Why doesn't Michigan gov. want cops and firefighters to have the right to work?

[saveliberty]

There were two bills, which may be the source of confusion. One covered public unions and the other private.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

There were two bills, which may be the source of confusion. One covered public unions and the other private.

Dude hook it up.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

There were two bills, which may be the source of confusion. One covered public unions and the other private.

Thanks! I've found the other law.

 

[GHook93]

Why doesn't Michigan gov. want cops and firefighters to have the right to work?
This baffles me.

At long last, most people have a right to work in Michigan now. But not the cops and firefighters. The right to work law exempts cops and firefighters. Why on Earth wouldn't we want our cops and firefighters to have the right to work? That's absurd! The Michigan legislature and governor must truly hate the police and firefighters to want to deny them the right to work! You'd think these folks would be the FIRST you'd want to have the right to work!

Politics! No good reason not to include them!

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

They aren't exempt, that's why the question isn't answered.

You might want to inform the GOP of this.GOP defends right-to-work exclusion of cop, fire unions | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

I've read the bill and don't really care what a person says to the press.

As I have linked to that bill, you surely can show me where in the bill cops are excluded. That's the second time I've asked you to do so. I've also asked another to do the same. I've also posted Michigan's Public Act 312 which governs cops and asked where in THAT act it says cops are excluded.

I'm still waiting.

Here you go ASSHAT

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/publicact/htm/2012-PA-0349.htm

(a) Subsection (3) does not apply to any of the following:

(i) A public police or fire department employee or any person who seeks to become employed as a public police or fire department employee as that term is defined under section 2 of 1969 PA 312, MCL 423.232.

(ii) A state police trooper or sergeant who is granted rights under section 5 of article XI of the state constitution of 1963 or any individual who seeks to become employed as a state police trooper or sergeant

PA 348 (the bills from each house of which you linked to) doesn't not include the state as an "employer"

(f) “Employer” means a person and includes any person acting as an agent of an employer, but does not include the United States or any corporation wholly owned by the United States; any federal reserve bank; any employer subject to the railway labor act, 45 USC 151 to 188; the state or any political subdivision thereof; any labor organization, or anyone acting in the capacity of officer or agent of such labor organization, other than when acting as an employer; or any entity subject to 1947 PA 336, MCL 423.201 to 423.217.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/publicact/htm/2012-PA-0348.htm

So PA 348 does not apply to public employees.

PA 349, passed on the same day, DOES

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/publicact/htm/2012-PA-0349.htm

and restricts state employee unions in the same way that PA 348 restricts private unions with regard to requirement of paying union dues - but the police and firefighters are excluded.


Thanks to saveliberty for helping to clear up the confusion.

 

[saveliberty]

There were two bills, which may be the source of confusion. One covered public unions and the other private.

Thanks! I've found the other law.

You're welcome. Hope it clarifies for everyone. I sort of doubt that, but just a thought.

 

[Si modo]

You might want to inform the GOP of this.GOP defends right-to-work exclusion of cop, fire unions | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

I've read the bill and don't really care what a person says to the press.

As I have linked to that bill, you surely can show me where in the bill cops are excluded. That's the second time I've asked you to do so. I've also asked another to do the same. I've also posted Michigan's Public Act 312 which governs cops and asked where in THAT act it says cops are excluded.

I'm still waiting.

Here you go ASSHAT

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/publicact/htm/2012-PA-0349.htm

(a) Subsection (3) does not apply to any of the following:

(i) A public police or fire department employee or any person who seeks to become employed as a public police or fire department employee as that term is defined under section 2 of 1969 PA 312, MCL 423.232.

(ii) A state police trooper or sergeant who is granted rights under section 5 of article XI of the state constitution of 1963 or any individual who seeks to become employed as a state police trooper or sergeant

PA 348 (the bills from each house of which you linked to) doesn't not include the state as an "employer"

(f) “Employer” means a person and includes any person acting as an agent of an employer, but does not include the United States or any corporation wholly owned by the United States; any federal reserve bank; any employer subject to the railway labor act, 45 USC 151 to 188; the state or any political subdivision thereof; any labor organization, or anyone acting in the capacity of officer or agent of such labor organization, other than when acting as an employer; or any entity subject to 1947 PA 336, MCL 423.201 to 423.217.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/publicact/htm/2012-PA-0348.htm

So PA 348 does not apply to public employees.

PA 349, passed on the same day, DOES

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/publicact/htm/2012-PA-0349.htm

and restricts state employee unions in the same way that PA 348 restricts private unions with regard to requirement of paying union dues - but the police and firefighters are excluded.


Thanks to saveliberty for helping to clear up the confusion.

Well, as I posted before (Michigan Public Act 312 of 1969), the MI legislature has zero power to regulate public employees' conditions of employment. It's in the MI constitution. Only the state's public employee commission can make laws as it relates to those employees. And, they are in the process of addressing that. If they don't, the law states that jurisdiction on such questions will fall on the Michigan Court of Appeals (within a certain timeframe...perhaps 90 days).

 

[Seawytch]

So the OP is right in saying 1st responders don't get the "right to work" like everyone else. How come?

 

[kwc57]

So the OP is right in saying 1st responders don't get the "right to work" like everyone else. How come?

Answered multiple times. Don't you and poopoo have other threads to troll now. The cute has worn off of this one.

 

[saveliberty]

So the OP is right in saying 1st responders don't get the "right to work" like everyone else. How come?

Actually volunteer firefighters don't have to be in a union. Sort of clouds the issue.

 

[Seawytch]

So the OP is right in saying 1st responders don't get the "right to work" like everyone else. How come?

Answered multiple times. Don't you and poopoo have other threads to troll now. The cute has worn off of this one.

No, it hasn't been answered. WI did the same thing, exempted police and fire unions.

Why? If these laws are soooo wonderful, why are these unions exempt?

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

So the OP is right in saying 1st responders don't get the "right to work" like everyone else. How come?

Actually volunteer firefighters don't have to be in a union. Sort of clouds the issue.

volunteer fire fighters also arent paid for their services hence there is no need for a contract detailing wages and benefits.

 

[saveliberty]

So the OP is right in saying 1st responders don't get the "right to work" like everyone else. How come?

Actually volunteer firefighters don't have to be in a union. Sort of clouds the issue.

volunteer fire fighters also arent paid for their services hence there is no need for a contract detailing wages and benefits.

They get paid where I live. Its a per run fee and it is by contract. Caught lying twice today already.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

Actually volunteer firefighters don't have to be in a union. Sort of clouds the issue.

volunteer fire fighters also arent paid for their services hence there is no need for a contract detailing wages and benefits.

They get paid where I live. Its a per run fee and it is by contract. Caught lying twice today already.

if they get paid, then by definition they are not volunteers. try again

Volunteer - A person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task.

wow, i figured even a retard would understand what a volunteer is, but then again thats giving you too much credit.

 

[saveliberty]

volunteer fire fighters also arent paid for their services hence there is no need for a contract detailing wages and benefits.

They get paid where I live. Its a per run fee and it is by contract. Caught lying twice today already.

if they get paid, then by definition they are not volunteers. try again

Volunteer - A person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task.

wow, i figured even a retard would understand what a volunteer is, but then again thats giving you too much credit.

No skin off my nose that you don't know how most volunteer fire departments operate moron.

 

[saveliberty]

Some cities, and many rural areas, depend on volunteer firefighters to be emergency responders. These people do not receive a salary, but some are paid based on how often they work. If there are no fires then they do not work and don't get paid. The amount received can vary greatly depending on where the volunteer is located as it is at the discretion of the department how much to pay the firefighter but typically it is not more than 20 percent of what a public agency would pay for a full-time firefighter. All money made by being a volunteer firefighter is tax free.



Read more: The Average Salaries of Firefighters | eHow.com The Average Salaries of Firefighters | eHow.com

 

[gwennie]

Why doesn't Michigan gov. want cops and firefighters to have the right to work?
This baffles me.

At long last, most people have a right to work in Michigan now. But not the cops and firefighters. The right to work law exempts cops and firefighters. Why on Earth wouldn't we want our cops and firefighters to have the right to work? That's absurd! The Michigan legislature and governor must truly hate the police and firefighters to want to deny them the right to work! You'd think these folks would be the FIRST you'd want to have the right to work!

My god.....you don't have the good sense that god gave a lemon.

 

[LeftCoastVoter]

Some cities, and many rural areas, depend on volunteer firefighters to be emergency responders. These people do not receive a salary, but some are paid based on how often they work. If there are no fires then they do not work and don't get paid. The amount received can vary greatly depending on where the volunteer is located as it is at the discretion of the department how much to pay the firefighter but typically it is not more than 20 percent of what a public agency would pay for a full-time firefighter. All money made by being a volunteer firefighter is tax free.



Read more: The Average Salaries of Firefighters | eHow.com The Average Salaries of Firefighters | eHow.com

again by definition they would not be considered volunteers, they would be considered independent contractors.

the term is poorly used, but as youve shown before your feeble mind is unable to comprehend these difficult matters.

 

[saveliberty]

Some cities, and many rural areas, depend on volunteer firefighters to be emergency responders. These people do not receive a salary, but some are paid based on how often they work. If there are no fires then they do not work and don't get paid. The amount received can vary greatly depending on where the volunteer is located as it is at the discretion of the department how much to pay the firefighter but typically it is not more than 20 percent of what a public agency would pay for a full-time firefighter. All money made by being a volunteer firefighter is tax free.



Read more: The Average Salaries of Firefighters | eHow.com The Average Salaries of Firefighters | eHow.com

again by definition they would not be considered volunteers, they would be considered independent contractors.

the term is poorly used, but as youve shown before your feeble mind is unable to comprehend these difficult matters.

You have no idea of the subject. All across America they are referred to as volunteer fire fighters. You were caught in a lie once again. Of course, you tripped over yourself by terming them independent contractors. Thought you siad they didn't have contract? A true lying moron.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Referring to someone who works as a paid, part-time firefighter as a volunteer does not make it so...it just makes you look stupid. Yet again: if they are paid for their services, then they are, by definition, not, repeat NOT, repeat NOT volunteers! This is NOT complicated!