Why does healthcare cost so much?

[Gadawg73]

Blank check health care is the problem.
"Johnny has a cold so let us take him to the doctor" mentality.
Where my mother lives it is a hobby to go to the doctor.
Blank check. Some one else pays the bill.
WAKE UP DUMBASS AMERICANS.

 

[Sallow]

Private health insurance administration costs are through the roof.
CEOs live like kings. Those make it expensive.

Biggest reason is consumers, not the people paying the tab in most cases with employer paid health insurance, over utilize the system.
"It is free so I might as well use it" mentality has ruined American health care.
Blank check health care is the problem.

That's incorrect. But even if it were correct..it's the HMOs themselves that are driving that. Instead of getting regular checkups..people are waiting until they have real problems before they see a physician. And generally that's emergency care. Regular checkups should be encouraged..and health of the indivdual should be better managed. Americans are, quite simply, overworked, overweight, stressed to the breaking point and out of shape.

And the whole idea of the profit motive for the HMOs..is a bad model. They went downhill since most of them went public. That's where you see costs going through the roof. Their responsibility should be the health of the clients..not the profits of the shareholders.

 

[Greenbeard]

Why? Because we OVER UTILIZE THE SYSTEM. And get this startling fact. NOw we spend 55% of ALL health care dollars on disease care to treat 4% of the population.

Seems a bit contradictory. You start off effectively implying that costs are relatively evenly distributed and thus 1) an insurance model doesn't make sense, and 2) most people are responsible for contributing to our high national expenditures ("we OVER UTILIZE THE SYSTEM").

Then, unprompted, you point out that, no, the opposite is the case: health expenditures are extremely concentrated, with a very small segment of the population accounting for the majority of expenditures (and though you didn't explicitly say it, I will: most--i.e. a little over 50%--of the population contributes virtually nothing to national expenditures).

There are serious issues with our current payment and delivery structures but asking people to return to a 1950s standard of medical care so things can be like they were probably isn't feasible.

 

[Gadawg73]

Private health insurance administration costs are through the roof.
CEOs live like kings. Those make it expensive.

Biggest reason is consumers, not the people paying the tab in most cases with employer paid health insurance, over utilize the system.
"It is free so I might as well use it" mentality has ruined American health care.
Blank check health care is the problem.

That's incorrect. But even if it were correct..it's the HMOs themselves that are driving that. Instead of getting regular checkups..people are waiting until they have real problems before they see a physician. And generally that's emergency care. Regular checkups should be encouraged..and health of the indivdual should be better managed. Americans are, quite simply, overworked, overweight, stressed to the breaking point and out of shape.

And the whole idea of the profit motive for the HMOs..is a bad model. They went downhill since most of them went public. That's where you see costs going through the roof. Their responsibility should be the health of the clients..not the profits of the shareholders.

Then why is health care 20% of GNP now?
Demand has pushed it to 20%.
Where my mother lives they have 2 home health care vultures in there that almost live there. They will walk an elderly person for an hour outside and bill Medicare $150.
My Dad died in May 2010. We had DNR orders in place. We had his living will to NOT keep him alive per HIS wishes.
So what happened:
3 weeks before he died the home health care provider where he lived in Florida billed triple what I authorized. "Do not worry, Medicare will pay it" they stated. Well fuck, I did not want it and demanded they cease. They didn't even though I had medical power of attorney!! And it gets better, or in reality-worse.
2 weeks before he died he went into the hospital. Now keep in mind that over the previous 2 years Dad had to go to the hosptal afew times. And EACH TIME it was HELL to get him out of there because HE WANTED TO GO HOME. But hospitals have beds to fill and doctors have Mercedes and country club memberships to pay for.
HELLO, ANYONE HOME? WELL WAKE THE HELL UP.
So 2 weeks before he died he goes into the hospital because he did need to. Within 4 days he was sliding down hill. I wanted to take him to a hospice. Now keep in mind that I live north of Atlanta and he lived in Fort Myers Florida and was at Lee General Hospital in Fort Myers. Lee General was a mile from his assisted living apartment. Lee General has another hospital at Gulf General which is 10 miles away-I will explain that to you later.
So I want to send him to the hospice and the hospice lady is THERE. She says "Fat chance" and I wondered why. So we had the DNR order in place there to not keep Dad on machines to live PER HIS ORDERS. He signed off on that years before. Well, the doctor says "He has come around abit so we want to send him to the nursing home next door" OK I thought. Surely this doctor was being honest. How stupid I was. So he goes next door to the nursing home and the DNR order goes with him in his file. The nect day I receive call from the nursing home "Well, we want to give him some therapy to see if he can walk" they stated. OK I said. 5 days later at 11pm I get a call from a male EMT from Lee county. "We just picked up your Dad from the nursing home and are taking him to the hospital". OK, so I called Lee General which is across the street from the nursing home. "We do not have him" they stated an hour later. At 1 am, 3 hours later I found out they took him to the Gulf Lee Memorial 10 miles away! Why? Because the DNR order WAS NOT IN PLACE THERE and they can run the tab up. After all, we were not paying Medicare was paying.
HELLO, ANYONE HOME? WAKE THE HELL UP.
So the next day I call the nursing home administrator and was furious that Dad was EVEN TAKEN BY THE AMBULANCE as Dad DID NOT want that as his DNR specifically stated Do Not Resusitate. PERIOD. "Oh, well, we could not find the order in the records or file and uh, well, let me see, we are sorry, but you know, we knew it was there somewhere as we did speak with you and him about it, maybe the dog ate it", etc.
So the next morning I flew down there and I was at the hospital with Mom with the DNR order and Dad's membership card of The Right to Die Society of Florida. (found out later this is why folks like Dad join) I told them that per Dad's wishes to immediately take him the respirators and all machines. "Well, we do not know, there is not a hospice person here, are you sure?, the DNR order is not here but is that an original?, where are the other papers, are you sure?, maybe we can save him, let us try a few days". Absoultely no! I said. "Well go eat and stay a few days, rest and relax and we will get back to you.
Day 2 there: Dad's lawyer was there with me.
Day 3 there: We were going to petititon the court toforce them to take him off life support.
Day4 late evening they finally did. The doctor came in with the hospital administrator and told me to my face: "Well, we do get a few like you that do want to see their family member die" The lawyer and 3 male nurses had to restrain me.
Now during this time the hospice lady was there and by Florida statute-lobbied for by the AMA, the Florida physicians association and Hospital Association PROHIBITED her from giving us ANY ADVICE on what to do. After Dad died she told me this happens in almost every case.
Now the billing part: When he was at the nursing home for 5 days they billed $11,700 extra for speech therapy and also for occupational therapy, both at $150 an hour.
OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY FOR A 89 YEAR OLD MAN.
And we got the report thing in that Medicare sends out on all the payments a few months later-that is how we found out-and they PAID IT ALL.
I called them and told my story-"Did he get the therapy" Well yes I stated but he did not need it. "then it is a legitimate bill and there is NOTHING WE CAN DO"
Blank check health care and you believe doctors and ALL health providers do not run up the tab all the time?
We got the 5 days in the hospital for Dad bill in the mail that Dad NEVER WANTED;
$129,700.000
Medicare paid $119,000.00 of it and I refused to pay the rest.
This is the norm. Diseas care is BIG $$$$
Average costs of health care for the last 5 years of an American's life is $120,000.00 per.
And you claim this is not the cause of spiralling health care costs? And this is not over utilization of the system?
All of south Florida operates this way. Average Medicare cost of south Florida-$14K a senior a year. Texas-$5.5K a year.
Blank check health care has ruined it.
"It is free so let's go".

 

[Gadawg73]

Why? Because we OVER UTILIZE THE SYSTEM. And get this startling fact. NOw we spend 55% of ALL health care dollars on disease care to treat 4% of the population.

Seems a bit contradictory. You start off effectively implying that costs are relatively evenly distributed and thus 1) an insurance model doesn't make sense, and 2) most people are responsible for contributing to our high national expenditures ("we OVER UTILIZE THE SYSTEM").

Then, unprompted, you point out that, no, the opposite is the case: health expenditures are extremely concentrated, with a very small segment of the population accounting for the majority of expenditures (and though you didn't explicitly say it, I will: most--i.e. a little over 50%--of the population contributes virtually nothing to national expenditures).

There are serious issues with our current payment and delivery structures but asking people to return to a 1950s standard of medical care so things can be like they were probably isn't feasible.

If a third party was paying the bill how many days of the week would you go the strip club for table dances and booze?
1 or 7?

 

[lizzie]

Private health insurance administration costs are through the roof.
CEOs live like kings. Those make it expensive.

Biggest reason is consumers, not the people paying the tab in most cases with employer paid health insurance, over utilize the system.
"It is free so I might as well use it" mentality has ruined American health care.
Blank check health care is the problem.

That's incorrect. But even if it were correct..it's the HMOs themselves that are driving that. Instead of getting regular checkups..people are waiting until they have real problems before they see a physician. And generally that's emergency care. Regular checkups should be encouraged..and health of the indivdual should be better managed. Americans are, quite simply, overworked, overweight, stressed to the breaking point and out of shape.

And the whole idea of the profit motive for the HMOs..is a bad model. They went downhill since most of them went public. That's where you see costs going through the roof. Their responsibility should be the health of the clients..not the profits of the shareholders.

It's the responsibility of the individual to take care of his/her health. Not the insurance company. If you are fat or otherwise unhealthy, it's because of what you are doing, not what your insurance is not covering.

 

[dblack]

If a third party was paying the bill how many days of the week would you go the strip club for table dances and booze?
1 or 7?

And would you haggle over the prices for table dances? Or would you just go with the hottest girl?

I wonder what would happen to the prices....

 

[rdean]

Republicans call skimming insurance policies for a CEO hundred million dollar paycheck, "Good Capitalism" and the product of "hard work".

 

[dblack]

Republicans call skimming insurance policies for a CEO hundred million dollar paycheck, "Good Capitalism" and the product of "hard work".

That's very 'rdean' of you, but what does it have to do with the topic?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

If a third party was paying the bill how many days of the week would you go the strip club for table dances and booze?
1 or 7?

And would you haggle over the prices for table dances? Or would you just go with the hottest girl?

I wonder what would happen to the prices....

Exactly, health care is our least efficient industry because it is the least Republican capitalist. With capitalism low price and high quality is the only way to stay in business.

Imagine how bad and expensive a car would be if there was no competition, like in liberal healthcare? These are the kind of kindergarten questions you have to ask a liberal. It is our thankless civic duty even though it is like trying to teach a dog calculus.

 

[Gadawg73]

If a third party was paying the bill how many days of the week would you go the strip club for table dances and booze?
1 or 7?

And would you haggle over the prices for table dances? Or would you just go with the hottest girl?

I wonder what would happen to the prices....

Exactly, health care is our least efficient industry because it is the least Republican capitalist. With capitalism low price and high quality is the only way to stay in business.

Imagine how bad and expensive a car would be if there was no competition, like in liberal healthcare? These are the kind of kindergarten questions you have to ask a liberal. It is our thankless civic duty even though it is like trying to teach a dog calculus.

I see no objections from conservatives or liberals with the current system when someone else is paying their tab.
Where are all the conservatives crying foul when health care prices rise 15% a year and inflation is only 1%?
Blank check health care is a failure. The health care industry has figured out they can take advantage of it and they are, big time.
Unfunded Medicare is around 20 trillion for the next 30 years.
Bye Bye America. Health care costs will bankrupt us.
Problem is no one understands basic economics. What I took my freshman year at the university.

 

[dblack]

Blank check health care is a failure. The health care industry has figured out they can take advantage of it and they are, big time.

Exactly! Which is why they're pulling out all the stops to make sure we 'stay the course' on the failing model. They want to milk it for all it's worth and then set themselves up as 'public utilities' when government steps in to nationalize it. That's the overriding purpose of the ACA.

 

[geauxtohell]

A different perspective I posted on another thread:

Treating a Nation of Anxious Wimps

"We have seen the enemy, and he is us."

 

[dblack]

A different perspective I posted on another thread:

Treating a Nation of Anxious Wimps

"We have seen the enemy, and he is us."

I read that article a while back. And the while the 'overconsumption' argument comes up fairly often, it fails to identify why we seemingly have irresponsible demand for health care. Overconsumption is a direct result of the 'blank check' problem, and a problem parallel to health care inflation - but not its cause. It would be like concluding, in the stripper example above, that prices for lap dances were going up because we've become a nation of nymphomaniacs. Which would miss the point. Prices are going up because customers don't care about prices - because they're not footing the bill.

 

[Ernie S.]

Why does it cost so much, and why do those costs continue to go up? It really is very simple. We have found a way to increase life expectancy dramatically during a time when we have done everything else wrong.

First of all, our infant mortality rate is one of the worst, if not the worst, of all developed countries. snip.

Myth: The U.S. infant mortality rate is higher than that of other countries

Fact: The U.S.’ infant mortality rate is not higher; the rates of Canada and many European countries are artificially low, due to more restrictive definitions of live birth. There also are variations in the willingness of nations to save very low birth weight and gestation babies.

 

[Gadawg73]

Why does it cost so much, and why do those costs continue to go up? It really is very simple. We have found a way to increase life expectancy dramatically during a time when we have done everything else wrong.

First of all, our infant mortality rate is one of the worst, if not the worst, of all developed countries. snip.

Myth: The U.S. infant mortality rate is higher than that of other countries

Fact: The U.S.’ infant mortality rate is not higher; the rates of Canada and many European countries are artificially low, due to more restrictive definitions of live birth. There also are variations in the willingness of nations to save very low birth weight and gestation babies.

You are right but infant mortality has little or nothing to do with the cost of health care or how healthy a nation is.

 

[Meister]

I just don't see how the government is going to lower Healthcare costs without creating a huge deficit.
I feel that it can be done through competitive pricing by opening up the borders of the states. I also feel the government can create a safety net for those who aren't covered with pennies on the dollar instead of this healthcare bill going to maturity.
The government can be part of the solution, but it can't be the solution.

 

[Meister]

Why does it cost so much, and why do those costs continue to go up? It really is very simple. We have found a way to increase life expectancy dramatically during a time when we have done everything else wrong.

First of all, our infant mortality rate is one of the worst, if not the worst, of all developed countries. snip.

Myth: The U.S. infant mortality rate is higher than that of other countries

Fact: The U.S.’ infant mortality rate is not higher; the rates of Canada and many European countries are artificially low, due to more restrictive definitions of live birth. There also are variations in the willingness of nations to save very low birth weight and gestation babies.

You are right but infant mortality has little or nothing to do with the cost of health care or how healthy a nation is.

Perhaps, the government should also (through mandates) order us to wear brimmed hats outside to make a healthier nation in regards to skin cancer. If this bill passes the muster with the Supreme Court, it opens up a can of worms on what the government can mandate.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Myth: The U.S. infant mortality rate is higher than that of other countries

Fact: The U.S.’ infant mortality rate is not higher; the rates of Canada and many European countries are artificially low, due to more restrictive definitions of live birth. There also are variations in the willingness of nations to save very low birth weight and gestation babies.

You are right but infant mortality has little or nothing to do with the cost of health care or how healthy a nation is.

Perhaps, the government should also (through mandates) order us to wear brimmed hats outside to make a healthier nation in regards to skin cancer. If this bill passes the muster with the Supreme Court, it opens up a can of worms on what the government can mandate.

Yes there would be nothing the government could not make us do and the concept of America,i.e., freedom from government, would, in effect , be destroyed. Thank you liberals. What you could not get by spying for Stalin you are getting in other ways:

Norman Thomas quotes:
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.

 

[Gadawg73]

I just don't see how the government is going to lower Healthcare costs without creating a huge deficit.
I feel that it can be done through competitive pricing by opening up the borders of the states. I also feel the government can create a safety net for those who aren't covered with pennies on the dollar instead of this healthcare bill going to maturity.
The government can be part of the solution, but it can't be the solution.

1. End government group health care for government workers immediately. They get a voucher.
2. Seniors get vouchers. End Medicare.
3. End tax write offs for group health care for employers. Give credits to employers for vouchers to be given to employees paid by company.
For starters.
Government is involved now. End it.