Why faith?

[Votto]

Why is faith promoted in religion? For the nonbeliever, it is because there is no God. For those of faith, what say you?

 

[uscitizen]

Why is faith promoted?
they have no proof, all they have is faith.

There is no proof of the existence of God, heaven or hell.

 

[Votto]

Why is faith promoted?
they have no proof, all they have is faith.

There is no proof of the existence of God, heaven or hell.

Proof or evidence? I think you will find that we can prove precious little.

 

[uscitizen]

Speak for yourself earthling.

 

[Hellokitty]

Why is faith promoted in religion? For the nonbeliever, it is because there is no God. For those of faith, what say you?

Faith associated with religion is belief in something not known by natural reason.

 

[Votto]

Why is faith promoted in religion? For the nonbeliever, it is because there is no God. For those of faith, what say you?

Faith associated with religion is belief in something not known by natural reason.

I would put it another way. If there is an all knowing God, then for that God to relate to finite beings, at some point faith must be exercised in that God due to the limited comprehension of those finite beings.

As I read Biblical examples of a lack of faith, something strikes me. We have examples of men and women having complete faith that God exists, but still losing faith in him. We see this in the example of Adam and Eve who walked and talked with God in the garden, yet they lost faith anyhow and partook of the apple. We see this in the example of the children of Israel who see God split oceans in two and see God send manna from heaven for them to eat, yet they lose faith and build a golden calf to worship in his stead.

If these stories have any truth in them, then it does not benefit God in any way to prove that he exists. That is because having faith in someone is far different than believing that they exist.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Why is faith promoted?
they have no proof, all they have is faith.

There is no proof of the existence of God, heaven or hell.

That's true... when the story is unprovable, like Origins, God & The Afterlife are, faith is all you've got.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Why is faith promoted in religion? For the nonbeliever, it is because there is no God. For those of faith, what say you?

Faith associated with religion is belief in something not known by natural reason.

I would put it another way. If there is an all knowing God, then for that God to relate to finite beings, at some point faith must be exercised in that God due to the limited comprehension of those finite beings.

As I read Biblical examples of a lack of faith, something strikes me. We have examples of men and women having complete faith that God exists, but still losing faith in him. We see this in the example of Adam and Eve who walked and talked with God in the garden, yet they lost faith anyhow and partook of the apple. We see this in the example of the children of Israel who see God split oceans in two and see God send manna from heaven for them to eat, yet they lose faith and build a golden calf to worship in his stead.

If these stories have any truth in them, then it does not benefit God in any way to prove that he exists. That is because having faith in someone is far different than believing that they exist.

You mean that if an omnipotent God were to actually walk among us turning water in to wine and raising the dead and shit, all featured in living color on CNN, FAUX and YouTube, you'd still need faith?

If I ever meet a being who acts in power like a god, I'll most likely treat him like a god, and it will be an easy decision.

 

[Hellokitty]

Why is faith promoted in religion? For the nonbeliever, it is because there is no God. For those of faith, what say you?

Faith associated with religion is belief in something not known by natural reason.

I would put it another way. If there is an all knowing God, then for that God to relate to finite beings, at some point faith must be exercised in that God due to the limited comprehension of those finite beings.

As I read Biblical examples of a lack of faith, something strikes me. We have examples of men and women having complete faith that God exists, but still losing faith in him. We see this in the example of Adam and Eve who walked and talked with God in the garden, yet they lost faith anyhow and partook of the apple. We see this in the example of the children of Israel who see God split oceans in two and see God send manna from heaven for them to eat, yet they lose faith and build a golden calf to worship in his stead.

If these stories have any truth in them, then it does not benefit God in any way to prove that he exists. That is because having faith in someone is far different than believing that they exist.

There are different levels of faith. A person can have faith God exists, but lose faith in trusting God to keep his promise.

 

[Votto]

Faith associated with religion is belief in something not known by natural reason.

I would put it another way. If there is an all knowing God, then for that God to relate to finite beings, at some point faith must be exercised in that God due to the limited comprehension of those finite beings.

As I read Biblical examples of a lack of faith, something strikes me. We have examples of men and women having complete faith that God exists, but still losing faith in him. We see this in the example of Adam and Eve who walked and talked with God in the garden, yet they lost faith anyhow and partook of the apple. We see this in the example of the children of Israel who see God split oceans in two and see God send manna from heaven for them to eat, yet they lose faith and build a golden calf to worship in his stead.

If these stories have any truth in them, then it does not benefit God in any way to prove that he exists. That is because having faith in someone is far different than believing that they exist.

There are different levels of faith. A person can have faith God exists, but lose faith in trusting God to keep his promise.

God seems only interested in those that trust him. After all, whether you don't trust him or do not think he exists, you will act just the same towards him either way.

 

[Intense]

Why is faith promoted in religion? For the nonbeliever, it is because there is no God. For those of faith, what say you?

Faith associated with religion is belief in something not known by natural reason.

I would put it another way. If there is an all knowing God, then for that God to relate to finite beings, at some point faith must be exercised in that God due to the limited comprehension of those finite beings.

As I read Biblical examples of a lack of faith, something strikes me. We have examples of men and women having complete faith that God exists, but still losing faith in him. We see this in the example of Adam and Eve who walked and talked with God in the garden, yet they lost faith anyhow and partook of the apple. We see this in the example of the children of Israel who see God split oceans in two and see God send manna from heaven for them to eat, yet they lose faith and build a golden calf to worship in his stead.

If these stories have any truth in them, then it does not benefit God in any way to prove that he exists. That is because having faith in someone is far different than believing that they exist.

From another perspective, conversation and the tangents may indeed pattern off of the Tower of Babel. I stopped blaming God for what we do with the Free Will that He gave us, way back. There are always going to be obstacles to overcome, that's just life. I can't prove to you that God Is, I can't prove His presence, but I can feel it, and take comfort in it, so can you. I find cause and effect too exact, to doubt it for a minute. Do I doubt Myself? All the time. When in doubt, check your premise, find the tangent, the disconnect, repair what you can. What is the most important factor in a relationship with God? The Effect on those around you? Nope, though that is an added blessing. What is most important for each of us, concerning Salvation, is God first in all things. There is a Moral Right, by design. There is a part in each of us, that yearns to be a part of that, by design. Rejecting what other people tell you God is or isn't is secondary to Conscience telling you what is and isn't. Feed it or starve it, it's your life. Consider that the unique value of each of us, may be of more weight than the tangents we create in this life, this phase. What was before, what comes next, who can speak with authority on? Who exactly? So when we are done branding and labeling what we think God is or Isn't, where are we in relation to Vision, Ideal, Clarity of Purpose? Who are we to limit or obstruct others in their walk of Faith? Why would we? To what end?

 

[uscitizen]

Some havr too great a sense of personal responsibility and self determination to have faith in a all powerful god that controls our lives and such.

Most seem to have a need to believe in something greater and follow that lead.

I have no heroes.

 

[whitehall]

Why is faith promoted in religion? For the nonbeliever, it is because there is no God. For those of faith, what say you?

Think about the theory of man-made global warming and it will give you some idea of the secular concept of faith.

 

[Intense]

Some havr too great a sense of personal responsibility and self determination to have faith in a all powerful god that controls our lives and such.

Most seem to have a need to believe in something greater and follow that lead.

I have no heroes.

For some, the birth of personal responsibility, is evidence of a higher purpose.

 

[uscitizen]

Some havr too great a sense of personal responsibility and self determination to have faith in a all powerful god that controls our lives and such.

Most seem to have a need to believe in something greater and follow that lead.

I have no heroes.

For some, the birth of personal responsibility, is evidence of a higher purpose.

It may be just me, but that makes no sense.

 

[Intense]

Some havr too great a sense of personal responsibility and self determination to have faith in a all powerful god that controls our lives and such.

Most seem to have a need to believe in something greater and follow that lead.

I have no heroes.

For some, the birth of personal responsibility, is evidence of a higher purpose.

It may be just me, but that makes no sense.

To me, knowing personal responsibility, while failing to realize there is a natural order, to the Universe, whether we profess to understand it or not, doesn't make any sense. Denying something beyond comprehension serves what end? Even looking at cause and effect, we learn to distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil, level and degree, 10 fold, 30 fold, 100 fold. Or do we deny the consequense of our thought, word, and actions?

For some, the birth of personal responsibility, is evidence of a higher purpose.

It may be just me, but that makes no sense.

Try looking at it as a connect between each of us, and something greater than even our combined selves.

 

[Truthmatters]

How else do you promote an system with No proof that any of its tennents have a basis in fact?

 

[emilynghiem]

Why is faith promoted in religion? For the nonbeliever, it is because there is no God. For those of faith, what say you?

Faith associated with religion is belief in something not known by natural reason.

I would put it another way. If there is an all knowing God, then for that God to relate to finite beings, at some point faith must be exercised in that God due to the limited comprehension of those finite beings.

As I read Biblical examples of a lack of faith, something strikes me. We have examples of men and women having complete faith that God exists, but still losing faith in him. We see this in the example of Adam and Eve who walked and talked with God in the garden, yet they lost faith anyhow and partook of the apple. We see this in the example of the children of Israel who see God split oceans in two and see God send manna from heaven for them to eat, yet they lose faith and build a golden calf to worship in his stead.

If these stories have any truth in them, then it does not benefit God in any way to prove that he exists. That is because having faith in someone is far different than believing that they exist.

Instead of putting it in terms of "believing in existence" (which you are right in that it does not preclude making up idolatrous rituals out of such faith), I would clarify that the point is to reach a universal UNDERSTANDING of what God and Jesus and the purpose of life MEAN. if we agree on the meaning and purpose (such as agreeing on benefits of believing in good will, in truth and justice for all, in peace for all humanity through forgiveness and correction to restore harmony with neighbors and with global society), then such faith WOULD FACILITATE achieving these goals of living by love of truth, justice and humanity.

It helps to have faith in justice first, in order to take steps to achieve it (even though such faith in justice could also lead down wrong roads during the learning process).
It helps to have faith that truth overcomes falsehood, and love overcomes fear,
in order to develop and apply ourselves to achieving this in real practice and relations.

In either case, especially where faith is abused to go wrong, having faith that truth, justice and love will prevail also helps with the process itself, so we can forgive and correct where people do make false conditions or idols along the way, and still reach higher goals in life.

 

[emilynghiem]

How else do you promote an system with No proof that any of its tennents have a basis in fact?

You align the meaning of the message in the Bible or other teachings
with principles and values of the person or audience you are addressing.
If these are truly universal to all humanity, there must be something in
each person's beliefs that is the equivalent between the various systems.
===============================================
[Rough example, instead of proving "3" means "three things" (which is true by definition)
you find out what someone else calls a set of "three things" and align their terms with "3"
to mean "that quantity or quality". You don't argue whether "3" exists or not because it's just
a name or symbol for those things. You find out "what is the meaning behind this term"
that IS VALID for other people. The tricky part is not everyone focuses on the same aspects of what God means. Some focus on truth, love, wisdom, life, creation, universal laws, good will, etc. So the set of "three things" may vary from person to person or per religion etc. The most common patterns I find are believing in some relationship between the local and global, the individual/physical and the collective or spiritual level. And whatever you call the connecting level between the other two also has a name for that concept or purpose. For example: body/mind/spirit, physical/mental/spiritual, id/ego/superego, or individual/relationship/global society. Whatever is the highest level of truth/goodness is what God represents. And whatever connects the individual human/physical level to this higher collective/universal level, that connecting level is where people are interrelated through conscience or Christ, or bound by common laws of justice between us, whatever you call the central connection. No one's values are going to be expressed identically, but they tend to align in this pattern, because all people are body/mind/spirit and we project that pattern onto anything else we define in the world, even using culturally diverse terms and laws. They follow the same patterns, so this can be shown to align and point to the same things.]

 

[emilynghiem]

Some havr too great a sense of personal responsibility and self determination to have faith in a all powerful god that controls our lives and such.

Most seem to have a need to believe in something greater and follow that lead.

I have no heroes.

But you do agree you yourself do not create the justice and truth and love in the world.
It is there and we are sharing in it, circulating and enforcing things in that spirit.

But we ourselves are not the ones generating it. The spirit of love, truth or justice flows through us, and dwells in our relationships. We make our own decisions how to act on it, but that does not negate the fact the spirit of justice (or injustice) is already in the world and we are responding to it, either facilitating peace and justice or obstructing it.