Why Do The Liberals Fear The Tea Party Movement

[Richard-H]

What is it about the Tea Party? I hear faux racism...I hear faux discrimination.
I just don't understand. Thoughts?

Meister, first, for the purpose of clarification, your term "liberal" I think we can safely assume, is used in the context of American progressivism/liberalism and not in its classical context. Classical liberalism (Wikipedia is a good source here) bears a strikingly familiar resemblance to American Conservatism, especially that of the American founding fathers, but no need to get too deep into the weeds here.

I have heard some people say that, as young children, we all start out as liberals. This is not meant as a slur to American Liberalism. As children we all are beholden, initially to those that rear us. In fact the success of parents, in large part, is measured in their ability to successfully wean their charges from the dependence they are accustomed to. Unfortunately, the older the individual becomes the more difficult it is for it to adjust to a state of independence. It becomes even worse when a central government assumes the role of parent and this type of relationship is continued, not only through the individual's life, but over several generations. The classical examples can be found in the U.S. and Europe by examining the American Welfare System and French society in general. The transitional difficulty is manifest in the French's unions' present difficulty in accepting a mere 2 year increase in the retirement age (something U.S. citizens accepted a number of years ago with little difficulty).

But we in America are fast approaching the French problem because of the power that has been afforded to the Unions representing government workers. There is a whole thread or two that might be devoted to this subject, but the point is that both government workers (state and federal) have become dependent on our government for very comfortable incomes, benefits, and retirement. These are all dependent on the largess of the politicians that run our government. Problem is it is not the wealth of the politicians that is being redistributed. It is that of taxpayers like you, me, and others like the Tea Party. There is now an effort by ordinary citizens like the Tea Party to rein in the spending. One can argue whether or not the T-Party is grassroots or Astroturf but that is a sideshow to what is actually happening in the country now which is simply citizens attempting to stand "athwart history yelling, STOP" the spending.

Conservatives/Tea Party types feel that the spending has us on the one way road to perdition. However, there is a problem with cutting spending, at least for Democrats and the left. The whole reason for being of the present Democratic Party is to obtain and keep political power. If not in power they cannot assure its patrons (NAACP, ACORN, SEIU, AFSCME, NEA, AFT...) that they will continue to receive the government largess that sustains them. If those depending on such government lose members and, more importantly, the revenue (from their union dues that are then contributed to the Dems) then the cycle is broken and the Dems' power slips away initiating a cascade effect of ever decreasing revenue and power.

So, what you have seen with the name calling, lying about, and generally nasty stuff has been drastic last minute scurrying around to discredit anyone that might interfere with the Dems cash cow cycle. At this point we should point out that there are many liberals out there that truly believe and keep the faith. These are the ones that us conservatives feel are worth trying to bring over to our side. However, all we can do is lead them to the fountain of information; they must be willing to partake voluntarily. But we should not kid ourselves that those dependent on the current government/Union/Democrat cycle are worth any such effort.

When you find people who call others names you probably have not found an open mind tolerant enough to listen to any argument whose conclusion might question their beliefs. They will say the same of us when our argument proves them wrong. However, what conservative needs an argument when we have the example of France?

JM

It is abundantly clear that you have no respect whatsoever for working people. A an arrogant distain for working people who stand up for themselves.

It is also clear that you like to play the "French card", oh the French are all bad, anything French is wrong. In fact, the French are our greatest allies historically, espouse political values closest to the values of the American founding fathers- in some ways more so than Americans. After all wasn't it Thomas Paine that authored the French "Rights of Man"?

In fact you are entirely ignorant (or shall we say, just plain full oof shit?), when you compare the American Conservatives to the founding fathers. NOT!

The current American Conservative movement (as it has for the past 50 years), represents the philosohy and interests of the British Conservatives and Europe Royalty.

This is especially evident in the anti-government, pro-wealthy sentiment of the the American Conservative movement. Since the inception of modern governement, the Europen Royalty had yearned for and worked for the destruction of these governements, so that they can resume absolute totalitarian power - especially that of absolute economic control.

While you accuse the Democrats of existing for a tiny group of patrons, each and everyone of these patrons represents the interest of common Americans. It is also true that the Democrats have supported the interests of the vast majority of Americans - through labor laws, Union support, Social Security, Medicare, industrial regulation, consumer protections. etc...

In fact, the Democrats have been the party "by the people and for the people".

But, I'm sure that you have issue with that very concept.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Holy Shit! It's a national crisis when a President gets a BJ, but invading a country based on false premises and killing 600,000 innocents civilians is perfectly O.K.?

You have some fucking standards!

What are you, a satanist?

What are you, an idiot?

Who said invading a country, and killing anyone is perfectly OK?

Try to fucking focus, moron.

Support for it is a good indication

Do you really want to go there? Who supported what?

 

[Richard-H]

I hope that none of you wingnuts misconstrue my not continuing this discussion as not being capable of responding. I fact, it's time for me to go to bed.

I WORK FOR A LIVING!

 

[Stephanie]

LOL, the Democrats USED to be the party for the people.

They STOPPED being that 50 or so years ago.

Now they are the Party of the Unions, Acorn, the Black Panthers, the Rev. Wrights of our country and the Eleitiest Democrats in POWER now.

People who are Democrats better wake up soon and SEE THIS.

They don't have your interest at heart, if they did, the Obama wouldn't be pushing for Amnesty for 20 to 30 million Illegal Immigrants with the American citizens at this time seeing over 15% unemployment.

wake up people

 

[Meister]

O.K, you want to "Reform" government? That line is as old as the hills! We already have the most scrutinized government in the world. Holy Shit! A President can't even get a blow job fron an intern without it causing a national crisis!.

Yeah, every President should be able to get a casual BJ from an intern.




Heaven forbid Higher Standards.

Holy Shit! It's a national crisis when a President gets a BJ, but invading a country based on false premises and killing 600,000 innocents civilians is perfectly O.K.?

You have some fucking standards!

What are you, a satanist?

Actually we should hold our presidents to a higher standard don't you think, than that of a "john" getting a cheap thrill. 600,000? In a pigs eye, that was proven to be way over blown.
But, you just keep drinking that orange Kool-Aid of yours, and listen to your talking points from the libs...it makes for a good message board.

 

[Londoner]

Because the logic of the Tea Party -- i.e., "our country has been stolen by an evil force" -- leads to violence, e.g., "we are morally obligated to stop the evil force which has stolen our country".

The Tea Party is a poor copy of Germany's völkisch movement, which was based on nativist bigotry, e.g., "we are real Americans, they are not. They must be stopped".

(Violent "homelander" movements are typically wrapped in messianic delusion, e.g., "we are the chosen people, doing God's work - fighting evil")

If the economy gets worse and America gets attacked again and the Tea Party gets a charismatic leader, people are going to wake up in a much different country.

History always repeats itself. God Help Us.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhjg2W7vlMc[/ame]

 

[Meister]

Because the logic of the Tea Party -- i.e., "our country has been stolen by an evil force" -- leads to violence, e.g., "we are morally obligated to stop the evil force which has stolen our country".

The Tea Party is a poor copy of Germany's völkisch movement, which was based on nativist bigotry, e.g., "we are real Americans, they are not. They must be stopped".

(Violent "homelander" movements are typically wrapped in messianic delusion, e.g., "we are the chosen people, doing God's work - fighting evil")

If the economy gets worse and America gets attacked again and the Tea Party gets a charismatic leader, people are going to wake up in a much different country.

History always repeats itself. God Help Us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhjg2W7vlMc

You equate the Tea Party to violence? That's a stretch, a lot more violence in France with raising the retirement age to 62 don't you think?

 

[Stephanie]

Because the logic of the Tea Party -- i.e., "our country has been stolen by an evil force" -- leads to violence, e.g., "we are morally obligated to stop the evil force which has stolen our country".

The Tea Party is a poor copy of Germany's völkisch movement, which was based on nativist bigotry, e.g., "we are real Americans, they are not. They must be stopped".

(Violent "homelander" movements are typically wrapped in messianic delusion, e.g., "we are the chosen people, doing God's work - fighting evil")

If the economy gets worse and America gets attacked again and the Tea Party gets a charismatic leader, people are going to wake up in a much different country.

History always repeats itself. God Help Us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhjg2W7vlMc

oh brother.

 

[Samson]

Because the logic of the Tea Party -- i.e., "our country has been stolen by an evil force" -- leads to violence, e.g., "we are morally obligated to stop the evil force which has stolen our country".

The Tea Party is a poor copy of Germany's völkisch movement, which was based on nativist bigotry, e.g., "we are real Americans, they are not. They must be stopped".

(Violent "homelander" movements are typically wrapped in messianic delusion, e.g., "we are the chosen people, doing God's work - fighting evil")

If the economy gets worse and America gets attacked again and the Tea Party gets a charismatic leader, people are going to wake up in a much different country.

History always repeats itself. God Help Us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhjg2W7vlMc

You equate the Tea Party to violence? That's a stretch, a lot more violence in France with raising the retirement age to 62 don't you think?

What's the matter?


You one of THEM!!!







How fuckin' absurd.

 

[Londoner]

Fair.

Clarification.

I don't think they are violent for the sake of violence. I think many are good hearted people who are in a state of raw fear (which fear could eventually be triggered by economic desperation and another attack).

I think they are violent in the face of what they deeply believe is an evil opposition.

Once you convince good people that something is evil, their capacity for violence goes up.

Once you convince good people that African Americans are taxonomically closer to animals than humans, you create the conditions for slavery.

Once you convince good people that Jews are evil, you create the conditions for the holocaust.

The Tea Party sees an evil opposition.

 

[Samson]

The Tea Party sees an evil opposition.

Who?

 

[Meister]

Fair.

Clarification.

I don't think they are violent for the sake of violence. I think many are good hearted people who are in a state of raw fear (which could eventually be triggered).

I think they are violent in the face of a what they deeply believe is an evil opposition.

Once you convince good people that something is evil, their capacity for violence goes up.

Once you convince good people that African Americans are taxonomically closer to animals than humans, you create the conditions for slavery.

Once you convince good people that Jews are evil, you create the conditions for the holocaust.

The Tea Party sees an evil opposition.

You've been listening and watching too much left leaning MSM. You don't have a clue what the real Tea Party is about Londoner.

 

[Meister]

Because the logic of the Tea Party -- i.e., "our country has been stolen by an evil force" -- leads to violence, e.g., "we are morally obligated to stop the evil force which has stolen our country".

The Tea Party is a poor copy of Germany's völkisch movement, which was based on nativist bigotry, e.g., "we are real Americans, they are not. They must be stopped".

(Violent "homelander" movements are typically wrapped in messianic delusion, e.g., "we are the chosen people, doing God's work - fighting evil")

If the economy gets worse and America gets attacked again and the Tea Party gets a charismatic leader, people are going to wake up in a much different country.

History always repeats itself. God Help Us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhjg2W7vlMc

You equate the Tea Party to violence? That's a stretch, a lot more violence in France with raising the retirement age to 62 don't you think?

What's the matter?


You one of THEM!!!







How fuckin' absurd.

Not one of them. But, I do understand them and their frustrations.

 

[Londoner]

You've been listening and watching too much left leaning MSM. You don't have a clue what the real Tea Party is about Londoner.

You might be correct that I don't understand the Tea Party. FYI: I'm "ok" with small government libertarianism; in fact, I think it should be a part of the national dialogue. I have a dog-eared copy of "The Road to Serfdom" in my library.

I'm commenting on the notion of revanchism within the Republican party, i.e., the notion that the country has been co-opted by a shadowy evil force (e.g., communism, liberalism, feminism, atheism, black panthers, baby killers, illegals, gays, sin, porn, drugs, etc., etc . . . the full pantheon of never-ending politically exploited demons who are stealing the Real America..."borders, language, culture"). This strain runs from McCarthy's black lists to Nixon's "Liberal Jewish Media" to Bush's "evil doers", culminating in the Tea Party's extreme anti-liberal, anti-government hysteria. The central theme is that the same old evil contagion has reached Washington and stolen the country. Don't they get it? There is no government. Big Business owns and staffs government. Washington didn't fall to socialists. It fell to monopolists, or do you think lobbyists don't want a return on their investment?

Socialism? Not even close; we have the opposite: big business has paid Washington to disenfranchise workers and ship jobs overseas = lower labor costs.

Will someone explain to the Tea Party that the workers don't own the modes of production. To the contrary, wages and benefits have fallen off the face of the earth because government has been purchased by the "owners".

Regardless, The Tea Party feels/looks/smells like the same old machine politics using the same old culture war to agitate the serfs into voting against their economic interests (old, old, old)

In 2012, when the GOP takes Washington back, the Tea Party will be distracted with color coded "terrorism" (again) -- AND AGAIN we will see the same old messianic, us/them, "war for civilization" which politicians use to move the budget in preferred directions.

old old old

yawn

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Because the logic of the Tea Party -- i.e., "our country has been stolen by an evil force" -- leads to violence, e.g., "we are morally obligated to stop the evil force which has stolen our country".

The Tea Party is a poor copy of Germany's völkisch movement, which was based on nativist bigotry, e.g., "we are real Americans, they are not. They must be stopped".

(Violent "homelander" movements are typically wrapped in messianic delusion, e.g., "we are the chosen people, doing God's work - fighting evil")

If the economy gets worse and America gets attacked again and the Tea Party gets a charismatic leader, people are going to wake up in a much different country.

History always repeats itself. God Help Us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhjg2W7vlMc

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhjg2W7vlMc[/ame]
You do realize your video is a joke.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FM_ezyIcAU&feature=grec_index[/ame]

 

[Annie]

Fair.

Clarification.

I don't think they are violent for the sake of violence. I think many are good hearted people who are in a state of raw fear (which fear could eventually be triggered by economic desperation and another attack).

I think they are violent in the face of what they deeply believe is an evil opposition.

Once you convince good people that something is evil, their capacity for violence goes up.

Once you convince good people that African Americans are taxonomically closer to animals than humans, you create the conditions for slavery.

Once you convince good people that Jews are evil, you create the conditions for the holocaust.

The Tea Party sees an evil opposition.

The only 'fear' you'll notice within the tea parties is regarding politicians of both parties. Fear would be the wrong word, insert contempt. Contempt at their arrogance, wastefulness, and condescension. Fear? The only fear here is not about Muslims, Hispanics, Blacks, nope, it's coming from the politicians on just how long the people will keep up this kind of scrutiny and action.

 

[The Rabbi]

But we in America are fast approaching the French problem because of the power that has been afforded to the Unions representing government workers.

That's a fallacy. The French have a retirement age of 60, paternity and maternity leave, a full month for baby care after the birth of a child, a full month vacation when you start employment, strictly enforced 35 hour work weeks, employer provided child care, and a host of other benefits for their average workers. I know this because we recently merged with a French company.

My own work week ranges between 40 and 70 hours. I work 6 days a week..most weeks of the year. After 13 years I get a 4 week vacation (it started at 1 week) that I must schedule a year in advance and 3 personal days. That's along with 5 sick days.

I don't think I am atypical.

Actually you proved his statement correct.
The French just this week passed an increase in the retirement age (from 60 to 62) because their gov't is essentially bankrupt, with high debt, stagnant GDP, and high structural joblessness.
People think gov't mandates on business are free. This is exactly the problem. This is what the Tea Party is railing against.

 

[CurveLight]

What is it about the Tea Party? I hear faux racism...I hear faux discrimination.
I just don't understand. Thoughts?

There is a mentality out there that is distrustful of any large group of people engaging in something not sanctioned (and taxed) by the government. Remember that nancy pelosi's first reaction to the Tea Party was to suggest it was a plot by the GOP ("astro-turf"). She simply couldn't believe that people could spontaneously come together like that.
Once it became apparent that it was not astro turf, the libs went about trying to delegitimate it. So the attributed the worst aspects of American history to a group of basically middle-class Americans. They do not believe power resides in the people and so when reminded of that they must deny it any way they can.

TP was not formed out of a vision of unity but mainly as a response to obushama's election. This was not a spontaneously ignited group of local gone mogul and without funding by key groups and heavy promotion by mouthpieces such as Fox this thread wouldn't exist.

The Guardian

The billionaire Koch brothers’ war against Obama : The New Yorker

Im kinda hoping the info in those links are ignored because if they get addressed it will completely shatter my ego on being able to predict how certain camps ignore info they cannot reconcile.

 

[Stephanie]

What is it about the Tea Party? I hear faux racism...I hear faux discrimination.
I just don't understand. Thoughts?

There is a mentality out there that is distrustful of any large group of people engaging in something not sanctioned (and taxed) by the government. Remember that nancy pelosi's first reaction to the Tea Party was to suggest it was a plot by the GOP ("astro-turf"). She simply couldn't believe that people could spontaneously come together like that.
Once it became apparent that it was not astro turf, the libs went about trying to delegitimate it. So the attributed the worst aspects of American history to a group of basically middle-class Americans. They do not believe power resides in the people and so when reminded of that they must deny it any way they can.

TP was not formed out of a vision of unity but mainly as a response to obushama's election. This was not a spontaneously ignited group of local gone mogul and without funding by key groups and heavy promotion by mouthpieces such as Fox this thread wouldn't exist.

The Guardian

The billionaire Koch brothers’ war against Obama : The New Yorker

Im kinda hoping the info in those links are ignored because if they get addressed it will completely shatter my ego on being able to predict how certain camps ignore info they cannot reconcile.

well certainly if the GAURDIAN and the NEW YORKER says it's true, than it damn sure must be..

 

[Titanic Sailor]

so when Obama gave at least 80 billion to big pharmaceutical and hundreds of billions to the insurance industry with the rip-off Obamacare, and TARP, he wasn't catering to Wall Street. If Bush tried all of that , you'd have an aneurysm.

Actually, looks like you already are.