Why fight a battle that cannot be won?

rtwngAvngr said:
Welcome mr. conley, though you're obivously dense, here's clay the wannabe lib, too afraid to make a case, to kiss your hiney and give you the support you need. Clay's in touch with his feminine side.
Welcome mr. conley, here's RWA, Rush Limbaugh's personal puppet. He critiques my posts because he lacks a social life; if you spent as much time in your basement as he does, you'd understand.
 
Mr.Conley said:
For centuries human beings have killed, enslaved, persecuted, and discriminatied against one another. To this day the tradition continues, for example the Rwanda genocide, the Holocaust, the Balkin crisis have witnessed some of histories greatest atrocities. However despite continued persecution and discrimination, minority groups have continued to exist, resist, and revoult against their oppressors. African-Americans fought racism and prejudice in the South during the Civil Rights movement. The emerging Protestants fought the Catholics during the past centuries. Even the Jews resisted Roman efforts to enslave, convert, and conform Judaea after its conquest. With this historical fact of minority survival despite incredible obstacles, I question the reasons for the continued fight to restrict the rights and freedoms of our nation's gay and lesbian members. This particular minority is argueably the most established and oldest group in human history (consisting of a minumum of 4% of the population
[see http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120902,00.html ]

and existing since at least ancient Rome and China
[see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Gay_Community ].

This information clearly shows that despite continued subjugation, discrimination and isolation from society during the past several centuries, the gay community continues to thrive. As such, I question all those who fight to restrict the rights, privileges, and responsibilities of our fellow citizens.
(see the 14th amendment concerning said rights
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
)
I ask why, despite the historical facts stated above concerning the resiliance of the gay community, do you continue to tive toward the the destruction of this futile goal?

Note, what I am asking in this thread is not whether homosexuality is moral or immoral; rather, I question why those who dislike homosexuality continue to fight against it. Expeically in this day and age of the continued expansions of freedom.

Thank you

be gay all you want i don't care what you do....
i don't spend anytime worring about you or you battle....
if you all can evolve and reprodcuce have at it...
you all have had your due process per the 14th amendment several times and you keep losing ...
learn to fill out a will properly
get power of attorney forms signed
and move on with your life
 
Abbey Normal said:
Mr. Conley,
For purposes of discussion, can you tell us what we are doing to "restrict the rights and freedoms of our nation's gay and lesbian members" Put another way, what rights and freedoms do gays not have in the U.S.? Thanks.

(Btw, I noticed that you are a student located in Cambridge, and I think another of our newest members was a student in Cambridge, MA. Are you by chance roomies?)

as it was explained to me last night by the bulldyke couple that hates men.....man were they easy to wind up me being a neocon and having a penis and all ....they can not exercise their constitutional right, yes they said thatto marry and inherit each others property and vistit each other in the hospital and get spousal health care.....

i asked them if they had wills....no

i asked them if all their property has owned jointly....no

power of attorney to make decisions for each other....no

were they aware that california granted them the right to have a sig. other on their healthcare?....no

gay and stupid.....could be a cause and effect thing
 
manu1959 said:
be gay all you want i don't care what you do....
i don't spend anytime worring about you or you battle....
if you all can evolve and reprodcuce have at it...
you all have had your due process per the 14th amendment several times and you keep losing ...
learn to fill out a will properly
get power of attorney forms signed
and move on with your life

But if they do that, then they won't be able to convince anyone they are victims.

Regardless they are victims. not of anti gay sentiments, but of their own stupidity.
 
Welcome mr. conley, though you're obivously dense, here's clay the wannabe lib, too afraid to make a case, to kiss your hiney and give you the support you need. Clay's in touch with his feminine side.

I have to side with Hobbit on this. I got the same high and mighty attitude from your post. It was rather boring to read. And for me if this is how all your post are going to be, I'll not be reading to many more

Thank you for the nice welcome, good to meet you too.

For purposes of discussion, can you tell us what we are doing to "restrict the rights and freedoms of our nation's gay and lesbian members" Put another way, what rights and freedoms do gays not have in the U.S.? Thanks.

First allow me to apologize, looking over my post,I feel I ventured too much into my own personal opinion and forgot what I was trying to ask. Rather than commenting on whether or not gays have or have not had their rights restricted, I am asking those who oppose allowing gay marriage, adoption, etc. why they do so, espeically in light of the fact that, historically, gays, like most minorities, have been a very resiliant group.

Also, many would argue that all the parallels you have drawn between homosexuals and factions of religions or race are not, in reality very parallel.
What I am attempting to show is how minority groups have continued to flourish despite the societal stigmas they have faced. I just used those groups as an example, although minority groups cross the spectra of human interaction, spanning from cultural, religious, and racial, to ethnic, have generally survived despite being dominated by other outside forces. As another example I would use the Welsh. Despite having been under English rule for centuries, Welsh language and culture continues to exist and thrive even in today's increasingly homogenous world.

gay and stupid.....could be a cause and effect thing
I like to use more than two people from (presumably) similar backrounds (eg. nationality, culture, family backround) to sterotype a group of several tens of millions found across the entire planet.
 
mom4 said:
I have to admit, I think we should wait a LITTLE while before we start bashing the newcomers. I remember my own noobie days...
Certain people were very scary :cough: Kathianne :cough:
;)


Mom, for the life of me I'm trying to figure out what I did with you? Was that during Schiavo? :laugh:
 
Said1 said:
Phew. I thought you were going to say me. I could never imagine why though. :)

I can! :laugh: If it wasn't me, it would be you, unless of course OCA was around, then I would look sweet!
 
Abbey Normal said:
Mr. Conley,
For purposes of discussion, can you tell us what we are doing to "restrict the rights and freedoms of our nation's gay and lesbian members" Put another way, what rights and freedoms do gays not have in the U.S.? Thanks.
When I read this, I could totally see you in a quiet courtroom, wearing a gray suit and speaking to a nervous guy in a chair on a dais.
 
Kathianne said:
Mom, for the life of me I'm trying to figure out what I did with you? Was that during Schiavo? :laugh:
You know, I can't really even remember. I thought we were on the same side of Schiavo. It doesn't take much to scare me, at least in a new environment. I just remember thinking, "Boy, I don't want to mess with that Kathianne."
Don't worry. Now I know how nice you are! ;)
 
Mr.Conley said:
What I am attempting to show is how minority groups have continued to flourish despite the societal stigmas they have faced. I just used those groups as an example, although minority groups cross the spectra of human interaction, spanning from cultural, religious, and racial, to ethnic, have generally survived despite being dominated by other outside forces. As another example I would use the Welsh. Despite having been under English rule for centuries, Welsh language and culture continues to exist and thrive even in today's increasingly homogenous world.

Continued to flourish? How exactly do you define flourishing? I would think that the fact that a population has abnormal amounts of couple abuse and a life expectantcy of less nearly half of ordinary people would be a sign of a problem and not a sign of flourishing. These are the natural consequences of homosexual activity. I dont think I would describe them as flourishing.

Besides, did you ever think that maybe there is a good reason for the stigma? To keep people from engaging in harmful activities?

I am always amazed at people who want to change the world without first asking why the world is the way it is to begin with.
 
Avatar4321 said:
Continued to flourish? How exactly do you define flourishing? I would think that the fact that a population has abnormal amounts of couple abuse and a life expectantcy of less nearly half of ordinary people would be a sign of a problem and not a sign of flourishing. These are the natural consequences of homosexual activity. I dont think I would describe them as flourishing.

Besides, did you ever think that maybe there is a good reason for the stigma? To keep people from engaging in harmful activities?

I am always amazed at people who want to change the world without first asking why the world is the way it is to begin with.

Serial killers "flourish". Pedophiles "flourish".
 
Continued to flourish? How exactly do you define flourishing? I would think that the fact that a population has abnormal amounts of couple abuse and a life expectantcy of less nearly half of ordinary people would be a sign of a problem and not a sign of flourishing. These are the natural consequences of homosexual activity. I dont think I would describe them as flourishing.

Besides, did you ever think that maybe there is a good reason for the stigma? To keep people from engaging in harmful activities?

I am always amazed at people who want to change the world without first asking why the world is the way it is to begin with.

From the "Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English"
Flourish- to develop well
If you look at my post, you will find that firstly, my use of the word florish concerns the continued existance of minority groups despite often incuring the wrath of the larger, more powerful majority. Secondly, my remarks concerned the size and power of the group, not the individual members.

Also what when you say
a life expectantcy of less nearly half of ordinary people would be a sign of a problem and not a sign of flourishing.

what do you mean? That gay life expectancy is half that of ordinary people, or that half of ordinary people have a longer life expectancy, or something else. I apologize for not understanding.

Finally from what I understand from your post, the reason you feel some people are against homosexuality is because of the possible health problems that might arise from such behavior. Correct?
Serial killers "flourish". Pedophiles "flourish".
I would say you are correct in that both groups do exist despite societal stigma. If you are trying to equate these actions with homosexuality then I would disagree with you. This is because, unlike cultural, religious, sexual, and ethnic minorities, these two groups attempt to engage in activities with people outside of their own group. These people are usually unwilling participants in what occurs; however, the other groups as a whole do not force other people to participate. If a person wants to join another religion, culture, or nationality they can. Gay people to not require everyone else to be gay. Serial killers and pedophiles, however, force people to participate in vicious acts against their own will. This is what separates killers and rapist from gays, Catholics, Italians, and other worldwide global minorities.
 
Mr.Conley said:
Rather than commenting on whether or not gays have or have not had their rights restricted, I am asking those who oppose allowing gay marriage, adoption, etc. why they do so, espeically in light of the fact that, historically, gays, like most minorities, have been a very resiliant group.

Welcome to USMB!

First, I'll just let you know that we have had countless threads about gay amrriage, gay adoption, gay this, gay that, so if people seem put off, it's because this is an oft-discussed topic.

To answer your question: I oppose gay marriage, adoption by gay couples, etc. I believe that the discrimination is justified because homosexuality is a choice, whereas the Fourteenth Amendment is meant to provide equal protection of the laws to all people regardless of race, which is not a choice (unless you are Michael Jackson).
 

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