Why I'm not a socialist (don't gloat, conservatives)

[dfens]

In many ways I'm still a leftist, and think like a leftist. I don't think that ever fully leaves someone.

But I must admit...I really don't believe in a sharing economy. The reason is not because I've become a full fledged capitalist, or think the free market solves everything. Look, capitalism will decline on a long enough timeline, and we'll be in trouble.

It's just...I don't want to share! Think about, leftists. You want to share with people who despise you. Who want nothing to do with you. Who will gladly cheat and steal and do everything to get more than their share. Why would you possibly try changing them?

I think socialism works only in one situation. Small countries where basically everyone is a socialist to some degree. It works because the high level of trust and uniformity means there are no grifters, everyone contributes and gets back something in return.

Socialism doesn't work at a large scale, like nations, the global economy, or big business. There are too many competitors, too many people ready to take advantage. In this case, I would rather fight for my piece, however small it may be.

And let me add that you conservatives shouldn't gloat because, well, capitalism really isn't conservative. It's capitalism which changes the world more than anything.

 

[Penelope]

Don't worry we are already a socialist country , and we continually give to the plutocrats, our taxes and IRA's , etc support them. We pay salaries to politicians who do as they say, we are even going to lower the top tax bracket, do away with inheritance tax for billionaires, AMT, Medicaid, Medicare, food stamps, school programs for children, meals on wheels, allow pollution and deregulation of labor. They need our money, its their Iife source , so that makes us peons (those who make median income and under) their life source.

 

[Toro]

Capitalism rocks.

 

[Penelope]

We do not have a capitalist country, we are controlled by the plutocrats. Greed has got so bad with the elites, that it will break, like it has in every country. The Big fish gobble up the small fries. We have wall street, not main street.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Capitalism rocks.

Even socialists know they need capitalism to survive.

 

[Tehon]

Capitalism rocks.

Even socialists know they need capitalism to survive.

Not true. The difference between socialism and capitalism is in the ownership of the means of production. Having a system based on social ownership is not at all dependent on private ownership.

 

[Mac1958]

It's all just a matter of equilibrium - striking and maintaining a proper balance of a reasonable public safety net and the most efficient & fruitful dynamics of capitalism.

Unfortunately, the loudest voices in the conversation are the wingers on one end who hate the private sector and those on the other end who hate the public sector.

Until we somehow marginalize those voices, we're going to remain in this ridiculous muck. Maybe if we wave a shiny object or something.
.

 

[Penelope]

Most working countries have both, socialism and capitalism, just not to the extremes. We need social healthcare or soon only the elites will get it.

 

[Tehon]

Most working countries have both, socialism and capitalism, just not to the extremes. We need social healthcare or soon only the elites will get it.

I think it is a common mistake to misrepresent social democracy as socialism.

 

[JoeB131]

Capitalism rocks.

Capitalism Sucks.

 

[Penelope]

Most working countries have both, socialism and capitalism, just not to the extremes. We need social healthcare or soon only the elites will get it.

I think it is a common mistake to misrepresent social democracy as socialism.

We do not have social democracy anymore. We do not even have a democracy.

 

[Tehon]

Most working countries have both, socialism and capitalism, just not to the extremes. We need social healthcare or soon only the elites will get it.

I think it is a common mistake to misrepresent social democracy as socialism.

We do not have social democracy anymore. We do not even have a democracy.

Did you follow the link? Let me help you.

Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, as well as a policy regime involving a commitment to representative democracy, measures for income redistribution, and regulation of the economy in the general interest and welfare state provisions.

Is this ^ not what you believe in?

 

[Penelope]

Most working countries have both, socialism and capitalism, just not to the extremes. We need social healthcare or soon only the elites will get it.

I think it is a common mistake to misrepresent social democracy as socialism.

We do not have social democracy anymore. We do not even have a democracy.

Did you follow the link? Let me help you.

Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, as well as a policy regime involving a commitment to representative democracy, measures for income redistribution, and regulation of the economy in the general interest and welfare state provisions.

Is this ^ not what you believe in?

And that is why I'm a Democrat, they at least throw life savers, its no doubt what we are now, we are a plutocracy with Trump deregulating everything and also with Citizens United. The GOP's goal is to get rid of the New Deal.

 

[Tehon]

Most working countries have both, socialism and capitalism, just not to the extremes. We need social healthcare or soon only the elites will get it.

I think it is a common mistake to misrepresent social democracy as socialism.

We do not have social democracy anymore. We do not even have a democracy.

Did you follow the link? Let me help you.

Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, as well as a policy regime involving a commitment to representative democracy, measures for income redistribution, and regulation of the economy in the general interest and welfare state provisions.

Is this ^ not what you believe in?

And that is why I'm a Democrat, they at least throw life savers, its no doubt what we are now, we are a plutocracy with Trump deregulating everything and also with Citizens United. The GOP's goal is to get rid of the New Deal.

The point is that you are not socialist, you are capitalist. You just believe it should be regulated to promote social justice.

Which leads me to another question. Why do you support the democrats when they support neo-liberal policies that exacerbate economic inequality? Giving hand outs to people that have lost their jobs due to your economic policies is nice but it is hardly justice.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Capitalism rocks.

Even socialists know they need capitalism to survive.

Not true. The difference between socialism and capitalism is in the ownership of the means of production. Having a system based on social ownership is not at all dependent on private ownership.

Yes, based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" provides no incentive toward individual effort, since any such profit is largely absorbed by the state for redistribution, and thereby reducing itself the very profit it seeks.

 

[Tehon]

Capitalism rocks.

Even socialists know they need capitalism to survive.

Not true. The difference between socialism and capitalism is in the ownership of the means of production. Having a system based on social ownership is not at all dependent on private ownership.

Yes, based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" provides no incentive toward individual effort, since any such profit is largely absorbed by the state for redistribution, and thereby reducing itself the very profit it seeks.

Why do you think people would not want to improve their conditions only because it would improve the conditions for everyone?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Capitalism rocks.

Even socialists know they need capitalism to survive.

Not true. The difference between socialism and capitalism is in the ownership of the means of production. Having a system based on social ownership is not at all dependent on private ownership.

Yes, based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" provides no incentive toward individual effort, since any such profit is largely absorbed by the state for redistribution, and thereby reducing itself the very profit it seeks.

Why do you think people would not want to improve their conditions only because it would improve the conditions for everyone?

If I were working under such a system, and the salary for four of the eight hours I worked went to pay for others not working, I would not work.

I'd get the EBT card and eat lobster. Wouldn't you?

 

[rightwinger]

Every country is some mix of socialism and capitalism

We are no different

Our schools are socialist, so are roads, police, fire protection, legal system and thousands of other government functions

 

[Tehon]

Capitalism rocks.

Even socialists know they need capitalism to survive.

Not true. The difference between socialism and capitalism is in the ownership of the means of production. Having a system based on social ownership is not at all dependent on private ownership.

Yes, based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" provides no incentive toward individual effort, since any such profit is largely absorbed by the state for redistribution, and thereby reducing itself the very profit it seeks.

Why do you think people would not want to improve their conditions only because it would improve the conditions for everyone?

If I were working under such a system, and the salary for four of the eight hours I worked went to pay for others not working, I would not work.

I'd get the EBT card and eat lobster. Wouldn't you?

No. I would be catching lobster.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Every country is some mix of socialism and capitalism

We are no different

Our schools are socialist, so are roads, police, fire protection, legal system and thousands of other government functions

They are functions of elected governments. No constitution - state, federal or otherwise - grants governments power to reach into an individual's pocket to provide another individual a living.

If I am wrong in this, provide examples, and don't try the "general welfare" clause either. Such wacky interpretations were long ago dismantled.