Why I am not a christian

I always found his arrogance to be amusing. His debating techniques are exquisite though and he lays bare his soul in this lecture that his intelligence trumps all faith.

His god is Bertrand Russell you see. :)
 
I always found his arrogance to be amusing. His debating techniques are exquisite though and he lays bare his soul in this lecture that his intelligence trumps all faith.

His god is Bertrand Russell you see. :)

Yes, I was surprised when I saw a book entitled 'why I am not a Christian' in the library and I though, what kind of arrogant bastard could have written that, It must be Bertrand Russell. and I was right. But it turns out to be a lecture not a book written specially. Anyway, now it is on the Internet free to read.
 
I always found his arrogance to be amusing. His debating techniques are exquisite though and he lays bare his soul in this lecture that his intelligence trumps all faith.

His god is Bertrand Russell you see. :)

Yes, I was surprised when I saw a book entitled 'why I am not a Christian' in the library and I though, what kind of arrogant bastard could have written that, It must be Bertrand Russell. and I was right. But it turns out to be a lecture not a book written specially. Anyway, now it is on the Internet free to read.
The main argument I have with Russell is that religion is based on fear.
 
I always found his arrogance to be amusing. His debating techniques are exquisite though and he lays bare his soul in this lecture that his intelligence trumps all faith.

His god is Bertrand Russell you see. :)

Yes, I was surprised when I saw a book entitled 'why I am not a Christian' in the library and I though, what kind of arrogant bastard could have written that, It must be Bertrand Russell. and I was right. But it turns out to be a lecture not a book written specially. Anyway, now it is on the Internet free to read.
The main argument I have with Russell is that religion is based on fear.


Religion is the glue that makes it possible to believe in the various gods. One person talking about worshiping an invisible, magical being would correctly be called crazy but there's safety in numbers.

We have become so accustomed to this insanity that many don't even question the mental status of rabidly delirious believers.
 
“Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly, as I have said, the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. Fear is the basis of the whole thing -- fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. It is because fear is at the basis of those two things. In this world we can now begin a little to understand things, and a little to master them by help of science, which has forced its way step by step against the Christian religion, against the churches, and against the opposition of all the old precepts. Science can help us to get over this craven fear in which mankind has lived for so many generations. Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look around for imaginary supports, no longer to invent allies in the sky, but rather to look to our own efforts here below to make this world a better place to live in, instead of the sort of place that the churches in all these centuries have made it.”

Precisely.

And among the fears that motivate theists is the idea that we should “look to our own efforts...to make this world a better place to live in, instead of the sort of place that the churches in all these centuries have made it[,]” that religion might in time become irrelevant, and correctly understood to be the source of much conflict and human misery, not the solution.
 
I always found his arrogance to be amusing. His debating techniques are exquisite though and he lays bare his soul in this lecture that his intelligence trumps all faith. His god is Bertrand Russell you see. :)
Yes, I was surprised when I saw a book entitled 'why I am not a Christian' in the library and I though, what kind of arrogant bastard could have written that, It must be Bertrand Russell. and I was right. But it turns out to be a lecture not a book written specially. Anyway, now it is on the Internet free to read.
The main argument I have with Russell is that religion is based on fear.
I always found his arrogance to be amusing. His debating techniques are exquisite though and he lays bare his soul in this lecture that his intelligence trumps all faith. His god is Bertrand Russell you see. :)
Yes, I was surprised when I saw a book entitled 'why I am not a Christian' in the library and I though, what kind of arrogant bastard could have written that, It must be Bertrand Russell. and I was right. But it turns out to be a lecture not a book written specially. Anyway, now it is on the Internet free to read.
The main argument I have with Russell is that religion is based on fear.
I always found his arrogance to be amusing. His debating techniques are exquisite though and he lays bare his soul in this lecture that his intelligence trumps all faith. His god is Bertrand Russell you see. :)
Yes, I was surprised when I saw a book entitled 'why I am not a Christian' in the library and I though, what kind of arrogant bastard could have written that, It must be Bertrand Russell. and I was right. But it turns out to be a lecture not a book written specially. Anyway, now it is on the Internet free to read.
The main argument I have with Russell is that religion is based on fear.
Religion is the glue that makes it possible to believe in the various gods. One person talking about worshiping an invisible, magical being would correctly be called crazy but there's safety in numbers. We have become so accustomed to this insanity that many don't even question the mental status of rabidly delirious believers.
I always found his arrogance to be amusing. His debating techniques are exquisite though and he lays bare his soul in this lecture that his intelligence trumps all faith. His god is Bertrand Russell you see. :)
Yes, I was surprised when I saw a book entitled 'why I am not a Christian' in the library and I though, what kind of arrogant bastard could have written that, It must be Bertrand Russell. and I was right. But it turns out to be a lecture not a book written specially. Anyway, now it is on the Internet free to read.
The main argument I have with Russell is that religion is based on fear.
I always found his arrogance to be amusing. His debating techniques are exquisite though and he lays bare his soul in this lecture that his intelligence trumps all faith.

His god is Bertrand Russell you see. :)

Yes, I was surprised when I saw a book entitled 'why I am not a Christian' in the library and I though, what kind of arrogant bastard could have written that, It must be Bertrand Russell. and I was right. But it turns out to be a lecture not a book written specially. Anyway, now it is on the Internet free to read.
The main argument I have with Russell is that religion is based on fear.

In many ways he is correct when he lectures on religion.

He is quite magician with words. He makes a solid case for true. But I am based on faith.

Faith is different from religion. A whole different ballgame baby. A whole new shebang.

When I came to the son thru the father it wasn't in a church. I'm not knocking that way. No no no no no.

But we have to differentiate between faith and religion.
 
“Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly, as I have said, the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. Fear is the basis of the whole thing -- fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. It is because fear is at the basis of those two things. In this world we can now begin a little to understand things, and a little to master them by help of science, which has forced its way step by step against the Christian religion, against the churches, and against the opposition of all the old precepts. Science can help us to get over this craven fear in which mankind has lived for so many generations. Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look around for imaginary supports, no longer to invent allies in the sky, but rather to look to our own efforts here below to make this world a better place to live in, instead of the sort of place that the churches in all these centuries have made it.”

Precisely.

And among the fears that motivate theists is the idea that we should “look to our own efforts...to make this world a better place to live in, instead of the sort of place that the churches in all these centuries have made it[,]” that religion might in time become irrelevant, and correctly understood to be the source of much conflict and human misery, not the solution.

:lol:

Obviously old Bertrand hadn't met a Muslim yet. He would have freaked out completely.

Too funny.
 
I always found his arrogance to be amusing. His debating techniques are exquisite though and he lays bare his soul in this lecture that his intelligence trumps all faith.

His god is Bertrand Russell you see. :)

Yes, I was surprised when I saw a book entitled 'why I am not a Christian' in the library and I though, what kind of arrogant bastard could have written that, It must be Bertrand Russell. and I was right. But it turns out to be a lecture not a book written specially. Anyway, now it is on the Internet free to read.
The main argument I have with Russell is that religion is based on fear.


Religion is the glue that makes it possible to believe in the various gods. One person talking about worshiping an invisible, magical being would correctly be called crazy but there's safety in numbers.

We have become so accustomed to this insanity that many don't even question the mental status of rabidly delirious believers.

Are you going to be the one to tell so many Muslims they are wrong to believe in Christ?
 
I always found his arrogance to be amusing. His debating techniques are exquisite though and he lays bare his soul in this lecture that his intelligence trumps all faith.

His god is Bertrand Russell you see. :)

Yes, I was surprised when I saw a book entitled 'why I am not a Christian' in the library and I though, what kind of arrogant bastard could have written that, It must be Bertrand Russell. and I was right. But it turns out to be a lecture not a book written specially. Anyway, now it is on the Internet free to read.
The main argument I have with Russell is that religion is based on fear.
I'd say you're correct as religions are mans effort to understand the unknowable and the glimpses some humans get of the transcendental consciousness. But fear can enter ones reality because of the daunting task of attaining that knowledge and with the manipulations of man to control and the world in general to the contrary. Fear of change happens also and keeps people stuck in a circular pattern of the comfortable.
 
I always found his arrogance to be amusing. His debating techniques are exquisite though and he lays bare his soul in this lecture that his intelligence trumps all faith.

His god is Bertrand Russell you see. :)

Yes, I was surprised when I saw a book entitled 'why I am not a Christian' in the library and I though, what kind of arrogant bastard could have written that, It must be Bertrand Russell. and I was right. But it turns out to be a lecture not a book written specially. Anyway, now it is on the Internet free to read.
The main argument I have with Russell is that religion is based on fear.


Religion is the glue that makes it possible to believe in the various gods. One person talking about worshiping an invisible, magical being would correctly be called crazy but there's safety in numbers.

We have become so accustomed to this insanity that many don't even question the mental status of rabidly delirious believers.
Idiot.
 
I always found his arrogance to be amusing. His debating techniques are exquisite though and he lays bare his soul in this lecture that his intelligence trumps all faith.

His god is Bertrand Russell you see. :)

Yes, I was surprised when I saw a book entitled 'why I am not a Christian' in the library and I though, what kind of arrogant bastard could have written that, It must be Bertrand Russell. and I was right. But it turns out to be a lecture not a book written specially. Anyway, now it is on the Internet free to read.
The main argument I have with Russell is that religion is based on fear.


Religion is the glue that makes it possible to believe in the various gods. One person talking about worshiping an invisible, magical being would correctly be called crazy but there's safety in numbers.

We have become so accustomed to this insanity that many don't even question the mental status of rabidly delirious believers.


7 Reason why Religion is a Mental Disorder

(1) Hallucinations - the person has invisible friends who (s)he insists are real, and to whom (s)he speaks daily, even though nobody can actually see or hear these friends

(2) Delusions - the patient believes that the invisible person has magical powers to make them rich, cure cancer, bring about world peace, and will do so eventually if asked.

(3) Denial/Inability to learn - though the requests for world peace remain unanswered, even after hundreds of years, the patients persist with the praying behavior, each time expecting different results

(4) Inability to distinguish fantasy from reality - the beliefs are contingent upon ancient mythology being accepted as historical fact.

(5) Paranoia - the belief that anyone who does not share their supernatural concept of reality is "evil," "the devil," "an agent of Satan"

(6) Emotional abuse - religious concepts such as sin, hell, cause feelings of guilt, shame, fear, and other types of emotional "baggage" which can scar the psyche for life

(7) Violence - many patients insist that others should share in their delusions, even to the extent of using harassment and violence.
 
“Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly, as I have said, the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. Fear is the basis of the whole thing -- fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. It is because fear is at the basis of those two things. In this world we can now begin a little to understand things, and a little to master them by help of science, which has forced its way step by step against the Christian religion, against the churches, and against the opposition of all the old precepts. Science can help us to get over this craven fear in which mankind has lived for so many generations. Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look around for imaginary supports, no longer to invent allies in the sky, but rather to look to our own efforts here below to make this world a better place to live in, instead of the sort of place that the churches in all these centuries have made it.”

Precisely.

And among the fears that motivate theists is the idea that we should “look to our own efforts...to make this world a better place to live in, instead of the sort of place that the churches in all these centuries have made it[,]” that religion might in time become irrelevant, and correctly understood to be the source of much conflict and human misery, not the solution.

:lol:

Obviously old Bertrand hadn't met a Muslim yet. He would have freaked out completely.

Too funny.


the Islamic world and Islam is where Christianity was when it was predominant in the world, and before it was defanged and declawed starting with the enlightenment
The Enlightenment (1650-1850) was a period of time characterized by breakthroughs in thinking which steered the world away from religion and more and more toward secularism, humanism, individualism, rationalism, and nationalism.

Of all of these, it was rationalism that more than any other concept defined the Enlightenment, which was also called the “Age of Reason.”

The Middle (Dark) Ages were dominated by the Church and were God-focused. Then came the Renaissance, a time that was more focused on humanity with emphasis on the arts and classical knowledge. The Enlightenment expanded the man-focus even further. At this time the human mind, rational thought, and empirical sciences took center stage. It was an age with total focus on the individual.
 
“Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly, as I have said, the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. Fear is the basis of the whole thing -- fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. It is because fear is at the basis of those two things. In this world we can now begin a little to understand things, and a little to master them by help of science, which has forced its way step by step against the Christian religion, against the churches, and against the opposition of all the old precepts. Science can help us to get over this craven fear in which mankind has lived for so many generations. Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look around for imaginary supports, no longer to invent allies in the sky, but rather to look to our own efforts here below to make this world a better place to live in, instead of the sort of place that the churches in all these centuries have made it.”

Precisely.

And among the fears that motivate theists is the idea that we should “look to our own efforts...to make this world a better place to live in, instead of the sort of place that the churches in all these centuries have made it[,]” that religion might in time become irrelevant, and correctly understood to be the source of much conflict and human misery, not the solution.

:lol:

Obviously old Bertrand hadn't met a Muslim yet. He would have freaked out completely.

Too funny.


the Islamic world and Islam is where Christianity was when it was predominant in the world, and before it was defanged and declawed starting with the enlightenment
The Enlightenment (1650-1850) was a period of time characterized by breakthroughs in thinking which steered the world away from religion and more and more toward secularism, humanism, individualism, rationalism, and nationalism.

Of all of these, it was rationalism that more than any other concept defined the Enlightenment, which was also called the “Age of Reason.”

The Middle (Dark) Ages were dominated by the Church and were God-focused. Then came the Renaissance, a time that was more focused on humanity with emphasis on the arts and classical knowledge. The Enlightenment expanded the man-focus even further. At this time the human mind, rational thought, and empirical sciences took center stage. It was an age with total focus on the individual.


As odd as it may sound, the less religious the Western world became, the better it treated the Jews. Christian fanatics killed Jews for various reasons as we have seen; the secularists, on the other hand, would do no such thing because the fact that a person was of a different religion did not matter to them. (What did matter more in this period was national, rather than religious identity.)

In tandem with secularism, the Enlightenment popularized the concept of individualism - each individual was valued and important, and along with this came an increased emphasis on civil rights.

On the surface, the emphasis on civil rights was good for the Jews. For the first time, the Western world started to look at the Jew as a human being. Edicts of toleration were issued, granting Jews certain basic (even if not equal) rights. One of the first such edict was issued by the French National Assembly in 1791.

The Enlightenment
 
7 Reason why Religion is a Mental Disorder

(1) Hallucinations - the person has invisible friends who (s)he insists are real, and to whom (s)he speaks daily, even though nobody can actually see or hear these friends

(2) Delusions - the patient believes that the invisible person has magical powers to make them rich, cure cancer, bring about world peace, and will do so eventually if asked.

(3) Denial/Inability to learn - though the requests for world peace remain unanswered, even after hundreds of years, the patients persist with the praying behavior, each time expecting different results

(4) Inability to distinguish fantasy from reality - the beliefs are contingent upon ancient mythology being accepted as historical fact.

(5) Paranoia - the belief that anyone who does not share their supernatural concept of reality is "evil," "the devil," "an agent of Satan"

(6) Emotional abuse - religious concepts such as sin, hell, cause feelings of guilt, shame, fear, and other types of emotional "baggage" which can scar the psyche for life

(7) Violence - many patients insist that others should share in their delusions, even to the extent of using harassment and violence.

The trouble with an analysis like this, is that it can all too easily be turned around so that it is the non-believer who has a "mental disorder" or a brain mechanism that is not functioning properly. What I am observing is that unbelievers who have been threatened with hell find some relief in threatening those they see as harassing them with 'straw' mental disorders.

People may want to keep in mind that many believers live their lives without once threatening anyone with hell, but instead work to bring peace, joy, and comfort to family and friends. That is the peace and happiness we offer the world. On behalf of believers, I do apologize to everyone who has felt threatened or crushed. That is not the Gospel message we were asked to announce.
 
7 Reason why Religion is a Mental Disorder

(1) Hallucinations - the person has invisible friends who (s)he insists are real, and to whom (s)he speaks daily, even though nobody can actually see or hear these friends

(2) Delusions - the patient believes that the invisible person has magical powers to make them rich, cure cancer, bring about world peace, and will do so eventually if asked.

(3) Denial/Inability to learn - though the requests for world peace remain unanswered, even after hundreds of years, the patients persist with the praying behavior, each time expecting different results

(4) Inability to distinguish fantasy from reality - the beliefs are contingent upon ancient mythology being accepted as historical fact.

(5) Paranoia - the belief that anyone who does not share their supernatural concept of reality is "evil," "the devil," "an agent of Satan"

(6) Emotional abuse - religious concepts such as sin, hell, cause feelings of guilt, shame, fear, and other types of emotional "baggage" which can scar the psyche for life

(7) Violence - many patients insist that others should share in their delusions, even to the extent of using harassment and violence.

The trouble with an analysis like this, is that it can all too easily be turned around so that it is the non-believer who has a "mental disorder" or a brain mechanism that is not functioning properly. What I am observing is that unbelievers who have been threatened with hell find some relief in threatening those they see as harassing them with 'straw' mental disorders.

People may want to keep in mind that many believers live their lives without once threatening anyone with hell, but instead work to bring peace, joy, and comfort to family and friends. That is the peace and happiness we offer the world. On behalf of believers, I do apologize to everyone who has felt threatened or crushed. That is not the Gospel message we were asked to announce.

I have concluded, personally, that this tendency to assume mental issues in others based upon what they believe is really a disorder in itself. People have trouble getting the concept into their heads that other people actually exist. By that I mean, other people are separate entities rather than extensions of ourselves. If they are nothing but an extension of me, then obviously any thinking they might express which is different than my own must be a disorder. Since my own thinking is the only thinking which truly exists, anything else is out of the norm by definition.
 
I have concluded, personally, that this tendency to assume mental issues in others based upon what they believe is really a disorder in itself. People have trouble getting the concept into their heads that other people actually exist. By that I mean, other people are separate entities rather than extensions of ourselves. If they are nothing but an extension of me, then obviously any thinking they might express which is different than my own must be a disorder. Since my own thinking is the only thinking which truly exists, anything else is out of the norm by definition.

Well said.
 
I always found his arrogance to be amusing. His debating techniques are exquisite though and he lays bare his soul in this lecture that his intelligence trumps all faith.

His god is Bertrand Russell you see. :)

Yes, I was surprised when I saw a book entitled 'why I am not a Christian' in the library and I though, what kind of arrogant bastard could have written that, It must be Bertrand Russell. and I was right. But it turns out to be a lecture not a book written specially. Anyway, now it is on the Internet free to read.
The main argument I have with Russell is that religion is based on fear.


Religion is the glue that makes it possible to believe in the various gods. One person talking about worshiping an invisible, magical being would correctly be called crazy but there's safety in numbers.

We have become so accustomed to this insanity that many don't even question the mental status of rabidly delirious believers.


7 Reason why Religion is a Mental Disorder

(1) Hallucinations - the person has invisible friends who (s)he insists are real, and to whom (s)he speaks daily, even though nobody can actually see or hear these friends

(2) Delusions - the patient believes that the invisible person has magical powers to make them rich, cure cancer, bring about world peace, and will do so eventually if asked.

(3) Denial/Inability to learn - though the requests for world peace remain unanswered, even after hundreds of years, the patients persist with the praying behavior, each time expecting different results

(4) Inability to distinguish fantasy from reality - the beliefs are contingent upon ancient mythology being accepted as historical fact.

(5) Paranoia - the belief that anyone who does not share their supernatural concept of reality is "evil," "the devil," "an agent of Satan"

(6) Emotional abuse - religious concepts such as sin, hell, cause feelings of guilt, shame, fear, and other types of emotional "baggage" which can scar the psyche for life

(7) Violence - many patients insist that others should share in their delusions, even to the extent of using harassment and violence.

funny. You've described yourself a tee but you don't know a thing about religion.
 
7 Reason why Religion is a Mental Disorder

(1) Hallucinations - the person has invisible friends who (s)he insists are real, and to whom (s)he speaks daily, even though nobody can actually see or hear these friends

(2) Delusions - the patient believes that the invisible person has magical powers to make them rich, cure cancer, bring about world peace, and will do so eventually if asked.

(3) Denial/Inability to learn - though the requests for world peace remain unanswered, even after hundreds of years, the patients persist with the praying behavior, each time expecting different results

(4) Inability to distinguish fantasy from reality - the beliefs are contingent upon ancient mythology being accepted as historical fact.

(5) Paranoia - the belief that anyone who does not share their supernatural concept of reality is "evil," "the devil," "an agent of Satan"

(6) Emotional abuse - religious concepts such as sin, hell, cause feelings of guilt, shame, fear, and other types of emotional "baggage" which can scar the psyche for life

(7) Violence - many patients insist that others should share in their delusions, even to the extent of using harassment and violence.

The trouble with an analysis like this, is that it can all too easily be turned around so that it is the non-believer who has a "mental disorder" or a brain mechanism that is not functioning properly. What I am observing is that unbelievers who have been threatened with hell find some relief in threatening those they see as harassing them with 'straw' mental disorders.

People may want to keep in mind that many believers live their lives without once threatening anyone with hell, but instead work to bring peace, joy, and comfort to family and friends. That is the peace and happiness we offer the world. On behalf of believers, I do apologize to everyone who has felt threatened or crushed. That is not the Gospel message we were asked to announce.

I have concluded, personally, that this tendency to assume mental issues in others based upon what they believe is really a disorder in itself. People have trouble getting the concept into their heads that other people actually exist. By that I mean, other people are separate entities rather than extensions of ourselves. If they are nothing but an extension of me, then obviously any thinking they might express which is different than my own must be a disorder. Since my own thinking is the only thinking which truly exists, anything else is out of the norm by definition.
An example of a confused person trying to be rational. Nice try though! :D
 
7 Reason why Religion is a Mental Disorder

(1) Hallucinations - the person has invisible friends who (s)he insists are real, and to whom (s)he speaks daily, even though nobody can actually see or hear these friends

(2) Delusions - the patient believes that the invisible person has magical powers to make them rich, cure cancer, bring about world peace, and will do so eventually if asked.

(3) Denial/Inability to learn - though the requests for world peace remain unanswered, even after hundreds of years, the patients persist with the praying behavior, each time expecting different results

(4) Inability to distinguish fantasy from reality - the beliefs are contingent upon ancient mythology being accepted as historical fact.

(5) Paranoia - the belief that anyone who does not share their supernatural concept of reality is "evil," "the devil," "an agent of Satan"

(6) Emotional abuse - religious concepts such as sin, hell, cause feelings of guilt, shame, fear, and other types of emotional "baggage" which can scar the psyche for life

(7) Violence - many patients insist that others should share in their delusions, even to the extent of using harassment and violence.

The trouble with an analysis like this, is that it can all too easily be turned around so that it is the non-believer who has a "mental disorder" or a brain mechanism that is not functioning properly. What I am observing is that unbelievers who have been threatened with hell find some relief in threatening those they see as harassing them with 'straw' mental disorders.

People may want to keep in mind that many believers live their lives without once threatening anyone with hell, but instead work to bring peace, joy, and comfort to family and friends. That is the peace and happiness we offer the world. On behalf of believers, I do apologize to everyone who has felt threatened or crushed. That is not the Gospel message we were asked to announce.

I have concluded, personally, that this tendency to assume mental issues in others based upon what they believe is really a disorder in itself. People have trouble getting the concept into their heads that other people actually exist. By that I mean, other people are separate entities rather than extensions of ourselves. If they are nothing but an extension of me, then obviously any thinking they might express which is different than my own must be a disorder. Since my own thinking is the only thinking which truly exists, anything else is out of the norm by definition.

magical thinking is a mental disorder
 

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