Why help others?

[eagleseven]

Because helping others provides both psychological benefits and strengthens your social network. If one thing is evident about the human experience, it is that strong social networks ensure survival.

Thus, it is to everyone's personal advantage to create a strong social network, and this is done through generosity. Even the most tyrannical dictator needs to have an inner circle with whom he is generous. When he fails to appropriately reward his inner circle, the tyrant is deposed, assassinated.


This realization has made me far more generous than did my old fear of hell.

 

[Dr Grump]

So are you going to give a dollar to the vet in the wheelchair?

 

[eagleseven]

So are you going to give a dollar to the vet in the wheelchair?

Yes, because it makes me feel good, allowing me to cheaply fulfill multiple psychological needs. If donating to charity made us feel bad, nobody would do it.

Of course, I'm not actually thinking about this when it happens...I just know it.

 

[KittenKoder]

Because helping others provides both psychological benefits and strengthens your social network. If one thing is evident about the human experience, it is that strong social networks ensure survival.

Thus, it is to everyone's personal advantage to create a strong social network, and this is done through generosity. Even the most tyrannical dictator needs to have an inner circle with whom he is generous. When he fails to appropriately reward his inner circle, the tyrant is deposed, assassinated.


This realization has made me far more generous than did my old fear of hell.

*really wide evil grin* You do realize that most of the planet disagrees with that for a good reason. Even with my own religious belief, the only thing that stops me from just going on some psychotic spree is the law. While I agree that religion is not a requirement for morals, it helps a lot, since morality is subjective there needs to be something to compare it to. I see humanity as having overgrown, and like all things that overgrow it needs a culling, and my religious belief does not deny that killing humans is sometimes appropriate, but obeying the law is always important. Basically, the issue is extremely complex and to simplify it like this doesn't work well, it will always lead to pointless arguments.

 

[Dr Grump]

So are you going to give a dollar to the vet in the wheelchair?

Yes, because it makes me feel good, allowing me to cheaply fulfill multiple psychological needs. If donating to charity made us feel bad, nobody would do it.

Of course, I'm not actually thinking about this when it happens...I just know it.

I concur, it does make you feel good. I like donating money...especially my wife's...

 

[eagleseven]

So are you going to give a dollar to the vet in the wheelchair?

Yes, because it makes me feel good, allowing me to cheaply fulfill multiple psychological needs. If donating to charity made us feel bad, nobody would do it.

Of course, I'm not actually thinking about this when it happens...I just know it.

I concur, it does make you feel good. I like donating money...especially my wife's...

We have Pavlovian conditioning.

When I give to charity, I get a good feeling. Multiplied over the course of my lifetime, I've learned to expect a good feeling when I donate, like a dog salivating at the sound of a bell.

 

[KittenKoder]

Yes, because it makes me feel good, allowing me to cheaply fulfill multiple psychological needs. If donating to charity made us feel bad, nobody would do it.

Of course, I'm not actually thinking about this when it happens...I just know it.

I concur, it does make you feel good. I like donating money...especially my wife's...

We have Pavlovian conditioning.

When I give to charity, I get a good feeling. Multiplied over the course of my lifetime, I've learned to expect a good feeling when I donate, like a dog salivating at the sound of a bell.

I don't feel good when I "help". I feel good when I accomplish, and I feel bad when people don't try for themselves.

 

[eagleseven]

Because helping others provides both psychological benefits and strengthens your social network. If one thing is evident about the human experience, it is that strong social networks ensure survival.

Thus, it is to everyone's personal advantage to create a strong social network, and this is done through generosity. Even the most tyrannical dictator needs to have an inner circle with whom he is generous. When he fails to appropriately reward his inner circle, the tyrant is deposed, assassinated.


This realization has made me far more generous than did my old fear of hell.

*really wide evil grin* You do realize that most of the planet disagrees with that for a good reason.

Most of the planet does not disagree with me at all. This morality I have described comes purely out of selfishness...and requires only selfishness...a trait all humans posses.

Go to the tribesmen of Afghanistan, the SS of Nazi Germany, the Romans, or even the Mongols, and you will see this trend. Those at the top are always the best-connected, and they established those connections through a series of favors.

Even with my own religious belief, the only thing that stops me from just going on some psychotic spree is the law.

No, the only thing preventing you from going on a psychotic spree is your fear of death. Even in a situation of pure anarchy, anyone you kill has family and friends. You know that those family and friends would likely seek revenge upon you, which would stack the odds against you in a fight.

So, you avoid that psychotic spree in self-preservation. This was true for humans long before the advent of laws.

While I agree that religion is not a requirement for morals, it helps a lot, since morality is subjective there needs to be something to compare it to. I see humanity as having overgrown, and like all things that overgrow it needs a culling, and my religious belief does not deny that killing humans is sometimes appropriate, but obeying the law is always important. Basically, the issue is extremely complex and to simplify it like this doesn't work well, it will always lead to pointless arguments.

Religion is subjective, and a particularly ornate form of law. Morality, including religion, all grew from human self-interest. Religion is one method for unifying a group into a cohesive whole; the God of Abraham was intended for one people, the Israelites, and this is no coincidence.

 

[eagleseven]

I don't feel good when I "help". I feel good when I accomplish, and I feel bad when people don't try for themselves.

This isn't a discussion of the welfare state, so you can leave lines like "don't try for themselves" at the door.

You do not feel a surge of pleasurable brain chemicals when someone gives you a genuine smile, or demonstrates genuine gratitude? You do not feel any satisfaction in knowing that someone needs you?

Perhaps you are a sociopath, completely incapable of empathy? Rare is the person completely lacking in empathy...even hardened criminals self-medicate the trauma away.

 

[KittenKoder]

Because helping others provides both psychological benefits and strengthens your social network. If one thing is evident about the human experience, it is that strong social networks ensure survival.

Thus, it is to everyone's personal advantage to create a strong social network, and this is done through generosity. Even the most tyrannical dictator needs to have an inner circle with whom he is generous. When he fails to appropriately reward his inner circle, the tyrant is deposed, assassinated.


This realization has made me far more generous than did my old fear of hell.

*really wide evil grin* You do realize that most of the planet disagrees with that for a good reason.

Most of the planet does not disagree with me at all. This morality I have described comes purely out of selfishness...and requires only selfishness...a trait all humans posses.

Go to the tribesmen of Afghanistan, the SS of Nazi Germany, the Romans, or even the Mongols, and you will see this trend. Those at the top are always the best-connected, and they established those connections through a series of favors.

Even with my own religious belief, the only thing that stops me from just going on some psychotic spree is the law.

No, the only thing preventing you from going on a psychotic spree is your fear of death. Even in a situation of pure anarchy, anyone you kill has family and friends. You know that those family and friends would likely seek revenge upon you, which would stack the odds against you in a fight.

So, you avoid that psychotic spree in self-preservation. This was true for humans long before the advent of laws.

While I agree that religion is not a requirement for morals, it helps a lot, since morality is subjective there needs to be something to compare it to. I see humanity as having overgrown, and like all things that overgrow it needs a culling, and my religious belief does not deny that killing humans is sometimes appropriate, but obeying the law is always important. Basically, the issue is extremely complex and to simplify it like this doesn't work well, it will always lead to pointless arguments.

Religion is subjective, and a particularly ornate form of law. Morality, including religion, all grew from human self-interest.

You assume I fear death ... that assumption is so wrong it's almost humorous ... almost. It's actually quite sad, that you fear death so much yourself you assume everyone does. No, I disdain loss of freedom, period, death is a release not a loss. Morality is highly subjective, the Incans believed it was good to eat other people, the Aztecs would torture their victims because they believed it was what the gods wanted. The Romans believed it was okay to kill anyone but their own. The Egyptians believed in fair fights. Muslim extremists believe when you die fighting for your cause, no matter how or why, you are blessed. Native Americans believe that nature is more valuable than a human life.

Religion is the basis for law in these areas, even in the US. My lack of fear is the only reason I have survived, oddly, not just a lack of fear of death, but I simply fear nothing, When the military turned me down because of my disabilities, they turned down what they would find to be a perfect soldier, but meh. In my religion the one thing that will prevent you from moving on, out of this world, is guilt. Fear is one form of guilt.

 

[Luissa]

I concur, it does make you feel good. I like donating money...especially my wife's...

We have Pavlovian conditioning.

When I give to charity, I get a good feeling. Multiplied over the course of my lifetime, I've learned to expect a good feeling when I donate, like a dog salivating at the sound of a bell.

I don't feel good when I "help". I feel good when I accomplish, and I feel bad when people don't try for themselves.

this is why I only donate to the ones that look like they might have mental problems. I worked in a park with many homeless vets, we would do what we could.
If it is some teenager no way em I giving them money.

 

[eagleseven]

On an additional note, this is why, in US maximum security prisons, the isolated confinement cells have suicide watches. Put even the most depraved and vicious members of our species into isolated confinement and they will begin contemplating suicide.

 

[eagleseven]

You assume I fear death ... that assumption is so wrong it's almost humorous ... almost. It's actually quite sad, that you fear death so much yourself you assume everyone does. No, I disdain loss of freedom, period, death is a release not a loss.

If you truly believe death is the ultimate freedom, and you strive for freedom, you should commit suicide.

The fact that you are still alive indicates that your id survival instincts have overridden your super-ego.

Morality is highly subjective, the Incans believed it was good to eat other people, the Aztecs would torture their victims because they believed it was what the gods wanted. The Romans believed it was okay to kill anyone but their own. The Egyptians believed in fair fights. Muslim extremists believe when you die fighting for your cause, no matter how or why, you are blessed. Native Americans believe that nature is more valuable than a human life.

Look into each faith you have described, and you will discover real-world benefits and drawbacks to each. For each religion that survived, the benefits outweighed the costs. The Romans forged an empire unlike the world had seen at the time. Muslims used their suicide-warriors to conquer most of the known world. Native American Shamans couldn't change the weather no matter how well they danced, and now are effectively extinct. The Aztecz and Incas both formed empires worthy of the history books.

Major religions that have survived to this day all serve real-world purposes...purposes that inspired their respective moralities, and often served the founders of said religion well.

Religion is the basis for law in these areas, even in the US. My lack of fear is the only reason I have survived, oddly, not just a lack of fear of death, but I simply fear nothing, When the military turned me down because of my disabilities, they turned down what they would find to be a perfect soldier, but meh. In my religion the one thing that will prevent you from moving on, out of this world, is guilt. Fear is one form of guilt.

You fear nothing? Nothing at all? Not even losing your child? You either have a false sense of bravado, or have a diseased amygdala.

 

[KittenKoder]

You assume I fear death ... that assumption is so wrong it's almost humorous ... almost. It's actually quite sad, that you fear death so much yourself you assume everyone does. No, I disdain loss of freedom, period, death is a release not a loss.

If you truly believe death is the ultimate freedom, and you strive for freedom, you should commit suicide.

The fact that you are still alive indicates that your id survival instincts have overridden your super-ego.

Morality is highly subjective, the Incans believed it was good to eat other people, the Aztecs would torture their victims because they believed it was what the gods wanted. The Romans believed it was okay to kill anyone but their own. The Egyptians believed in fair fights. Muslim extremists believe when you die fighting for your cause, no matter how or why, you are blessed. Native Americans believe that nature is more valuable than a human life.

Look into each faith you have described, and you will discover real-world benefits and drawbacks to each. For each religion that survived, the benefits outweighed the costs. The Romans forged an empire unlike the world had seen at the time. Muslims used their suicide-warriors to conquer most of the known world. Native American Shamans couldn't change the weather no matter how well they danced, and now are effectively extinct. The Aztecz and Incas both formed empires worthy of the history books.

Major religions that have survived to this day all serve real-world purposes...purposes that inspired their respective moralities, and often served the founders of said religion well.

Religion is the basis for law in these areas, even in the US. My lack of fear is the only reason I have survived, oddly, not just a lack of fear of death, but I simply fear nothing, When the military turned me down because of my disabilities, they turned down what they would find to be a perfect soldier, but meh. In my religion the one thing that will prevent you from moving on, out of this world, is guilt. Fear is one form of guilt.

You fear nothing? Nothing at all? Not even losing your child? You either have a false sense of bravado, or have a diseased/broken amygdala.

You assume way too much. Who said I hadn't attempted and failed to escape the bonds of life? I have no family, so no, I don't fear that, and even if I would it wouldn't be a fear, it would be a selfish desire to keep my creation safe, nothing wrong with that concept. I have disease, and I have been hurt, I don't fear it, though I don't enjoy it. Fear is still not the factor, comfort. Seeking comfort is not even close to fear. It's not bravado, it's just who I am, I never said I was better than anyone. It is you who had made the arrogant implication that you feel you are better than others. I am arrogant myself, I am better than a lot of people are with computers, it's what keeps me relatively sane.

Oh, and fishing for things I fear will get you nowhere even if there was something.

 

[eagleseven]

You assume way too much. Who said I hadn't attempted and failed to escape the bonds of life?

Given your previous response, actually I had assumed that you had at least contemplated, if not attempted, suicide. Since you're still here, I assumed that your genetically programmed survival instincts won the day.

I have no family, so no, I don't fear that, and even if I would it wouldn't be a fear, it would be a selfish desire to keep my creation safe, nothing wrong with that concept.

As I was saving, all modern moralities originally derived from self-interest.

I have disease, and I have been hurt, I don't fear it, though I don't enjoy it. Fear is still not the factor, comfort. Seeking comfort is not even close to fear. It's not bravado, it's just who I am, I never said I was better than anyone. It is you who had made the arrogant implication that you feel you are better than others. I am arrogant myself, I am better than a lot of people are with computers, it's what keeps me relatively sane.

If you look closely at my OP, I state that I am far more generous now than I was previously as a theist. You are correct, however, in assuming that I view myself as superior to those who refuse to consider such issues as we are discussing.

Fortunately, I know few such people.

Oh, and fishing for things I fear will get you nowhere even if there was something.

Then a combination of disease and medication must have permanently damaged the function of your amygdala. The amygdala is one of the most primitive regions of the brain, and it controls your emotions. If you eliminated the rest of the brain, leaving only the spinal cord and amygdala, the human would behave like a lizard.

If your brain is undamaged, then you do have fears, but are too macho to admit it.

 

[eagleseven]

Speaking of suicide...two of my favorite suicide-related songs!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJTQwudsWCQ]YouTube - End of Evangelion - Turn back time[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICiFnQrHOrk]YouTube - suicide is painless - 4077th tribute[/ame]

 

[KittenKoder]

My only interest in life, leave with a bang.

 

[editec]

People get involved in charitable projects for various reasons depending on the person and the charity involved.

Enlightened self interest is certainly one of those reasons. Some of us understand that we are part of a community and that helping the community is actually helping ourselves.

Sympathy and/or empathy are two other reasons one might feel charitable, and I think it not unreasonable to suggest that in many cases self-interest is not the primary motivation for helping others.

Helping other people really is a build in response most normal people have.

There's at least a little bit of hero in almost all of us, just as most all of us have at least some propensity toward villianous behavior.

Making the claim that all charity is a form of selfishness (which is often what Randian, objectivist-libertarians like to do) is a childish exercise in semantics.

 

[eagleseven]

Making the claim that all charity is a form of selfishness (which is often what Randian, objectivist-libertarians like to do) is a childish exercise in semantics.

Rather, it is an analysis of human behavior from the perspective of the evolutionary biologist. Charity must, as it is a universal human trait, increase the fitness of an individual and those related to an individual.

The fact that, in a country of over 300 million humans, psychotic mass-shootings are so rare as to still make international headlines is remarkable, and indicative of just how evolutionary beneficial our innate social behaviors are.