Why don't they simply make every student take a standard test and rate teachers on that?

[Crepitus]

If they test students at the beginning of the course and the end of the course, they could objectively evaluate how good each teacher is. Anyone who argues against the practice is against objective analysis of teachers.

They did that, called it common core, conservitards hated it.

 

[SweetSue92]

Of course...students are widgets....they all respond exactly the same to instruction.

No, some are smarter than others.

I'm not opposed, by the way, to teachers being expected to be at least competent, if not great. Do not mistake me. It's not okay to have sub-adequate teachers in our classrooms. But I don't think you measure this by output on standardized tests, because you are talking in some cases about young children coming from a variety of backgrounds who, in some situations, just CANNOT learn. No matter what the teacher does or does not do, or how competent the teacher is.

There are other methods of judging teacher competency that, when blended with student standardized test achievement over time, would give a better picture. But not a snapshot of student test achievement one year and then one year and then one year. Because there are too many learning factors at play over which the teacher has no control.

They would have to create an algorithm that factored in the student's performance at the beginning of the course as well as the performance gains the student has made in the past when making an analysis based on the score. You simply have to minimize subjective analysis.

How would that precious "algorithm" factor in that the student has newly lost his home because his father is in prison, his mother has committed suicide and he is in foster homes now?

You realize humans are not widgets, right, and none of how we respond to anything is "simply"????

That one student may score low despite the teacher's best efforts, except he's not going to cause the entire class to score low.

In certain schools in the US--what do you think they're filled with, as far as student home lives go?

 

[SweetSue92]

If they test students at the beginning of the course and the end of the course, they could objectively evaluate how good each teacher is. Anyone who argues against the practice is against objective analysis of teachers.

Anyone who thinks that is a good idea is a moron!

Anyone who doesn't like it is avoiding quantification and avoiding objective analysis.

In a perfect world, that would be true, but unfortunately that is not the case. Ignoring the realities is what makes you a moron.

He's like an engineer or an accountant that thinks human beings can be "objectively analyzed" like widgets. You did well--when you apply this to dentists or driving instructors or any other profession that applies to ADULTS it sounds ludicrous. But for some reason people think teachers can just MAKE those children learn no matter what.

 

[SweetSue92]

I guess you don't understand the mathematical meaning of "average".

Take 9 scores of 100 and average in a 10th score of 0. Your class average is now one letter grade lower thanks to one student!

If one of your students gets an actual zero, as opposed to simply a failing grade like 50, you actually do suck.

Why do you think that is impossible? Many students today refuse to learn anything or even answer the questions on the test, even if they know the correct answer.

I have watched students take the ACT (which is required) by taking their answer sheet, "Christmas-tree" in random answers and then take a 45 minute nap. How do you think their score impacts the average score of the class?

That is the fault of teachers who refuse to discipline the students no matter how much the school counselors and psychiatrists plead with them that physical punishment is often underutilized in the classroom. They let the students run the school.

Congratulations! It is only February and you are the frontrunner for Stupid Post of the Year. Teachers do not make the rules, dumbass!

How old are you? Twelve? Thirteen?

Shut up. Teachers rarely slam students heads into walls, paddle them, chokeslam them etc. when they are verbally disrespectful. They also don't suspend or simply kick the students to the curb enough. A principal I grew up with was let go because a student cocked off, he picked him up by his hair and was going to start slamming his head into the wall, when the kid's wig popped off and the little snowflake ran out of the school bawling. It turned out the kid had cancer and hardly anybody knew. How could he have known that? All the teachers pushed for him to be let go. A guy tries to help out and make a difference and that is the thanks he gets. The schools are turning out troublemakers.

Well, here it is then. Nothing wrong with slamming kids' heads into the wall by their hair. Only transgression was when the kid had cancer and was trying to hide it with a wig.

I'm happy to disagree with you on absolutely everything. It makes me feel better as a human being this morning, quite honestly.

 

[SweetSue92]

I don’t think it is a good idea myself.

That being said, going upward from a year-by-year basis and taking a look at Mrs. Henry’s class over 5-10 years is probably a good idea. If the graduates of Mrs. Henry’s math class are constantly failing the periodically given standardized tests…that should be a cause for concern.

I’m guessing that districts or State boards of education never do that sort of thing and trace students who fail or not do well on the test back to a specific instructor.

Agreed. More to the point, looking at her classes against kids in similar classes of peers in similar socioeconomic circumstances over time--blended with her teacher evaluations--would give a good picture. And seems fair.

 

[candycorn]

I don’t think it is a good idea myself.

That being said, going upward from a year-by-year basis and taking a look at Mrs. Henry’s class over 5-10 years is probably a good idea. If the graduates of Mrs. Henry’s math class are constantly failing the periodically given standardized tests…that should be a cause for concern.

I’m guessing that districts or State boards of education never do that sort of thing and trace students who fail or not do well on the test back to a specific instructor.

Agreed. More to the point, looking at her classes against kids in similar classes of peers in similar socioeconomic circumstances over time--blended with her teacher evaluations--would give a good picture. And seems fair.

Longer term is always better than a one year snapshot.

 

[mgh80]

I don’t think it is a good idea myself.

That being said, going upward from a year-by-year basis and taking a look at Mrs. Henry’s class over 5-10 years is probably a good idea. If the graduates of Mrs. Henry’s math class are constantly failing the periodically given standardized tests…that should be a cause for concern.

I’m guessing that districts or State boards of education never do that sort of thing and trace students who fail or not do well on the test back to a specific instructor.

Who told you this? I'm evaluated on the test performance of my students over the previous 3 school year from my district.

 

[baileyn45]

If they test students at the beginning of the course and the end of the course, they could objectively evaluate how good each teacher is. Anyone who argues against the practice is against objective analysis of teachers.

My problem with that idea is that most of the problems are in the home not the teachers.

 

[candycorn]

I don’t think it is a good idea myself.

That being said, going upward from a year-by-year basis and taking a look at Mrs. Henry’s class over 5-10 years is probably a good idea. If the graduates of Mrs. Henry’s math class are constantly failing the periodically given standardized tests…that should be a cause for concern.

I’m guessing that districts or State boards of education never do that sort of thing and trace students who fail or not do well on the test back to a specific instructor.

Who told you this? I'm evaluated on the test performance of my students over the previous 3 school year from my district.

Nobody. It was my guess.

I’m glad to see they are doing it.

 

[regent]

If they test students at the beginning of the course and the end of the course, they could objectively evaluate how good each teacher is. Anyone who argues against the practice is against objective analysis of teachers.

A great idea. The problem would be luring the better students into your classes. It seems many people believe all students come with the same abilities, same intelligence and so on. I would name my classroom an Academy and fool the parents that into believing the route to college is with an Academy Education. I'd give high grades to show parents the improvement the Academy offers.