Why does Palestine have a right to exist?

[toomuchtime_]

Excellent solution.

First thing Israel must do for that to happen is for their court system to recognize the rightful claims of the millions of Palestinians who OWNED the properties that the State of Israel took from them.

Notice now, I do NOT say the whole nation, just those pieces of land and homes where the Palestinians actually OWNED.

Describing this problem in the most simplictic way possible, much of the creation of Isreal (not all of it, mind you) was nothing more than REAL ESTATE THEFT.

Now before you tell me thse people did not have legal title, know that I know they did and I ALSO KNOW, (perhaps you do not) that the STATE OF ISRAEL refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of their titles even those the BRITISH mandate government recognised them as completely legitmate for the thirty years that THEY controlled those properties.

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In fact, Israel has always recognized the legitimacy of Ottoman deeds and British deeds, and during the Mandate period, the British courts determined, according to the British reports to the League of Nations, that about 80% of the Arab claims of land theft by Jews were false and most of the others were simple contract disputes that were easily adjusted.

Under ordinary circumstances, British and Ottoman deeds are recognized and honored by Israeli courts, however, there are two situations in which they might not be. The first concerns those who left Israel during the 1948-1949 war. Since most Arabs did not leave during the war, there is a general presumption that those who did did so to make common cause with the enemy and are therefore traitors to the new state of Israel, although those people may think of what they did as acts of loyalty to a higher cause, and all nations reserve the right to punish traitors and confiscation of property is not an especially unusual or harsh punishment for this offense In fact, those Arabs who left Israel during the war and who could document their claim that they did not support the enemy in any way and who presented valid deeds, did get their property back or compensation for it, but these have been very few in number.

The second situation involves the right of eminent domain which all nations claim. When Israel exercises this right in the disputed territories Israeli courts have held that anyone who holds a valid deed, including Ottoman deeds or British deeds, must be given a chance to protest the state's right to take the property and must be offered fair market compensation for it if the court decides the state has an overriding need for that property. Whenever a state exercises the right of eminent domain, whether it be in Chicago or Philadelphia or London or Paris or the West Bank, there are some aggrieved parties who think they have been treated unfairly, and that is probably true in some cases, but the issue in the West Bank is not about deeds or the fairness of Israeli courts but about the fact that most Palestinians do not recognize the jurisdiction of Israel in the West Bank.

 

[jillian]

Excellent solution.

First thing Isreal must do for that to happen is for their court system to recognize the rightful claims of the millions of Palestinians who OWNED the properties that the State of Israel took from them.

The State of Israel did not TAKE their land. They left after the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem told them to.

Lots of people re-settle. Does that mean I get my great grandparents' and grandparents' property in Belarus? Cool....

Notice now, I do NOT say the whole nation, just those pieces of land and homes where the Palestinians actually OWNED.

They didn't. "Palestine" was the name give to Israel by the British during the mandate. They then had the right to divide that mandate as they chose...as was done in every other similar case after WWII. That's what happens when people back the wrong horse. Even then, the Arab population could have shared the land. They chose not to. They then attacked Israel. Sucked for them that they lost.

Do tell me what other country had to give land back after winning it in defensive battle. Israel has bent over backwards for them....... they gave them everything they wanted at Oslo. Arafat wallked away from the table.

Then they elected a terrorist group to represent them. And you think Israel should win their "hearts and minds". lol... too funny. Nice thought, but not rationally related to the facts at hand.

Describing this problem in the most simplictic way possible, much of the creation of Isreal (not all of it, mind you) was nothing more than REAL ESTATE THEFT.

Really? Are we giving Cali and Texas back to Mexico? Everything else back to the native americans?

Oh right... only Jews are supposed to do that.... which could explain why people get confused between anti-Israel propaganda and anti-semitism.

Now before you tell me thse people did not have legal title, know that I know they did and I ALSO KNOW, (perhaps you do not) that the STATE OF ISRAEL refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of their titles even those the BRITISH mandate government recognised them as completely legitmate for the thirty years that THEY controlled those properties.

Actually they didn't "control" those properties... they were practically bedouin. In any event, like I said, even if they did... I want my land in Belarus? Where are the fifty threads over the past week demanding that I get it?

 

[Shogun]

The State of Israel did not TAKE their land.


ya, jill.. just like the trail of fucking tears makes it true that colonial manifest destiny didn't TAKE NATIVE AMERICAN LAND. For real.. the length you people will go to act like anything other than the racist tyrants you are..

 

[DavidS]

The State of Israel did not TAKE their land.


ya, jill.. just like the trail of fucking tears makes it true that colonial manifest destiny didn't TAKE NATIVE AMERICAN LAND. For real.. the length you people will go to act like anything other than the racist tyrants you are..

Was there a Native American religious chief who spoke for all of the Native Americans and told them to give up land? I don't think so. The Europeans took this land by force. Right or wrong, it's impossible to answer. But civilizations for hundreds of thousands of years have been taking land by force - Israel included. The only difference is, if you're Jewish, Christian or Muslim, you believe God commanded Abraham to do so.

 

[Agnapostate]

...and essentially all recent conquestors have been Jewish, Christian, or Muslim.

 

[Shogun]

Was there a Native American religious chief who spoke for all of the Native Americans and told them to give up land? I don't think so. The Europeans took this land by force. Right or wrong, it's impossible to answer. But civilizations for hundreds of thousands of years have been taking land by force - Israel included. The only difference is, if you're Jewish, Christian or Muslim, you believe God commanded Abraham to do so.

Actually, stupid, LOTS of eurpeans were busy trading land and gold for trinkets and baubles. If you had any grasp on anything non-jewish you'd have known that. Yes, and JEWS took the land by force. of COURSE your zionist ass refuses to give an answer if it blemishes your rationalized state racism. So, when you finally piss off muslims enough to find your ass floating in the sea make sure you remember the legitimacy of land taken away by force, zionist.

 

[DavidS]

Actually, stupid, LOTS of eurpeans were busy trading land and gold for trinkets and baubles. If you had any grasp on anything non-jewish you'd have known that. Yes, and JEWS took the land by force. of COURSE your zionist ass refuses to give an answer if it blemishes your rationalized state racism. So, when you finally piss off muslims enough to find your ass floating in the sea make sure you remember the legitimacy of land taken away by force, zionist.

you're so laughable with your pesudo anger it's hilarious.

Name one fucking country that hasn't been created by force. America was, Spain was, France was, Germany sure as hell was.... where is your indignity for their countries being created by force you piss ant? You don't have any because you're a Jew hater, just like Sunni Man. Go join your fuck friends in Gaza and launch some rockets at Israel... I can't wait to see what happens to your ass.

 

[Modbert]

you're so laughable with your pesudo anger it's hilarious.

Name one fucking country that hasn't been created by force. America was, Spain was, France was, Germany sure as hell was.... where is your indignity for their countries being created by force you piss ant? You don't have any because you're a Jew hater, just like Sunni Man. Go join your fuck friends in Gaza and launch some rockets at Israel... I can't wait to see what happens to your ass.

Shouldn't be getting ready to go blow yourself in the name of the children of Israel or something?

 

[Shogun]

you're so laughable with your pesudo anger it's hilarious.

Name one fucking country that hasn't been created by force. America was, Spain was, France was, Germany sure as hell was.... where is your indignity for their countries being created by force you piss ant? You don't have any because you're a Jew hater, just like Sunni Man. Go join your fuck friends in Gaza and launch some rockets at Israel... I can't wait to see what happens to your ass.

likewise, motherfucker. The difference being that no one is hiding behind the pant leg of israel.


But, hey, don't let that keep you from prelying with the typical Scarlet A.. lord fucking knows it takes binoculars at 500 feet to have seen THAT coming.

and, trust me... the longer this goes on the less chance you have of retaining your racist nation. Lord fucking knows jews sure do have a long history of military success!




now go take your ass tot he front lines, jew boy.. there is some justice waiting for you.

 

[Godboy]

Shouldn't be getting ready to go blow yourself in the name of the children of Israel or something?

Jews arent known for blowing themselves up. Your post doesnt make sense to me.

 

[del]

Jews arent known for blowing themselves up. Your post doesnt make sense to me.

no one cares

 

[Modbert]

Jews arent known for blowing themselves up. Your post doesnt make sense to me.

Go read David's original post in the animal thread. He sounded like he all ready to die for the "children of Israel". That and some piece of sand that nobody has a right to.

 

[Tuatara]

Go join your fuck friends in Gaza and launch some rockets at Israel... I can't wait to see what happens to your ass.

I thought Israel and those who support them didn't want the rockets to be fired at them. It sounds like your provoking him into doing it. Wouldn't not lifting the blockade into Gaza be provoking others too?


Letter to Olmert: Stop the Blockade of Gaza

Your government states that this latest blockade was in response to Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, in which two Israel civilians were injured (on November 14 and 16), and over a dozen others treated for shock. Human Rights Watch has repeatedly condemned deliberate and indiscriminate Palestinian rocket attacks on Israeli communities as violations of the laws of war. We recently sent a letter to Hamas leaders calling on them to renounce such attacks, and arrest and prosecute those who carry out or encourage attacks on civilians.

However, violations of the laws of war by one party to a conflict do not justify violations by the other. As such, illegal attacks by Palestinian armed groups do not justify an illegal Israeli response. Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip, an occupied territory under the Fourth Geneva Convention, constitutes collective punishment in violation of the laws of war.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/11/20/letter-olmert-stop-blockade-gaza

 

[Modbert]

I thought Israel and those who support them didn't want the rockets to be fired at them. It sounds like your provoking him into doing it. Wouldn't not lifting the blockade into Gaza be provoking others too?

It's because david doesn't really care at this point who Israel kills. As long as Israel's okay then everything is fine in his book.

People like David give real peaceful Jews a bad name. And probably is one of the reasons why some people assume Jews are trying to take over the world.

 

[Shogun]

I thought Israel and those who support them didn't want the rockets to be fired at them. It sounds like your provoking him into doing it. Wouldn't not lifting the blockade into Gaza be provoking others too?

exactly. zionists like DavidS WANT the excuse to kill of palis. don't kid yourself; he's no less violently included as he'd have you believe every muslims child is born.

 

[Truthmatters]

The biggest joke in the world and the egg's on YOUR face.

There is no such thing as "Palestine." There is no such thing as a Palestinian.


I have, for weeks now, been asking people the following questions:

• Name one leader of this mythical "Palestine" - who was its president, prime minister or king?
• Name one nation that had diplomatic relations with "Palestine."
• What was the currency of "Palestine?"
• When did this Palestine exist as its own separate entity instead of being a part of another government? When did it have a centralized government and its own people?

Before Israel was re-named Palestine, which is Greek for Philistina, which was a country that occupied the Gaza Strip, the area known as Palestine was called Israel. Before that, Caananites lived there. They were wiped out and no longer exist.

History, DNA tests, and pure logic show absolutely NO link between the Arabs who live in Gaza and the West Bank now, and the Philistines who lived there then. Philistines are NOT Arab. Arabs are NOT Philistines.
In fact, the Arabs themselves always denied that "Palestine" or "Palestinians" exist.


"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not," Dr. Philip Hitti, an Arab historian representing the Muslim world, told the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry in 1946.

In Israel's 1948 War of Independence, when the entire Arab world attacked the tiny Jewish State promising to "push the Jews into the sea," all of the Arab states told the United Nations that the Land of Israel was part of southern Syria.

In the 1948 war, Egypt invaded and occupied the Gaza District, and Jordan invaded and occupied Judea, Samaria and eastern Jerusalem.
Israel's former "peace partner," the "statesman" Yasser Arafat - The Arab Hitler is shown in his younger days pointing to the barrel of a rifle and promising that only it will provide "peace" with the Jews

Thus, all of Yesha was controlled by Egypt and Jordan from 1948 to 1967. The Arabs could easily have created a "Palestinian" state in Yesha.
But from 1948 to 1967, no one called for the creation of a "Palestinian" state. No one even suggested that a separate "Palestinian" people exist in Yesha.


Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.
All Things Beautiful: The Myth Of Palestine

File:Israel Byzantine 5c.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DavidS]

I ask this as non-confrontational as I can since no one answered this in the other thread.

Why do you feel Palestine has the right to exist? Palestine, literally means Land of Phillistines. Phillistines were Mediterianin -- not Arab.

This is not an opinion. This is a fact. The Arabs did have claim to the land known as Israel/Palestine about 1400 years ago when they kicked out the Eastern Roman Empire. Under the Islamic Empire rule, the Jews were allowed back in Israel and the Covenant of Omar was created as a constitution of sorts giving rights for Christians and Jews to return to Israel and pray. Under Islamic Empire rule, the Jews entered into what we call the golden age. Unfortunately, this age didn't last long as they were kicked out about 900 years ago by the Crusaders. That was the last time Arabs were allowed to "rule over" Palestine. Even under Islamic Imperial rule, Palestine was given no official borders, no centralized government, nothing that would constitute its own sovreignty.

And, why do the Arabs need yet another country? What's wrong with the ones they have?

The Arab world (Arabic: العالم العربي; Transliteration: al-`alam al-`arabi) is a term to define all of the Arabic-speaking countries stretching from the Atlantic Ocean in the west to the Arabian Sea in the east, and from the Mediterranean Sea in the north to the Horn of Africa and the Indian Ocean in the southeast. It consists of about 20 countries and territories with a combined population of some 325 million people spanning two continents.

1: Kuwait (Kuwait)
2: Iraq (Bagdad)
3: Kingdom of Sudia Arabia (Riyadh)
4: Bahrain (Manama)
5: Qatar (Doha)
6: United Arab Emirates (Abu Dhabi)
7: Oman (Mascut)
8: Yemen (Sana'a)
9: Jordan (Amman)
10: Lebanon (Beirut)
11: Syria (Damascus)
12: Egypt (Cairo)
13: Sudan (Khartum)
14: Djuboti (Djuboti)
15: Libya (Tripoli)
16: Tunisia (Tunis)
17: Algeria (Alger)
18: Morocco (Rabat)
19: Muritaniya (Nowakshot)
20: Comoros (Moroni)

 

[jillian]

The interesting question is why none of those places are called "apartheid states" even though I'm not allowed to set foot in many of them and jews were either oppressed or expelled.


Only the Jewish state offends them, even though many of those countries were established the same way --- by dividing up british and french mandates.

But there's no double standard for Jews.

 

[BlackAsCoal]

Is it OK if I ask as non-confrontational as possible why does Israel have the right to exist?

After all, it's a creation of British zionists colonialists who have never had any claim, right, or title to the land.

Israel is an artificial creation that is populated by european jews who also never had any claim, right, or title to the land.

Here's what's missing in your argument ...

Foreign Office,
November 2nd, 1917.

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely
Arthur James Balfour

Surely this answers your question and demonstrates that Israel is an artificial nation created by colonialist declaration, not history.

It's interesting indeed that Jews would be asking this question when they will scream to high heaven if someone asks why Israel has a right to exist.

 

[jillian]

And? Is there a point? If I can direct your attention to my link on Transjordan, you will find that many countries in the middle east, including Iraq, were artificial creations. Countries usually are when they are carved up by the victors in wartime. The Arabs backed the wrong horse in WWI and II.

But only Israel annoys you.

Ask yourself why that would be.