JimBowie1958
Old Fogey
- Sep 25, 2011
- 63,590
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It's essentially because the clergy in Christianity do not take their own message seriously themselves.
By 'seriously' I mean being willing to go against the main stream and mean it. Plenty of clergy make a showing of believing their core doctrines, etc, but in private tell a different story. It is plain enough when you observe the kind of members they surround themselves with. If their inner circle actually is known for making hard sacrifices to do what is right, then kudos to them, but they are the exception these days.
I remember when I was growing up how Baptists would debate whether it was a sin for a woman to wear pants. The more moderate preachers would say that men wearing pants was merely a social convention and it would not affect a persons eternal destiny, while others argued that it was a sin for a woman to dress like a man. Historically, Joan of Arc was burned at the stake for doing this, but it seems we have mellowed quite a bit since then.
But when I discussed the subject with moderates, they really didnt seem to have a convincing argument. They spoke mostly of the absurdity, how women are being treated unfair, etc, but not much reference to the Bible.
The ones that wanted such behavior banned and damned as sin made the ole slippery slope argument; now its wearing pants, but in the future it wil be the difference between men and women altogether!
And looking back it would seem that they are right. I have had many ocasions where I heard clergy talking amongst themselves in a fairly honest way, and it was trying to my soul to hear the blasphemy, the slander and the vile wretchedness that would pour from the mouths of these men when they spoke on the assumption that none of it would ever get out.
When I converted to Catholicism, I found I loved the concepts, the system of theology and the deep history that went along with Catholicism. But the church'es lay leadership has on way too many ocasions proven to me that it has no respect for the actual teachings of the church, and is totally over-run with people who pretend to follow the church but do not.
I have seen it in religious retreats, with the admins to Catholic message boards, with Jesuit priests, etc. The hypocrisy is just over-whelming to the point I just cant stand going to mass any more, knowing that the vast majority of the people sitting in the pews with me are using contraceptives, skipping confession and are living in open premarital relationships and no one says a thing.
So why should I give a flip if the priests themselves dont? if the priests are just as happy to surround themselves with the most audacious fakers in the parish?
I cannot leave the church. I made an oath and I will keep it.
But as to the fate of the church, or what might befall it in the near future...I really could not care less any more.
I dont hate the church; I still love it in the abstract. But as to the leadership of the church, I will not do one thing to conform to what they teach any more, period unless they start enforcing their own rules.
The same goes for any other denomination of Christianity as well.
Why bother?
By 'seriously' I mean being willing to go against the main stream and mean it. Plenty of clergy make a showing of believing their core doctrines, etc, but in private tell a different story. It is plain enough when you observe the kind of members they surround themselves with. If their inner circle actually is known for making hard sacrifices to do what is right, then kudos to them, but they are the exception these days.
I remember when I was growing up how Baptists would debate whether it was a sin for a woman to wear pants. The more moderate preachers would say that men wearing pants was merely a social convention and it would not affect a persons eternal destiny, while others argued that it was a sin for a woman to dress like a man. Historically, Joan of Arc was burned at the stake for doing this, but it seems we have mellowed quite a bit since then.
But when I discussed the subject with moderates, they really didnt seem to have a convincing argument. They spoke mostly of the absurdity, how women are being treated unfair, etc, but not much reference to the Bible.
The ones that wanted such behavior banned and damned as sin made the ole slippery slope argument; now its wearing pants, but in the future it wil be the difference between men and women altogether!
And looking back it would seem that they are right. I have had many ocasions where I heard clergy talking amongst themselves in a fairly honest way, and it was trying to my soul to hear the blasphemy, the slander and the vile wretchedness that would pour from the mouths of these men when they spoke on the assumption that none of it would ever get out.
When I converted to Catholicism, I found I loved the concepts, the system of theology and the deep history that went along with Catholicism. But the church'es lay leadership has on way too many ocasions proven to me that it has no respect for the actual teachings of the church, and is totally over-run with people who pretend to follow the church but do not.
I have seen it in religious retreats, with the admins to Catholic message boards, with Jesuit priests, etc. The hypocrisy is just over-whelming to the point I just cant stand going to mass any more, knowing that the vast majority of the people sitting in the pews with me are using contraceptives, skipping confession and are living in open premarital relationships and no one says a thing.
So why should I give a flip if the priests themselves dont? if the priests are just as happy to surround themselves with the most audacious fakers in the parish?
I cannot leave the church. I made an oath and I will keep it.
But as to the fate of the church, or what might befall it in the near future...I really could not care less any more.
I dont hate the church; I still love it in the abstract. But as to the leadership of the church, I will not do one thing to conform to what they teach any more, period unless they start enforcing their own rules.
The same goes for any other denomination of Christianity as well.
Why bother?
