Why do the middle class have less to spend?

[Twofox]

This should be pretty obvious, but no one talks about it. It goes like this:

Why does our money not go as far as it used to? Rising energy prices.

Holy fuck batman! What does the price of oil have to do with anything?

It costs more to ship the goods, which raises the prices of those goods, which makes people pay more, but does not necessarily make more money for the outlets since they don't raise their profit margins very much over time. Therefore the wages they pay don't keep up with the prices they have to charge and still be able to stay in business, which makes the wages not go as far as they used to.

Are corporations greedy? Hell yeah! And CEO's make way too much money, but blaming the rich for the disparity in wages and how far a dollar goes is way off base. Sounds great and too many people believe it, but it just isn't true. The imbalance is there, but not for the reasons everyone is positing them to be caused by.

This message has been brought to you by an independent voter.

I have a better one for you. Who makes up the vast majority of the middle class? Does "baby boomers" ring a bell? They stopped buying, not because they don't have the money but because they don't need anything anymore. They are now downsizing from their homes to their cars to just about everything. For most of them, their kids are on their own and their job is done. They stopped being the driving force behind our economy, and there isn't a damn thing we can do to change that part of the equation.

Nope. According to google search on "Distribution of us population by age 2010" the age groups 15-29 are just as large, or larger than the 45-54 age group which is the largest boomer population age group. Young people buy the new gadgets and technology, games, etc, and typically don't save much money. So putting them to work with good wages will fire up the economy also.

NationMaster - American Population pyramids

 

[rdean]

This should be pretty obvious, but no one talks about it. It goes like this:

Why does our money not go as far as it used to? Rising energy prices.

Holy fuck batman! What does the price of oil have to do with anything?

It costs more to ship the goods, which raises the prices of those goods, which makes people pay more, but does not necessarily make more money for the outlets since they don't raise their profit margins very much over time. Therefore the wages they pay don't keep up with the prices they have to charge and still be able to stay in business, which makes the wages not go as far as they used to.

Are corporations greedy? Hell yeah! And CEO's make way too much money, but blaming the rich for the disparity in wages and how far a dollar goes is way off base. Sounds great and too many people believe it, but it just isn't true. The imbalance is there, but not for the reasons everyone is positing them to be caused by.

This message has been brought to you by an independent voter.

Please explain why CEO's averaged 30 times what the average worker was paid in the 50's, when the economy was booming, and why they are paid 300 to 400 times what the average worker is paid today and why that is good for the economy.

 

[rdean]

This should be pretty obvious, but no one talks about it. It goes like this:

Why does our money not go as far as it used to? Rising energy prices.

Holy fuck batman! What does the price of oil have to do with anything?

It costs more to ship the goods, which raises the prices of those goods, which makes people pay more, but does not necessarily make more money for the outlets since they don't raise their profit margins very much over time. Therefore the wages they pay don't keep up with the prices they have to charge and still be able to stay in business, which makes the wages not go as far as they used to.

Are corporations greedy? Hell yeah! And CEO's make way too much money, but blaming the rich for the disparity in wages and how far a dollar goes is way off base. Sounds great and too many people believe it, but it just isn't true. The imbalance is there, but not for the reasons everyone is positing them to be caused by.

This message has been brought to you by an independent voter.

I have a better one for you. Who makes up the vast majority of the middle class? Does "baby boomers" ring a bell? They stopped buying, not because they don't have the money but because they don't need anything anymore. They are now downsizing from their homes to their cars to just about everything. For most of them, their kids are on their own and their job is done. They stopped being the driving force behind our economy, and there isn't a damn thing we can do to change that part of the equation.

Nope. According to google search on "Distribution of us population by age 2010" the age groups 15-29 are just as large, or larger than the 45-54 age group which is the largest boomer population age group. Young people buy the new gadgets and technology, games, etc, and typically don't save much money. So putting them to work with good wages will fire up the economy also.

NationMaster - American Population pyramids

So you are saying rich people will make jobs? That's great. When?

 

[Twofox]

I have a better one for you. Who makes up the vast majority of the middle class? Does "baby boomers" ring a bell? They stopped buying, not because they don't have the money but because they don't need anything anymore. They are now downsizing from their homes to their cars to just about everything. For most of them, their kids are on their own and their job is done. They stopped being the driving force behind our economy, and there isn't a damn thing we can do to change that part of the equation.

Nope. According to google search on "Distribution of us population by age 2010" the age groups 15-29 are just as large, or larger than the 45-54 age group which is the largest boomer population age group. Young people buy the new gadgets and technology, games, etc, and typically don't save much money. So putting them to work with good wages will fire up the economy also.

NationMaster - American Population pyramids

So you are saying rich people will make jobs? That's great. When?

That's not what I said at all. But while we're at it, as a business owner, if I have to pay more for health care, or taxes, or regulations, and can't hire anyone, then *I* can't create jobs. But I'm not rich, I support other small businesses and when they hurt, I hurt.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

1) NAFTA
2) Insane appetite for crap that makes them borrow money to the point where most of their money pays debt payments.
3) Their ability to borrow more has ended.
4) The bank won't give them an 8th mortgage.
5) Collectively, they choose cheaper foreign goods putting each other out of work all the while wondering where the jobs are.

... and finally...because of inflation and wage stagnation.

 

[rdean]

Your an idiot, they are People. Cooperation's are owned by People. Usually by Millions of Stock Holders, and they have every right to fight for policies that help them do Business in the country that they contribute to.

Hey, stupid...........the people of the corporations get a vote just like everyone else.

When they get to use lobbyists as well, that constitutes a second vote.

The same can be said for unions.

11% of all American workers are in Unions. A little over 6% of American workers in private industry are in unions.

That means for every 100 workers, 6 are in unions. That means for every 500 workers, 30 are in unions.

Republicans moved millions of jobs overseas and want to blame it on unions? I wonder. If you look at the number of union jobs verses the number of jobs Republicans moved overseas under Bush, which is more?

 

[Care4all]

The point of the OP was that high energy prices are the main reason for absic costs rising every year, which translates into the middle class making less and less in a relative way. Everyone blames something else.

Complete horse shit and you know it. The middle class is disapearing due to the plutocratic system we have now. It is not an accident that corps have killed the unions and have stagnated wages for 30 years... American workers are more productive than ever and are raking in record profits for these "too big to fail" companies, but the workers are seeing ZERO of a percentage of the gains from those profits even though they're working harder than ever. From another independent voter....

Corporatrions killed the unions as they were no longer necessary and they overstepped their boundaries. We have HR laws, discrinmination laws, minimum wage laws, osha reguklations....all tro oversee what unions were to oversee. Sadly for unions, the high paying execs of the unions deemed it best to use strong arm tactic (such as strikes) to get the businesses to make decisions that are not in the best interest of the business.

American workers are NOT more productive now...that is a talking point. Technology has made production better...not the workers. A man used to turn a lathe to make fittings...now he pushes a button.

You speak talking points and at the same time show how little yuou really know about the topic.

most of those technology and machine improvements took place decades ago.

you are NOT in the workplace, you sit above it, and it appears you have lost touch with reality.

I can ASSURE YOU that when a corporation takes drastic downsizing, in these hard times, those employees left behind with jobs, are working much harder to produce what they did, and what their counterpart who was downsized did.....

the workers left behind ARE PICKING UP the workload slack of others no longer employed there....with no increase in pay.....I do KNOW this, I've been through it a few times in my lifetime.....and there are true increases in individual productivity....the harder working survive the downsize, and end up increasing their workloads even more....

 

[rdean]

Nope. According to google search on "Distribution of us population by age 2010" the age groups 15-29 are just as large, or larger than the 45-54 age group which is the largest boomer population age group. Young people buy the new gadgets and technology, games, etc, and typically don't save much money. So putting them to work with good wages will fire up the economy also.

NationMaster - American Population pyramids

So you are saying rich people will make jobs? That's great. When?

That's not what I said at all. But while we're at it, as a business owner, if I have to pay more for health care, or taxes, or regulations, and can't hire anyone, then *I* can't create jobs. But I'm not rich, I support other small businesses and when they hurt, I hurt.

If you don't want to pay health care, for clean air and water, infrastructure then China is the place for you. You can get all the slave labor you want. Even better, they put the slaves in clean white dorms so outsiders don't know they're slaves. But you have to put up nets and watch out for "jumpers".

 

[rdean]

Complete horse shit and you know it. The middle class is disapearing due to the plutocratic system we have now. It is not an accident that corps have killed the unions and have stagnated wages for 30 years... American workers are more productive than ever and are raking in record profits for these "too big to fail" companies, but the workers are seeing ZERO of a percentage of the gains from those profits even though they're working harder than ever. From another independent voter....

Corporatrions killed the unions as they were no longer necessary and they overstepped their boundaries. We have HR laws, discrinmination laws, minimum wage laws, osha reguklations....all tro oversee what unions were to oversee. Sadly for unions, the high paying execs of the unions deemed it best to use strong arm tactic (such as strikes) to get the businesses to make decisions that are not in the best interest of the business.

American workers are NOT more productive now...that is a talking point. Technology has made production better...not the workers. A man used to turn a lathe to make fittings...now he pushes a button.

You speak talking points and at the same time show how little yuou really know about the topic.

most of those technology and machine improvements took place decades ago.

you are NOT in the workplace, you sit above it, and it appears you have lost touch with reality.

I can ASSURE YOU that when a corporation takes drastic downsizing, in these hard times, those employees left behind with jobs, are working much harder to produce what they did, and what their counterpart who was downsized did.....

the workers left behind ARE PICKING UP the workload slack of others no longer employed there....with no increase in pay.....I do KNOW this, I've been through it a few times in my lifetime.....and there are true increases in individual productivity....the harder working survive the downsize, and end up increasing their workloads even more....

That's not exactly true. I have a friend who went to California about two years ago to start his own business designing and renovating existing automation.

Using embedded systems instead of PLC means an increase in automation complexity.

Renovating existing automation with not only smarter controls, but modern solenoids, sensors, pressure controls and pneumatic means he has been able to take existing automation and increase cycle time by, in some cases, over 10 to 20 times. In fact, I flew to LA and worked "booth duty" at a trade show right down the street from Disneyland. His was the ONLY booth renovating existing automation. He made over 50 hard contacts and over hundred "good" contracts and actually signed two contracts right there at the show.

The point is, the technology is continuing to evolve. In fact, there are now 3d printers, using the correct material, can make a production ready parts right in your office.

Where workers are needed is to develop those technologies, to service those technologies. To install, to make the parts, shipping, and so on.

This is why education is a needed investment. It's why we need to invite immigrants from other countries with desired qualifications. Only one political party is against those necessary improvements.

 

[Patrick2]

This should be pretty obvious, but no one talks about it. It goes like this:

Why does our money not go as far as it used to? Rising energy prices.

Holy fuck batman! What does the price of oil have to do with anything?

It costs more to ship the goods, which raises the prices of those goods, which makes people pay more, but does not necessarily make more money for the outlets since they don't raise their profit margins very much over time. Therefore the wages they pay don't keep up with the prices they have to charge and still be able to stay in business, which makes the wages not go as far as they used to.

Are corporations greedy? Hell yeah! And CEO's make way too much money, but blaming the rich for the disparity in wages and how far a dollar goes is way off base. Sounds great and too many people believe it, but it just isn't true. The imbalance is there, but not for the reasons everyone is positing them to be caused by.

This message has been brought to you by an independent voter.

Why the hell do some middle class people think they've been ordained by some cosmic law to be and remain in the middle class, as if God smiled upon them the day they were born?

The economics of this country has been declining for a long time and it's not the fault of corporations, it's due to titanic government debt, big taxation, big government spending, big government regulation, bad government schools, bad foreign policy, "affirmative action", ecofascism, a poorly trained labor force, the illegal alien invasion, and many other causes.

 

[rdean]

This should be pretty obvious, but no one talks about it. It goes like this:

Why does our money not go as far as it used to? Rising energy prices.

Holy fuck batman! What does the price of oil have to do with anything?

It costs more to ship the goods, which raises the prices of those goods, which makes people pay more, but does not necessarily make more money for the outlets since they don't raise their profit margins very much over time. Therefore the wages they pay don't keep up with the prices they have to charge and still be able to stay in business, which makes the wages not go as far as they used to.

Are corporations greedy? Hell yeah! And CEO's make way too much money, but blaming the rich for the disparity in wages and how far a dollar goes is way off base. Sounds great and too many people believe it, but it just isn't true. The imbalance is there, but not for the reasons everyone is positing them to be caused by.

This message has been brought to you by an independent voter.

Why the hell do some middle class people think they've been ordained by some cosmic law to be and remain in the middle class, as if God smiled upon them the day they were born?

The economics of this country has been declining for a long time and it's not the fault of corporations, it's due to titanic government debt, big taxation, big government spending, big government regulation, bad government schools, bad foreign policy, "affirmative action", ecofascism, a poorly trained labor force, the illegal alien invasion, and many other causes.

Yea, many other causes, but not the ones you list. You have the right wing religious crowd that dumbed down schools with "magical creation" and "anti science".

You have the super wealthy that spent a fortune buying politicians to change laws and remove regulations so they could scam the American people legally.

Take a look at health care companies. They don't own anything. They don't employ doctors or nurses. They don't make medicine. And yet, health care is 18% of GDP. Not Medicare, but health care. They are middle men only and in it for profit. They get that profit from skimming insurance policies. How many policies does it take for a single $100,000,000.00 CEO bonus? Things like that used to be a "scam", but with regulations gone and laws changed, they aren't now. Medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy.

Republicans are behind all that, not Affirmative Action or immigration. In fact, just recently in Georgia, after all the "anti immigration" hoopla, their crops are rotting in the fields to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, possibly over a billion.

Republicans have their base so well trained, they believe anything they are told to believe. They don't even bother with facts that are so easy to find because they know their base has been indoctrinated against "learning" and "facts".

When I write something like this, they scream liar among other names, but they never prove me wrong. They can't. That's what upsets them so. Truth hurts.

 

[Patrick2]

This should be pretty obvious, but no one talks about it. It goes like this:

Why does our money not go as far as it used to? Rising energy prices.

Holy fuck batman! What does the price of oil have to do with anything?

It costs more to ship the goods, which raises the prices of those goods, which makes people pay more, but does not necessarily make more money for the outlets since they don't raise their profit margins very much over time. Therefore the wages they pay don't keep up with the prices they have to charge and still be able to stay in business, which makes the wages not go as far as they used to.

Are corporations greedy? Hell yeah! And CEO's make way too much money, but blaming the rich for the disparity in wages and how far a dollar goes is way off base. Sounds great and too many people believe it, but it just isn't true. The imbalance is there, but not for the reasons everyone is positing them to be caused by.

This message has been brought to you by an independent voter.

Why the hell do some middle class people think they've been ordained by some cosmic law to be and remain in the middle class, as if God smiled upon them the day they were born?

The economics of this country has been declining for a long time and it's not the fault of corporations, it's due to titanic government debt, big taxation, big government spending, big government regulation, bad government schools, bad foreign policy, "affirmative action", ecofascism, a poorly trained labor force, the illegal alien invasion, and many other causes.

Yea, many other causes, but not the ones you list. You have the right wing religious crowd that dumbed down schools with "magical creation" and "anti science".

Riiiiiiiiiight - a few crackpot chapters in a few books in a few southern school districts has brought the Republic to its knees.

You have the super wealthy that spent a fortune buying politicians to change laws and remove regulations so they could scam the American people legally.

Now you're just spewing leftwing cant so disconnected from reality that a dumb liberal could write a dumb computer program to do it for you.

Take a look at health care companies. They don't own anything. They don't employ doctors or nurses. They don't make medicine. And yet, health care is 18% of GDP. Not Medicare, but health care.

Best healthcare in the world - isn't cheap.

They are middle men only and in it for profit.

One despairs of leftwingbots ever getting their brains around the notion of profit.

Republicans are behind all that, not Affirmative Action or immigration. In fact, just recently in Georgia, after all the "anti immigration" hoopla, their crops are rotting in the fields to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, possibly over a billion.

Yeah, the farmers wanted to break the law hiring illegal aliens, and weren't allowed to. Like saying there's some ready, able and willing bank robbers out there, but their business has collapsed because there are laws against it and a vigilant police force.

blah blah blah koolaid koolaid koolaid

Enough.

 

[Animus]

Production in the US is the highest ever.... WTF

If Production in the US was highest ever, Americans wouldn't settle for min wage jobs.
If Production in the US was highest ever, American households would own more shit that is Made in the US.
If Production in the US was highest ever, there wouldn't be a need for Social/Entitlement Programs.
If Production in the US was highest ever, places like Daytona would still be a vacation hotbed and not a dump.

and so on and so on... GTFOH w/ that bullshit

 

[rdean]

Why the hell do some middle class people think they've been ordained by some cosmic law to be and remain in the middle class, as if God smiled upon them the day they were born?

The economics of this country has been declining for a long time and it's not the fault of corporations, it's due to titanic government debt, big taxation, big government spending, big government regulation, bad government schools, bad foreign policy, "affirmative action", ecofascism, a poorly trained labor force, the illegal alien invasion, and many other causes.

Yea, many other causes, but not the ones you list. You have the right wing religious crowd that dumbed down schools with "magical creation" and "anti science".

Riiiiiiiiiight - a few crackpot chapters in a few books in a few southern school districts has brought the Republic to its knees.

(A FEW southern states? Hilarious)

Now you're just spewing leftwing cant so disconnected from reality that a dumb liberal could write a dumb computer program to do it for you.



Best healthcare in the world - isn't cheap.

(If people have no access to it, is it really that good? Saying it's the best doesn't magically make it the best. Besides, how much more does "emergency room" care cost US taxpayers?)

One despairs of leftwingbots ever getting their brains around the notion of profit.

Republicans are behind all that, not Affirmative Action or immigration. In fact, just recently in Georgia, after all the "anti immigration" hoopla, their crops are rotting in the fields to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, possibly over a billion.

Yeah, the farmers wanted to break the law hiring illegal aliens, and weren't allowed to. Like saying there's some ready, able and willing bank robbers out there, but their business has collapsed because there are laws against it and a vigilant police force.

(If you bothered to check out the story, dumb ass, you will find that not all "migrant workers" are "illegal". )

blah blah blah koolaid koolaid koolaid

Enough.

Funny, your attempt at "spin" was pretty lame. You didn't disprove anything I said. You just tried to "spin" it and no one got dizzy. Fail. Try again.

 

[ClosedCaption]

The question is: why do the rich think they have a right to the middle classes money?

 

[ABikerSailor]

This should be pretty obvious, but no one talks about it. It goes like this:

Why does our money not go as far as it used to? Rising energy prices.

Holy fuck batman! What does the price of oil have to do with anything?

It costs more to ship the goods, which raises the prices of those goods, which makes people pay more, but does not necessarily make more money for the outlets since they don't raise their profit margins very much over time. Therefore the wages they pay don't keep up with the prices they have to charge and still be able to stay in business, which makes the wages not go as far as they used to.

Are corporations greedy? Hell yeah! And CEO's make way too much money, but blaming the rich for the disparity in wages and how far a dollar goes is way off base. Sounds great and too many people believe it, but it just isn't true. The imbalance is there, but not for the reasons everyone is positing them to be caused by.

This message has been brought to you by an independent voter.

I have a better one for you. Who makes up the vast majority of the middle class? Does "baby boomers" ring a bell? They stopped buying, not because they don't have the money but because they don't need anything anymore. They are now downsizing from their homes to their cars to just about everything. For most of them, their kids are on their own and their job is done. They stopped being the driving force behind our economy, and there isn't a damn thing we can do to change that part of the equation.

Hey stupid........"baby boomer" refers to one's generation.

Middle class refers to one's economic situation.

Not all baby boomers are middle class, some are quite wealthy. Matter of fact, most of the CEO's of Fortune 500 companies ARE baby boomers.

 

[BDBoop]

This should be pretty obvious, but no one talks about it. It goes like this:

Why does our money not go as far as it used to? Rising energy prices.

Holy fuck batman! What does the price of oil have to do with anything?

It costs more to ship the goods, which raises the prices of those goods, which makes people pay more, but does not necessarily make more money for the outlets since they don't raise their profit margins very much over time. Therefore the wages they pay don't keep up with the prices they have to charge and still be able to stay in business, which makes the wages not go as far as they used to.

Are corporations greedy? Hell yeah! And CEO's make way too much money, but blaming the rich for the disparity in wages and how far a dollar goes is way off base. Sounds great and too many people believe it, but it just isn't true. The imbalance is there, but not for the reasons everyone is positing them to be caused by.

This message has been brought to you by an independent voter.

Please explain why CEO's averaged 30 times what the average worker was paid in the 50's, when the economy was booming, and why they are paid 300 to 400 times what the average worker is paid today and why that is good for the economy.

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Twofox]

So you are saying rich people will make jobs? That's great. When?

That's not what I said at all. But while we're at it, as a business owner, if I have to pay more for health care, or taxes, or regulations, and can't hire anyone, then *I* can't create jobs. But I'm not rich, I support other small businesses and when they hurt, I hurt.

If you don't want to pay health care, for clean air and water, infrastructure then China is the place for you. You can get all the slave labor you want. Even better, they put the slaves in clean white dorms so outsiders don't know they're slaves. But you have to put up nets and watch out for "jumpers".

Once again, how you got that out of what I said befuddles the mind. You've assumed that since I'm a business owner I'm an evil greedy person, when in reality I'm just trying to survive, and may not be able to do that in this environment. I have no employees and work out of my home. I would love to hire folks and give them great benefits AND great wages. But you have no idea what my mgmt style is or what I would do. You ASSUME. Go troll somewhere else.

 

[initforme]

The reason the middle class has less to spend is because they are the ones counted on to kick in more to help the country. It isnt the rich or poor who will end up paying more. It never is. Wages are going down, not up. The middle class is getting smaller and smaller.