Why Haven't Obama's Policies Helped The Economy?

[Foxfyre]

Why Haven't Obama's Policies Helped The Economy?

The obvious answer:

They weren't designed to.

I think more and more of us are coming to that conclusion, and that is the scariest scenario of all.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Doubtful. Without the stimulus, unemployment would likely be 12-13% right now (if not higher).

Neither one of us can prove either one of those claims now can we?



And that was my point with my other post, I wanted you to call me out about not being able to prove it even though you didn't effectivily diminishing your first post claiming that without the stimulus it would be worse....you really can't prove that.

You can only prove that under the stimulus the unemployment is at 9% and GDP is hovering at, or just below, 1% growth.


http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

World Bank, World Development Indicators - Google Public Data Explorer

I can prove it, but you won't believe the proof, so what's the point?

As long as your proof is from a legitimate source like those 2 links were I wouldn't have any problem believing it. Prove me wrong if you can, i look forward to it (because to prove me wrong means our economy and job market are good now)

 

[The T]

Why Haven't Obama's Policies Helped The Economy?

The obvious answer:

They weren't designed to.

And he with this new Porkulus has more fun in store for us as he burns up more taxpayer money campaigning.

The design was to cripple or crash the private sector while embellishing his Union pals, and his CEO cronies.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Why? My Opinion is that he hired a bunch of academics to get ideas from instead of listening to people who work in business. In theory (get it ) this is a fine idea and could work but in reality it didn't work.

On top of this, after these advisors' ideas have been showed to fail in other countries and are now failing in our country Obama, through his new jobs plan, wants to double down on the same "solutions" we have been using for over 2 years now with no success.

This video explains it so perfectly.

I Don't Understand with Obama - YouTube

His policies are working !!! Its Americans that are not.

I see what you did there

 

[daveman]

Why Haven't Obama's Policies Helped The Economy?

The obvious answer:

They weren't designed to.

I think more and more of us are coming to that conclusion, and that is the scariest scenario of all.

Indeed.

 

[daveman]

Why Haven't Obama's Policies Helped The Economy?

The obvious answer:

They weren't designed to.

And he with this new Porkulus has more fun in store for us as he burns up more taxpayer money campaigning.

The design was to cripple or crash the private sector while embellishing his Union pals, and his CEO cronies.

Yup...and then blame the GOP.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Doubtful. Without the stimulus, unemployment would likely be 12-13% right now (if not higher).

Neither one of us can prove either one of those claims now can we?



And that was my point with my other post, I wanted you to call me out about not being able to prove it even though you didn't effectivily diminishing your first post claiming that without the stimulus it would be worse....you really can't prove that.

You can only prove that under the stimulus the unemployment is at 9% and GDP is hovering at, or just below, 1% growth.


http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

World Bank, World Development Indicators - Google Public Data Explorer

We can however see that the official unemployment rate is stuck at something over 9 percent with the actual unemployment rate set at something around 16 percent. Even if you buy the Obama Administrations bullsh. . . . .I mean estimate that the stimulus created or saved 3 million jobs, that wouldn't keep up with population growth, much less cut into those already unemployed. Between January 2009 and August 2012, we added more than 4 million highschool and college grads alone to the work force. And if we buy that 3 million figure, it comes with a price tag of $266,000 per job.

Taxing or borrowing $266,000 to create a government job takes an equal amount out of the private sector that is then not available for private sector salaries. It is the most inefficient, ineffective, and expensive way to put people to work.

Well stated, as usual, Fox.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

They have. Without the stimulus we would have gone into a depression...just ask the majority of economists.

It wasn't that long ago. Surely y'all DO remember that we were losing 700,000 jobs a month when he took office.

How much of the current job numbers have to do with Republicans cutting government jobs?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLcilJGPo68]Hey There Obama (Drink the Kool Aid) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The policys have failed because they were not targeted properly. Starting road and bridge construction (a seasonal job) ate not jobs that stimulate. Financing a green energy market that doesn't exisit also is not the answer.

You give $500m to a solar cell company that folds in 6 months ... Did anyone ask if there was a market for American made solar cells?

You give that same $500m to Sam Walton (walmart fame) and he spends it (quickly) buying land, hiring constuction workers, plubers, electricians, (all those people buy steel, concrete, tile, tubing and wiring putting more industries to work) he then hires staff to run the store hiring mire then 100 local workers in ongoing employment, as well as the makers of the things that go into the store (hardware, clothes, electronics ... All these things must be made as well, creating jobs in those industries) he continues to hire truck drivers to transport the supplies to keep the store going and this doesn't include the groceries and it's effect in the farming community

how many stores can Walmart open for $500m? I'm thinking one store effects more then 10,000 people finacially on the good side. He employs all these people and gives contracts to these other contractors to make, stock and re-supply his store ....

If the big crime there is that Sam gets to make a little profit after hiring and employing that many people .... Well ... Those that believe that need to get a dose of reality.

And another thing .... Walmarts don't close after 6 months

How you fix the economy is to PUT MONEY IN THE HANDS OF THOSE THAT HIRE .... People don't make it big by banking their money, they make it big by putting the money they make to work

Thank you for answering the question I put in the first post and the title of the thread. I truly appreciate your input and it makes a lot of sense.

Why would you borrow money to make temporary jobs building infastructure as a long term solution? <-Rhetorical.

 

[The T]

Why Haven't Obama's Policies Helped The Economy?

The obvious answer:

They weren't designed to.

The obvious answer:

They weren't designed to.

And he with this new Porkulus has more fun in store for us as he burns up more taxpayer money campaigning.

The design was to cripple or crash the private sector while embellishing his Union pals, and his CEO cronies.

Yup...and then blame the GOP.

By design. Thing is? I think the people aren't buying it, and are sick of the man and want him gone.

 

[oreo]

Why? My Opinion is that he hired a bunch of academics to get ideas from instead of listening to people who work in business. In theory (get it ) this is a fine idea and could work but in reality it didn't work.

On top of this, after these advisors' ideas have been showed to fail in other countries and are now failing in our country Obama, through his new jobs plan, wants to double down on the same "solutions" we have been using for over 2 years now with no success.

This video explains it so perfectly.

I Don't Understand with Obama - YouTube

I am a 30+ year small business Sub-S corporation--and your video hit this one right on the nail--Thanks--

 

[daveman]

Why Haven't Obama's Policies Helped The Economy?

The obvious answer:

They weren't designed to.

And he with this new Porkulus has more fun in store for us as he burns up more taxpayer money campaigning.

The design was to cripple or crash the private sector while embellishing his Union pals, and his CEO cronies.

Yup...and then blame the GOP.

By design. Thing is? I think the people aren't buying it, and are sick of the man and want him gone.

Getting that way. And yes, he really does think we're all stupid. Of course, his most ardent supporters confirm that...they believe anything he says.

 

[The T]

The policys have failed because they were not targeted properly. Starting road and bridge construction (a seasonal job) ate not jobs that stimulate. Financing a green energy market that doesn't exisit also is not the answer.

You give $500m to a solar cell company that folds in 6 months ... Did anyone ask if there was a market for American made solar cells?

You give that same $500m to Sam Walton (walmart fame) and he spends it (quickly) buying land, hiring constuction workers, plubers, electricians, (all those people buy steel, concrete, tile, tubing and wiring putting more industries to work) he then hires staff to run the store hiring mire then 100 local workers in ongoing employment, as well as the makers of the things that go into the store (hardware, clothes, electronics ... All these things must be made as well, creating jobs in those industries) he continues to hire truck drivers to transport the supplies to keep the store going and this doesn't include the groceries and it's effect in the farming community

how many stores can Walmart open for $500m? I'm thinking one store effects more then 10,000 people finacially on the good side. He employs all these people and gives contracts to these other contractors to make, stock and re-supply his store ....

If the big crime there is that Sam gets to make a little profit after hiring and employing that many people .... Well ... Those that believe that need to get a dose of reality.

And another thing .... Walmarts don't close after 6 months

How you fix the economy is to PUT MONEY IN THE HANDS OF THOSE THAT HIRE .... People don't make it big by banking their money, they make it big by putting the money they make to work

Thank you for answering the question I put in the first post and the title of the thread. I truly appreciate your input and it makes a lot of sense.

Why would you borrow money to make temporary jobs building infastructure as a long term solution? <-Rhetorical.

Like all 'progressive' Solutions...frog/pot of water/add heat scenario. Slowly get people used to the Socialist Ideals, or get the public so ensconsced, that it would be austre or draconian to set it back on the proper course. (Greece and England are good examples of the fallout).

 

[Foxfyre]

WhatObama should have done from Day #1:

1. Issue an executive order to freeze all federal employment at existing levels and do not replace any non essential workers that retired, quit, or were fired.

2. Issue a freeze on ALL non essential buying at the federal level - order federal employees to use existing equipment, furnishings, decorations, supplies unless new ones were absolutely essential.

3. Issue an Executive Order that only essential government contracts will be issued and those will go to the lowest bidder who qualifies to the do the work whether union or not, whether at union wages or not.

4. Ask Congress to cancel the second half of the TARP funds that President Bush left for President Obama to use.

The above four measures would have saved billions, set a magnificent example, and would have put most of the American people squarely behind him.

5. Make an empassioned plea to Congress to make the Bush tax policy permanent for the next ten years or until a fair and impartial permanent flat tax could be put together and presented to the American people for comment and input. (This would have freed up up to six trilion in investment capital that American businesses are sitting on here at home and abroad.)

6. Push Congress to relax as many regulations as possible that are not essential to protect the life, liberty, or well being of the American citizens. (This would have encouraged American businesses to put those trillions in investment capital to work.)

7. Leave Obamacare on the shelf or assign it to professionals to work on to come up with the most effective, efficient, and economical way to reform the healthcare system.

8. Assure commerce and industry that Cap & Trade was out of play for the foreseeable future.

9. Appoint a professional Commission to look at Medicare, Social Security, and the federal portion of Medicaid and present him with the more effective, efficient, and economical ways to reform these programs with the least pain for those currently dependent on them.

10. Put the best financial minds in the country to work to fix the flaws and holes in the banking and mortgage industry.

If he had done this, I am confident that we would have begun pulling out of the recession within a few months and would be back to a booming economy by now. Some businesses would have failed and there would have been some intermittant pain, but that happened anyway. But he would have laid out the blueprint for a successful economy for a free people and would have gone down in history as one of America's greatest Presidents.

Unfortunately, his model seems to be a bigger, stronger, more intrusive, and ever more authoritarian government governing an ever more dependent and submissive people. And I don't think he CARES whether unemployment is high or the economy is hopelessly bogged down. I think the more we need the government to 'save us', the happier he is.

 

[francoHFW]

"They did, according tp the great majority of experts. Since Pubs have paralyzed the country, and the WORLD, since 1/2010, this is the Pub economy now. Great job, a-holes and dupes..."

 

[The T]

WhatObama should have done from Day #1:

1. Issue an executive order to freeze all federal employment at existing levels and do not replace any non essential workers that retired, quit, or were fired.

2. Issue a freeze on ALL non essential buying at the federal level - order federal employees to use existing equipment, furnishings, decorations, supplies unless new ones were absolutely essential.

3. Issue an Executive Order that only essential government contracts will be issued and those will go to the lowest bidder who qualifies to the do the work whether union or not, whether at union wages or not.

4. Ask Congress to cancel the second half of the TARP funds that President Bush left for President Obama to use.

The above four measures would have saved billions, set a magnificent example, and would have put most of the American people squarely behind him.

5. Make an empassioned plea to Congress to make the Bush tax policy permanent for the next ten years or until a fair and impartial permanent flat tax could be put together and presented to the American people for comment and input. (This would have freed up up to six trilion in investment capital that American businesses are sitting on here at home and abroad.)

6. Push Congress to relax as many regulations as possible that are not essential to protect the life, liberty, or well being of the American citizens. (This would have encouraged American businesses to put those trillions in investment capital to work.)

7. Leave Obamacare on the shelf or assign it to professionals to work on to come up with the most effective, efficient, and economical way to reform the healthcare system.

8. Assure commerce and industry that Cap & Trade was out of play for the foreseeable future.

9. Appoint a professional Commission to look at Medicare, Social Security, and the federal portion of Medicaid and present him with the more effective, efficient, and economical ways to reform these programs with the least pain for those currently dependent on them.

10. Put the best financial minds in the country to work to fix the flaws and holes in the banking and mortgage industry.

If he had done this, I am confident that we would have begun pulling out of the recession within a few months and would be back to a booming economy by now. Some businesses would have failed and there would have been some intermittant pain, but that happened anyway. But he would have laid out the blueprint for a successful economy for a free people and would have gone down in history as one of America's greatest Presidents.

Unfortunately, his model seems to be a bigger, stronger, more intrusive, and ever more authoritarian government governing an ever more dependent and submissive people. And I don't think he CARES whether unemployment is high or the economy is hopelessly bogged down. I think the more we need the government to 'save us', the happier he is.

Would have indeed put us on a different path than the one we currently are on. But for a man that has his whole life surrounded himself with subversives, leftists, Communists, Marxists, Domestic Terrorists?
It just didn't fit his ideology. Many of us knew it from the begining and tried to warn others.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

"They did, according tp the great majority of experts. Since Pubs have paralyzed the country, and the WORLD, since 1/2010, this is the Pub economy now. Great job, a-holes and dupes..."

you too? If you don't back that statement up you appear as the subject of this song.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLcilJGPo68]Hey There Obama (Drink the Kool Aid) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[francoHFW]

Watch anything but the pub propaganda machine, dittohead.

 

[Avorysuds]

The stimulus worked

Worked so well we need another 1 or we'll end up in a Depression... Party over country, right TM?

 

[Polk]

Neither one of us can prove either one of those claims now can we?



And that was my point with my other post, I wanted you to call me out about not being able to prove it even though you didn't effectivily diminishing your first post claiming that without the stimulus it would be worse....you really can't prove that.

You can only prove that under the stimulus the unemployment is at 9% and GDP is hovering at, or just below, 1% growth.


http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

World Bank, World Development Indicators - Google Public Data Explorer

I can prove it, but you won't believe the proof, so what's the point?

As long as your proof is from a legitimate source like those 2 links were I wouldn't have any problem believing it. Prove me wrong if you can, i look forward to it (because to prove me wrong means our economy and job market are good now)

No, to prove you wrong would mean we were better off passing the stimulus then we would be in the counterfactual. And depending on which private forecaster you ask, the stimulus created or saved (saved is relevant, as those are jobs that would have been lost in the absence of stimulus) between 1 and 1.5 million jobs.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...says-stimulus-responsible-millions-jobs-save/

You can go on and on about "but they said stimulus would keep unemployment below 8%". That calculation was made assuming GDP shrunk by 3% in the last quarter of 2008. It actually shrunk more than 6%.