Why Healthcare Costs are Rising

[Old Rocks]

...
Why are all healthcare expenditures rising? Because new innovations cost more.
...

And once we get universal healthcare, the innovations will slow considerably because the profit motive will be gone. We'll enter a 'dark ages' period of medical science.

I see. Like Japan and Europe?

MRI prices fall sharply in markets outside U.S.

MRI prices fall sharply in markets outside U.S. - Diagnostic Imaging


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Tight reimbursement and improvements in low-field technology have combined to force down the prices of magnetic resonance imaging systems sold in Japan and Europe. Japanese MRI prices have been declining for at least two years, and this trend has spread to Europe and other international markets as well.

"Japan has the most competitive prices," said Ralph Andreas, vice president of international for Toshiba America MRI in South San Francisco. But MRI prices in general can't go much lower, he said.

The price of a popular 0.5-tesla superconductive system in Japan plummeted from 200 million yen ($1.5 million) to 100 million yen ($735,000) between 1988 and 1989. The price continued to fall in 1990 to about 70 million yen ($514,000)--about half the U.S. price, according to the Japanese newspaper Nippon Kogyo Shimbun.

MRI prices in Europe were considerably higher than in the U.S., but have dropped significantly. Prices in Japan, however, are much lower than those found in both the U.S. and Europe.

Tightly controlled reimbursement rates are forcing a major reduction in prices outside the U.S., according to Christopher J. Peabody, senior vice president of international operations at Picker. Customers in international markets are seeking magnet values at 0.5 tesla and below.

"A lot of shopping is done on the basis of lowest installed price," Peabody said.

Prices in Europe have fallen about half as far as those in Japan. Mid-field systems sold for about 13 million francs ($2.5 million) in France in 1987. Today, 0.5-tesla systems list in the 9 million franc ($1.7 million) range. List price for a popular high-field system was 16 million francs ($3.1 million) in 1987 and has dropped about 25% to 12 million francs ($2.3 million), according to Dr. Robert Lavayssi-ere, general secretary of the heavy equipment branch of the Private Practicing Radiologists' Union.

"This current (downward) price trend will force some of the smaller competitors out, and in the long run prices will flatten out," Andreas said. "There also has to be more consistency in pricing between the various geographical markets."

For the time being, however, reimbursement will probably continue to decline and the price of MR systems will have to follow, he said.

"It is like a mini price war and it's unfortunate, because you have to put more R&D into MRI than into any other imaging modality," Andreas said.

 

[Toro]

It still takes a few months generally to get an MRI in Canada. But that's down from a year a few years back.

 

[Political Junky]

What's "new" is that doctors will prescribe an MRI scan when an X-Ray could do the job just as well in many situations. The difference in cost is enormous.

now Maggie this is one of the arguments i hear with the ins. thing....who will make that call?...the doc or someone behind a desk?....

Someone behind a desk, the same as now. A bureaucrat behind a desk decides if you get an MRI or a transplant, only they work for private insurance companies.

 

[auditor0007]

Spending on pet healthcare have actually grown faster than on humans.

Why are all healthcare expenditures rising? Because new innovations cost more.



Greg Mankiw's Blog: Keeping Animial Spirits Alive

There is no argument that a good portion of the increases in healthcare spending are due to new innovations and technologies that have helped extend the lives of most people. The problem is that the rate of increase is unsustainable financially. Based on the rate of growth over the last twenty years, if we continue at that same rate, we will eventually spend more than 100% of GDP on healthcare.

There is a limit as to how much a society can spend on healthcare, and we are reaching the breaking point. As costs continue to rise, we will see more and more Americans without insurance or some type of healthcare coverage. So fewer and fewer people will actually use or be able to pay for all these advances. This in turn will increase costs even more for those who can afford to pay until they can no longer afford it either. In the process, many will actually see the healtcare available to them become even more limited, and eventually we will begin regressing instead of progressing when it comes to our overall health and longevity.

Exceeding 100% of GDP is an impossibility, by definition, 100% is the maximum possible.
To actually hit 100% on health care expenditure would mean that spending on even food would have to cease to exist.

That is my point. The rising cost of healthcare is unsustainable. One way or another, it will hit a peak, and then we will ration care. The question is how do we stabalize costs and make available the best care possible for the most people possible.

 

[auditor0007]

...
Why are all healthcare expenditures rising? Because new innovations cost more.
...

And once we get universal healthcare, the innovations will slow considerably because the profit motive will be gone. We'll enter a 'dark ages' period of medical science.

So? We can't even cure what we've already got. Take the profit motive out of keeping diseases incurable like cancer, even the common cold, and I'll bet scientists would walk us out of those existing "dark ages" in no time.

That kind of thinking belongs under conspiracy theories, but damn, you really have to wonder at times.

 

[editec]

Killing off fat people probably won't get a pass in Congress.

Those liberal assed weenies are too softhearted to kill our beached whale population.

Perhaps your health care rates should be determined by your bodyfat content?

Oh stop blubbering you fat people, the idea makes perfect sense.

A bag of Fritos ought to cost about $50 and you know it.

and if someone has a glandular problem?....what is the requirements to be considered fat?....according to the govt. charts Karl Malone was considered overweight....and if he was considered fat....i think we are all going to be in the kill line....

You trying to tell me that 60% of the adult American and half the kids in this population have a glandular problem?

Over eating junk food is no less a deadly addiction than smoking.

Smokers contribute more to the HC system than they cost because those dying of smoking related illnesses check out so quickly.

I'm warning yas' -- right after the money stops coming in from smokers, junk food is the next target.

Expect to see signs like this soon

No junk food may be eaten within 50' of this building.

​

 

[auditor0007]

Killing off fat people probably won't get a pass in Congress.

Those liberal assed weenies are too softhearted to kill our beached whale population.

Perhaps your health care rates should be determined by your bodyfat content?

Oh stop blubbering you fat people, the idea makes perfect sense.

A bag of Fritos ought to cost about $50 and you know it.

and if someone has a glandular problem?....what is the requirements to be considered fat?....according to the govt. charts Karl Malone was considered overweight....and if he was considered fat....i think we are all going to be in the kill line....

You trying to tell me that 60% of the adult American and half the kids in this population have a glandular problem?

Over eating junk food is no less a deadly addiction than smoking.

Smokers contribute more to the HC system than they cost because those dying of smoking related illnesses check out so quickly.

I'm warning yas' -- right after the money stops coming in from smokers, junk food is the next target.

Expect to see signs like this soon

No junk food may be eaten within 50' of this building.

​

Nah, you won't see any signs like that, but they will likely begin taxing the hell out of junk foods.

 

[MaggieMae]

well junkie show us a comparision between profit motivated research compared to non-profit motivated research.....who has come up with more Technology and new medical science?....im sure you can can show us a huge list on this....

NASA. Turn on your television today and learn something. We didn't just walk on the moon, thanks to a huge government program, but all kinds of medical and other scientific breakthroughs happened by private enterprise as a result of the science and expertise (and dedication) that went into the space program.

NASA is just another wasteful government program that should be privatized. The spinoff technology was created by private corporations at an exorbitant cost using taxpayer money.

Sure...

People like you need to just get up on your horsey and ride into the sunset where you'll become untouchable as you live off the land. But but but, you wouldn't be able to take your computer!! Wait! I know--how about just stocking up your cellar with Cheetos, Budweiser and Red Bull, installing a port-a-potty, and spending all your time in some avatar city where everyone's just like you?

 

[MaggieMae]

What's "new" is that doctors will prescribe an MRI scan when an X-Ray could do the job just as well in many situations. The difference in cost is enormous.

now Maggie this is one of the arguments i hear with the ins. thing....who will make that call?...the doc or someone behind a desk?....

Obviously it should be the doctor, but many will order an MRI as many times as he gets reimbursed for the procedure itself. The EQUIPMENT is probably paid for the first year. Whatever happened to the scenario that if a spot on the lung discovered by X-ray couldn't be identified so the probe THEN turned to an MRI? I can also see occasions where, speaking of lung problems only, an MRI would be ordered in any event. If someone is a heavy smoker, the technology can discover smaller anomalies than X-Rays. But they are using MRIs to the exclusion of X-Ray often unnecessarily. Patients don't know--they still trust their physicians to know the right thing to do.

Anyway, who "gets to decide" is something HHS will determine, if at all, once the POLICY bill is passed. Stuff like that won't be explicit in a bill. Actually, if a bill ever does get through, the fun part will only just begin.

 

[MaggieMae]

True as that may be, I'd bet the aging demographic has at least as much, if not more, to do with it.

Childhood obesity is also on the rise.

maybe the elimination of gym classes has a big part in that....

Yup. Didn't hear much screeching about that, but we sure get an earful every time anyone suggests putting healthy food in the vending machines instead of junk.

 

[MaggieMae]

HELLO Junky!!.....tap tap tap....is this thing on?

Gee, Harry, some people actually log off from USMB for long periods of time. Didn't you miss ME all day yesterday? Tap tap tap, are you here today? Guess I could just click on your name to find out. Easy, huh?

Maggie i have asked Junky at least 4-5 times in various posts to answer questions posed.....never heard from him again UNTIL he posted elsewhere....and the same thing happened there...Midcant is another one, post something, says something outrageous,never answers ANYONE who has a disagreement with his post...NEVER....unless you agree then he will say a sentance or two....now you know why i did the TAP,TAP....i never have to do that with you though...

I know. I was teasing. I respond because I go to prior posts before any others. Some days I never get to read or post in anything new. That said, I have on occasion been accused of not IMMEDIATELY responding to someone within minutes! Unless it's a real-time banter like those that go on in the wee hours, how is that possible?

 

[MaggieMae]

replace "fat people" with smokers Ed or would that hit too close to home?

Should smokers and fat people pay more for health insurance....YES

but why does a "family plan" cost the same for me and my wife as it does for a couple with 4 kids?

Haven't shopped for insurance in a while? Even if you're coverered by an employer's policy, there are many plans that calculate the cost to you by adding or subtracting family members.

I would dare to say very few family plans factor in # of family members.

Really? Better check yours to make sure if you had a new baby recently, h/she is covered along with siblings.

Splitting Family Members On A Group Health Plan

 

[MaggieMae]

Killing off fat people probably won't get a pass in Congress.

Those liberal assed weenies are too softhearted to kill our beached whale population.

Perhaps your health care rates should be determined by your bodyfat content?

Oh stop blubbering you fat people, the idea makes perfect sense.

A bag of Fritos ought to cost about $50 and you know it.

and if someone has a glandular problem?....what is the requirements to be considered fat?....according to the govt. charts Karl Malone was considered overweight....and if he was considered fat....i think we are all going to be in the kill line....

You trying to tell me that 60% of the adult American and half the kids in this population have a glandular problem?

Over eating junk food is no less a deadly addiction than smoking.

Smokers contribute more to the HC system than they cost because those dying of smoking related illnesses check out so quickly.

I'm warning yas' -- right after the money stops coming in from smokers, junk food is the next target.

Expect to see signs like this soon

No junk food may be eaten within 50' of this building.

​

So then people will just put potato chips in a Ziplock bag. Getting people to eat healthier is an overwhelmingly monumental project, and sadly I don't see it happening anytime soon, especially with childen. Learning to savor less fattening foods doesn't happen until way past maturity. I only learned to do it by concocting my own recipes.

 

[Harry Dresden]

What's "new" is that doctors will prescribe an MRI scan when an X-Ray could do the job just as well in many situations. The difference in cost is enormous.

now Maggie this is one of the arguments i hear with the ins. thing....who will make that call?...the doc or someone behind a desk?....

Someone behind a desk, the same as now. A bureaucrat behind a desk decides if you get an MRI or a transplant, only they work for private insurance companies.

so whats going to be the difference then?.....one of the big gripes i keep hearing is that the Doc. doesnt get to make the call....so now the Bureaucrat works for someone else....but the same shit persists...???....

 

[Harry Dresden]

You trying to tell me that 60% of the adult American and half the kids in this population have a glandular problem?

Over eating junk food is no less a deadly addiction than smoking.

Smokers contribute more to the HC system than they cost because those dying of smoking related illnesses check out so quickly.

I'm warning yas' -- right after the money stops coming in from smokers, junk food is the next target.

Expect to see signs like this soon

No junk food may be eaten within 50' of this building.

​

well Ed it kinda sounded like you were just lumping all overweight people into the same boat....ya know....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Childhood obesity is also on the rise.

maybe the elimination of gym classes has a big part in that....

Yup. Didn't hear much screeching about that, but we sure get an earful every time anyone suggests putting healthy food in the vending machines instead of junk.

get those kids out there running an hour a day.........

 

[Harry Dresden]

Gee, Harry, some people actually log off from USMB for long periods of time. Didn't you miss ME all day yesterday? Tap tap tap, are you here today? Guess I could just click on your name to find out. Easy, huh?

Maggie i have asked Junky at least 4-5 times in various posts to answer questions posed.....never heard from him again UNTIL he posted elsewhere....and the same thing happened there...Midcant is another one, post something, says something outrageous,never answers ANYONE who has a disagreement with his post...NEVER....unless you agree then he will say a sentance or two....now you know why i did the TAP,TAP....i never have to do that with you though...

I know. I was teasing. I respond because I go to prior posts before any others. Some days I never get to read or post in anything new. That said, I have on occasion been accused of not IMMEDIATELY responding to someone within minutes! Unless it's a real-time banter like those that go on in the wee hours, how is that possible?

i usually will wait a good day anyway....and when i see the same poster posting elsewhere ....well then i figure ....make a statement but dont answer your critics....cause ya got nothing.....hell i ride mine out even if i get my ass handed to me...which happens...but hey i opened my yap.... i think the great majority of people here will ride their posts out....but some just vanish to appear elsewhere and do the same there....

 

[jreeves]

What's "new" is that doctors will prescribe an MRI scan when an X-Ray could do the job just as well in many situations. The difference in cost is enormous.

now Maggie this is one of the arguments i hear with the ins. thing....who will make that call?...the doc or someone behind a desk?....

Someone behind a desk, the same as now. A bureaucrat behind a desk decides if you get an MRI or a transplant, only they work for private insurance companies.

Only if your doctor is behind a desk. Doctors refer patients for MRIs here in the US, when was the last time at a doctors visit, did your doctor tell you he would have to ask a guy behind a desk?

 

[Old Rocks]

Who wants to invent something when some bureaucrat can just swoop in and confiscate it, under the rubric of "the common good"??

And don't insult my intelligence by telling me that can't happen.

I have yet to see evidence of the existance of anything worthy of insult.

 

[johnrocks]

Government,group health and other third party payors and regulations are the reason,imho,that costs rise. In Costa Rica;which has socialized medicine,you can get 80% of the drugs you need without a prescription for example and they are much cheaper there.