CDZ Why I support whomever. . .

[there4eyeM]

It was a vote against the two party dictatorship.

 

[Shrimpbox]

I'm struck by the overwhelming (I put it at 95+ percent) of Trump voters who voted for John McCain in 2008. And in 6 years, they will vote for someone who looks more like McCain than Trump again. It speaks to the amount of self-deception that republicans are currently undergoing where they have been coerced into lending not only support but allegiance to this incredibly inept, aloof, and frankly stupid person who has to write notes like "I hear you" and "No collusion"....to himself.

Contrast that to the Democratic nominees of Obama and Hilary Clinton. It would be difficult to detect much difference between the two; perhaps in policy but not philosophy. Democrats will not have to explain to their kids why they supported someone so outside of not only their own personal values but outside of the accepted norms in society. Most people do not sleep with porn stars that (and this is verified) tell the "actress" that "you remind me of my daughter".

As for policies, few can point to a policy that has made much of a difference to most Americans. The tax breaks have largely gone to the uber wealthy and to corporations who quickly pocketed the money. Wages have not increased. The CPI and PPI are surging. Unemployment has continued it's downward trend that started soon after Obama took over for the previous republican disaster. As for campaign promises; Trump has kept few. "We're going to take care of everyone" (10/14/15) has turned into a repeal of the ACA and a return to the bad old days where insurance companies can refuse to issue you coverage for PECs. Our military is not stronger in any measurable way. The infrastructure plan has been abandoned. The summits with world leaders have been a wholesale embarrassment. His "I hire the best people" is now a punchline. His picking trade wars with our allies is a move that will leave economists shaking their heads for decades.

The thread is about who you voted for and why. Politics is a profession. Sorry. But it is. It is best left to the professionals. The only thing more inexplicable than most of the embarrassments that this administration is responsible for is that principled conservatives on this board and not have remained mum in their addressing this malfeasance. It speaks to the need to have people in office who realize that this is not a vanity play but the livelihoods (and in some cases the lives) of the people they represent are in the balance. I voted for HRC because she was easily the best qualified person for the position that was on the ballot. The 544 days that Trump has been in office has highlighted how ill prepared he was for the job from a character standpoint, a policy standpoint, and a simple energy standpoint.

It is good to see you have found your voice again after a year in the wilderness. I have no comment on trumps private behavior except to say all of us have skeletons in our closets. All your policy points are factually untrue but fox did not want this to degenerate to a hatefest so you get a pass.

 

[Kosh]

We know the far left will be against anything that Trump wants.

He wants peace on Earth and the far left is against that!

 

[Foxfyre]

I hear Trump voters having one of more of these motivations, based on many interviews on TV:

1) single or two issues, like abortion and gun rights
2) just had heartburn for Hillary or they just hate women or think women cannot possibly be competent
3) want a "tough" guy that will push around and threaten the rest of the world
4) wanted change, but didn't understand what the real disfunction in Congress was because they never watch the news

Whatever the reason they give, there is one thing for sure about Trump voters:

They are willing to abandon all morals, ethics and even put up with criminal behavior to get their way. Even if the regime is in it for personal gain, it's okay with them.

Hillary voters on the other hand had these motivations:

1) protect our Democracy from corruption
2) give everyone a chance to achieve the "American Dream", particularly through education
3) provide support to those in need
4) remove the influence of big money from Congress
5) balance the budget by raising taxes on the top .1%
6) reduce taxes on corporations
7) make the streets and schools safer for us and our children
8) make the world a safer place by cooperating with our allies
9) provide a cost-effective healthcare system by modifying Obamacare or going to a government-run healthcare system

Hillary voters understand that:

• words matter
• the President's behavior is a reflection of the entire country's values
• we believe in the ideology set forth in the US Constitution
• we believe that the President is not above the law, noone is above the law

On any poll you want to look at, yes Trump supporters will be all for protecting our liberties as defined in the Bill of Rights, but abortion is way WAY down on their list of priorities. So you are getting that one wrong.

As for corruption in government, it is hard to make a case for the Obama Administration, including Hillary Clinton, scoring really high on that front.

How to achieve the American dream is one of the deep divisions between the American right and left I think. The left thinks government can give the American dream to the people, i.e. takes the socialist/even Marxist view. The right sees the keys to the American dream as based in individual values, integrity, initiative, responsibility, accountability, work ethic, and vision and all that can rise to the top if government gets out of the way and allows liberty to reign.

The left wants the central government to control policy on education even as they refuse to acknowledge that the USA spends more than any other country on education but lags well behind almost every developed country in how well we are educating our children.

So the right sees that as sufficient reason to get the federal government out of education and return that responsibility to the local school boards, parents, and teachers.

As for welfare, the left sees that as a basic right and refuses to see any immorality in government confiscating wealth from those who earn it and transferring it to those who don't. They refuse to acknowledge how poorly designed and administrated welfare program create generations of dependency on government. Perhaps that dependency is the goal of many, especially those who desire power. The right sees it as Benjamin Franklin did, i.e. we serve the poor best not by making them comfortable in poverty but by leading and/or driving them out of it.

As for influence of big money in Congress, I rather think it is the other way around. When the federal government has the power to do anything to anybody, it can pretty well dictate what big money will contribute to its campaign coffers and super pacs.

If you can point to ANY occasion that raising the taxes on the top 1% overall benefited those less wealthy in any way or balanced the budget, please provide that data. Otherwise I will point to the only balanced budget in my lifetime which was under Clinton and a serious 'tea party like' reformer majority in Congress who lowered taxes on the top 1%. And I, like most on the right, will continue to believe that government cannot hurt the rich without hurting the poor more.

We agree on reducing taxes on corporations. President Trump and the Republicans in Congress did that recently without a single Democratic vote and with all the Democratic leaders, including Hillary and Berfnie, condemning it.

So long as the left promotes amnesty for all, open borders, and turns a blind eye to the crime and violence in our own country, making excuses for it in many cases, I can't believe that is the group who should be in charge of our homeland security, law enforcement, or international relations or world peace.

And that is why I voted for President Trump who has not disappointed on any of those issues so far. And why I believe Hillary would have been disastrous on most or all.

 

[task0778]

I hear Trump voters having one of more of these motivations, based on many interviews on TV:

1) single or two issues, like abortion and gun rights
2) just had heartburn for Hillary or they just hate women or think women cannot possibly be competent
3) want a "tough" guy that will push around and threaten the rest of the world
4) wanted change, but didn't understand what the real disfunction in Congress was because they never watch the news

Whatever the reason they give, there is one thing for sure about Trump voters:

They are willing to abandon all morals, ethics and even put up with criminal behavior to get their way. Even if the regime is in it for personal gain, it's okay with them.

Hillary voters on the other hand had these motivations:

1) protect our Democracy from corruption
2) give everyone a chance to achieve the "American Dream", particularly through education
3) provide support to those in need
4) remove the influence of big money from Congress
5) balance the budget by raising taxes on the top .1%
6) reduce taxes on corporations
7) make the streets and schools safer for us and our children
8) make the world a safer place by cooperating with our allies
9) provide a cost-effective healthcare system by modifying Obamacare or going to a government-run healthcare system

Hillary voters understand that:

• words matter
• the President's behavior is a reflection of the entire country's values
• we believe in the ideology set forth in the US Constitution
• we believe that the President is not above the law, noone is above the law

On any poll you want to look at, yes Trump supporters will be all for protecting our liberties as defined in the Bill of Rights, but abortion is way WAY down on their list of priorities. So you are getting that one wrong.

As for corruption in government, it is hard to make a case for the Obama Administration, including Hillary Clinton, scoring really high on that front.

How to achieve the American dream is one of the deep divisions between the American right and left I think. The left thinks government can give the American dream to the people, i.e. takes the socialist/even Marxist view. The right sees the keys to the American dream as based in individual values, integrity, initiative, responsibility, accountability, work ethic, and vision and all that can rise to the top if government gets out of the way and allows liberty to reign.

The left wants the central government to control policy on education even as they refuse to acknowledge that the USA spends more than any other country on education but lags well behind almost every developed country in how well we are educating our children.

So the right sees that as sufficient reason to get the federal government out of education and return that responsibility to the local school boards, parents, and teachers.

As for welfare, the left sees that as a basic right and refuses to see any immorality in government confiscating wealth from those who earn it and transferring it to those who don't. They refuse to acknowledge how poorly designed and administrated welfare program create generations of dependency on government. Perhaps that dependency is the goal of many, especially those who desire power. The right sees it as Benjamin Franklin did, i.e. we serve the poor best not by making them comfortable in poverty but by leading and/or driving them out of it.

As for influence of big money in Congress, I rather think it is the other way around. When the federal government has the power to do anything to anybody, it can pretty well dictate what big money will contribute to its campaign coffers and super pacs.

If you can point to ANY occasion that raising the taxes on the top 1% overall benefited those less wealthy in any way or balanced the budget, please provide that data. Otherwise I will point to the only balanced budget in my lifetime which was under Clinton and a serious 'tea party like' reformer majority in Congress who lowered taxes on the top 1%. And I, like most on the right, will continue to believe that government cannot hurt the rich without hurting the poor more.

We agree on reducing taxes on corporations. President Trump and the Republicans in Congress did that recently without a single Democratic vote and with all the Democratic leaders, including Hillary, condemning it.

So long as the left promotes amnesty for all, open borders, and turns a blind eye to the crime and violence in our own country, making excuses for it in many cases, I can't believe that is the group who should be in charge of our homeland security, law enforcement, or international relations or world peace.

And that is why I voted for President Trump who has not disappointed on any of those issues so far. And why I believe Hillary would have been disastrous on most or all.

Well said. I also like what Trump has done on the international stage:

Gave North Korea the option to give up their nuclear ambitions and become a more prosperous nation, pretty much the same as Obama did with Cuba. We didn't give up nothin' but a little time, so let's see what happens.

He bombed the Syrians and the Russians who were using chem weapons, Obama didn't have the balls to do that. Kerry told us these weapons were 100% gone.

He sent lethal weapons to the Ukrainians, Obama sent them blankets and canned goods.

He appears to be forcing the Europeans to increase their defense spending, I doubt Putin likes that very much. I believe we have agreed to send Poland some anti-missile systems, I doubt Putin likes that very much either.

We are going to compete with Russia in selling LNG to Europe, that's Putin's bread and butter.

Now - do I like this tariff business? NO. I think there are probably better ways to get foreign countries to come to the table and stop screwing us over on trade deals, but Trump has put the issue front and center and forcing every other country to weigh their options. It's kind of early to be making any judgments about the wisdom or lack thereof until we see how it works out. Will we end up with a full-blown trade war that nobody wants, or better and more equal trade deals.

When I look at the Dems I see the same shit I detested in 2016 and before that. And if anything they've moved further Left, and I cannot support them even though I personally do not care for Trump's character or attitude. IMHO, he's an a-hole, but he's an a-hole that is getting things done better than his previous predecessors did.

 

[Picaro]

It's worth noting it's Iranian terrorist influence that is standing in the way of a dozen viable pipeline projects into Europe from non-Russian sources, hence the Russian-Iranian alliance and its importance beyond just Syria and the Russian naval base there.

 

[Foxfyre]

I hear Trump voters having one of more of these motivations, based on many interviews on TV:

1) single or two issues, like abortion and gun rights
2) just had heartburn for Hillary or they just hate women or think women cannot possibly be competent
3) want a "tough" guy that will push around and threaten the rest of the world
4) wanted change, but didn't understand what the real disfunction in Congress was because they never watch the news

Whatever the reason they give, there is one thing for sure about Trump voters:

They are willing to abandon all morals, ethics and even put up with criminal behavior to get their way. Even if the regime is in it for personal gain, it's okay with them.

Hillary voters on the other hand had these motivations:

1) protect our Democracy from corruption
2) give everyone a chance to achieve the "American Dream", particularly through education
3) provide support to those in need
4) remove the influence of big money from Congress
5) balance the budget by raising taxes on the top .1%
6) reduce taxes on corporations
7) make the streets and schools safer for us and our children
8) make the world a safer place by cooperating with our allies
9) provide a cost-effective healthcare system by modifying Obamacare or going to a government-run healthcare system

Hillary voters understand that:

• words matter
• the President's behavior is a reflection of the entire country's values
• we believe in the ideology set forth in the US Constitution
• we believe that the President is not above the law, noone is above the law

On any poll you want to look at, yes Trump supporters will be all for protecting our liberties as defined in the Bill of Rights, but abortion is way WAY down on their list of priorities. So you are getting that one wrong.

As for corruption in government, it is hard to make a case for the Obama Administration, including Hillary Clinton, scoring really high on that front.

How to achieve the American dream is one of the deep divisions between the American right and left I think. The left thinks government can give the American dream to the people, i.e. takes the socialist/even Marxist view. The right sees the keys to the American dream as based in individual values, integrity, initiative, responsibility, accountability, work ethic, and vision and all that can rise to the top if government gets out of the way and allows liberty to reign.

The left wants the central government to control policy on education even as they refuse to acknowledge that the USA spends more than any other country on education but lags well behind almost every developed country in how well we are educating our children.

So the right sees that as sufficient reason to get the federal government out of education and return that responsibility to the local school boards, parents, and teachers.

As for welfare, the left sees that as a basic right and refuses to see any immorality in government confiscating wealth from those who earn it and transferring it to those who don't. They refuse to acknowledge how poorly designed and administrated welfare program create generations of dependency on government. Perhaps that dependency is the goal of many, especially those who desire power. The right sees it as Benjamin Franklin did, i.e. we serve the poor best not by making them comfortable in poverty but by leading and/or driving them out of it.

As for influence of big money in Congress, I rather think it is the other way around. When the federal government has the power to do anything to anybody, it can pretty well dictate what big money will contribute to its campaign coffers and super pacs.

If you can point to ANY occasion that raising the taxes on the top 1% overall benefited those less wealthy in any way or balanced the budget, please provide that data. Otherwise I will point to the only balanced budget in my lifetime which was under Clinton and a serious 'tea party like' reformer majority in Congress who lowered taxes on the top 1%. And I, like most on the right, will continue to believe that government cannot hurt the rich without hurting the poor more.

We agree on reducing taxes on corporations. President Trump and the Republicans in Congress did that recently without a single Democratic vote and with all the Democratic leaders, including Hillary, condemning it.

So long as the left promotes amnesty for all, open borders, and turns a blind eye to the crime and violence in our own country, making excuses for it in many cases, I can't believe that is the group who should be in charge of our homeland security, law enforcement, or international relations or world peace.

And that is why I voted for President Trump who has not disappointed on any of those issues so far. And why I believe Hillary would have been disastrous on most or all.

Well said. I also like what Trump has done on the international stage:

Gave North Korea the option to give up their nuclear ambitions and become a more prosperous nation, pretty much the same as Obama did with Cuba. We didn't give up nothin' but a little time, so let's see what happens.

He bombed the Syrians and the Russians who were using chem weapons, Obama didn't have the balls to do that. Kerry told us these weapons were 100% gone.

He sent lethal weapons to the Ukrainians, Obama sent them blankets and canned goods.

He appears to be forcing the Europeans to increase their defense spending, I doubt Putin likes that very much. I believe we have agreed to send Poland some anti-missile systems, I doubt Putin likes that very much either.

We are going to compete with Russia in selling LNG to Europe, that's Putin's bread and butter.

Now - do I like this tariff business? NO. I think there are probably better ways to get foreign countries to come to the table and stop screwing us over on trade deals, but Trump has put the issue front and center and forcing every other country to weigh their options. It's kind of early to be making any judgments about the wisdom or lack thereof until we see how it works out. Will we end up with a full-blown trade war that nobody wants, or better and more equal trade deals.

When I look at the Dems I see the same shit I detested in 2016 and before that. And if anything they've moved further Left, and I cannot support them even though I personally do not care for Trump's character or attitude. IMHO, he's an a-hole, but he's an a-hole that is getting things done better than his previous predecessors did.

President Trump's communication styles of course keeps everything stirred up--some of it I think is just poking a hateful media et al with a stick and some of it self inflicted wounds. But after listening to Secretary Pompeo's interview with Shannon Bream tonight, I felt a real relief and assurance that all is well. He has a way of putting it succinctly but clearly as President Trump sometimes has difficulty doing.

 

[candycorn]

I'm struck by the overwhelming (I put it at 95+ percent) of Trump voters who voted for John McCain in 2008. And in 6 years, they will vote for someone who looks more like McCain than Trump again. It speaks to the amount of self-deception that republicans are currently undergoing where they have been coerced into lending not only support but allegiance to this incredibly inept, aloof, and frankly stupid person who has to write notes like "I hear you" and "No collusion"....to himself.

Contrast that to the Democratic nominees of Obama and Hilary Clinton. It would be difficult to detect much difference between the two; perhaps in policy but not philosophy. Democrats will not have to explain to their kids why they supported someone so outside of not only their own personal values but outside of the accepted norms in society. Most people do not sleep with porn stars that (and this is verified) tell the "actress" that "you remind me of my daughter".

As for policies, few can point to a policy that has made much of a difference to most Americans. The tax breaks have largely gone to the uber wealthy and to corporations who quickly pocketed the money. Wages have not increased. The CPI and PPI are surging. Unemployment has continued it's downward trend that started soon after Obama took over for the previous republican disaster. As for campaign promises; Trump has kept few. "We're going to take care of everyone" (10/14/15) has turned into a repeal of the ACA and a return to the bad old days where insurance companies can refuse to issue you coverage for PECs. Our military is not stronger in any measurable way. The infrastructure plan has been abandoned. The summits with world leaders have been a wholesale embarrassment. His "I hire the best people" is now a punchline. His picking trade wars with our allies is a move that will leave economists shaking their heads for decades.

The thread is about who you voted for and why. Politics is a profession. Sorry. But it is. It is best left to the professionals. The only thing more inexplicable than most of the embarrassments that this administration is responsible for is that principled conservatives on this board and not have remained mum in their addressing this malfeasance. It speaks to the need to have people in office who realize that this is not a vanity play but the livelihoods (and in some cases the lives) of the people they represent are in the balance. I voted for HRC because she was easily the best qualified person for the position that was on the ballot. The 544 days that Trump has been in office has highlighted how ill prepared he was for the job from a character standpoint, a policy standpoint, and a simple energy standpoint.

It is good to see you have found your voice again after a year in the wilderness. I have no comment on trumps private behavior except to say all of us have skeletons in our closets. All your policy points are factually untrue but fox did not want this to degenerate to a hatefest so you get a pass.

None of them are remotely untrue.

 

[Kosh]

I'm struck by the overwhelming (I put it at 95+ percent) of Trump voters who voted for John McCain in 2008. And in 6 years, they will vote for someone who looks more like McCain than Trump again. It speaks to the amount of self-deception that republicans are currently undergoing where they have been coerced into lending not only support but allegiance to this incredibly inept, aloof, and frankly stupid person who has to write notes like "I hear you" and "No collusion"....to himself.

Contrast that to the Democratic nominees of Obama and Hilary Clinton. It would be difficult to detect much difference between the two; perhaps in policy but not philosophy. Democrats will not have to explain to their kids why they supported someone so outside of not only their own personal values but outside of the accepted norms in society. Most people do not sleep with porn stars that (and this is verified) tell the "actress" that "you remind me of my daughter".

As for policies, few can point to a policy that has made much of a difference to most Americans. The tax breaks have largely gone to the uber wealthy and to corporations who quickly pocketed the money. Wages have not increased. The CPI and PPI are surging. Unemployment has continued it's downward trend that started soon after Obama took over for the previous republican disaster. As for campaign promises; Trump has kept few. "We're going to take care of everyone" (10/14/15) has turned into a repeal of the ACA and a return to the bad old days where insurance companies can refuse to issue you coverage for PECs. Our military is not stronger in any measurable way. The infrastructure plan has been abandoned. The summits with world leaders have been a wholesale embarrassment. His "I hire the best people" is now a punchline. His picking trade wars with our allies is a move that will leave economists shaking their heads for decades.

The thread is about who you voted for and why. Politics is a profession. Sorry. But it is. It is best left to the professionals. The only thing more inexplicable than most of the embarrassments that this administration is responsible for is that principled conservatives on this board and not have remained mum in their addressing this malfeasance. It speaks to the need to have people in office who realize that this is not a vanity play but the livelihoods (and in some cases the lives) of the people they represent are in the balance. I voted for HRC because she was easily the best qualified person for the position that was on the ballot. The 544 days that Trump has been in office has highlighted how ill prepared he was for the job from a character standpoint, a policy standpoint, and a simple energy standpoint.

It is good to see you have found your voice again after a year in the wilderness. I have no comment on trumps private behavior except to say all of us have skeletons in our closets. All your policy points are factually untrue but fox did not want this to degenerate to a hatefest so you get a pass.

None of them are remotely untrue.

Of course they are, they are all far left religious dogma.

So if you have any real proof not from far left sources, please post them..

 

[Foxfyre]

Fox I haven’t seen you in a long time. Hope you are doing well.

I didn’t see anything in the poll that I could pick, so let me wing it.

What is missing from most of these posts is context. I never started out with the person, I start out with the country, the constitution , our history and the best way of preserving these for future generations. For instance, no matter how “qualified” Hilary was she was for Hilary, not for America. Trump, in spite of his abrasive style, volunteered, let me say that again, volunteered to try and get the country back on an American track. In short, there are principles that need to be preserved AND promoted, American, constitutional, and liberty principles. All of us carry a torch that we have to pass on to the next generation. That is my yardstick for candidates.

None of this is a zero sum game. As the little socialist cutiein New York, shows, the us could have its own system used to overthrow itself. And she brought so many democratic socialists who are also elected officials out of the closet that the democrats have real election problems. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Voting for the right candidates for the right reasons is part of eternal vigilance.

That is pretty much my position actually--I just am a lot wordier than you --except that I don't think Donald Trump is a despicable person. To me he is a flawed, imperfect person, as we all are to some extent. But I look at those that the Bible relates that God chose to do great things--not a perfect person in the lot. Some were deeply flawed. And I look at those figures in extra-Biblical and post-Biblical history who have literally changed the world for the better. All of those have been flawed, imperfect persons too, most who would never be deemed acceptable under modern political correctness criteria; some who would not be acceptable under most people's view of modern day morality. But the world benefited despite their 'despicableness.'

Donald Trump is often unlikable, is sometimes his own enemy, no doubt had done some despicable things. But I honestly think he knows what America most needs and is determined to do what he can to change the slow, steady downward spiral of decline that we have experienced for decades now. And whether his motive is his own legacy or a selfless love of America and Americans, I don't really care. He has offered a vision that I can embrace, and I for one am willing to do what I can to help him achieve it.

The world has often benefited and changed for the good by the vision of one person--somebody willing to step out of the status quo, i.e. one person with a different idea that caught on. Somebody once said that indeed no good significant change has ever happened any other way.

Also no bad significant change has ever happened any other way.

I am of the opinion that the President wants good change.

 

[OldLady]

NOTICE: This is the CDZ so please keep this civil.

After visiting numerous political message boards, watching a LOT of news on various television channels, reading a LOT of commentary from all sides on the political spectrum, and after a LOT of face to face discussions, it seems obvious to me that Trump supporters and those who voted for Hillary or somebody else are just wired differently. And I wonder if it is possible to discuss that without bringing Hillary and Trump or anybody else into it personally? See the question posed at the bottom of the OP.

Among many Issues with widely differing views between Trump supports and Clinton and/or other supporters:

It is a given that Hillary supporters were mostly okay with the existing tax code and size of government and supported higher taxes especially on the rich and/or big business to effect social change and they argue that it is patriotic to pay taxes. Trump supporters mostly believe in smaller government, less regulation, and lower taxes and that people will spend their money more wisely and effectively themselves than the government will spend it for them.

It is a given that Trump supporters are most likely to want conservatives or constitutional originalists on the Supreme Court and in the court system generally while Hillary supporters are most likely to want progressives/leftists on the Supreme Court and in the court system generally.

Also. . .
--the wall--Trump supporters mostly for; Clinton supporters mostly oppose.
--more federal money for welfare and programs--Trump supporters mostly oppose; Clinton supporters mostly support
--racial and gender inequality--far more Clinton supports say this is a serious problem than do Trump supporters.
--parenting--far more Trump supporters say it is important for children to have a mom and dad in the home than do Clinton supporters.
--terrorism--far more Trump supporters want stronger protections than do Clinton supporters.
--free trade--far more Trump supporters support efforts to correct trade imbalances than do Clinton supporters.
--illegal immigration--more Clinton supporters say undocumented immigrants are hard working people who commit no more crimes than the general population than do Trump supporters make that argument. Clinton supporters favor amnesty for all and open borders far more than Trump supporters do.
6 charts that show where Clinton and Trump supporters differ

A recent article in "Christianity Today" suggests that evangelicals supported Hillary more than Trump until recently when Hillary supporters are abandoning evangelicalism.
Study: Clinton Voters Much More Likely to Leave Evangelicalism than Trump Voters

But maybe this is also telling: From a recent "Washington Secrets" column:

Not sure what it means, but Emerson College polling reveals that Trump supporters more than those who backed Hillary Rodham Clinton believe space aliens have visited Earth. Overall, 31 percent believe aliens have landed, but among voters for President Trump, it is 38 percent to Clinton’s 25 percent. [/lndent]
More predictions that Trump White House chief John Kelly is leaving

And those who voted or supported somebody other than Trump or Clinton generally fall into one of those camps when it comes to the issues. And yes, there are many other issues we could have included.
​

QUESTION: Without discussing President Trump or Hillary Clinton (or Bernie Sanders or Gary Johnson or Jill Stein) personally, was your vote strictly against somebody else? Or did you vote along party lines? Or did your vote and current support represent your opinions and/or deepest convictions, and/or hopes?

What is most important to you re the State of the Union at this time? What do you want the policy or direction to be?

For the first time in my voting life, I voted against someone in 2016, and I did not like the choice I was forced to vote for, either.

 

[OldLady]

So I guess it's okay to mention Trump, Hillary, et al now?

 

[pismoe]

i voted and can only say --- Go TRUMP , Make America Great Again OldLady !!

 

[Foxfyre]

NOTICE: This is the CDZ so please keep this civil.

After visiting numerous political message boards, watching a LOT of news on various television channels, reading a LOT of commentary from all sides on the political spectrum, and after a LOT of face to face discussions, it seems obvious to me that Trump supporters and those who voted for Hillary or somebody else are just wired differently. And I wonder if it is possible to discuss that without bringing Hillary and Trump or anybody else into it personally? See the question posed at the bottom of the OP.

Among many Issues with widely differing views between Trump supports and Clinton and/or other supporters:

It is a given that Hillary supporters were mostly okay with the existing tax code and size of government and supported higher taxes especially on the rich and/or big business to effect social change and they argue that it is patriotic to pay taxes. Trump supporters mostly believe in smaller government, less regulation, and lower taxes and that people will spend their money more wisely and effectively themselves than the government will spend it for them.

It is a given that Trump supporters are most likely to want conservatives or constitutional originalists on the Supreme Court and in the court system generally while Hillary supporters are most likely to want progressives/leftists on the Supreme Court and in the court system generally.

Also. . .
--the wall--Trump supporters mostly for; Clinton supporters mostly oppose.
--more federal money for welfare and programs--Trump supporters mostly oppose; Clinton supporters mostly support
--racial and gender inequality--far more Clinton supports say this is a serious problem than do Trump supporters.
--parenting--far more Trump supporters say it is important for children to have a mom and dad in the home than do Clinton supporters.
--terrorism--far more Trump supporters want stronger protections than do Clinton supporters.
--free trade--far more Trump supporters support efforts to correct trade imbalances than do Clinton supporters.
--illegal immigration--more Clinton supporters say undocumented immigrants are hard working people who commit no more crimes than the general population than do Trump supporters make that argument. Clinton supporters favor amnesty for all and open borders far more than Trump supporters do.
6 charts that show where Clinton and Trump supporters differ

A recent article in "Christianity Today" suggests that evangelicals supported Hillary more than Trump until recently when Hillary supporters are abandoning evangelicalism.
Study: Clinton Voters Much More Likely to Leave Evangelicalism than Trump Voters

But maybe this is also telling: From a recent "Washington Secrets" column:

Not sure what it means, but Emerson College polling reveals that Trump supporters more than those who backed Hillary Rodham Clinton believe space aliens have visited Earth. Overall, 31 percent believe aliens have landed, but among voters for President Trump, it is 38 percent to Clinton’s 25 percent. [/lndent]
More predictions that Trump White House chief John Kelly is leaving

And those who voted or supported somebody other than Trump or Clinton generally fall into one of those camps when it comes to the issues. And yes, there are many other issues we could have included.
​

QUESTION: Without discussing President Trump or Hillary Clinton (or Bernie Sanders or Gary Johnson or Jill Stein) personally, was your vote strictly against somebody else? Or did you vote along party lines? Or did your vote and current support represent your opinions and/or deepest convictions, and/or hopes?

What is most important to you re the State of the Union at this time? What do you want the policy or direction to be?

For the first time in my voting life, I voted against someone in 2016, and I did not like the choice I was forced to vote for, either.

I felt that way in 2008.

 

[Foxfyre]

So I guess it's okay to mention Trump, Hillary, et al now?

It is okay to mention them--they are mentioned in the poll options and extensively in the OP. I just don't want this to be yet another bash Trump or bash Hillary and/or Obama thread but a discussion of WHY we support who we support, i.e. the issues they promote. And it is really sad if our only motivation is based on hatred or contempt of somebody.

 

[miketx]

I voted against the further destruction of America by voting against Clinton.

 

[oldsoul]

QUESTION: Without discussing President Trump or Hillary Clinton (or Bernie Sanders or Gary Johnson or Jill Stein) personally, was your vote strictly against somebody else? Or did you vote along party lines? Or did your vote and current support represent your opinions and/or deepest convictions, and/or hopes?

What is most important to you re the State of the Union at this time? What do you want the policy or direction to be?

My vote was primarily against TWO people. I didn't like Trump (he seemed too undiplomatic), and I fear the core principles of Clinton (which is to say she has none). So, I had to scout out the field, and held my nose when I voted for the 3rd party I thought had the best platform.

As to what I see as the most important issue of the day? Well, no one seems to want to talk much about it. And that is what is most concerning about it. There are many important issues today, from immigration, to Russia, to trade, North Korea, the list is quite long. However, has anyone else noticed that whenever these topics are discussed, the "discussion" inevitably breaks down? Insults are thrown, the flamethrowers come out, and no one is listening anymore. This has spilled out, in very dramatic fashion, into our national politics. Just look at the way the candidates on the Republican side treated each other. Then, the nominees, both Trump and Clinton (and to a lesser degree 3rd party people), followed suit. The country divided, mostly between Trump supporters and Clinton supporters, and tried to shout each other down. This happened on BOTH sides of that one. On one side you've got people calling Clinton a criminal, and on the other side you've got people calling Trump a Nazi/Fascist. Is either accusation true and correct? No, Trump is a LOT of things, fascist is not one of them, likewise Clinton (whether or not she did something illegal, ie state secrets on a private server...)has NEVER been convicted of a thing. Yet the clashes continue. Why? Simple, most people have chosen a side, put their self-worth on the line (to varying degrees), and will defend "their side" regardless of facts, or reason. Some, I repeat in all caps, SOME people are even willing to go further than just words. Thankfully, this is a minority, regardless of what the MSM would have you believe, but a very loud and vocal minority. A still smaller percentage of these people have taken to threats, and even violence. Of course, sense "if it bleeds, it leads", the most dramatic stuff gets the most coverage, so the perception is that it is more prevalent than it is. For example:

"Oh, my God." People say. We have to do something. But wait there's more:

So, more shootings at school, but fewer murders overall. So, what gives?
Well....

Hum... So, In 1990, we banned guns in schools, and 15 or so years later the school shooting rate had more than doubled? Seems to be a correlation here, at least casually. Who's giving you these things to even think about? Noone. Everyone, in the MSM is trying to gin up support for "their side" so they won't give you all the facts. See where I'm going here?

Didn't think so. We have gotten lazy and comfortable with the state of things in our country. People want their "news" in 144 characters or less. "I don't have time to do the work myself" seems to be what most people are hiding behind. I say "hiding behind" because that is exactly what we are doing, I include myself in this. Ask yourself, "What is more important than leaving society in better, or at least the same, condition than you found it in?" Work? Friends? A new car? Kids? Ok, I'll give you kids, nothing comes before them. Seriously, what are you soo busy with that you cannot find the time to make sure you are leaving your kids with something better than you had. I'm not talking about stuff, money, education, etc. I'm talking about a country and society that is such that the rest of it even matters. Our founders wrote, "...we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor." What are YOU willing to pledge to YOUR country? Do you think you could spare an hour or two a week? Others are pledging their LIVES, think you could spare a few MINUTES of yours?

 

[Foxfyre]

QUESTION: Without discussing President Trump or Hillary Clinton (or Bernie Sanders or Gary Johnson or Jill Stein) personally, was your vote strictly against somebody else? Or did you vote along party lines? Or did your vote and current support represent your opinions and/or deepest convictions, and/or hopes?

What is most important to you re the State of the Union at this time? What do you want the policy or direction to be?

My vote was primarily against TWO people. I didn't like Trump (he seemed too undiplomatic), and I fear the core principles of Clinton (which is to say she has none). So, I had to scout out the field, and held my nose when I voted for the 3rd party I thought had the best platform.

As to what I see as the most important issue of the day? Well, no one seems to want to talk much about it. And that is what is most concerning about it. There are many important issues today, from immigration, to Russia, to trade, North Korea, the list is quite long. However, has anyone else noticed that whenever these topics are discussed, the "discussion" inevitably breaks down? Insults are thrown, the flamethrowers come out, and no one is listening anymore. This has spilled out, in very dramatic fashion, into our national politics. Just look at the way the candidates on the Republican side treated each other. Then, the nominees, both Trump and Clinton (and to a lesser degree 3rd party people), followed suit. The country divided, mostly between Trump supporters and Clinton supporters, and tried to shout each other down. This happened on BOTH sides of that one. On one side you've got people calling Clinton a criminal, and on the other side you've got people calling Trump a Nazi/Fascist. Is either accusation true and correct? No, Trump is a LOT of things, fascist is not one of them, likewise Clinton (whether or not she did something illegal, ie state secrets on a private server...)has NEVER been convicted of a thing. Yet the clashes continue. Why? Simple, most people have chosen a side, put their self-worth on the line (to varying degrees), and will defend "their side" regardless of facts, or reason. Some, I repeat in all caps, SOME people are even willing to go further than just words. Thankfully, this is a minority, regardless of what the MSM would have you believe, but a very loud and vocal minority. A still smaller percentage of these people have taken to threats, and even violence. Of course, sense "if it bleeds, it leads", the most dramatic stuff gets the most coverage, so the perception is that it is more prevalent than it is. For example:

"Oh, my God." People say. We have to do something. But wait there's more:

So, more shootings at school, but fewer murders overall. So, what gives?
Well....

Hum... So, In 1990, we banned guns in schools, and 15 or so years later the school shooting rate had more than doubled? Seems to be a correlation here, at least casually. Who's giving you these things to even think about? Noone. Everyone, in the MSM is trying to gin up support for "their side" so they won't give you all the facts. See where I'm going here?

Didn't think so. We have gotten lazy and comfortable with the state of things in our country. People want their "news" in 144 characters or less. "I don't have time to do the work myself" seems to be what most people are hiding behind. I say "hiding behind" because that is exactly what we are doing, I include myself in this. Ask yourself, "What is more important than leaving society in better, or at least the same, condition than you found it in?" Work? Friends? A new car? Kids? Ok, I'll give you kids, nothing comes before them. Seriously, what are you soo busy with that you cannot find the time to make sure you are leaving your kids with something better than you had. I'm not talking about stuff, money, education, etc. I'm talking about a country and society that is such that the rest of it even matters. Our founders wrote, "...we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor." What are YOU willing to pledge to YOUR country? Do you think you could spare an hour or two a week? Others are pledging their LIVES, think you could spare a few MINUTES of yours?

Very well thought out post, and though we don't agree on every point, we certainly agree in the overall conclusions to be drawn.

Yesterday a group of Maxine Waters supporters gathered outside her office to protest a group of Oathkeepers who were reportedly going to gather there. (Oathkeepers pretty much invariably stage legal, law abiding, and peaceful demonstrations/protests.) No Oathkeepers showed up, but Maxine's supporters blocked a passing pickup, terrorized the driver, ripped an American flag off it, and proceeded to trample and burn the flag. Maxine Waters, a sitting congresswoman, offered no rebuke to the flag burners, but issued her official statement: “The Oath Keepers would like nothing more than to inflame racial tensions and create an explosive conflict in our community.”

And that is where we are. A nation in which leaders condone behavior like that, even applaud it, who do nothing to speak out against those who would assault people in theaters, restaurants, and other public places and deny them to enjoy themselves in peace. A nation in which leaders do not speak out against censorship of 'unpopular' opinion, violent crowds assaulting, blocking entrance to, and/or shouting down any who would presume to offer an 'unpopular' point of view even when invited to do so.

And because there is no leadership on one side of the national conversation/debate willing to call for diversity and inclusiveness, let alone lawfulness and civility, the national environment becomes increasingly angry, lawless, hateful, threatening, disruptive, and on occasion dangerous.

The very Americans who once championed diversity and inclusiveness are now the most intolerant and militantly opposed to diversity and willing to actively attack any 'heretics' pretty much, with few exceptions, than any other people on the planet.

And that cannot be laid at the feet of the current President who has a vision of America at work again, providing opportunity and liberty for all again, an America that is prosperous, ambitious, hopeful, and confident in its future.

And that's why I voted for President Trump despite his totally unorthodox and on occasion obnoxious style of campaigning and governing. I didn't want a diplomat or a professional politician. I was sick and tired of a status quo that continued to erode our liberties and had the USA in a slow steady spiral of decline. I wanted somebody who would identify the root of the problems we have and who would be willing to act and lead us toward solutions. He has not disappointed.

 

[candycorn]

QUESTION: Without discussing President Trump or Hillary Clinton (or Bernie Sanders or Gary Johnson or Jill Stein) personally, was your vote strictly against somebody else? Or did you vote along party lines? Or did your vote and current support represent your opinions and/or deepest convictions, and/or hopes?

What is most important to you re the State of the Union at this time? What do you want the policy or direction to be?

My vote was primarily against TWO people. I didn't like Trump (he seemed too undiplomatic), and I fear the core principles of Clinton (which is to say she has none). So, I had to scout out the field, and held my nose when I voted for the 3rd party I thought had the best platform.

As to what I see as the most important issue of the day? Well, no one seems to want to talk much about it. And that is what is most concerning about it. There are many important issues today, from immigration, to Russia, to trade, North Korea, the list is quite long. However, has anyone else noticed that whenever these topics are discussed, the "discussion" inevitably breaks down? Insults are thrown, the flamethrowers come out, and no one is listening anymore. This has spilled out, in very dramatic fashion, into our national politics. Just look at the way the candidates on the Republican side treated each other. Then, the nominees, both Trump and Clinton (and to a lesser degree 3rd party people), followed suit. The country divided, mostly between Trump supporters and Clinton supporters, and tried to shout each other down. This happened on BOTH sides of that one. On one side you've got people calling Clinton a criminal, and on the other side you've got people calling Trump a Nazi/Fascist. Is either accusation true and correct? No, Trump is a LOT of things, fascist is not one of them, likewise Clinton (whether or not she did something illegal, ie state secrets on a private server...)has NEVER been convicted of a thing. Yet the clashes continue. Why? Simple, most people have chosen a side, put their self-worth on the line (to varying degrees), and will defend "their side" regardless of facts, or reason. Some, I repeat in all caps, SOME people are even willing to go further than just words. Thankfully, this is a minority, regardless of what the MSM would have you believe, but a very loud and vocal minority. A still smaller percentage of these people have taken to threats, and even violence. Of course, sense "if it bleeds, it leads", the most dramatic stuff gets the most coverage, so the perception is that it is more prevalent than it is. For example:

"Oh, my God." People say. We have to do something. But wait there's more:

So, more shootings at school, but fewer murders overall. So, what gives?
Well....

Hum... So, In 1990, we banned guns in schools, and 15 or so years later the school shooting rate had more than doubled? Seems to be a correlation here, at least casually. Who's giving you these things to even think about? Noone. Everyone, in the MSM is trying to gin up support for "their side" so they won't give you all the facts. See where I'm going here?

Didn't think so. We have gotten lazy and comfortable with the state of things in our country. People want their "news" in 144 characters or less. "I don't have time to do the work myself" seems to be what most people are hiding behind. I say "hiding behind" because that is exactly what we are doing, I include myself in this. Ask yourself, "What is more important than leaving society in better, or at least the same, condition than you found it in?" Work? Friends? A new car? Kids? Ok, I'll give you kids, nothing comes before them. Seriously, what are you soo busy with that you cannot find the time to make sure you are leaving your kids with something better than you had. I'm not talking about stuff, money, education, etc. I'm talking about a country and society that is such that the rest of it even matters. Our founders wrote, "...we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor." What are YOU willing to pledge to YOUR country? Do you think you could spare an hour or two a week? Others are pledging their LIVES, think you could spare a few MINUTES of yours?

Very well thought out post, and though we don't agree on every point, we certainly agree in the overall conclusions to be drawn.

Yesterday a group of Maxine Waters supporters gathered outside her office to protest a group of Oathkeepers who were reportedly going to gather there. (Oathkeepers pretty much invariably stage legal, law abiding, and peaceful demonstrations/protests.) No Oathkeepers showed up, but Maxine's supporters blocked a passing pickup, terrorized the driver, ripped an American flag off it, and proceeded to trample and burn the flag. Maxine Waters, a sitting congresswoman, offered no rebuke to the flag burners, but issued her official statement: “The Oath Keepers would like nothing more than to inflame racial tensions and create an explosive conflict in our community.”

And that is where we are. A nation in which leaders condone behavior like that, even applaud it, who do nothing to speak out against those who would assault people in theaters, restaurants, and other public places and deny them to enjoy themselves in peace. A nation in which leaders do not speak out against censorship of 'unpopular' opinion, violent crowds assaulting, blocking entrance to, and/or shouting down any who would presume to offer an 'unpopular' point of view even when invited to do so.

And because there is no leadership on one side of the national conversation/debate willing to call for diversity and inclusiveness, let alone lawfulness and civility, the national environment becomes increasingly angry, lawless, hateful, threatening, disruptive, and on occasion dangerous.

The very Americans who once championed diversity and inclusiveness are now the most intolerant and militantly opposed to diversity and willing to actively attack any 'heretics' pretty much, with few exceptions, than any other people on the planet.

And that cannot be laid at the feet of the current President who has a vision of America at work again, providing opportunity and liberty for all again, an America that is prosperous, ambitious, hopeful, and confident in its future.

And that's why I voted for President Trump despite his totally unorthodox and on occasion obnoxious style of campaigning and governing. I didn't want a diplomat or a professional politician. I was sick and tired of a status quo that continued to erode our liberties and had the USA in a slow steady spiral of decline. I wanted somebody who would identify the root of the problems we have and who would be willing to act and lead us toward solutions. He has not disappointed.

You bemoan the actions of one group that uses aggressive means but voted for the guy who wanted protestors “roughed up” at his rallies. The hypocrisy is the truly only remarkable quality about your posts.

 

[candycorn]

Fox I haven’t seen you in a long time. Hope you are doing well.

I didn’t see anything in the poll that I could pick, so let me wing it.

What is missing from most of these posts is context. I never started out with the person, I start out with the country, the constitution , our history and the best way of preserving these for future generations. For instance, no matter how “qualified” Hilary was she was for Hilary, not for America. Trump, in spite of his abrasive style, volunteered, let me say that again, volunteered to try and get the country back on an American track. In short, there are principles that need to be preserved AND promoted, American, constitutional, and liberty principles. All of us carry a torch that we have to pass on to the next generation. That is my yardstick for candidates.

None of this is a zero sum game. As the little socialist cutiein New York, shows, the us could have its own system used to overthrow itself. And she brought so many democratic socialists who are also elected officials out of the closet that the democrats have real election problems. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Voting for the right candidates for the right reasons is part of eternal vigilance.

That is pretty much my position actually--I just am a lot wordier than you --except that I don't think Donald Trump is a despicable person. To me he is a flawed, imperfect person, as we all are to some extent. But I look at those that the Bible relates that God chose to do great things--not a perfect person in the lot. Some were deeply flawed. And I look at those figures in extra-Biblical and post-Biblical history who have literally changed the world for the better. All of those have been flawed, imperfect persons too, most who would never be deemed acceptable under modern political correctness criteria; some who would not be acceptable under most people's view of modern day morality. But the world benefited despite their 'despicableness.'

Donald Trump is often unlikable, is sometimes his own enemy, no doubt had done some despicable things. But I honestly think he knows what America most needs and is determined to do what he can to change the slow, steady downward spiral of decline that we have experienced for decades now. And whether his motive is his own legacy or a selfless love of America and Americans, I don't really care. He has offered a vision that I can embrace, and I for one am willing to do what I can to help him achieve it.

The world has often benefited and changed for the good by the vision of one person--somebody willing to step out of the status quo, i.e. one person with a different idea that caught on. Somebody once said that indeed no good significant change has ever happened any other way.

Also no bad significant change has ever happened any other way.

I am of the opinion that the President wants good change.

How many extramarital affairs would he have to have to become “Despicable”?
How many lies—not disagreements on policy but easily verifiable lies—does he have to tell before he becomes “Despicable”?