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rtwngAvngr said:It's the most influential part of the movement. The jew involvement has given it credibility, and they are the policy makers. "well it can't be just a redneck party if jews approve of it...."
I blame the christians too, for not standing up to the internationalist jew policy.
no1tovote4 said:The eighth man from Adam? What does Tubal Cain have to do with a discussion of Jews anyway?
rtwngAvngr said:Is there no help for the widow's son?
no1tovote4 said:I blame the "christians" too, not for not standing up to the supposed jewish conspiracy (can't be a conspiracy when they have a website, and it can't be "jewish" when there are so many German, English, French descendants among them), but for not standing up for the Nation over the Party...
rtwngAvngr said:It's out in the open. Most people are just brainwashed to think jews are perfect.
no1tovote4 said:I don't think they are perfect, but I also don't think they are a collective mind all with the same opinion, like the Borg or something. I think that this is also a strawman. I don't think that all American Jews want what you attribute to them. I think, like any other ethnicity, they have differing opinions on a myriad of topics.
rtwngAvngr said:So there's not a major jewish influence in neoconism. Ok. Whatever.
no1tovote4 said:No. When they are the minority of the group they are not the drive behind it. NeoCon principles are a real threat, but it isn't only the Jews that drive this. This is scapegoating... As a group the NeoCons are anathema to my political and personal values. I just don't blame only the jews among them, center them out, and give them special attention over the rest of the NeoCons. Just as I wouldn't separate only the women out and say that it was all their fault... so forth.
rtwngAvngr said:The general jewish line of thought on U.S. borders is they should be more open than closed. Jews feel safest in a multicultural environment. They admit this. Do you want links? They have a huge influence in both the neocon movement and america in general. Do you want links?
rtwngAvngr said:They are the policy leaders. Sorry. You're wrong. There is a major jewish influence in Neoconism.
no1tovote4 said:No. When they are the minority of the group they are not the drive behind it. NeoCon principles are a real threat, but it isn't only the Jews that drive this. This is scapegoating... As a group the NeoCons are anathema to my political and personal values. I just don't blame only the jews among them, center them out, and give them special attention over the rest of the NeoCons. Just as I wouldn't separate only the women out and say that it was all their fault... so forth.
For example, it is certainly true that the neocons foreign policy fits well with a plausible version of Jewish interests, but is arguably only tenuously related to the interests of the U.S. Also, neocons oppose the isolationism of important sections of traditional American conservatism. And neocon attitudes on issues like race and immigration differ profoundly from those of traditional mainstream conservatives but resemble closely the common attitudes of the wider American Jewish community.
Count me among those who accept that the Jewish commitment of leading neoconservatives has become a critical influence on U.S. policies, and that the effectiveness of the neoconservatives is greatly enhanced by their alliance with the organized Jewish community. In my opinion, this conclusion is based on solid data and reasonable inferences. But like any other theory, of course, it is subject to reasoned discussion and disproof.
We shouldnt be surprised by the importance of ethnicity in human affairs. Nor should we be intimidated by charges of anti-Semitism. We should be able to discuss these issues openly and honestly. This is a practical matter, not a moral one.
Ethnic politics in the U.S. are certainly not limited to Jewish activism. They are an absolutely normal phenomenon throughout history and around the world.
But for well over half a century, with rare exceptions, Jewish influence has been off-limits for rational discussion. Now, however, as the U.S. acquires an empire in the Middle East, this ban must inevitably fall away.
My views on these issues are shaped by my research on several other influential Jewish-dominated intellectual and political movements, including the Boasian school of anthropology, Freudian psychoanalysis, the Frankfurt School of Social Research, Marxism and several other movements of the radical left, as well as the movement to change the ethnic balance of the United States by allowing mass, non-traditional immigration.
My conclusion: Contemporary neoconservatism fits into the general pattern of Jewish intellectual and political activism I have identified in my work.
I am not, of course, saying that all Jews, or even most Jews, supported these movements. Nor did these movements work in concert: some were intensely hostile to one another. I am saying, however, that the key figures in these movements identified in some sense as Jews and viewed their participation as in some sense advancing Jewish interests.
no1tovote4 said:There is also a major "German" influence in NeoCon philosophy. Why are we not blaming the evil "Germans" among them? Or the French? Or the English descendants? It's all good, we can just blame this minority group and then we can still feel good about ourselves?
no1tovote4 said:I don't need links. NeoCons feel more comfortable in a multicultural environment, it is one of their goals to spread Western Style democracy throughout the world and to have open borders. It isn't just the jews among them with this goal, it is all of them. To specify just the jews in a group of like-minded people and to blame them for the whole of it is simply scapegoating. It makes people feel better if they don't specify their own ethnicity and they can blame it on "others", this is a representation of that line of thought.
no1tovote4 said:There is also a major "German" influence in NeoCon philosophy. Why are we not blaming the evil "Germans" among them? Or the French? Or the English descendants? It's all good, we can just blame this minority group and then we can still feel good about ourselves?
dilloduck said:I think it's a good idea to examine all the different influences on Neocon philosophy. I would be very interested to hear the German, French or English decendents influences. The more truth we know about anything that affects us is to our advantage. Lord knows we need to educate the electorate. Any reason to exclude the Jewish influence if it is indeed a dominating one?
no1tovote4 said:Separating them out by ethnicity is just scapegoating. The assumption that American Jews are looking out for Israel any more than Americans of German descent are looking out for Germany is simply an attempt at disparaging them to keep your scapegoat.
There is an assumption here that because they are Jewish they are Zionists. One could not be Zionist and NeoCon at the same time. Working for open borders and one specific type of government globally is not a goal of Zionism. These particular "jews" are just Americans with a bad philosophy just as those Americans of German or of French descent among them have an equally poor philosophy IMO.
America needs to focus on America, not on working toward homogenizing the world to an American-style one-size-fits all government.
Tripping so very very hard, seeing purple spots all over as the walls melt...no1tovote4 said:One could not be Zionist and NeoCon at the same time.
Working for open borders and one specific type of government globally is not a goal of Zionism. .
rtwngAvngr said:Tripping so very very hard, seeing purple spots all over as the walls melt...
