CDZ Why don't American, so called, "feminists" go after the hijab...an actual symbol of oppression....

[Lysistrata]

This thread is just another attempt to distract people who fight for equality between the sexes from the major issues facing women in our country, a good deal of which involve male-supremacist Fundie Prots.

As long as the hijab is worn voluntarily, there is no problem. There are a lot of Muslims in my neighborhood. Some wear it and some don't. My Pakistani landlord, who has adopted me as his "mom," would never force his wife, his daughter (and he prayed so hard to have her!), or me to do anything against our will.

The current business of trying to hitch every bad thing to Islam is ridiculous and pathetic.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It's telling the truth.

What we have seen throughout this thread is just another textbook example of what we always see in threads like this: Challenge a group on the Regressive Left's "Oppressed/Oppressor" ledger and you'll immediately be met with spin, deflection, distortion, and personal attacks.

Worse, the thread cuts to the core - the hypocrisy of those who spin, deflect and attack for their pet constituent religion. That's why they get so animated. They're working hard to avoid an honest discussion of the original point, as always.
.

What I find particularly arch is the way they support the TRUE oppressor in the process. Yes, by all means, let's reject Ayaan Hirsi Ali because she refuses to go back to her masters.

Some of this goes well beyond mere apologia as it becomes an active instrument of Jihad, instead.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Republicans attacking women again. Good job.

And this coming from people who protect and support American Nazi's and the Alt White.

Or you could tell the truth, instead.

It's your choice.

 

[Circe]

Ok -----the topic is-------as I read it. "is the head covering mandated by divine Islamic law oppressive
to women to the extent that persons seeking to oppose oppression SHOULD oppose the head covering
mandated by divine Islamic law or be guilty of hypocrisy"?? My comment is ---I oppose oppression of
ALL HUMANS and, therefore, do not find it POSSIBLE to discuss this tiny issue IN ISOLATION---time for
me to leave this thread

Interesting reaction that caused me to look at the thread title more carefully. There is a problem comma that may mean U.S. feminists are only "so-called" Americans --- that is, not really Americans at all.

I think the title is a blanket condemnation of American feminists as not objecting to an obvious feminist issue of forced hijab-wearing because we're all a bunch of worthless leftists and therefore support anything Muslims do, including hijab-forcing and maybe other atrocities.

To that I would like to say that there are two important ways to divide up today --- left vs. right and male vs. female. And one person, a female, is likely to divide differently from men because some issues fall differently for us. I know that for sure, being both a conservative and a feminist (Second Wave). So I end up getting called a Communist by a lot of conservative men because they don't like the feminist stance on abortion, for instance, and Communist is the worst word they know that won't get censored in this forum.

 

[Mac1958]

It's telling the truth.

What we have seen throughout this thread is just another textbook example of what we always see in threads like this: Challenge a group on the Regressive Left's "Oppressed/Oppressor" ledger and you'll immediately be met with spin, deflection, distortion, and personal attacks.

Worse, the thread cuts to the core - the hypocrisy of those who spin, deflect and attack for their pet constituent religion. That's why they get so animated. They're working hard to avoid an honest discussion of the original point, as always.
.

What I find particularly arch is the way they support the TRUE oppressor in the process. Yes, by all means, let's reject Ayaan Hirsi Ali because she refuses to go back to her masters.

Some of this goes well beyond mere apologia as it becomes an active instrument of Jihad, instead.

That's the genesis of the term "Regressive Left", coined by a liberal Muslim Brit. With their actions, they ultimately end up aligning themselves with the most regressive groups in the world.
.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

[
You essentially did just that by marginalizing it in the Amish community.

I did not marginalize the Amish community. I pointed out that you were indulging in a tu quoque fallacy by trying to derail the discussion from Islam as well as indulge in a false equivalence.

You said you DO know what a tu quoque fallacy is yet you are doubling down on the use of such. The only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that you are doing so quite intentionally. As such, your claims as to wanting an "honest discussion" need to be placed in proper context here because the deliberate use of fallacious argumentation is inherently dishonest.

The discussion, here, is about Islam and the hypocrisy of some people in addressing. If you wish to discuss a tiny Christian sect, perhaps you could open up a thread about them.

 

[Jroc]

again, I'll say it one more time. Our problem with the Islamic World is NOT- I repeat - NOT their religion being any sillier than any other religion.

Our problem with the Islamic World is that we are over there in their lands, either directly or by proxy, making their lives fairly miserable and SOME of them are acting out.

Now, I'm old enough to remember all the horror stories people told about how savage the Vietnamese were during the Vietnam War, how they would have their kids stab our GI's with punji sticks and such. But really, they were doing exactly what Americans or anyone else would do under the same circumstances when faced with a more powerful aggressor- fighting back in whatever way they can.

Islam is not an existential threat to us like Communism or Fascism. If we leave them alone, they'll leave us alone.

I love how you characterize suicide bombings, truck-rammings, rape gangs, and military style armed assaults against innocent people as merely "acting out". Muslims have proven time and time again that their propensity towards violence is beyond the pale. So-called moderate muslims when polled, say that killing innocents is a-ok as long as it's done for the "right reasons". This is not exactly anything new, Islamic civilization has been at war with the west for thousands of years.

If we applied the standards of today's leftist to the vietnam war, you guys would have told everyone we're racist for noticing that Vietnamese are sadistic torturers and that we should immigrate millions of them per year to atone for the sin of noticing. If the islamic hordes were contained to their shithole countries and nuclear weapons didn't exist then calling it an existential threat would be an exaggeration. As it stands however, suicidal leftist policy has pretty much handed all of western europe over to Islam and they want to do the same thing here in the US.

Joey approves of nutjob islamist countries like Iran having nuclear weapons ...Just ask him...Is that flaming?

It's telling the truth.

The truth seems to need approval from the apologist here

 

[Dogmaphobe]

again, I'll say it one more time. Our problem with the Islamic World is NOT- I repeat - NOT their religion being any sillier than any other religion.

Our problem with the Islamic World is that we are over there in their lands, either directly or by proxy, making their lives fairly miserable and SOME of them are acting out.

Now, I'm old enough to remember all the horror stories people told about how savage the Vietnamese were during the Vietnam War, how they would have their kids stab our GI's with punji sticks and such. But really, they were doing exactly what Americans or anyone else would do under the same circumstances when faced with a more powerful aggressor- fighting back in whatever way they can.

Islam is not an existential threat to us like Communism or Fascism. If we leave them alone, they'll leave us alone.

I love how you characterize suicide bombings, truck-rammings, rape gangs, and military style armed assaults against innocent people as merely "acting out". Muslims have proven time and time again that their propensity towards violence is beyond the pale. So-called moderate muslims when polled, say that killing innocents is a-ok as long as it's done for the "right reasons". This is not exactly anything new, Islamic civilization has been at war with the west for thousands of years.

If we applied the standards of today's leftist to the vietnam war, you guys would have told everyone we're racist for noticing that Vietnamese are sadistic torturers and that we should immigrate millions of them per year to atone for the sin of noticing. If the islamic hordes were contained to their shithole countries and nuclear weapons didn't exist then calling it an existential threat would be an exaggeration. As it stands however, suicidal leftist policy has pretty much handed all of western europe over to Islam and they want to do the same thing here in the US.

Joey approves of nutjob islamist countries like Iran having nuclear weapons ...Just ask him...Is that flaming?

It's telling the truth.

The truth seems to need approval from the apologist here

The entire notion of truth in Islam has to do with whether they are interacting with another Muslim or with an infidel. Lying to protect Islam or help spread Islam is perfectly acceptable, including lying to others as to ones identity as a Muslim

In the Islamic world, many ideas are prohibited. Truth is always subverted to Islam. Those that cannot tolerate any truth being told about Islam are telling us where their sympathies lie.

 

[JoeB131]

I love how you characterize suicide bombings, truck-rammings, rape gangs, and military style armed assaults against innocent people as merely "acting out". Muslims have proven time and time again that their propensity towards violence is beyond the pale. So-called moderate muslims when polled, say that killing innocents is a-ok as long as it's done for the "right reasons". This is not exactly anything new, Islamic civilization has been at war with the west for thousands of years.

Okay, so today we had 17 people killed because some kid didn't like his High School, and i promise you and Doggie and Mac won't be complaining about this a month from now the way you complain about something some muslim did years ago.

If we applied the standards of today's leftist to the vietnam war, you guys would have told everyone we're racist for noticing that Vietnamese are sadistic torturers and that we should immigrate millions of them per year to atone for the sin of noticing.

Well, actually, we should have taken in a lot more than we did for all the damage we did fighting a war we knew was a mistake to start with... but that's another discussion.

If the islamic hordes were contained to their shithole countries and nuclear weapons didn't exist then calling it an existential threat would be an exaggeration. As it stands however, suicidal leftist policy has pretty much handed all of western europe over to Islam and they want to do the same thing here in the US.

Um, Muslims make up less than 4% of the population of Western Europe. They are hardly in charge.

Joey approves of nutjob islamist countries like Iran having nuclear weapons ...Just ask him...Is that flaming?

Only one country has ever used nukes on people.

People who were already defeated and trying to make peace.

 

[Circe]

Only one country has ever used nukes on people.

People who were already defeated and trying to make peace.

Ha. No, they weren't. The firebombing of Tokyo didn't even faze them. I can't believe you said that: no history agrees with that position. The atom bombs did the job, and nothing else came close.

There is a great deal to be said for winning a war. I wish we would do that now instead of whatever useless nothing we wander about the world involving our troops in without any result, for years and decades at a time, losing.

 

[Kat]

Unfortunately this thread has gotten off topic, and has flaming in it, which is not allowed in the Clean Debate Zone.
Maybe one of you want to start another thread in a different area. This one is closed.