Why Hillary is not dropping out

[manifold]

It's pretty simple: If Obama wins the presidency, she's done for good. Unless of course she's content to make a career out of the Senate.

At 60 years old, and with the Clinton cache fading quickly, it's highly unlikely that she would be around for another run in 2016 (at age 68).

IMO, when she loses the nomination to Obama, her only hope will be to try to get him defeated so that she can run again in 2012. IMO, she is not likely to put the interests of her party ahead of her personal ambitions. I base this opinion on how much campaigning she did for Gore and Kerry...effectively zilch.

Why do you think Hillary has not yet thrown in the towel?

 

[jillian]

Perhaps so that Obama's not embarrassed when he loses states like WV and Kentucky in a landslide to someone who's not in the race.

 

[Ravi]

Are you going to repost this every day?

If she dropped out before the primaries were finished she'd be a loser. The race is really that close.

If she dropped out before the primaries were over, Obama would be losing primaries to a ghost. THAT would be quite amusing, no?

 

[manifold]

Perhaps so that Obama's not embarrassed when he loses states like WV and Kentucky in a landslide to someone who's not in the race.

Seriously, I think this is a legitimate topic for discussion that I'd prefer not get moved to the flame zone this time. She knows she can't win, she has to. So why do you really think she's dragging this thing out?

 

[jillian]

Seriously, I think this is a legitimate topic for discussion that I'd prefer not get moved to the flame zone this time. She knows she can't win, she has to. So why do you really think she's dragging this thing out?

I think Ravir and I just answered you. Also, if you think about it from a practical perspective and stop feeling tht Obama's being put upon by having to continue with primary season, you'll realize that she has almost half of the democratic party and every large battleground state one needs to win. If Obama wants her people to support him in the general (and we're talking about almost 25% who, as of right now, WON'T VOTE FOR HIM AND WILL VOTE FOR McCAIN) then her supporters can't feel that she was shoved out of the race by a punditocracy that has wanted to crown Obama for months. I am, personally, wondering how much those efforts diminished her money-raising ability and affected the outcome.

Also, if you notice, the verbiage has changed. Hillary's not on the attack as much, it's more talking about her virtues but not his negatives. If I were Obama's advisors, I'd be welcoming her staying in the race right now. His losing to a ghost as Ravir says, raises serious, serious questions about his ability to win, because like it or not, we know he'll get the blue states. We know McCain will get the red states. Once again, things are going to turn on states like Ohio and Florida and PA.Now who won those again? So he very much needs her help if he'sgoing to win.

Besides, Terry McAuliffe said today the race will be over by June 2nd. Right now, I think Obama's biggest problem is his supporters who think they're helping him but then let the issue of his losing states to hillary even if she were out of the race be discussed b/c they keep asking these questions. they've also tried to color (pardon the pun) Hillary supporters as racists, when she's got most of the older women (WHO FREAKING VOTE, BTW... UNLIKE COLLEGE KIDS) and it's more about seeing her as better. That type of thing has been horribly divisive and is one of the major reasons that as of right now that a lot of Hillary folk won't support him.

That said, I think more and more it will be clear that McCain would be a nightmare and the party isn't going to let him walk into the White House without uniting against him.

*Edit* I think it's a perfectly fine topic, but not every day. And if you don't want it in the flame section then think about your responses.

 

[manifold]

I think Ravir and I just answered you. Also, if you think about it from a practical perspective and stop feeling tht Obama's being put upon by having to continue with primary season, you'll realize that she has almost half of the democratic party and every large battleground state one needs to win. If Obama wants her people to support him in the general (and we're talking about almost 25$% who, as of right now, WON'T VOTE FOR HIM AND WILL VOTE FOR McCAIN) then her supporters can't feel that she was shoved out of the race by a punditocracy that has wanted to crown Obama for months. I am, personally, wondering how much those efforts diminished her money-raising ability and affected the outcome.

Also, if you notice, the verbiage has changed. Hillary's not on the attack as much, it's more talking about her virtues but not his negatives. If I were Obama's advisors, I'd be welcoming her staying in the race right now. His losing to a ghost as Ravir says, raises serious, serious questions about his ability to win, because like it or not, we know he'll get the blue states. We know McCain will get the red states. Once again, things are going to turn on states like Ohio and Florida and PA.Now who won those again? So he very much needs her help if he'sgoing to win.

Besides, Terry McAuliffe said today the race will be over by June 2nd. Right now, I think Obama's biggest problem is his supporters who think they're helping him but then let the issue of his losing states to hillary even if she were out of the race be discussed b/c they keep asking these questions. they've also tried to color (pardon the pun) Hillary supporters as racists, when she's got most of the older women (WHO FREAKING VOTE, BTW... UNLIKE COLLEGE KIDS) and it's more about seeing her as better.

I'll buy most of this, but not the ghost part. If she officially dropped out, she wouldn't win any more primaries. How many primaries has McCain lost in bible belt states?

 

[manifold]

I also don't buy the contention that most Hillary supporters will vote for McCain. A few would no doubt, but it's not as if Obama would lose California or New York.

 

[jillian]

I also don't buy the contention that most Hillary supporters will vote for McCain. A few would no doubt, but it's not as if Obama would lose California or New York.

Yes, he'd win NY. He'd win Cali. He'd win Mass. But he wouldn't get the states he needs to win.

I disagree, obviously, on the voting for a ghost issue. The press has been saying for months that she can't win mathematically. Given that, why do you think her supporters are coming out in droves? (Remember, but for the fact that Obama's vote is larger, Hillary's would have been record-setting in and of itself). They aren't coming out to waste their time. They're coming out to vote against Obama. You really need to stop looking at the gimmee states and the states a democrat isn't going to win under any set of circumstances and start thinking big picture and getting battleground states.

 

[manifold]

Yes, he'd win NY. He'd win Cali. He'd win Mass. But he wouldn't get the states he needs to win.

I disagree, obviously, on the voting for a ghost issue. The press has been saying for months that she can't win mathematically. Given that, why do you think her supporters are coming out in droves? (Remember, but for the fact that Obama's vote is larger, Hillary's would have been record-setting in and of itself). They aren't coming out to waste their time. They're coming out to vote against Obama. You really need to stop looking at the gimmee states and the states a democrat isn't going to win under any set of circumstances and start thinking big picture and getting battleground states.

Ok. Give me a few states that Clinton would win but Obama would lose.

 

[Ravi]

Florida. Ohio. Probably Michigan.

 

[jillian]

Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Kentucky, West Virginia

 

[Ravi]

Tex Ass.

 

[Jon]

she is not likely to put the interests of her party ahead of her personal ambitions

Why do YOU get to decide what's best for the Democratic party? Perhaps Clinton feels she is the better candidate, and she wants to fight until the end. Perhaps Clinton KNOWS Obama can't beat McCain, and she's still trying to convince ignorant people like yourself of that. Perhaps Clinton is doing what she thinks is best, and you should not assume to make yourself more relevant to her concerns than she is.

There's a reason she's still in this race. And I, for one, support that reason. Sure, Obama's got millions of supporters, but he's also get millions of haters. You'll see those millions go to the polls and put a mark next to McCain in November, myself included.

 

[Jon]

Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Kentucky, West Virginia

Not to mention California and Arkansas.

 

[manifold]

Why do YOU get to decide what's best for the Democratic party?

I don't get to decide any more than a loudmouth assclown like you gets to. But I'm entitled to my opinion just like anyone else.

 

[jillian]

Not to mention California and Arkansas.

I think that's going a bit far. I think Cali's a gimme.

 

[Jon]

I don't get to decide any more than a loudmouth assclown like you gets to. But I'm entitled to my opinion just like anyone else.

At what point did I decide what's best for the Democratic party? I said I support Clinton in her decision, because it's what's best for HER. I don't support parties, I support candidates.

 

[Jon]

I think that's going a bit far. I think Cali's a gimme.

I could actually see McCain stealing California, just as much as I could see Clinton stealing Texas.

I think McCain at least has a CHANCE in California. It won't be the landslide victory we're used to seeing. Nor will Texas.

 

[manifold]

At what point did I decide what's best for the Democratic party? I said I support Clinton in her decision, because it's what's best for HER. I don't support parties, I support candidates.

Me too. And I rate Hillary third in the field of three.

But it is still my objective opinion that she doesn't give a rats ass about her party.

 

[Jon]

Me too. And I rate Hillary third in the field of three.

But it is still my objective opinion that she doesn't give a rats ass about her party.

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has them, and yours stinks.