Why do we even bother?

[wyomingpatriot]

when will the pendulum of american politics ever come to rest? naturally people will choose the gop, because it's their instinct to side with the rough opposite of failure, just as the public ousted them four years ago. and in another six years, after obama has been voted out and the gop has patted itself on the back for riding the coattails of his failures, and once again betrayed every platform they originally ran on, including their own principles, the public will fire them again, and the pendulum will swing the other way. it's as if the story of the last thirty years has been a never ending cycle of the lesser of two evils, striving to outdo each other in the quest to get re-elected and nothing more.
i'm sorry, but how can you be so stupid as to bring back the party that has done nothing but bring war, bring crippling debt, big government, and unconstitutional infringements such as the patriot act? theyre like the sex offender that we keep letting out of prison, who says he's found jesus, that he's changed, that he'd never molest another child again - and then when he's let out, guess what he does?
clearly there needs to be more than two parties. it's always the classic case of douche vs. turd, to borrow from a classic episode of south park. WHEN WILL THIS END?

 

[william the wie]

You left out one critical factor. With election reform increasing the importance of each party's electoral base every election cycle the majors get slightly more radical and less mainstream with each election cycle. This will cause the demise of one or both majors in the next 10 years.

 

[wyomingpatriot]

if that's the case, my prediction would be the democrats. not because i'm defending the gop or either side, but ultimately, this country has been and always will be, conservative, and conservatives have always controlled the media and portrayed the gop as the party that most re-affirms american values - free speech, gun rights, christianity, etc. as people tend to have very little interest in politics, other than what they hear for the ten seconds they tune into fox news, naturally the right has the upper hand. now the right is leaning to a new extreme. as always, the public will regret their decision in the end.

 

[william the wie]

The GOP will not be too far behind the Dems is the trip to the shredder. Ever since William Jennings Bryant the GOP has relied on the lunatic left to make their corruption look good.

 

[wyomingpatriot]

you mean when criticizing tax cuts for millionaires and suggesting that sarah palin is a greedy, moronic poster child suddenly makes you a lunatic?

 

[Dreadnaught1968]

you mean when criticizing tax cuts for millionaires and suggesting that sarah palin is a greedy, moronic poster child suddenly makes you a lunatic?

Actually, yes, it does. Especially when we hear it over and over and over again like a broken record. Shows that you have the talking points down pat. Congratulations.

 

[Full-Auto]

you mean when criticizing tax cuts for millionaires and suggesting that sarah palin is a greedy, moronic poster child suddenly makes you a lunatic?

Actually, yes, it does. Especially when we hear it over and over and over again like a broken record. Shows that you have the talking points down pat. Congratulations.

Some Americans have no idea what real equality means.

 

[Sunni Man]

......and conservatives have always controlled the media...........

LOL, son you must live on another planet of you think conservatives control the media!!

 

[Avatar4321]

I don't know. Why do you keep voting for Democrats?

Why do you keep expect politicians to be solving our problems. Maybe we should just focus on how we can fix our problems.

 

[Annie]

and so many fail to recognize that the electorate has changed since 2008. Drastically. Not the far right and not the far left, but the masses in the middle. That is what has both parties aflutter. The next election is but a post in what will be in the future.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Our founders knew that the party system would be the death of us.

 

[goldcatt]

Our founders knew that the party system would be the death of us.

Some did. Some were rabid partisans - although, to be fair that was often as a result of convenience in pursuing personal feuds among themselves rather than any real belief in the political party organization.

I had this conversation on another thread with someone not too long ago. I would submit that association into two or more camps is a natural and normal phenomenon, but that the Founders neither cared whether they were formed nor did they anticipate two all-powerful, formalized, permanent institutions controlling the process. The early parties were more or less fluid things, not the institutionalized behemoths we have today.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Our founders knew that the party system would be the death of us.

Some did. Some were rabid partisans - although, to be fair that was often as a result of convenience in pursuing personal feuds among themselves rather than any real belief in the political party organization.

I had this conversation on another thread with someone not too long ago. I would submit that association into two or more camps is a natural and normal phenomenon, but that the Founders neither cared whether they were formed nor did they anticipate two all-powerful, formalized, permanent institutions controlling the process. The early parties were more or less fluid things, not the institutionalized behemoths we have today.

Jefferson was probably the biggest purveyor of the flawed party system. Interesting on a point that you hit upon and I also believe to be true from what I've read that most of the founders had quarrels with each other, not so much an ideology per se, but from old fights in state assemblies, old rivalries in trade and so on. The governance among the founders was based more on the context of individualism. They didn't have to worry about the populace because most were experts in their collective trade or agrarian lifestyle. Most importantly, they wanted to work within the framework of the constitution they had just signed, not around it, like everyone one does today. Lastly, most lawmakers of that time were pissed when they had to make the ride to convene with their fellow lawmakers. They much preferred their farming or trade to politics.

 

[wyomingpatriot]

explain how men alive in the 18th century have any relevance to the 21st. while we're at it, let's argue that tariffs on prussia and the ottoman empire are also relevant to today. you have no idea what thomas jefferson and the founding fathers really believed, because THEYRE DEAD. theyve been dead a long time, and the words they left behind are completely open to conjecture and interpretation. dumb fucks.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

P

explain how men alive in the 18th century have any relevance to the 21st. while we're at it, let's argue that tariffs on prussia and the ottoman empire are also relevant to today. you have no idea what thomas jefferson and the founding fathers really believed, because THEYRE DEAD. theyve been dead a long time, and the words they left behind are completely open to conjecture and interpretation. dumb fucks.

I'd suggest that you read actual writings and manuscripts by tj, Madison, Adams,Franklin and so on. Your reasoning is somewhat bizarre. It's akin to saying that since Hitler has been dead for so long that we don't know what the hell he was trying to do?! Seriously? Not everything they said is left open to interpretation and whatever is left open to interpretation would never be figured out by our dumbass leaders.

 

[Avatar4321]

explain how men alive in the 18th century have any relevance to the 21st. while we're at it, let's argue that tariffs on prussia and the ottoman empire are also relevant to today. you have no idea what thomas jefferson and the founding fathers really believed, because THEYRE DEAD. theyve been dead a long time, and the words they left behind are completely open to conjecture and interpretation. dumb fucks.

Explain why any sane person would think that knowing our history isnt vital for understanding who and what we are now?

Maybe you should study a little. Then it would become very obvious what relevance they have for today.

Why recreate the wheel when those who have come before us have already proven again and again the way to escape the ugliness that is coming. Yet we ignore them and want to repeat their mistakes.

 

[Avatar4321]

P

explain how men alive in the 18th century have any relevance to the 21st. while we're at it, let's argue that tariffs on prussia and the ottoman empire are also relevant to today. you have no idea what thomas jefferson and the founding fathers really believed, because THEYRE DEAD. theyve been dead a long time, and the words they left behind are completely open to conjecture and interpretation. dumb fucks.

I'd suggest that you read actual writings and manuscripts by tj, Madison, Adams,Franklin and so on. Your reasoning is somewhat bizarre. It's akin to saying that since Hitler has been dead for so long that we don't know what the hell he was trying to do?! Seriously? Not everything they said is left open to interpretation and whatever is left open to interpretation would never be figured out by our dumbass leaders.

You mean actually try to understand someone? But that would mean we would have to admit that we arent the center of the universe. That's just a bit much for many people.