Why does it matter if Homosexuality is a choice or not?

As you said, the businesses that don't want customers are almost non-existent, so there should be no problem with requiring that businesses serve the public. After all, it's in their best interest to so.

No, businesses do not serve "the public," we serve OUR customers. Our customers are people who pay us, don't abuse our staff, dress appropriately when they enter our business, fit our business model, are profitable, etc. If you enter my business, my staff will decide if you fit our customer base.

As for your standard there should be "no problem with requiring" businesses to serve the public (who we don't serve), let's pass a law by your reasoning requiring flushing the toilet, your standard is "so there should be no problem with requiring" us to do so. Most people do flush the toilet, what's the harm? Actually, there are three problems with it:

1) It's not a legitimate power of government. No one has the right to require legally toilets be flushed just like no one has the right to force someone to build them a cake. Positive rights are an oxymoron, you have no right to compel anyone to do things for you, you only have the right to compel them to not do things to you that you don't want them to do.

2) Frivolous lawsuits. A jackass gets into a party at your house, you kick him out. The next day you get a lawsuit, you didn't flush your toilet. That's why he left your party.

3) General enforcement. Well now, the government wants to make sure you flush your toilet, it's the law, they are just enforcing the law. So now there are more laws to verify you flush your toilet and flushing the toilet is access to your home which then is access to all sorts of other things they want to verify and monitor

And a law requiring flushing the toilet is absolutely as ridiculous as a law requiring anyone to bake a cake. Here's a far easier solution in the incredibly unlikely event that happens. Walk across the street to their competitor...
You are completely within your rights to deny service to anyone that abuses your staff or does not follow your dress code. You are also within your rights to reject any customer that does not meet your business model as long as that model does not violate anti-discrimination laws. However, when you start making assumptions about customers based on their apperance, you are on danger grounds both legally and socially.

Your statement that no one has the right to compel you to do things for others is absolutely absurd. The government certainly has the right to compel you to report your income and that of your employees for tax purposes, take steps need to meet health codes, zoning codes, building codes and other local ordinances plus a wide array of state and federal laws that require that you do things for the benefit of customers, employees and the community.

What you seem to advocate is a nation in which you are free to do anything you choose. That type of society began dying thousands of years ago. There are places on earth that come pretty close to what you desire, however I don't think you would want to live there. In our society we are all very dependent on others. That means laws and regulation and lots of them. The more dependent we become on others the more regulations there will be.
The whole problem is that we are dependent on each other. Liberals cant wipe their own ass unless someone else is there to help them.
the solution to our societies problems is to depend on ourselves and not each other.
as far as not dealing with gays, if it is a religious reason then its legal. Religion was protected long before gays were.
 
You are completely within your rights to deny service to anyone that abuses your staff or does not follow your dress code. You are also within your rights to reject any customer that does not meet your business model as long as that model does not violate anti-discrimination laws. However, when you start making assumptions about customers based on their apperance, you are on danger grounds both legally and socially.

Who I do business with is up to me, fuck off. It's none of your business. Again, that is why you are an authoritarian leftist. I am a liberal, a true liberal. A true liberal when denied service walks across the street and gives their business to their competitor. An authoritarian leftist runs to the government, wah, make them!

A funny thing on the appearance thing. We had a young man walking back and forth up and down the street in front of our business. He had his pants down his ass as is popular. I wasn't in the office when it happened, but my staff felt uncomfortable like he was casing us and called the cops. They came but he was gone by then. A few days later he walked in. We do graphic design and promotional/marketing. Turns out he's a rapper and he bought a bunch of crap from us. He asked if we take cash, LOL, and pre-paid for everything. He was apparently a nice kid. No idea why he was walking back in forth down the street prior to that, I guess they didn't want to ask him.

I do business with anyone other than the thing about how they treat my staff and that sort of thing. We have a $5 minimum to drive off the B2C market we don't want rather than telling them no. We do business with conservative churches as well as Democrat candidates and Planned Parenthood. I am a complete color bigot, I only do business with one. Green. I totally advocate my competitors discriminating, more work for us!

It's still our choice, not yours, Stalin. Fuck off

Your statement that no one has the right to compel you to do things for others is absolutely absurd. The government certainly has the right to compel you to report your income and that of your employees for tax purposes, take steps need to meet health codes, zoning codes, building codes and other local ordinances plus a wide array of state and federal laws that require that you do things for the benefit of customers, employees and the community.

Our tax system is clearly an abomination to freedom. As for the codes you listed, I am a liberal leaning libertarian, and I am OK with local governments having many of those powers for the safety of their communities, but protecting neighbors from each other's actions is an entirely different thing than simply using guns to force citizens to do business with each other, which is an abomination in every way to liberalism. It's pure leftist authoritarianism.

What you seem to advocate is a nation in which you are free to do anything you choose. That type of society began dying thousands of years ago. There are places on earth that come pretty close to what you desire, however I don't think you would want to live there. In our society we are all very dependent on others. That means laws and regulation and lots of them. The more dependent we become on others the more regulations there will be.

That's completely vague. I am an extremist with negative rights. Positive rights are pure government oppression. I've been saying that, Holmes. Sure, you should be able to "do anything you chose." When you violate someone else's right to do the same, then it's a legitimate power of government to get involved. That has nothing to do with PA laws, that is simply government coercing it's citizens
 
You are completely within your rights to deny service to anyone that abuses your staff or does not follow your dress code. You are also within your rights to reject any customer that does not meet your business model as long as that model does not violate anti-discrimination laws. However, when you start making assumptions about customers based on their apperance, you are on danger grounds both legally and socially.

Who I do business with is up to me, fuck off. It's none of your business. Again, that is why you are an authoritarian leftist. I am a liberal, a true liberal. A true liberal when denied service walks across the street and gives their business to their competitor. An authoritarian leftist runs to the government, wah, make them!

A funny thing on the appearance thing. We had a young man walking back and forth up and down the street in front of our business. He had his pants down his ass as is popular. I wasn't in the office when it happened, but my staff felt uncomfortable like he was casing us and called the cops. They came but he was gone by then. A few days later he walked in. We do graphic design and promotional/marketing. Turns out he's a rapper and he bought a bunch of crap from us. He asked if we take cash, LOL, and pre-paid for everything. He was apparently a nice kid. No idea why he was walking back in forth down the street prior to that, I guess they didn't want to ask him.

I do business with anyone other than the thing about how they treat my staff and that sort of thing. We have a $5 minimum to drive off the B2C market we don't want rather than telling them no. We do business with conservative churches as well as Democrat candidates and Planned Parenthood. I am a complete color bigot, I only do business with one. Green. I totally advocate my competitors discriminating, more work for us!

It's still our choice, not yours, Stalin. Fuck off

Your statement that no one has the right to compel you to do things for others is absolutely absurd. The government certainly has the right to compel you to report your income and that of your employees for tax purposes, take steps need to meet health codes, zoning codes, building codes and other local ordinances plus a wide array of state and federal laws that require that you do things for the benefit of customers, employees and the community.

Our tax system is clearly an abomination to freedom. As for the codes you listed, I am a liberal leaning libertarian, and I am OK with local governments having many of those powers for the safety of their communities, but protecting neighbors from each other's actions is an entirely different thing than simply using guns to force citizens to do business with each other, which is an abomination in every way to liberalism. It's pure leftist authoritarianism.

What you seem to advocate is a nation in which you are free to do anything you choose. That type of society began dying thousands of years ago. There are places on earth that come pretty close to what you desire, however I don't think you would want to live there. In our society we are all very dependent on others. That means laws and regulation and lots of them. The more dependent we become on others the more regulations there will be.

That's completely vague. I am an extremist with negative rights. Positive rights are pure government oppression. I've been saying that, Holmes. Sure, you should be able to "do anything you chose." When you violate someone else's right to do the same, then it's a legitimate power of government to get involved. That has nothing to do with PA laws, that is simply government coercing it's citizens
What it is, is Political Correctness erasing the constitution.
I dont think any one that owns a business should be forced to accommodate gays or anyone else they dont want to do business with.
Me personally? I would have baked the cake, brought it to the reception and kissed the bride, or groom, or both if I couldnt figure out who was who.
 
You are completely within your rights to deny service to anyone that abuses your staff or does not follow your dress code. You are also within your rights to reject any customer that does not meet your business model as long as that model does not violate anti-discrimination laws. However, when you start making assumptions about customers based on their apperance, you are on danger grounds both legally and socially.

Who I do business with is up to me, fuck off. It's none of your business. Again, that is why you are an authoritarian leftist. I am a liberal, a true liberal. A true liberal when denied service walks across the street and gives their business to their competitor. An authoritarian leftist runs to the government, wah, make them!

A funny thing on the appearance thing. We had a young man walking back and forth up and down the street in front of our business. He had his pants down his ass as is popular. I wasn't in the office when it happened, but my staff felt uncomfortable like he was casing us and called the cops. They came but he was gone by then. A few days later he walked in. We do graphic design and promotional/marketing. Turns out he's a rapper and he bought a bunch of crap from us. He asked if we take cash, LOL, and pre-paid for everything. He was apparently a nice kid. No idea why he was walking back in forth down the street prior to that, I guess they didn't want to ask him.

I do business with anyone other than the thing about how they treat my staff and that sort of thing. We have a $5 minimum to drive off the B2C market we don't want rather than telling them no. We do business with conservative churches as well as Democrat candidates and Planned Parenthood. I am a complete color bigot, I only do business with one. Green. I totally advocate my competitors discriminating, more work for us!

It's still our choice, not yours, Stalin. Fuck off

Your statement that no one has the right to compel you to do things for others is absolutely absurd. The government certainly has the right to compel you to report your income and that of your employees for tax purposes, take steps need to meet health codes, zoning codes, building codes and other local ordinances plus a wide array of state and federal laws that require that you do things for the benefit of customers, employees and the community.

Our tax system is clearly an abomination to freedom. As for the codes you listed, I am a liberal leaning libertarian, and I am OK with local governments having many of those powers for the safety of their communities, but protecting neighbors from each other's actions is an entirely different thing than simply using guns to force citizens to do business with each other, which is an abomination in every way to liberalism. It's pure leftist authoritarianism.

What you seem to advocate is a nation in which you are free to do anything you choose. That type of society began dying thousands of years ago. There are places on earth that come pretty close to what you desire, however I don't think you would want to live there. In our society we are all very dependent on others. That means laws and regulation and lots of them. The more dependent we become on others the more regulations there will be.

That's completely vague. I am an extremist with negative rights. Positive rights are pure government oppression. I've been saying that, Holmes. Sure, you should be able to "do anything you chose." When you violate someone else's right to do the same, then it's a legitimate power of government to get involved. That has nothing to do with PA laws, that is simply government coercing it's citizens
What it is, is Political Correctness erasing the constitution.
I dont think any one that owns a business should be forced to accommodate gays or anyone else they dont want to do business with.
Me personally? I would have baked the cake, brought it to the reception and kissed the bride, or groom, or both if I couldnt figure out who was who.
Nonsense.

There is no such thing as 'political correctness,' it's a myth contrived by the right in an effort to conceal their fear and disdain for free and open debate in a free and democratic society.

Public accommodations laws are necessary, proper, and Constitutional as authorized by the Commerce Clause, where state and local governments are authorized to regulate markets.

Public accommodations laws with provisions for sexual orientation are likewise just and Constitutional, where business owners aren't being 'forced' to do anything 'against' their religion; indeed, business owners are subject to all manner of Constitutional regulatory measures, such as paying a minimum wage and ensuring safe working conditions for employees – public accommodations laws are no different, and to whine about such laws being 'un-Constitutional' is ignorant and unfounded.
 
You are completely within your rights to deny service to anyone that abuses your staff or does not follow your dress code. You are also within your rights to reject any customer that does not meet your business model as long as that model does not violate anti-discrimination laws. However, when you start making assumptions about customers based on their apperance, you are on danger grounds both legally and socially.

Who I do business with is up to me, fuck off. It's none of your business. Again, that is why you are an authoritarian leftist. I am a liberal, a true liberal. A true liberal when denied service walks across the street and gives their business to their competitor. An authoritarian leftist runs to the government, wah, make them!

A funny thing on the appearance thing. We had a young man walking back and forth up and down the street in front of our business. He had his pants down his ass as is popular. I wasn't in the office when it happened, but my staff felt uncomfortable like he was casing us and called the cops. They came but he was gone by then. A few days later he walked in. We do graphic design and promotional/marketing. Turns out he's a rapper and he bought a bunch of crap from us. He asked if we take cash, LOL, and pre-paid for everything. He was apparently a nice kid. No idea why he was walking back in forth down the street prior to that, I guess they didn't want to ask him.

I do business with anyone other than the thing about how they treat my staff and that sort of thing. We have a $5 minimum to drive off the B2C market we don't want rather than telling them no. We do business with conservative churches as well as Democrat candidates and Planned Parenthood. I am a complete color bigot, I only do business with one. Green. I totally advocate my competitors discriminating, more work for us!

It's still our choice, not yours, Stalin. Fuck off

Your statement that no one has the right to compel you to do things for others is absolutely absurd. The government certainly has the right to compel you to report your income and that of your employees for tax purposes, take steps need to meet health codes, zoning codes, building codes and other local ordinances plus a wide array of state and federal laws that require that you do things for the benefit of customers, employees and the community.

Our tax system is clearly an abomination to freedom. As for the codes you listed, I am a liberal leaning libertarian, and I am OK with local governments having many of those powers for the safety of their communities, but protecting neighbors from each other's actions is an entirely different thing than simply using guns to force citizens to do business with each other, which is an abomination in every way to liberalism. It's pure leftist authoritarianism.

What you seem to advocate is a nation in which you are free to do anything you choose. That type of society began dying thousands of years ago. There are places on earth that come pretty close to what you desire, however I don't think you would want to live there. In our society we are all very dependent on others. That means laws and regulation and lots of them. The more dependent we become on others the more regulations there will be.

That's completely vague. I am an extremist with negative rights. Positive rights are pure government oppression. I've been saying that, Holmes. Sure, you should be able to "do anything you chose." When you violate someone else's right to do the same, then it's a legitimate power of government to get involved. That has nothing to do with PA laws, that is simply government coercing it's citizens
What it is, is Political Correctness erasing the constitution.
I dont think any one that owns a business should be forced to accommodate gays or anyone else they dont want to do business with.
Me personally? I would have baked the cake, brought it to the reception and kissed the bride, or groom, or both if I couldnt figure out who was who.
Nonsense.

There is no such thing as 'political correctness,' it's a myth contrived by the right in an effort to conceal their fear and disdain for free and open debate in a free and democratic society.

Public accommodations laws are necessary, proper, and Constitutional as authorized by the Commerce Clause, where state and local governments are authorized to regulate markets.

Public accommodations laws with provisions for sexual orientation are likewise just and Constitutional, where business owners aren't being 'forced' to do anything 'against' their religion; indeed, business owners are subject to all manner of Constitutional regulatory measures, such as paying a minimum wage and ensuring safe working conditions for employees – public accommodations laws are no different, and to whine about such laws being 'un-Constitutional' is ignorant and unfounded.
Yes there is political correctness, and its the left trying to curb free speech.
as far as the interstate commerce clause, it has nothing to do with the bakers and their cake.
 
As you said, the businesses that don't want customers are almost non-existent, so there should be no problem with requiring that businesses serve the public. After all, it's in their best interest to so.

No, businesses do not serve "the public," we serve OUR customers. Our customers are people who pay us, don't abuse our staff, dress appropriately when they enter our business, fit our business model, are profitable, etc. If you enter my business, my staff will decide if you fit our customer base.

As for your standard there should be "no problem with requiring" businesses to serve the public (who we don't serve), let's pass a law by your reasoning requiring flushing the toilet, your standard is "so there should be no problem with requiring" us to do so. Most people do flush the toilet, what's the harm? Actually, there are three problems with it:

1) It's not a legitimate power of government. No one has the right to require legally toilets be flushed just like no one has the right to force someone to build them a cake. Positive rights are an oxymoron, you have no right to compel anyone to do things for you, you only have the right to compel them to not do things to you that you don't want them to do.

2) Frivolous lawsuits. A jackass gets into a party at your house, you kick him out. The next day you get a lawsuit, you didn't flush your toilet. That's why he left your party.

3) General enforcement. Well now, the government wants to make sure you flush your toilet, it's the law, they are just enforcing the law. So now there are more laws to verify you flush your toilet and flushing the toilet is access to your home which then is access to all sorts of other things they want to verify and monitor

And a law requiring flushing the toilet is absolutely as ridiculous as a law requiring anyone to bake a cake. Here's a far easier solution in the incredibly unlikely event that happens. Walk across the street to their competitor...
You are completely within your rights to deny service to anyone that abuses your staff or does not follow your dress code. You are also within your rights to reject any customer that does not meet your business model as long as that model does not violate anti-discrimination laws. However, when you start making assumptions about customers based on their apperance, you are on danger grounds both legally and socially.

Your statement that no one has the right to compel you to do things for others is absolutely absurd. The government certainly has the right to compel you to report your income and that of your employees for tax purposes, take steps need to meet health codes, zoning codes, building codes and other local ordinances plus a wide array of state and federal laws that require that you do things for the benefit of customers, employees and the community.

What you seem to advocate is a nation in which you are free to do anything you choose. That type of society began dying thousands of years ago. There are places on earth that come pretty close to what you desire, however I don't think you would want to live there. In our society we are all very dependent on others. That means laws and regulation and lots of them. The more dependent we become on others the more regulations there will be.
The whole problem is that we are dependent on each other. Liberals cant wipe their own ass unless someone else is there to help them.
the solution to our societies problems is to depend on ourselves and not each other.
as far as not dealing with gays, if it is a religious reason then its legal. Religion was protected long before gays were.
People are very dependent on each other and the institution that comprise our society.. Whether it's a problem or not is not really important because that is simple the way the world is today and it's not going to change. We dependent on others for the food we eat, the highways we drive on, our jobs, our entertainment, our protection, our healthcare, our education and most everything we do throughout the day. And with dependency comes laws and regulations. It's unavoidable.

If you think saying it makes it legal, then you are disillusion.
 
You are completely within your rights to deny service to anyone that abuses your staff or does not follow your dress code. You are also within your rights to reject any customer that does not meet your business model as long as that model does not violate anti-discrimination laws. However, when you start making assumptions about customers based on their apperance, you are on danger grounds both legally and socially.

Who I do business with is up to me, fuck off. It's none of your business. Again, that is why you are an authoritarian leftist. I am a liberal, a true liberal. A true liberal when denied service walks across the street and gives their business to their competitor. An authoritarian leftist runs to the government, wah, make them!

A funny thing on the appearance thing. We had a young man walking back and forth up and down the street in front of our business. He had his pants down his ass as is popular. I wasn't in the office when it happened, but my staff felt uncomfortable like he was casing us and called the cops. They came but he was gone by then. A few days later he walked in. We do graphic design and promotional/marketing. Turns out he's a rapper and he bought a bunch of crap from us. He asked if we take cash, LOL, and pre-paid for everything. He was apparently a nice kid. No idea why he was walking back in forth down the street prior to that, I guess they didn't want to ask him.

I do business with anyone other than the thing about how they treat my staff and that sort of thing. We have a $5 minimum to drive off the B2C market we don't want rather than telling them no. We do business with conservative churches as well as Democrat candidates and Planned Parenthood. I am a complete color bigot, I only do business with one. Green. I totally advocate my competitors discriminating, more work for us!

It's still our choice, not yours, Stalin. Fuck off

Your statement that no one has the right to compel you to do things for others is absolutely absurd. The government certainly has the right to compel you to report your income and that of your employees for tax purposes, take steps need to meet health codes, zoning codes, building codes and other local ordinances plus a wide array of state and federal laws that require that you do things for the benefit of customers, employees and the community.

Our tax system is clearly an abomination to freedom. As for the codes you listed, I am a liberal leaning libertarian, and I am OK with local governments having many of those powers for the safety of their communities, but protecting neighbors from each other's actions is an entirely different thing than simply using guns to force citizens to do business with each other, which is an abomination in every way to liberalism. It's pure leftist authoritarianism.

What you seem to advocate is a nation in which you are free to do anything you choose. That type of society began dying thousands of years ago. There are places on earth that come pretty close to what you desire, however I don't think you would want to live there. In our society we are all very dependent on others. That means laws and regulation and lots of them. The more dependent we become on others the more regulations there will be.

That's completely vague. I am an extremist with negative rights. Positive rights are pure government oppression. I've been saying that, Holmes. Sure, you should be able to "do anything you chose." When you violate someone else's right to do the same, then it's a legitimate power of government to get involved. That has nothing to do with PA laws, that is simply government coercing it's citizens
What it is, is Political Correctness erasing the constitution.
I dont think any one that owns a business should be forced to accommodate gays or anyone else they dont want to do business with.
Me personally? I would have baked the cake, brought it to the reception and kissed the bride, or groom, or both if I couldnt figure out who was who.
Nonsense.

There is no such thing as 'political correctness,' it's a myth contrived by the right in an effort to conceal their fear and disdain for free and open debate in a free and democratic society.

Public accommodations laws are necessary, proper, and Constitutional as authorized by the Commerce Clause, where state and local governments are authorized to regulate markets.

Public accommodations laws with provisions for sexual orientation are likewise just and Constitutional, where business owners aren't being 'forced' to do anything 'against' their religion; indeed, business owners are subject to all manner of Constitutional regulatory measures, such as paying a minimum wage and ensuring safe working conditions for employees – public accommodations laws are no different, and to whine about such laws being 'un-Constitutional' is ignorant and unfounded.

LOL, the PC crowd just wants a "free and open debate." You're just a leftist political hack.

And you have every right to be left alone, you have no right to demand anything from others. Stop being so greedy and lazy and take care of your own bad self instead of asking Uncle Bama to do it for you
 
As you said, the businesses that don't want customers are almost non-existent, so there should be no problem with requiring that businesses serve the public. After all, it's in their best interest to so.

No, businesses do not serve "the public," we serve OUR customers. Our customers are people who pay us, don't abuse our staff, dress appropriately when they enter our business, fit our business model, are profitable, etc. If you enter my business, my staff will decide if you fit our customer base.

As for your standard there should be "no problem with requiring" businesses to serve the public (who we don't serve), let's pass a law by your reasoning requiring flushing the toilet, your standard is "so there should be no problem with requiring" us to do so. Most people do flush the toilet, what's the harm? Actually, there are three problems with it:

1) It's not a legitimate power of government. No one has the right to require legally toilets be flushed just like no one has the right to force someone to build them a cake. Positive rights are an oxymoron, you have no right to compel anyone to do things for you, you only have the right to compel them to not do things to you that you don't want them to do.

2) Frivolous lawsuits. A jackass gets into a party at your house, you kick him out. The next day you get a lawsuit, you didn't flush your toilet. That's why he left your party.

3) General enforcement. Well now, the government wants to make sure you flush your toilet, it's the law, they are just enforcing the law. So now there are more laws to verify you flush your toilet and flushing the toilet is access to your home which then is access to all sorts of other things they want to verify and monitor

And a law requiring flushing the toilet is absolutely as ridiculous as a law requiring anyone to bake a cake. Here's a far easier solution in the incredibly unlikely event that happens. Walk across the street to their competitor...
You are completely within your rights to deny service to anyone that abuses your staff or does not follow your dress code. You are also within your rights to reject any customer that does not meet your business model as long as that model does not violate anti-discrimination laws. However, when you start making assumptions about customers based on their apperance, you are on danger grounds both legally and socially.

Your statement that no one has the right to compel you to do things for others is absolutely absurd. The government certainly has the right to compel you to report your income and that of your employees for tax purposes, take steps need to meet health codes, zoning codes, building codes and other local ordinances plus a wide array of state and federal laws that require that you do things for the benefit of customers, employees and the community.

What you seem to advocate is a nation in which you are free to do anything you choose. That type of society began dying thousands of years ago. There are places on earth that come pretty close to what you desire, however I don't think you would want to live there. In our society we are all very dependent on others. That means laws and regulation and lots of them. The more dependent we become on others the more regulations there will be.
The whole problem is that we are dependent on each other. Liberals cant wipe their own ass unless someone else is there to help them.
the solution to our societies problems is to depend on ourselves and not each other.
as far as not dealing with gays, if it is a religious reason then its legal. Religion was protected long before gays were.
People are very dependent on each other and the institution that comprise our society.. Whether it's a problem or not is not really important because that is simple the way the world is today and it's not going to change. We dependent on others for the food we eat, the highways we drive on, our jobs, our entertainment, our protection, our healthcare, our education and most everything we do throughout the day. And with dependency comes laws and regulations. It's unavoidable.

If you think saying it makes it legal, then you are disillusion.

And that makes it make sense that you can't wipe your own ass unless someone helps you?

PA laws are just shallow excuses for the exertion of raw government power, they serve no other purpose. Businesses are looking for customers, not to drive them away. And the rare idiot who does is doing you a favor by telling you to spend your money in a business not owned by a dick
 
Is it an actual question for anybody else? I feel that saying it is a choice somehow implies that something is fundamentally wrong with homosexual activity. If you were born loving dudes or one day woke up to find you only wanted to sleep with men, I fail to understand how either can justify persecution. Of course this applies to lesbians as well.
Having choice or not homosexuality has no sense...

It doesn't matter

If you see human sexual behavior as a continuum just like all other human behaviors then it's no surprise that a certain precentage og the population exhibits homosexual behavior

It matters not if that manifests because of biology or choice and that does not factor in the psychological reasons for homosexuality
 
You are completely within your rights to deny service to anyone that abuses your staff or does not follow your dress code. You are also within your rights to reject any customer that does not meet your business model as long as that model does not violate anti-discrimination laws. However, when you start making assumptions about customers based on their apperance, you are on danger grounds both legally and socially.

Who I do business with is up to me, fuck off. It's none of your business. Again, that is why you are an authoritarian leftist. I am a liberal, a true liberal. A true liberal when denied service walks across the street and gives their business to their competitor. An authoritarian leftist runs to the government, wah, make them!

A funny thing on the appearance thing. We had a young man walking back and forth up and down the street in front of our business. He had his pants down his ass as is popular. I wasn't in the office when it happened, but my staff felt uncomfortable like he was casing us and called the cops. They came but he was gone by then. A few days later he walked in. We do graphic design and promotional/marketing. Turns out he's a rapper and he bought a bunch of crap from us. He asked if we take cash, LOL, and pre-paid for everything. He was apparently a nice kid. No idea why he was walking back in forth down the street prior to that, I guess they didn't want to ask him.

I do business with anyone other than the thing about how they treat my staff and that sort of thing. We have a $5 minimum to drive off the B2C market we don't want rather than telling them no. We do business with conservative churches as well as Democrat candidates and Planned Parenthood. I am a complete color bigot, I only do business with one. Green. I totally advocate my competitors discriminating, more work for us!

It's still our choice, not yours, Stalin. Fuck off

Your statement that no one has the right to compel you to do things for others is absolutely absurd. The government certainly has the right to compel you to report your income and that of your employees for tax purposes, take steps need to meet health codes, zoning codes, building codes and other local ordinances plus a wide array of state and federal laws that require that you do things for the benefit of customers, employees and the community.

Our tax system is clearly an abomination to freedom. As for the codes you listed, I am a liberal leaning libertarian, and I am OK with local governments having many of those powers for the safety of their communities, but protecting neighbors from each other's actions is an entirely different thing than simply using guns to force citizens to do business with each other, which is an abomination in every way to liberalism. It's pure leftist authoritarianism.

What you seem to advocate is a nation in which you are free to do anything you choose. That type of society began dying thousands of years ago. There are places on earth that come pretty close to what you desire, however I don't think you would want to live there. In our society we are all very dependent on others. That means laws and regulation and lots of them. The more dependent we become on others the more regulations there will be.

That's completely vague. I am an extremist with negative rights. Positive rights are pure government oppression. I've been saying that, Holmes. Sure, you should be able to "do anything you chose." When you violate someone else's right to do the same, then it's a legitimate power of government to get involved. That has nothing to do with PA laws, that is simply government coercing it's citizens
What it is, is Political Correctness erasing the constitution.
I dont think any one that owns a business should be forced to accommodate gays or anyone else they dont want to do business with.
Me personally? I would have baked the cake, brought it to the reception and kissed the bride, or groom, or both if I couldnt figure out who was who.
Nonsense.

There is no such thing as 'political correctness,' it's a myth contrived by the right in an effort to conceal their fear and disdain for free and open debate in a free and democratic society.

Public accommodations laws are necessary, proper, and Constitutional as authorized by the Commerce Clause, where state and local governments are authorized to regulate markets.

Public accommodations laws with provisions for sexual orientation are likewise just and Constitutional, where business owners aren't being 'forced' to do anything 'against' their religion; indeed, business owners are subject to all manner of Constitutional regulatory measures, such as paying a minimum wage and ensuring safe working conditions for employees – public accommodations laws are no different, and to whine about such laws being 'un-Constitutional' is ignorant and unfounded.

LOL, the PC crowd just wants a "free and open debate." You're just a leftist political hack.

And you have every right to be left alone, you have no right to demand anything from others. Stop being so greedy and lazy and take care of your own bad self instead of asking Uncle Bama to do it for you
Tell me again why we dont agree with each other in certain threads? LOL
 
Is it an actual question for anybody else? I feel that saying it is a choice somehow implies that something is fundamentally wrong with homosexual activity. If you were born loving dudes or one day woke up to find you only wanted to sleep with men, I fail to understand how either can justify persecution. Of course this applies to lesbians as well.
Having choice or not homosexuality has no sense...

It doesn't matter

If you see human sexual behavior as a continuum just like all other human behaviors then it's no surprise that a certain precentage og the population exhibits homosexual behavior

It matters not if that manifests because of biology or choice and that does not factor in the psychological reasons for homosexuality
who cares if its choice or not.
Until someone can come up with a real and solid reason that homosexuality hurts them as a heterosexual, I just cant wrap my thoughts around making gays second class citizens. Because one thinks its icky, or against their religion has no bearing on them unless being gay becomes a forced thing. ( dont think thats going to happen)
Besides, if its religion, Jesus said he came for the sinner not the self righteous. Now, when judgement day comes along which side do you want to be standing on, the gay side with the gays and their supporters where Jesus is? or the self righteous side where Jesus isnt?
As what I like to think of as a real Christian, that is full of Biblical sin, Im going to be standing in the gay group.
 
1. There is no such thing as 'political correctness,' it's a myth contrived by the right in an effort to conceal their fear and disdain for free and open debate in a free and democratic society.

2. Public accommodations laws are necessary, proper, and Constitutional as authorized by the Commerce Clause, where state and local governments are authorized to regulate markets.

3. Public accommodations laws with provisions for sexual orientation are likewise just and Constitutional,

1. Then how come the LGBT blogger crew here at USMB do nothing but spam threads they don't like (ones that probe into their ilk too far), berate other posters for having opposing opinions on a regular basis and call anyone who disagrees with them a "hater"...and in the real world file lawsuits against anyone who opposes their cult? Free and open debate MY ASS. :lmao:

2. PA laws may be necessary when it comes to actual classes of people. However, race and sexual behaviors aren't even in the same ballpark. This false premise is used over and over and over and over again with the hopes that enough repetition will make a lie the truth.

3. Which sexual orientations? All of them? Or just your favorites? We are talking about behaviors so it's really hard to nail down...and hence the reason behaviors are not a class of people. That must be overturned or the right to majority rule (on behaviors, not race) is over Constitutionally.

All the PA laws in the world cannot do one thing: they cannot override the 1st Amendment. You might want to give the 9th Amendment a quick read and get back to me.. :popcorn:
 
Is it an actual question for anybody else? I feel that saying it is a choice somehow implies that something is fundamentally wrong with homosexual activity. If you were born loving dudes or one day woke up to find you only wanted to sleep with men, I fail to understand how either can justify persecution. Of course this applies to lesbians as well.
Having choice or not homosexuality has no sense...

It doesn't matter

If you see human sexual behavior as a continuum just like all other human behaviors then it's no surprise that a certain precentage og the population exhibits homosexual behavior

It matters not if that manifests because of biology or choice and that does not factor in the psychological reasons for homosexuality
who cares if its choice or not.
Until someone can come up with a real and solid reason that homosexuality hurts them as a heterosexual, I just cant wrap my thoughts around making gays second class citizens. Because one thinks its icky, or against their religion has no bearing on them unless being gay becomes a forced thing. ( dont think thats going to happen)
Besides, if its religion, Jesus said he came for the sinner not the self righteous. Now, when judgement day comes along which side do you want to be standing on, the gay side with the gays and their supporters where Jesus is? or the self righteous side where Jesus isnt?
As what I like to think of as a real Christian, that is full of Biblical sin, Im going to be standing in the gay group.

I don't know what you're all hot and bothered about

The very first line of my post was

It doesn't matter
 
Is it an actual question for anybody else? I feel that saying it is a choice somehow implies that something is fundamentally wrong with homosexual activity. If you were born loving dudes or one day woke up to find you only wanted to sleep with men, I fail to understand how either can justify persecution. Of course this applies to lesbians as well.
Having choice or not homosexuality has no sense...

It doesn't matter

If you see human sexual behavior as a continuum just like all other human behaviors then it's no surprise that a certain precentage og the population exhibits homosexual behavior

It matters not if that manifests because of biology or choice and that does not factor in the psychological reasons for homosexuality
who cares if its choice or not.
Until someone can come up with a real and solid reason that homosexuality hurts them as a heterosexual, I just cant wrap my thoughts around making gays second class citizens. Because one thinks its icky, or against their religion has no bearing on them unless being gay becomes a forced thing. ( dont think thats going to happen)
Besides, if its religion, Jesus said he came for the sinner not the self righteous. Now, when judgement day comes along which side do you want to be standing on, the gay side with the gays and their supporters where Jesus is? or the self righteous side where Jesus isnt?
As what I like to think of as a real Christian, that is full of Biblical sin, Im going to be standing in the gay group.

I don't know what you're all hot and bothered about

The very first line of my post was

It doesn't matter
I agreed with you, call it embellishing
some people just get butt hurt over the smallest things.
ok, maybe small things and butt hurt shouldnt be on a post about homosexuals.
 
As you said, the businesses that don't want customers are almost non-existent, so there should be no problem with requiring that businesses serve the public. After all, it's in their best interest to so.

No, businesses do not serve "the public," we serve OUR customers. Our customers are people who pay us, don't abuse our staff, dress appropriately when they enter our business, fit our business model, are profitable, etc. If you enter my business, my staff will decide if you fit our customer base.

As for your standard there should be "no problem with requiring" businesses to serve the public (who we don't serve), let's pass a law by your reasoning requiring flushing the toilet, your standard is "so there should be no problem with requiring" us to do so. Most people do flush the toilet, what's the harm? Actually, there are three problems with it:

1) It's not a legitimate power of government. No one has the right to require legally toilets be flushed just like no one has the right to force someone to build them a cake. Positive rights are an oxymoron, you have no right to compel anyone to do things for you, you only have the right to compel them to not do things to you that you don't want them to do.

2) Frivolous lawsuits. A jackass gets into a party at your house, you kick him out. The next day you get a lawsuit, you didn't flush your toilet. That's why he left your party.

3) General enforcement. Well now, the government wants to make sure you flush your toilet, it's the law, they are just enforcing the law. So now there are more laws to verify you flush your toilet and flushing the toilet is access to your home which then is access to all sorts of other things they want to verify and monitor

And a law requiring flushing the toilet is absolutely as ridiculous as a law requiring anyone to bake a cake. Here's a far easier solution in the incredibly unlikely event that happens. Walk across the street to their competitor...
You are completely within your rights to deny service to anyone that abuses your staff or does not follow your dress code. You are also within your rights to reject any customer that does not meet your business model as long as that model does not violate anti-discrimination laws. However, when you start making assumptions about customers based on their apperance, you are on danger grounds both legally and socially.

Your statement that no one has the right to compel you to do things for others is absolutely absurd. The government certainly has the right to compel you to report your income and that of your employees for tax purposes, take steps need to meet health codes, zoning codes, building codes and other local ordinances plus a wide array of state and federal laws that require that you do things for the benefit of customers, employees and the community.

What you seem to advocate is a nation in which you are free to do anything you choose. That type of society began dying thousands of years ago. There are places on earth that come pretty close to what you desire, however I don't think you would want to live there. In our society we are all very dependent on others. That means laws and regulation and lots of them. The more dependent we become on others the more regulations there will be.
The whole problem is that we are dependent on each other. Liberals cant wipe their own ass unless someone else is there to help them.
the solution to our societies problems is to depend on ourselves and not each other.
as far as not dealing with gays, if it is a religious reason then its legal. Religion was protected long before gays were.
People are very dependent on each other and the institution that comprise our society.. Whether it's a problem or not is not really important because that is simple the way the world is today and it's not going to change. We dependent on others for the food we eat, the highways we drive on, our jobs, our entertainment, our protection, our healthcare, our education and most everything we do throughout the day. And with dependency comes laws and regulations. It's unavoidable.

If you think saying it makes it legal, then you are disillusion.

And that makes it make sense that you can't wipe your own ass unless someone helps you?

PA laws are just shallow excuses for the exertion of raw government power, they serve no other purpose. Businesses are looking for customers, not to drive them away. And the rare idiot who does is doing you a favor by telling you to spend your money in a business not owned by a dick
What makes sense is dealing with the real world, not some pipe dream of rugged individualists living without government or community.
 
No, businesses do not serve "the public," we serve OUR customers. Our customers are people who pay us, don't abuse our staff, dress appropriately when they enter our business, fit our business model, are profitable, etc. If you enter my business, my staff will decide if you fit our customer base.

As for your standard there should be "no problem with requiring" businesses to serve the public (who we don't serve), let's pass a law by your reasoning requiring flushing the toilet, your standard is "so there should be no problem with requiring" us to do so. Most people do flush the toilet, what's the harm? Actually, there are three problems with it:

1) It's not a legitimate power of government. No one has the right to require legally toilets be flushed just like no one has the right to force someone to build them a cake. Positive rights are an oxymoron, you have no right to compel anyone to do things for you, you only have the right to compel them to not do things to you that you don't want them to do.

2) Frivolous lawsuits. A jackass gets into a party at your house, you kick him out. The next day you get a lawsuit, you didn't flush your toilet. That's why he left your party.

3) General enforcement. Well now, the government wants to make sure you flush your toilet, it's the law, they are just enforcing the law. So now there are more laws to verify you flush your toilet and flushing the toilet is access to your home which then is access to all sorts of other things they want to verify and monitor

And a law requiring flushing the toilet is absolutely as ridiculous as a law requiring anyone to bake a cake. Here's a far easier solution in the incredibly unlikely event that happens. Walk across the street to their competitor...
You are completely within your rights to deny service to anyone that abuses your staff or does not follow your dress code. You are also within your rights to reject any customer that does not meet your business model as long as that model does not violate anti-discrimination laws. However, when you start making assumptions about customers based on their apperance, you are on danger grounds both legally and socially.

Your statement that no one has the right to compel you to do things for others is absolutely absurd. The government certainly has the right to compel you to report your income and that of your employees for tax purposes, take steps need to meet health codes, zoning codes, building codes and other local ordinances plus a wide array of state and federal laws that require that you do things for the benefit of customers, employees and the community.

What you seem to advocate is a nation in which you are free to do anything you choose. That type of society began dying thousands of years ago. There are places on earth that come pretty close to what you desire, however I don't think you would want to live there. In our society we are all very dependent on others. That means laws and regulation and lots of them. The more dependent we become on others the more regulations there will be.
The whole problem is that we are dependent on each other. Liberals cant wipe their own ass unless someone else is there to help them.
the solution to our societies problems is to depend on ourselves and not each other.
as far as not dealing with gays, if it is a religious reason then its legal. Religion was protected long before gays were.
People are very dependent on each other and the institution that comprise our society.. Whether it's a problem or not is not really important because that is simple the way the world is today and it's not going to change. We dependent on others for the food we eat, the highways we drive on, our jobs, our entertainment, our protection, our healthcare, our education and most everything we do throughout the day. And with dependency comes laws and regulations. It's unavoidable.

If you think saying it makes it legal, then you are disillusion.

And that makes it make sense that you can't wipe your own ass unless someone helps you?

PA laws are just shallow excuses for the exertion of raw government power, they serve no other purpose. Businesses are looking for customers, not to drive them away. And the rare idiot who does is doing you a favor by telling you to spend your money in a business not owned by a dick
What makes sense is dealing with the real world, not some pipe dream of rugged individualists living without government or community.

If someone doesn't like you because you're a flopper, walking across the street to their competitor is a "pipe dream of rugged individualists living without government or community." You running to government to say "wah, I want THEM to make me the cake" is just reality, got it.

BTW, your view that community = government is just butt stupid. I totally believe in community, libertarian is based on that. You think rejecting government doing it for you is rejection of "community?" Wow, you need therapy
 
Is it an actual question for anybody else? I feel that saying it is a choice somehow implies that something is fundamentally wrong with homosexual activity. If you were born loving dudes or one day woke up to find you only wanted to sleep with men, I fail to understand how either can justify persecution. Of course this applies to lesbians as well.
Having choice or not homosexuality has no sense...

It's important, to some, because of our incoherent conception of free will and its relationship with moral accountability.
 
Is it an actual question for anybody else? I feel that saying it is a choice somehow implies that something is fundamentally wrong with homosexual activity. If you were born loving dudes or one day woke up to find you only wanted to sleep with men, I fail to understand how either can justify persecution. Of course this applies to lesbians as well.
Having choice or not homosexuality has no sense...

Not giving gays government validation and tax breaks is "persecution." Liberals are so sad and weak, if you had to make it on your own without achievers to leach on you would just starve to death
 
Is it an actual question for anybody else? I feel that saying it is a choice somehow implies that something is fundamentally wrong with homosexual activity. If you were born loving dudes or one day woke up to find you only wanted to sleep with men, I fail to understand how either can justify persecution. Of course this applies to lesbians as well.
Having choice or not homosexuality has no sense...

Not giving gays government validation and tax breaks is "persecution." Liberals are so sad and weak, if you had to make it on your own without achievers to leach on you would just starve to death
Liberals are all about the cause, as long as someone else is paying for it and they are the ones getting it.
 

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