WHY health care needed reform

[Bern80]

Then you will have to spell it out for me.

I and others have already tried; frankly you have shown that to be pointless.

I haven't ignored anything and have actually answered this several times myself. I never said there is no need for insurance at all.

Then pardon my misinterpretation. When you said "how about you the consumer just pay for the services he provides you" initially, ie a blanket proposal, that's what it sounded like to me.

If you grasp the bigger theme I'm talking about here I'm saying it's overused, which is causing services to cost more than they should be. It is not unworkable. Take a second. Forget what you think you know and humor me.

It is quite unworkable, again for reasons explained (multiple times). As for humouring you, sorry, I've had enough of that.

In the words of one wiser than me. 'NO, it is no different. Only different in your mind".

It is different in this thing we call the real world. Cars are not people and health care is not buying auto parts or services, in a wide variety of ways.

Then for love of god explain why. Because believe me I want to solve this as much as the next guy. But you can't keep saying it's so and keep insisting you've told us all how health care services react differently to market factors than any other good or service out there, when the fact is NO WHERE in this thread have you done that. If you have, copy and paste it.

 

[Greenbeard]

That is important, but also important is WHY they are being denied. Again I think part of the issue is because people tend to not take a lot of time to actually understand what their plan covers, they think an insurance plan basically covers everything.

These are not claims denials, in which an insured person's payer rejects a claim from a provider. These are coverage denials, in which someone seeks to buy insurance and is turned down.

 

[Bern80]

I and others have already tried; frankly you have shown that to be pointless.

That is a lie. You have explained the way things are. You have not explained why prices won't go down using the solutions I've suggested.

It is different in this thing we call the real world. Cars are not people and health care is not buying auto parts or services, in a wide variety of ways.

Theory is used to explain the real world, bill. Not answering farily simple questions speaks volumes about your credibility. You went so far as to imply a person can't call a hospital and ask how much a service costs if they want to pay for it themselves.

 

[Care4all]

your car seat gets ripped, you price a new seat and it is too much money for you to replace it...so you live with the old ripped seat....

you crush and break your arm...you price what it is going to take to fix it and the break....it's too expensive and you can not afford it.....

do you just deal with the crushed and broken arm on your own or do ya go to a doc and get it fixed, regardless of cost?

health care is not a widget.

 

[bill5]

Theory is used to explain the real world, bill.

No it isn't, but I'm hardly surprised you think so.

I am not going in circles with you any more. Think whatever you want.

your car seat gets ripped, you price a new seat and it is too much money for you to replace it...so you live with the old ripped seat....

you crush and break your arm...you price what it is going to take to fix it and the break....it's too expensive and you can not afford it.....

do you just deal with the crushed and broken arm on your own or do ya go to a doc and get it fixed, regardless of cost?

health care is not a widget.

Thanks for the example. I wasn't about to waste the keystrokes.

 

[Bfgrn]

your car seat gets ripped, you price a new seat and it is too much money for you to replace it...so you live with the old ripped seat....

you crush and break your arm...you price what it is going to take to fix it and the break....it's too expensive and you can not afford it.....

do you just deal with the crushed and broken arm on your own or do ya go to a doc and get it fixed, regardless of cost?

health care is not a widget.

Sure it is a 'widget'...anyone who is denied coverage for a serious illness can take their business elsewhere.................................IN ANOTHER LIFE!!!

 

[Bern80]

your car seat gets ripped, you price a new seat and it is too much money for you to replace it...so you live with the old ripped seat....

you crush and break your arm...you price what it is going to take to fix it and the break....it's too expensive and you can not afford it.....

do you just deal with the crushed and broken arm on your own or do ya go to a doc and get it fixed, regardless of cost?

health care is not a widget.

I have repeatedly stated I am not propsing we completely do away with insurance. If your financial siutation dictates that you can't really afford to pay for much anything then you probably should have some type of comprehensive insurance coverage. Or as I have suggest before, perhaps we should modify medicare such that only those with a financial need can be on it. If you don't have insurance, try negotiating payments with the hospital if it is too expensive to pay all at once. I have done this several times. Or, believe it or not, there are some people who actually do just let it go. They sling or splint the break and let it heal. The point is there are all kinds of different methods and models that can be used for one to pay for the health care they need that would help bring prices down. Competition in every other good or service contributes to driving down the cost of like items between those competitors. No one yet has been able to explain to me why that basic economic principle simply can not be applied to health care. No one can explain to me why it isn't possible for a person to call a few different hospitals to find out what a service would cost them. Or do some research as to quality of care comparison between facilities.

This is starting to border on childish with some of you. We have a common goal; get people the health care they need afforably. But for who knows what reason you are adamant in rejecting any type of policy that puts more responsibility on the consumer. You seem to be adamant in not applying any type of economic principle to this industry that works everywhere else to bring costs down.

 

[Brutus]

WHY did health care need reform?

Simple, liberals took the capitalism out of our health care system and so it developed a soviet level of efficiency. A liberal will lack the IQ to understand capitalism so will not be able to talk intelligently about this issue.

 

[Brutus]

You seem to be adamant in not applying any type of economic principle to this industry that works everywhere else to bring costs down.

this is because a liberal will lack the IQ to understand capitalism.

 

[Brutus]

health care is not a widget.

true enough, it is far more important and far more complex. This is all the more reason to have it strictly and precisely regulated by capitalism rather than a few cancerous liberals in Washington.

 

[bill5]

You're right! It's all the liberals' fault! They are responsible for the defecit, the war, El Nino, cancer, world hunger, and bad breath! Dammit if only we only got rid of all liberals the world would be perfect!!

If you're much past the age of 12, your posts are laughably idiotic.

PS and oh btw: I am pretty conservative, overall. Unlike you, however, I possess a functioning brain, which means I know neither "side" is always right or wrong, to say the least.

 

[Brutus]

Ok then why be so afraid to tell us a substantive conservative position that is mistaken???

 

[bill5]

If anyone can trasnslate I'd appreciate it.

 

[Bfgrn]

If anyone can trasnslate I'd appreciate it.

It is an attempt by a child to use adult words.

 

[Brutus]

your posts are laughably idiotic.

if so why be so afraid to present your best example for the whole world to see?????

 

[bill5]

If anyone can trasnslate I'd appreciate it.

It is an attempt by a child to use adult words.

Thank you.

 

[Bern80]

your posts are laughably idiotic.

if so why be so afraid to present your best example for the whole world to see?????

No, no he claims he alraady explained why free market principles won't work.......except there is no post in this thread that actually provides such an explanation......

 

[Bfgrn]

your posts are laughably idiotic.

if so why be so afraid to present your best example for the whole world to see?????

No, no he claims he alraady explained why free market principles won't work.......except there is no post in this thread that actually provides such an explanation......

It's pretty simple Bern. It is something that any person with an adult mind should be able to not only understand, but figure out on his own.

The whole basis of a 'free market' is the buyer has leverage, i.e. he/she can take his/her business elsewhere. That works perfectly fine when the stakes are things (cars or TV sets etc). But a person's health is not a 'thing', and the consumer's stake is their very life. An unhappy consumer can go buys a different car or TV. If a person has a life threatening illness and is denied coverage for treatment, WHAT leverage does that person have...take their business elsewhere IN ANOTHER LIFE?

 

[bill5]

I applaud your determination, but it should be clear by now that attempts to get through are pointless.

 

[Bern80]

I applaud your determination, but it should be clear by now that attempts to get through are pointless.

Naw. He's actually making an effort. he actually managed to form a semblance of a counter argument... a place to actually begin a debate. Far more than I can say for you. If I didn't know better, given your obtuseness, weaseling, lying and general lack of maturity I'd say this is Jake Starkey's new account.