabit at the moment will be is that "We tried solving America's economic problems through Capitalism's methods and techniques for four years and they have failed. We now need to try a new economic system." And of course he'll have to stick around for a while to make sure it gets off to good start.

Do you want to be the one telling your grand kids that you're one of the one's that let Barack Obama trash the Constitution and institute a Communist dictatorship where the government decides what every citizen gets. Of course that decision will be made based on how fervently, how ardently and how well you tow the party line. There's no other way to base a decision other than that basis under Communism.

Joe Stalin even saw fit to murder almost all of the Russian Army's officer corps after signing the non aggression pact with Germany, figuring he no longer needed an effective defense in lieu of the treaty. It was only after German shells started landing in the vicinity of Moscow that competent and effective Army officers became necessary enough for Stalin to not have them killed.

"There is a time for every purpose under Heaven
A time to love and a time to hate
A time to build up and a time to tear down
A time to gather stones together and a time to scatter......"

http://weaselzippers.us/2012/12/03/...-fiscal-cliff-if-he-doesnt-get-his-tax-hikes/

 

[BlindBoo]

How exactly does raising the marginal rate by 3% on incomes above 200,000 (250, if married filing jointly) brow beat anyone? Were their brows being beating in the 90's?

Won't the same folks benefit from the lower tax rates below 200,000 dollars?

The issue is we are shifting to a country that spends far more than during the 90's, on military and welfare. The reason many here and Obama himself claim we need to raise taxes is to pay for the deficit, and their "fair share." The "fair share" is of course their fair share of the deficit.

However when asked to provide an approximate number on new revenues on this proposed tax increase most flat out ignore the question. The real answer is it would create very very very little amounts in new revenue. So little that you are still left with well over 1 trillion in annual deficit spending. even a 10 to 1, cuts vs taxes by dollars would not get the annual deficit under 1 trillion. Literally 100 to 1 on cuts VS taxes increases would be in the realm of closing the annual deficit gap. And you would still need a few hundred billion to get there. This is all based of course on IF ALL the “new revenues” are spend 100% only on bringing down the deficit. Hell, Dems are busy starting news wars and raising military spending to record highs, so what are the odds they would use the revenues to pay down a growing deficit.

The conversation is based on either ignorance by many on "the left" (and Obama,) or pure bigotry by those (and Obama) that want to scapegoat "the rich" much like Hitler did to the jews. Taxing more actually does not even kinda sorta fix the problem and "the rich" are paying far more federal taxes (by %) than the poor and in many cases the middle class.

Now all the “taxes for the rich only!!!!!!” people will see is "HITLER!!!" despite it being identically the same and true.

Okay that does nothing to answer the question so I'll ask another one, how does raising the marginal rate on income above 250,000 by 3% scapegoat anyone on any level much less to the level that the Nazi scapegoated the European Jews for the horrible depression Germany experienced in the post WWI?

 

[OKTexas]

That's only because you asked a bullshit question....and you know better. Stop playing partisan bullshit politics. Our problem must be attacked from many angles. Revenue increases and spending cuts. What are the Republicans offering, again?

They offered many spending cuts in their budget in July, why won't the dem senate take it up? It's all partisan bs, everyone's pointing fingers and no one wants to do their job.

How much cutting was done to the defense budget in their July budget?

Doesn't really matter, Ried won't even submit it to the senate commitees for mark up. He's just igonred the law requiring him to produce a budget, the house has passed 3. Reid has put the breaks on how the congress is supposed to work, and you folks the republicans obstructionist, and the mindless zombies just eat that shit up.

 

[RosieS]

Who cares? The Republicans are gonna be forced to say just how much they want to cut Granny's Medicare and shred what is left of the tattered safety net. They have been dodging and weaving on all of the news shows -whining that Obama has to show leadership.

He is! He is holding Republicans' feet to the fire. By raising the rate on high income Americans he is making it clear that Occupy Wall Street won. He made it clear that the House is neither his mommy nor daddy and he will NOT take marching orders from them.

You don't have to like it. But youu must realize the man has ice water in his veins and likes to see Republicans writhe.

Dance, Republicants, Dance.

Regards from Rosie

 

[jillian]

Pathetic.....

the better question is why is the right holding the country hostage in order to protect 1% of the population from going back to the tax rate they did just fine with prior to baby bush's presidency?

 

[Politico]

Congress is the problem as it has been. The same one you turds re-elected. And for the special needs kids. A temporary tax amnesty expiring is not an increase. Not increasing funding to an existing program isn't a cut. And 2+2 does not equal 5.

 

[Avorysuds]

How exactly does raising the marginal rate by 3% on incomes above 200,000 (250, if married filing jointly) brow beat anyone? Were their brows being beating in the 90's?

Won't the same folks benefit from the lower tax rates below 200,000 dollars?

The issue is we are shifting to a country that spends far more than during the 90's, on military and welfare. The reason many here and Obama himself claim we need to raise taxes is to pay for the deficit, and their "fair share." The "fair share" is of course their fair share of the deficit.

However when asked to provide an approximate number on new revenues on this proposed tax increase most flat out ignore the question. The real answer is it would create very very very little amounts in new revenue. So little that you are still left with well over 1 trillion in annual deficit spending. even a 10 to 1, cuts vs taxes by dollars would not get the annual deficit under 1 trillion. Literally 100 to 1 on cuts VS taxes increases would be in the realm of closing the annual deficit gap. And you would still need a few hundred billion to get there. This is all based of course on IF ALL the “new revenues” are spend 100% only on bringing down the deficit. Hell, Dems are busy starting news wars and raising military spending to record highs, so what are the odds they would use the revenues to pay down a growing deficit.

The conversation is based on either ignorance by many on "the left" (and Obama,) or pure bigotry by those (and Obama) that want to scapegoat "the rich" much like Hitler did to the jews. Taxing more actually does not even kinda sorta fix the problem and "the rich" are paying far more federal taxes (by %) than the poor and in many cases the middle class.

Now all the “taxes for the rich only!!!!!!” people will see is "HITLER!!!" despite it being identically the same and true.

Okay that does nothing to answer the question so I'll ask another one, how does raising the marginal rate on income above 250,000 by 3% scapegoat anyone on any level much less to the level that the Nazi scapegoated the European Jews for the horrible depression Germany experienced in the post WWI?

Again, I’ll ask. What is the point of raising taxes? If it’s to balance the deficit then I ask how much revenue will it bring in and how much will be spend on the deficit alone? If it’s for “fairness” what is “fairness” based upon? Is fairness based on paying down the deficit or making the rich pay more money for no other reason than you “feel” they should. If the reason is because you “feel the rich should pay more” and not to pay down the deficit, then why do you allow around half the country to pay no taxes and many of whom to remain on a near permeate form of welfare.

What you seem to avoid is the question of why raise taxes… You shift the conversation to “how does it matter to the rich, they can afford.”

So yes, it’s very much as Hitler used the Jews. I didn’t talk about killing anyone, I talked about using a smaller group as a scapegoat as to why the economy sucks, why life is so poor for everyone else, just as you are doing. You don’t even seem clear as to why the rich need 3% more taxes. Hell, if Obama said 10% more on taxes would you even blink? If you would blink, why?


This conversation is fake because it's based on the false idea that you want to balance the deficit through a raising of taxes. You know as well as I do that even a 50% more taxes on the rich wouldn't balance the budget... Do you support a 50% raise in taxes on the rich?

 

[Avorysuds]

Pathetic.....

the better question is why is the right holding the country hostage in order to protect 1% of the population from going back to the tax rate they did just fine with prior to baby bush's presidency?

Because you being a bigot who believes attacking a minority is right, despite not having a single answer as to why you want to tax them more. So stopping you is the right thing to do. You are the kind of person that would have gone after the jews, blacks and anyone else based on “fairness” if you thought it made your life better and theirs worse.