Why does Palestine have a right to exist?

[Shogun]

You're so angry and so passionate about a fight you don't have a dog in. Are you done discussing your adversion to pedophiles yet and now you've come here?

The IRA and Arab-Israeli violence are about the same age. Actually, Arab-Israeli violence pre-dates the IRA as there was some sporadic violence in the mid-late 1800s.

oh, as an American whose nation you would use like a tampon to stop your jewish pussy from bleeding, I have a very REAL dog in this race. I realize that you don't like it when non-jews tell jews that they cannot, in fact, treat others like they cried about being treated but do try to at least keep your historic facts strait. You can start by removing your zionist filter, jew.

and no, this conflict is only JUST begun in relation to other epic fucking population struggles. Enjoy your dwindling support, dude. Try not to bruise your vocal chords screaming antisemite as the world comes to realize that your hebrewness doesn't make you impervious to racist actions for the sake of a racist state.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I have NEVER made a post calling the Jews animals or any other such name.

And I have NEVER called for the death or extermination of the Jews.

But DavidS said those sick and racist things about Palestanians/Arabs/ Muslims many, many times!!

really? If this is true I owe you an apology.

 

[Care4all]

What I don't understand is why these other Arab nations, that actually are related to these people that once lived in the palestine region, haven't melded the palestinian refuges in to their own society, as we Americans would have done?

Socio-Economic Conditions of Palestinian Refugees in Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon

Andrzej Bolesta
affiliation not provided to SSRN


December 2002

TIGER Working Paper Series No. 35

Abstract:
The socio-economic conditions of Palestinians in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon depend on various political and economic premises as well as on the ‘imaginary ethnic environment’ in each country. In Lebanon Palestinian refugees seem to be the worst affected. Being constantly denied any rights they are forced to struggle for life. International assistance is insufficient, and although effort is put into securing refugees’ basic needs it does not change in a significant way their standard of living. In Syria, Palestinians enjoy almost the same rights, or rather their lack, as Syrian nationals. However, the conditions of the refugee camps do not seem to vary from those in Lebanon or Jordan. In the Hashemite Kingdom most of the Palestinians are granted Jordanian citizenship, but the economic crisis and widespread poverty do not allow the full enjoyment of all the rights. Palestinians seem to be sharing the effects of poverty along with Syrians and Jordanians, and are relegated to the ‘third category’ citizens in Lebanon. Only few of them, mainly representing middle and upper class, managed to assimilate themselves into the host countries’ societies and can afford life on a decent standard comparable to the one they had before being forced to migrate. The misery of Palestinians in the region can be seen as an effect of discriminating legal norms, economic crises, political unrest and a low level of development in the host countries.SSRN-Socio-Economic Conditions of Palestinian Refugees in Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon by Andrzej Bolesta

And we wonder why the Israeli don't meld them in to their society, while the palestinians own relatives, 60 years after they escaped and went to these countries of syria, jordan, lebanon, that these countries treat them as second or thrid class people?

Is this intentional? To keep other palestinians from going there? Do they hate their own blood brothers? Or do they WANT for this mess in the palestine region to continue, until they can blow israel off of the planet?

Lebanon

In northern Lebanon refugees are caught in the crossfire between the Lebanese army and extremist groups," he said.

Lebanon hosts over 400,000 refugees and the fighting in Nahr al-Bared camp has had an impact on many Palestinians. Some 30,000 have fled the camp in the past month.

"There is extreme overcrowding in the camps the refugees have fled to," al-Turk added, noting that the Bedawi camp now hosted twice as many people as it did before.

Palestinians in Lebanon face a particularly difficult situation, as local law places extreme limitations on their employment opportunities, basically preventing most refugees from working in the camps, aid workers said.

Syria

In Syria, where some 460,000 Palestinian refugees reside, the conditions are better, many Palestinians said.

"Syria is an example for other host countries. Here there is no discrimination, we get the same treatment. We are on an equal footing with the Syrians with regard to employment, health and education," a Palestinian refugee told IRIN in Damascus.

Jordan

Jordan hosts about 1.8 million Palestinian refugees including some 130,000 people who fled from Gaza in 1967. These refugees, as opposed to most Palestinians in Jordan, are not citizens, and therefore face restrictions on access to higher education and jobs.

"They are deprived of their basic rights. They have a very difficult time working in the private and public sectors, and mostly tend to work as unskilled labourers," says Oroub el-Abed, who has done extensive research on the refugees.

Egypt

There are about 50,000 Palestinian refugees in Egypt who are not registered with UNRWA. They cannot attend public schools and are not allowed to work.

"They are treated as foreigners," Abed said. "Many reside in Egypt illegally, without any rights." IRIN Middle East | Middle East | Egypt Iraq Jordan Lebanon OPT Syria | MIDDLE EAST: Plight of Palestinian refugees worsening in most parts of Middle East | Human Rights Conflict Refugees/IDPs | Feature

Maybe keeping the warring over there in israel/gaza etc in place prevents others from looking at their own BAD DEEDS of how they treat palestinians as dirt?

there are hundreds of thousands of arab citizens in Israel that have full rights of the other israeli...including representation in their 'parliament'.

23.6% of the people living in the defined israel, in 2004 are mostly arabs... 76.4% are Jewish from various parts of the world...according to the CIA FACT BOOK....

These people are succeeding within Israel, why can't the others?

I just do not understand what is really going on here....with these other arab countries or the citizens within,, funding Hamas etc, to keep the warring going when they themselves treat the Palestinian refuges like mere CRAP?

Care

 

[Shogun]

My username is DavidS. My name is David. Feel free to call me by those names. You're trying to use the word "Jew" as an insult, when you are merely pointing out that I am a Jew, which is not an insult. You should brush up on your anti-semitism, Shogun. Maybe Sunni can help you in that department.

thats ok, jew. I'll go ahead and treat you like the vile beast you attribute to non-jews for the sake of a racist state. Indeed, YOU are the kind of person that makes the word JEW and insult. Trust me when I say that calling you a jew, in relation to your rabid fucking kill muslim posts, is an insult. Maybe you can give out more lectures about racial hatred after calling for another population of people to be killed off for the sake of your ironic racism.


dont forget whose pantleg you hve to hide behind, lil jewish boy.

 

[Shogun]

I think Israel should be placed in the US. What state should they take over?

I've made that same suggestion many times over. Say, how do you think Texans would react to having their homes confiscated for the sake of zionism? Do you think any texans would be busy reacting violently to a perceived jewish invasion?

 

[Care4all]

Remember, there were no countries called Saudi Arabia, or Iran or Iraq etc....these were ALL made up countries by the UN or the League of Nations as with Israel....

 

[Shogun]

Remember, there were no countries called Saudi Arabia, or Iran or Iraq etc....these were ALL made up countries by the UN or the League of Nations as with Israel....

does that invalidate the people living on the land? for christs sake why don't we demand a fucking 26 letter alphabet and SHOES in order to quality TOO!


lord knows a fucking ironic zionist jew can fathom as much.

 

[Sunni Man]

Remember, there were no countries called Saudi Arabia, or Iran or Iraq etc....these were ALL made up countries by the UN or the League of Nations as with Israel....

True, but unlike Israel. The people had been there for generations.

 

[Care4all]

does that invalidate the people living on the land? for christs sake why don't we demand a fucking 26 letter alphabet and SHOES in order to quality TOO!


lord knows a fucking ironic zionist jew can fathom as much.

You either have a LONG 100 yr life ahead of you because you let all your anger out and it doesn't fester and rot, or you are going to die of a heart attack young...because of this anger....? I dunno? I am hoping for the former with you and this is just what i am seeing...
-------------------------------------------------

In my opinion, NOTHING justifies the dehumanization or the killing of innocent human beings...

I am not giving Israel a "free pass" on all of their actions over the years, some are justified and many are not, imho....and from what I know about it...

My point is towards those that speak of "israel" just being a made up country, well duhhhhh, most all of the middle east is just made up countries that never existed and were cut up via political favor towards one bloodline or another.

(Why do you think the Iranians or Iraqi want to take over the others country and the warring between them?)

And also, that these arab brothers and sisters of the refuge people from the palestine region who ended up in their countries are treated like crapola by these Arab brothers and sisters and I was wondering why there is never any focus on this or why someone would not think that maybe this is a part of their "entire plan", keeping them as indigents?

Care

 

[DavidS]

True, but unlike Israel. The people had been there for generations.

So, according to what you're saying, almost no one lived in Israel for generations before the League of Nations mandate?

This contradicts what you said earlier about there being people in Israel for generations and those people were Palestinians.

You also, still have not answered any of my questions? When has Palestine ever existed as a centralized, self governing country? Who were its leaders? What was its currency? What was the official language?

It's fascinating how you'd rather insult me than answer the question.

 

[Shogun]

why should ANY people who have been kicked tot he fucking curb have to integrate with another nation? Is it because they look similar? I'll ask you, how do YOU think fucking TEXAS would react to being carved up for the sake of a jewish zion? Answer honestly and be descriptive with how you fathom TEXANS reacting if treated like palis.


and, if I may pass off a nerdly reference, my lightsaber would most certainly be red.

 

[Sunni Man]

So, according to what you're saying, almost no one lived in Israel for generations before the League of Nations mandate?

This contradicts what you said earlier about there being people in Israel for generations and those people were Palestinians.

Are you really that dense. I never said anything close to what you are saying.

 

[Shogun]

So, according to what you're saying, almost no one lived in Israel for generations before the League of Nations mandate?
his contradicts what you said earlier about there being people in Israel for generations and those people were Palestinians.
You also, still have not answered any of my questions? When has Palestine ever existed as a centralized, self governing country? Who were its leaders? What was its currency? What was the official language?
It's fascinating how you'd rather insult me than answer the question.

Oh PEOPLE lived there, dude.. Even if your auto-zionism demands that you disregard these people as cockroach fodde similar to the ORIGINAL CANAANITES.

WHY the fuck did natives never wear shoes and use paper currency like Euros? Who cares. It doesn't invalidate their presence, jew boy. Hell, you wouldn't recognize their leaders if they wore a fucking neon light halo around their head, boy. We all know this since it would interrupt your hebrew wet dream. Please, cry about insults some more after calling for the deaths of another human population, you worthless zionist bastard. You, sir, are not going to enjoy the 21st century.

 

[DavidS]

Remember, there were no countries called Saudi Arabia, or Iran or Iraq etc....these were ALL made up countries by the UN or the League of Nations as with Israel....

Incorrect, actually. Saudi Arabia was Arabia which was part of the Great Islamic Empire from around 638–1099. They conquered the Eastern Roman (or Byzantine) Empire.

Iran was named Persia and Persia has thousands and thousands of years of history to it, including a war with the Byzantine Empire over Jersualem in the mid 600s. Neither side, I'm afraid, was very kind to the Jews back then.

Iraq, though, is just yet another Arab country. One of the many, unfortunately.

 

[DavidS]

Oh PEOPLE lived there, dude.. Even if your auto-zionism demands that you disregard these people as cockroach fodde similar to the ORIGINAL CANAANITES.

WHY the fuck did natives never wear shoes and use paper currency like Euros? Who cares. It doesn't invalidate their presence, jew boy. Hell, you wouldn't recognize their leaders if they wore a fucking neon light halo around their head, boy. We all know this since it would interrupt your hebrew wet dream. Please, cry about insults some more after calling for the deaths of another human population, you worthless zionist bastard. You, sir, are not going to enjoy the 21st century.

I've reported you to the moderators for your language and I will keep doing so until you either tone it down or you're banned.

 

[del]

Let the record reflect that I have given Sunni Man 4 chances now to answer my inquiries about the history of Palestine and he has refused to do so. By this, he is admitting, there is NO history of Palestine and there is NO such thing as a Palestinian.

your questions re:history of palestine/palestinians have been answered at least 3 different times that i'm aware of. that you choose to deny this just shows how deeply your intellectual dishonesty runs.

 

[Sunni Man]

I've reported you to the moderators for your language and I will keep doing so until you either tone it down or you're banned.

What a total limp wristed wimp you are DavidS

Your always crying about getting someone banned.

Especially when your faggot zionist ass is getting kicked in a debate!!

 

[Shogun]

I've reported you to the moderators for your language and I will keep doing so until you either tone it down or you're banned.

I'm sure the joke will not be lost on them given which one of us is the only user to actualy post a thread calling for the deaths of an entire population of people, jew boy.


whatsa matter, little zionist? Don't like it when you feel hated on? Imagine how Palis feel. oooops, silly me.. you don't think they are human enough to have that common human element. Hey, maybe you should shoot an email to AIPAC too, eh? Lord knows, if you don't have justice, democracy or historic fact by your side then build a wall around it and look for a reason to kill it, right jew boy?

 

[DavidS]

your questions re:history of palestine/palestinians have been answered at least 3 different times that i'm aware of. that you choose to deny this just shows how deeply your intellectual dishonesty runs.

His answers were "The people living in Palestine were Palestinians and have lived there for many many generations." Then he said: "Unlike Israel, the people had been there for generations." referring to Iraq, Iran and Arabia. Contradict himself much?

Even so, that doesn't answer my question. My question was "What is a Palestinian?" You can't just live someplace and all of a sudden the entire country belongs to you.

There must be leadership, a government, an official language, an official currency. If Palestine, since the Roman Empire re-named Israel, has only existed as extensions of other governments and never existed as its own government, then Palestine never existed as a separate, individual country as the Arabs who are living there now claim to make it out to be.

However, if, and this is the information I'm trying to get out of Sunni, Palestine DID exist for even hundreds of years under its own self rule, had its own official language, its own official people.. then THOSE are the people who belong there. The only time, in the past 4,000 years, that area of land has ever done that, was under the Kingdom of Eretz Yisrael and the new nation-state of Israel. Both times the people were of Jewish origins and descent, the official language was Hebrew, the currency before and now is Shekel and Israel has had several kings before the Romans conquered it and has had several Prime Ministers after the creation of the nation-state of Israel.

I cannot just hop onto an island and declare the island a country. There are international standards and definitions as to what defines a country. And being a sattelite province of an empire is NOT one of them.

 

[Care4all]

Incorrect, actually. Saudi Arabia was Arabia which was part of the Great Islamic Empire from around 638–1099. They conquered the Eastern Roman (or Byzantine) Empire.

Iran was named Persia and Persia has thousands and thousands of years of history to it, including a war with the Byzantine Empire over Jersualem in the mid 600s. Neither side, I'm afraid, was very kind to the Jews back then.

Iraq, though, is just yet another Arab country. One of the many, unfortunately.

yes, but not the borders they were given with their new country of Saudi Arabia....

Of course ALL of those people lived there, but wheeling and dealing was done by the British/french? on who got to be the ruling kings and what territory we were going to give them for their reign....