Why hate the Jews?

[rtwngAvngr]

OH!


NOW I get it!

No. I was talking about him because he... oh. nevermind. Fiddlesticks! :crutch:

 

[jillian]

The general jewish line of thought on U.S. borders is they should be more open than closed. Jews feel safest in a multicultural environment. They admit this. Do you want links? They have a huge influence in both the neocon movement and america in general. Do you want links?

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Jews probably do, in general, feel safest in a multicultural environment. It means that they are as accepted as any other diverse group. Why wouldn't Jews feel that way? Historically, insular societies or societies which are too far left or too far right became inhospitable, unsafe environments.

There's probably also a sense of needing to stand up for other groups because Jews could be the next target or the one after that.

Not so difficult to understand. But there shouldn't be a negative connotation affixed to that, which is where we, obviously, differ.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Jews probably do, in general, feel safest in a multicultural environment. It means that they are as accepted as any other diverse group. Why wouldn't Jews feel that way? Historically, insular societies or societies which are too far left or too far right became inhospitable, unsafe environments.

There's probably also a sense of needing to stand up for other groups because Jews could be the next target or the one after that.

Not so difficult to understand. But there shouldn't be a negative connotation affixed to that, which is where we, obviously, differ.

There has to be a certain level of tolerance for cultures to coexist together. Europe has taken multiculturalism too far and is actually teaching that europeans must tolerate intolerance of their own selves on the part of relatively new islamic immigrants who have not assimilated into and have no respect for the host european culture. The New Order thought police are making it criminal to criticize islam though christianity may be mocked and maligned.

WHat's happening is group identities are being selectively reinforced, emboledened, glorified and/or destroyed, denigrated, maligned by the acedemic /media elite. We aren't entering a new era of individual identity, the world is being de-caucasianed and de-christened, as evidenced by the double standard in allowable speech and thought.

 

[Abbey Normal]

 

[Shamgar]

Why interpret any criticism of Irsael or Judaism to be anti-semitic ?

Why? so the jewish supremists can shut down "free speech". . .

Therefore, anti-Zionism is not a politically legitimate point of view but rather an expression of bigotry and hatred.

Abraham H. Foxman, “Never Again?: The Threat of the New Anti-Semitism,“ (New York: 2003) Page 18.

In short, when a lobby [AIPAC: American Israel Public Affairs Committee] stifles free speech nationally on one controversial topic – the Middle East – all free speech is threatened.

Paul Findely, (former Republican Congressman of Illinois for 22 years) “They Dare to Speak Out: People and Institutions Confront Israel's Lobby,” (Westport: 1985) Page 332.

Almost without exception, House and Senate members do its bidding, because most of them consider AIPAC to be the direct Capitol Hill representative of a political force that can make or break their chances at election time.

Paul Findley, “They Dare Speak Out: People and Institutions Confront Israel's Lobby” (Westport: 1985) p. 25

Most Congressional actions affecting Middle East policy are either approved or inititated by AIPAC. [AIPAC: American Israel Public Affairs Committee]

Paul Findely, (former Republican Congressman of Illinois for 22 years) “They Dare to Speak Out: People and Institutions Confront Israel's Lobby,” (Westport: 1985) Page 32.

Almost without exception, House and Senate members do its bidding, because most of them consider AIPAC to be the direct Capitol Hill representative of a political force that can make or break their chances at election time.

Paul Findley, “They Dare Speak Out: People and Institutions Confront Israel's Lobby” (Westport: 1985) p. 25


In practice, the lobby groups [AIPAC, ADL, AJC] function as an informal extension of the Israeli government. This was illustrated when AIPAC helped draft the official statement defending Israel's 1981 bombing of the Iraqi nuclear reactor, then issued it the same hour as Israel's embassy. No major Jewish organization ever publicly takes issue with positions and policies adopted by Israel. Thomas A. Dine, executive director of AIPAC, spoke warmly of President Reagan's peace plan when it was announced in September 1982, but as soon as Israel rejected the plan Dine fell silent.
Paul Findley, “They Dare Speak Out: People and Institutions Confront Israel's Lobby” (Westport: 1985) p. 26-27.

 

[Shamgar]

First, not all the NeoCons are Jews.

Some who have dual citizenship in Israel and the US. . . . some who belong the foreign arm of Israel call the AIPAC. . . . all promoting colonial rule over the goy. . . . via mobacracy (mob rule) aka democracy . . . .

The leverage provided by organizations on the fulcrum that is American democracy has helped Jews all the way from finally-getting-that-office-job-denied-me to the federal government's assistance to harassed Soviet Jews. In a sense our organizations have served as a sectarian government (albeit not elected by popular Jewish vote) within a secular government, that of the popularly elected legislative and executive branches of the American government. In a context concerned with the flow of Jewish history, Albert Memmi held that what really counts for Jews is political sovereignty. He maintained that the Diaspora-rooted Jewish tradition was essentially the product of Jews having been colonialized. Our evolving Jewish behavior, indeed our philosophy for survival, was crafted as a weapon of defense, used by us to survive as colonials. In the unique American democracy it has been our organizations which have converted our individual “colonial” status and made us a “bloc,” a “lobby,” no longer the lonely and the powerless, pitied but unheeded.

Nathan Perlmutter and Ruth Ann Perlmutter. “The Real Anti-Semitism In America” (New York: 1982) page 69-70.


To be sure, Jews constitute but 2.7% of the U.S. Population. However, our acutal percentage of the total vote approximates 5% and while even 5% is itself a small figure, given our deployment in the major states and the electoral college system, the 1980 Jewish voting distribution augurs well for both Democractic and Republican future attentiveness. At least quadrenally.

Nathan Perlmutter and Ruth Ann Perlmutter. “The Real Anti-Semitism In America” (New York: 1982) page 284.

 

[manu1959]

No. but the same neocon jews who run our foreign policy have. They think it's a stupid redneck concern. Basically.

neocon jews run our foreign policy....who did you have in mind?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

neocon jews run our foreign policy....who did you have in mind?

I don't care who does it, as long as they do the right thing.

 

[Shamgar]

neocon jews run our foreign policy....who did you have in mind?

The person who runs the Christian Theocracy that will replace this mob rule. . . .

 

[no1tovote4]

Tripping so very very hard, seeing purple spots all over as the walls melt...


This is inaccurate. They only advocate open borders and cultural dilution for countries that are NOT Israel.

That isn't what their website says. They advocate the spread of US style Democracy into all nations, including Israel. No Parliamentarian democracy...

There is a big difference. One could not be Zionist and NeoCon at the same moment. They are contrary beliefs.

 

[no1tovote4]

Some who have dual citizenship in Israel and the US. . . . some who belong the foreign arm of Israel call the AIPAC. . . . all promoting colonial rule over the goy. . . . via mobacracy (mob rule) aka democracy . . . .

The leverage provided by organizations on the fulcrum that is American democracy has helped Jews all the way from finally-getting-that-office-job-denied-me to the federal government's assistance to harassed Soviet Jews. In a sense our organizations have served as a sectarian government (albeit not elected by popular Jewish vote) within a secular government, that of the popularly elected legislative and executive branches of the American government. In a context concerned with the flow of Jewish history, Albert Memmi held that what really counts for Jews is political sovereignty. He maintained that the Diaspora-rooted Jewish tradition was essentially the product of Jews having been colonialized. Our evolving Jewish behavior, indeed our philosophy for survival, was crafted as a weapon of defense, used by us to survive as colonials. In the unique American democracy it has been our organizations which have converted our individual “colonial” status and made us a “bloc,” a “lobby,” no longer the lonely and the powerless, pitied but unheeded.

Nathan Perlmutter and Ruth Ann Perlmutter. “The Real Anti-Semitism In America” (New York: 1982) page 69-70.


To be sure, Jews constitute but 2.7% of the U.S. Population. However, our acutal percentage of the total vote approximates 5% and while even 5% is itself a small figure, given our deployment in the major states and the electoral college system, the 1980 Jewish voting distribution augurs well for both Democractic and Republican future attentiveness. At least quadrenally.

Nathan Perlmutter and Ruth Ann Perlmutter. “The Real Anti-Semitism In America” (New York: 1982) page 284.

And amazingly, none of that is evidence about the Jews running the NeoCon movement. There are some jews on the list, but far more Germans. Why are we not worried about the Germans that are NeoCons. Shoot, Rove is even a dual citizen! The Germans are running the show!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

That isn't what their website says. They advocate the spread of US style Democracy into all nations, including Israel. No Parliamentarian democracy...

There is a big difference. One could not be Zionist and NeoCon at the same moment. They are contrary beliefs.

It's really actually the border control. Democracy is fine if you have the people in the voting population mind controlled through media and or long term cultural influence. Israel doesn't just let palestinians come flooding back into Israel, because it would influence the vote too much.

One can be a Zionist and a neocon at the same time. It is quite possible.

 

[no1tovote4]

It's really actually the border control. Democracy is fine if you have the people in the voting population mind controlled through media and or long term cultural influence. Israel doesn't just let palestinians come flooding back into Israel, because it would influence the vote too much.

One can be a Zionist and a neocon at the same time. It is quite possible.

Only if you change their views on open borders and American Style democracy. Which are two of the main planks of their "plan" for the world. I think you have the wrong group of jews for your conspiracy. These ones are not zionist enough. Not only that but they support a separate nation for Palestine with an eventual open border that Israel does not support.

While the US is generally pro-israel it isn't because of the whopping 5% of the "effective" votes that they control.

 

[no1tovote4]

The person who runs the Christian Theocracy that will replace this mob rule. . . .

Do you really wish to live in a theocracy?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Do you really wish to live in a theocracy?

do you?

B'nai Noah = jew buttlicker.

http://www.noahide.com/minimum.htm
A recent influx of money has enabled a number of orthodox Jewish activists and rabbis to begin organizing Noachide activities and to investigate the Torah rules for how Noachides carry out additional mitzvos. However, our recent activities have nearly exhausted the available funds. We therefore do not yet have all the detailed answers, but we have been making rapid progress.

The following list is therefore only a short summary, not a complete explanation, of additional mitzvos that should be adopted as quickly as possible by Noachides everywhere:

Noachides should pray, at least once every day. There are specific rules how prayer should be done, rules that are routinely violated (out of sheer ignorance) by Christians. There is a proper way to pray, and a wrong way.

Noachides should observe a variety of Torah rules for modesty in dress and behavior, especially between men and women. There are both similarities and differences in how these rules apply to men and women.

Noachides may not observe any religious holidays outside the rabbinical traditions of Torah -- most especially including such Christian holidays as X-mas, Easter, Halloween, All Saint's Day, Good Friday, Ash Wednesday, and probably even the "new year" (January 1st). Alien religious holidays are forbidden even under the minimum of the Noachide code; these are violations of the commandment against idolatry.

Instead, Noachides should commemorate at least the following holidays: Rosh Hashanah, Sukkos, the 19th of Kislev (the chasidic "new year"), Chanukah, Purim, Shavuos -- and each person's birthday on the Hebrew calendar. However, Noachide participation in these holidays is different in various ways from the manner of Jewish observance. Each holiday must be observed according to precise rules.

Noachides, generally speaking, should not limit the number of children they have. Moreover, a proper Torah education for their children is absolutely essential. Ultimately, such a Torah-learning program will be similar to the programs for Jewish children, but with many important differences.

Right now, a supplemental daily home-schooling Torah program is being developed and used to teach Noachide children. All parents must rapidly get involved, teaching their children at least one hour per day (after school, for example) according to this program. As the number of participating families grows, it will soon be possible to organize full-time Noachide chedarim (day schools for grade-school children) in many communities. This approach to education, based on the three-thousand-year-old Jewish yeshiva system, drastically minimizes secular studies (math, science, history, English, social studies, computers & other technical studies) in favor of total immersion in Torah, the Word of G-d. This includes written Torah, oral Torah, halacha (religious law), Hebrew language, etc.; this philosophy of education is fundamentally opposite the one used in public and private schools and in standard home-schooling programs.

Noachides should give tzedaka (charity) for genuinely poor people, interest-free loans to others who are not as poor, and support for Torah education. We can easily identify numerous people who need genuine charitable assistance of one type or another: The elderly, unwed mothers & pregnant teens (who might otherwise have abortions), inner-city children, etc. The assistance is not just through money; in many cases, people need organized programs and activities to help them get involved in positive community affairs, rather than becoming isolated and lonely.

Again, there are a number of exact rules as to how to give such money, time, etc.

It would also be good to give contributions to the Israeli settlers in the West Bank, whose communities are now becoming endangered by the growing PLO occupation forces and terrorist actions. These brave families and yeshivos need much support from Americans.

The Noachide commandment of "justice" primarily means teaching one's neighbors, friends, associates, etc., the details of the Noachide code, and that G-d sees and hears everything, rewarding every good deed and punishing every sin. This means outreach. Noachides must turn Christians away from their idolatry and their disregard of G-d's Law, and must bring all gentiles to a full acceptance of G-d's Law, including the oral Torah and the complete authority of the orthodox rabbis. This will quickly revolutionize our society, restoring morality, respect for authority, and the fear of G-d throughout the land. Similar efforts, of course, must also be extended to foreign countries.

Certain materials, including fliers and books, are already available for this outreach, and audiotape lectures are being developed.

We learn from the prophet Isaiah that Noachides will play a very important role in bringing non-observant Jews back to their 613 commandments. As part of the outreach effort to other gentiles, Noachides must further direct their energies toward teaching Jews the important of Jewish law. Noachides must also aggressively combat the schemes of Christian missionaries, who are stealing Jewish--and gentile--souls away from eternal life under G-d's Law to the evil of Christian idolatry.

To prepare the way for establishing proper Noachide courts of law, Noachides must make a special effort--beyond all other Torah studies--to learn, in detail, the exact requirements of every part of the Noachide code. This is a difficult, long-term task, because the details of the Noachide laws apply to every possible situation in life. But a thorough learning of the Noachide halachos will open the door for selecting G-d-fearing Noachide judges for the future courts. This project can begin immediately with the study of the existing books on the Noachide laws, and will later be followed up with rabbinically-supervised yeshiva programs that still need to be organized.

A number of other programs must be organized by Noachide communities, including making kosher meat available as a substitute for the improper meat in the stores (this is particularly needed in parts of the country remote from Jewish communities); helping arrange proper Noachide marriages, and creating family support networks for childbirth, death, etc.; financially assisting the building and expansion of orthodox Jewish synagogues to have additional rooms for Noachide meetings; teaching other gentiles how to attain financial discipline and pay off outstanding debts (especially credit card debts); and so forth.

All the above recommendations will accelerate the revelation of Moshiach (the Messiah), so there is no time to waste. Let's get to work!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Noachide+halachos&btnG=Google+Search

 

[rtwngAvngr]

So they only let them in the club because they lend it credibility? They aren't setting the policy alone, ignoring the other ethnicities to point out the jews is simply ignoring the body because you see a foot.

it's both. They bring it academic credibility in addition to their control. While the converted paleocons sell out their nation for a taste of actual wins at the poll.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Only if you change their views on open borders and American Style democracy. Which are two of the main planks of their "plan" for the world. I think you have the wrong group of jews for your conspiracy. These ones are not zionist enough. Not only that but they support a separate nation for Palestine with an eventual open border that Israel does not support.

While the US is generally pro-israel it isn't because of the whopping 5% of the "effective" votes that they control.

The open borders and open immigration is what they advocate for OTHER nations. You can be a zionist and still believe in a two state solution. Why are you resorting to these tricks and half truths? What are you afraid of?

http://www.samliquidation.com/moshiach.htm

 

[Shamgar]

And amazingly, none of that is evidence about the Jews running the NeoCon movement. There are some jews on the list, but far more Germans. Why are we not worried about the Germans that are NeoCons. Shoot, Rove is even a dual citizen! The Germans are running the show!

Amazing how you cannot follow the context of the post. . . .as I never said Rove was a jew. . . .get an adult to translate for you. . . .besides Pual Findley clearly lays out the jewish influence via their control over congress (republican and democrats) through their money and use of the electoral system. . . back 25 years ago. . .

Why won't anyone say they are Jewish?
http://canadiancoalition.com/adbusters01/
March/April 2004

Friends help each other out. That’s why the US sends billions of dollars every year to Israel. In return, Israel advances US strategic interests in the Middle East. But despite this mutual back scratching, Israeli-American relations are enduring a rough patch. Last December, a senior State Department official blasted Israel for having “done too little for far too long” to resolve the conflict with its Palestinian neighbors. Indeed, President Bush himself had scolded Israel a month earlier with his demand that “Israel should freeze settlement construction, dismantle unauthorized outposts, end the daily humiliation of the Palestinian people and not prejudice final negotiations with the building of walls and fences.”

Harsh words, but is it all just window-dressing? This was not the first time Bush criticized Israel and he has made numerous calls for a “viable” Palestinian state during his presidency. Nevertheless, he has never concretely punished Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for ignoring US directives and shrugging off his commitment to the peace process. It’s also worth noting that diplomatic admonitions are the responsibility of the State Department which has been on the losing end of the policy wars in Bush’s White House. One wonders what Israeli-American relations, and indeed what American relations with the rest of the world would look like if the neocon hawks who control Rumsfeld’s Defense Department were also in charge at State.

A lot of ink has been spilled chronicling the pro-Israel leanings of American neocons and fact that a the disproportionate percentage of them are Jewish. Some commentators are worried that these individuals – labeled ‘Likudniks’ for their links to Israel’s right wing Likud party – do not distinguish enough between American and Israeli interests. For example, whose interests were they protecting in pushing for war in Iraq?

Drawing attention to the Jewishness of the neocons is a tricky game. Anyone who does so can count on automatically being smeared as an anti-Semite. But the point is not that Jews (who make up less than 2 percent of the American population) have a monolithic perspective. Indeed, American Jews overwhelmingly vote Democrat and many of them disagree strongly with Ariel Sharon’s policies and Bush’s aggression in Iraq. The point is simply that the neocons seem to have a special affinity for Israel that influences their political thinking and consequently American foreign policy in the Middle East.

Here at Adbusters, we decided to tackle the issue head on and came up with a carefully researched list of who appear to be the 50 most influential neocons in the US (see above). Deciding exactly who is a neocon is difficult since some neocons reject the term while others embrace it. Some shape policy from within the White House, while others are more peripheral, exacting influence indirectly as journalists, academics and think tank policy wonks. What they all share is the view that the US is a benevolent hyper power that must protect itself by reshaping the rest of the world into its morally superior image. And half of the them are Jewish.

Kalle Lasn

From the March/April 2004 issue of Adbusters magazine.

50 most influential neocons in the US

Jewish Neocons NonJewish Neocons
Norman Podhoretz Jeane Kirkpatrick
Irving Kristol Peter Rodman
Midge Dector Stephen Cambone
Paul Wolfowittz Donald Rumsfeld
Douglas Feith Dick Cheney
I. Lewis Libby Zalmay Khalilizad
Elliot Abrams John Bolton
Dov Zakheim R. James Woolsey
Robert B. Zoellick Robert W. Tucker
Richard Perle Francis Fukuyama
Elliot Cohen Gary Schmidt
William Kristol Ellen Bork
Robert Kagan Reuel Marc Gerecht
David Wurmser Michael Novak
Joshua Muravchik Fr. Richard J. Neuhaus
Meyrav Wurmser Rupert Murdock
Irwin Stelzer Richard Mellon Scaife
Michael Ledeen Thomas Donnelly
Daniel Pipes Owen Harries
Lawrence Kaplan Frank Gaffney
Marty Peretz Max Boot
Charles Krauthammer Gary Bauer
David Brooks William Bennett
John Podhoretz Fred Barnes
Neal Kozodoy
Jonah Goldberg


http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html
March 24, 2003 issue
Copyright © 2003 The American Conservative

Whose War?

A neoconservative clique seeks to ensnare our country in a series of wars that are not in America’s interest.

by Patrick J. Buchanan

The War Party may have gotten its war. But it has also gotten something it did not bargain for. Its membership lists and associations have been exposed and its motives challenged. In a rare moment in U.S. journalism, Tim Russert put this question directly to Richard Perle: “Can you assure American viewers ... that we’re in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests? And what would be the link in terms of Israel?”

Suddenly, the Israeli connection is on the table, and the War Party is not amused. Finding themselves in an unanticipated firefight, our neoconservative friends are doing what comes naturally, seeking student deferments from political combat by claiming the status of a persecuted minority group. People who claim to be writing the foreign policy of the world superpower, one would think, would be a little more manly in the schoolyard of politics. Not so.

Former Wall Street Journal editor Max Boot kicked off the campaign. When these “Buchananites toss around ‘neoconservative’—and cite names like Wolfowitz and Cohen—it sometimes sounds as if what they really mean is ‘Jewish conservative.’” Yet Boot readily concedes that a passionate attachment to Israel is a “key tenet of neoconservatism.” He also claims that the National Security Strategy of President Bush “sounds as if it could have come straight out from the pages of Commentary magazine, the neocon bible.” (For the uninitiated, Commentary, the bible in which Boot seeks divine guidance, is the monthly of the American Jewish Committee.)
[snip]

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Suddenly, the Israeli connection is on the table, and the War Party is not amused. Finding themselves in an unanticipated firefight, our neoconservative friends are doing what comes naturally, seeking student deferments from political combat by claiming the status of a persecuted minority group. People who claim to be writing the foreign policy of the world superpower, one would think, would be a little more manly in the schoolyard of politics. Not so.

:rotflmao: No kidding. Such whiners. Jeeeeesus.