Why Dont We Ban MSG?

[ZackB]

Jim has become one of those idiot members of the masses that worries what his country can do for him, even though he probably pays little, if any, taxes. This breeds government dependency.

Jim, you are part of the problem now, dude. Why not just go black face too?

 

[Uncensored2008]

so there were no obese people before msg?

So you have the intellect of a pile of dog shit?

 

[Pogo]

I won't discount the studies out of hand, but I do have some issues as to how they were reported...
What was the dosage given to the rats and mice, in comparison to the equivalent for an average human? Excessive amounts of anything given to lab animals will skew results and cause problems. That's why I have problems with statements like "_____ has been proven to cause ______ in laboratory animals".
"Studies have found that adding MSG to certain foods, such as soup and mashed potatoes, has been successful in increasing the food intake in institutionalized elderly populations." From my understanding (and personal experience as well) many elderly persons tend to have a reduced sense of taste to begin with. If a food tastes better to them, then their preference will be toward that food rather than one that (to them) has little or no flavor at all, possibly resulting in greater consumption.

Your conclusion here doesn't necessarily follow. For instance it's true that tolerance to "heat" (as in capsicum) increases with age, i.e. you can take more Scoville units (perceive them less). So you simply put more heat on until you reach your desired level. That's what I do. But that has no effect on the total volume.

Same thing with spices and seasonings in general -- you end up consuming more seasoning, not more food.

Not in all cases.

What to Do if Your Elderly Parent Won't Eat - AgingCare.com
"Dining involves many senses: aromas, colors and tastes in one's mouth; but many mature adults experience a lessening of the senses of smell and sense of taste in their aging process. There is a reduction in the experience that, in turn, lessens the personal desire for food. There is no magic pill to restore full senses of smell and taste.
As caregiver and chief cook, you can alter your recipes, switching from typical spices used in the past or as used by your parent in his or her own cooking, to herbs and spices with a bit more zing, and that introduce a new, added flavor to the dish." (Bolding mine)

I would imagine that the problem is magnified among the institutionalized elderly, as mentioned in the OP's article. Although in that situation, the increased food intake is possibly more of a return toward normal food intake (due to more flavorful food) than it is an increase over normal.

Now you're shifting to treating undereating -- not overeating. Moving your own goalposts.

Again, assuming a normal diet, aging may just make more 'bite' necessary to enjoy what you were already eating. But that does not translate to overeating, which was the original point.

 

[Pogo]

I won't discount the studies out of hand, but I do have some issues as to how they were reported...
What was the dosage given to the rats and mice, in comparison to the equivalent for an average human? Excessive amounts of anything given to lab animals will skew results and cause problems. That's why I have problems with statements like "_____ has been proven to cause ______ in laboratory animals".
"Studies have found that adding MSG to certain foods, such as soup and mashed potatoes, has been successful in increasing the food intake in institutionalized elderly populations." From my understanding (and personal experience as well) many elderly persons tend to have a reduced sense of taste to begin with. If a food tastes better to them, then their preference will be toward that food rather than one that (to them) has little or no flavor at all, possibly resulting in greater consumption.

I believe that it mentioned somewhere that Americans consume about a teaspoon of MSG per day, and scientists give rats much less in ratio to their body mass to make them obese.

As I said, I'm not discounting the studies. However, when the methodology isn't given, I begin to doubt the validity.
For example, did they give the rats 34mg (equiv. to a teaspoon in a human)? More? Less? How often?
Without that data, all it shows is a correlation but it does nothing to prove causation.
On a similar note, I also have problems with studies that claim "_____ increases the risk of _____ by __%". Unless actual ratios are given, percentages are not only meaningless but allow the studies to capitalize on sensationalism.

The validity of tests performed on rats only applies to DemocRATS.
Appropriately.

That must mean that the republicans are too far gone to bother with.

Presumably according to his logic --- RepubliCANS only eat CANNED food. Good stuff like, y'know, Alpo.

 

[rcfieldz]

Make
Super
Gut

 

[rcfieldz]

I won't discount the studies out of hand, but I do have some issues as to how they were reported...
What was the dosage given to the rats and mice, in comparison to the equivalent for an average human? Excessive amounts of anything given to lab animals will skew results and cause problems. That's why I have problems with statements like "_____ has been proven to cause ______ in laboratory animals".
"Studies have found that adding MSG to certain foods, such as soup and mashed potatoes, has been successful in increasing the food intake in institutionalized elderly populations." From my understanding (and personal experience as well) many elderly persons tend to have a reduced sense of taste to begin with. If a food tastes better to them, then their preference will be toward that food rather than one that (to them) has little or no flavor at all, possibly resulting in greater consumption.

I believe that it mentioned somewhere that Americans consume about a teaspoon of MSG per day, and scientists give rats much less in ratio to their body mass to make them obese.

When did they start putting MSG in cheese?

 

[JimBowie1958]

so there were no obese people before msg?

So you have the intellect of a pile of dog shit?

That much should be apparent to anyone that follows daws posts.

But he does make a lot more sense on ignore.

 

[JimBowie1958]

When did they start putting MSG in cheese?

Dont know about cheese, but it's obviously in alot of whine since Tuesday night.

 

[JimBowie1958]

That must mean that the republicans are too far gone to bother with.

And that response must mean that you are a moron.

Well, that and about a gazzillion other posts he has made.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You do realise that those test involve giving the rats what amount to a life time of consumption in a very short period of time. Drink to much water and it will kill you.

Yeah, I am going to reinvestigate the topic more. I cant find the study I had from a couple of months ago that was more incriminating than the one I did have.

But even if MSG is shown to lead to over-eating on a statistically significant basis, we need to restrict it. But I am not sure that what I have read justifies even that level of harm any more. Alyster has raised some good questions and I have to admit that it needs further digging on my part.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

You do realise that those test involve giving the rats what amount to a life time of consumption in a very short period of time. Drink to much water and it will kill you.

Yeah, I am going to reinvestigate the topic more. I cant find the study I had from a couple of months ago that was more incriminating than the one I did have.

But even if MSG is shown to lead to over-eating on a statistically significant basis, we need to restrict it. But I am not sure that what I have read justifies even that level of harm any more. Alyster has raised some good questions and I have to admit that it needs further digging on my part.

Food or its ingredient do not lead to over-eating the lack of discipline and genetics does.

 

[Alystyr]

I won't discount the studies out of hand, but I do have some issues as to how they were reported...
What was the dosage given to the rats and mice, in comparison to the equivalent for an average human? Excessive amounts of anything given to lab animals will skew results and cause problems. That's why I have problems with statements like "_____ has been proven to cause ______ in laboratory animals".
"Studies have found that adding MSG to certain foods, such as soup and mashed potatoes, has been successful in increasing the food intake in institutionalized elderly populations." From my understanding (and personal experience as well) many elderly persons tend to have a reduced sense of taste to begin with. If a food tastes better to them, then their preference will be toward that food rather than one that (to them) has little or no flavor at all, possibly resulting in greater consumption.

Your conclusion here doesn't necessarily follow. For instance it's true that tolerance to "heat" (as in capsicum) increases with age, i.e. you can take more Scoville units (perceive them less). So you simply put more heat on until you reach your desired level. That's what I do. But that has no effect on the total volume.

Same thing with spices and seasonings in general -- you end up consuming more seasoning, not more food.

Not in all cases.

What to Do if Your Elderly Parent Won't Eat - AgingCare.com
"Dining involves many senses: aromas, colors and tastes in one's mouth; but many mature adults experience a lessening of the senses of smell and sense of taste in their aging process. There is a reduction in the experience that, in turn, lessens the personal desire for food. There is no magic pill to restore full senses of smell and taste.
As caregiver and chief cook, you can alter your recipes, switching from typical spices used in the past or as used by your parent in his or her own cooking, to herbs and spices with a bit more zing, and that introduce a new, added flavor to the dish." (Bolding mine)

I would imagine that the problem is magnified among the institutionalized elderly, as mentioned in the OP's article. Although in that situation, the increased food intake is possibly more of a return toward normal food intake (due to more flavorful food) than it is an increase over normal.

Now you're shifting to treating undereating -- not overeating. Moving your own goalposts.

Again, assuming a normal diet, aging may just make more 'bite' necessary to enjoy what you were already eating. But that does not translate to overeating, which was the original point.

I beg to differ. I was merely responding, supporting my conclusion as to how MSG could cause someone to eat more.

Overeating, by the way, was never proven by any of the info that the OP posted or linked. "(I)ncreasing the food intake in institutionalized elderly populations", does not necessarily equate to overeating. In fact, I can see it as being more beneficial than harmful, if true.
Also, the study listed in post #29 showed no indication of overeating when MSG was added to the diet. In fact, the only obesity observed was when the MSG was injected in unrealistic amounts.

Any article, such as the one linked in the first post, that is written solely as an advertisement for a book causes me to examine it with a much more critical eye. The author may be telling the truth, but the claims stated shouldn't be taken at face value.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You do realise that those test involve giving the rats what amount to a life time of consumption in a very short period of time. Drink to much water and it will kill you.

Yeah, I am going to reinvestigate the topic more. I cant find the study I had from a couple of months ago that was more incriminating than the one I did have.

But even if MSG is shown to lead to over-eating on a statistically significant basis, we need to restrict it. But I am not sure that what I have read justifies even that level of harm any more. Alyster has raised some good questions and I have to admit that it needs further digging on my part.

What is your level of confidence? What test will you use for significance? A t value? Z value? F value?

What are your null and alternate hypothesis? Will you conduct linear regression and produce an ANOVA table? What degree of freedom will you use?

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

I don't see where he makes that case --- he says we have a corresponding sky-rocketing [sic] rate of diabetes and obesity.

I make the same case (on obesity) about wheat. It doesn't mean any one of them are a sole source.

Obviously even with MSG in our foods, through dieting and exercise one can keep ones weight low, but some cannot due to physical or mental weakness.

But MSG is one factor among many, including the lifestyles and eating habits many families developed prior to WW2 when calories were more difficult to get, but these being maintained in a post WW2 economy where calories are way more abundant.

Technology is another factor. Computers, video games, internet, hundreds of tv channels make for a sedentary life style.

 

[HenryBHough]

I don't like eggs.

So many, many people are allergic to them!

Eggs kill!!!

Only solution: KILL ALL THE CHICKENS!!!


See how that works?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Food or its ingredient do not lead to over-eating the lack of discipline and genetics does.

Some food ingredients may in effect be addictive and cause harmful changes to the dietary system. We still cannot explain the development of Metabolic Syndrome X and this syndrome is an underlying factor in all cases of obesity and type 2 diabetes.

Your notion that it is simply a matter of over eating is antiquated and disproven over a decade ago.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I don't like eggs.

So many, many people are allergic to them!

Eggs kill!!!

Only solution: KILL ALL THE CHICKENS!!!


See how that works?

I see how it doesnt work, yes.

Putting carcinogens and poison in food is also banned, see how that works?

 

[JimBowie1958]

You do realise that those test involve giving the rats what amount to a life time of consumption in a very short period of time. Drink to much water and it will kill you.

Yeah, I am going to reinvestigate the topic more. I cant find the study I had from a couple of months ago that was more incriminating than the one I did have.

But even if MSG is shown to lead to over-eating on a statistically significant basis, we need to restrict it. But I am not sure that what I have read justifies even that level of harm any more. Alyster has raised some good questions and I have to admit that it needs further digging on my part.

What is your level of confidence? What test will you use for significance? A t value? Z value? F value?

What are your null and alternate hypothesis? Will you conduct linear regression and produce an ANOVA table? What degree of freedom will you use?

I am not doing the experiments and studies, merely reading more on the topic, so I am not setting any of these variables, dude, like any normal person would expect.

And I have no level of confidence at this moment because I havent completed my delving into the matter more. I want to be able to address Allysters questions and comments which have been very helpful.

 

[HenryBHough]

Nope.

I don't like eggs so, in the interests of fairness ya gotta:

KILL ALL THE CHICKENS!

It doesn't have to make sense so long as it captures media attention.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Nope.

I don't like eggs so, in the interests of fairness ya gotta:

KILL ALL THE CHICKENS!

It doesn't have to make sense so long as it captures media attention.

Sense when did making sense have anything to do with capturing the medias attention?