Why do the Democrats keep saying the Republicans want to end medicare or S.S.

[Chris]

The Republicans want to privatize Social Security, so their Wall Street buddies can get their hands on all that delicious retirement money.

 

[Chris]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

Conservative Republicans never did want Social Security, and now think they can convert it to a giant 401(k) plan. (White House memo on Social Security privatization) The current strategy was developed in 1982 primarily by the libertarian Cato Institute which opposes almost all government programs. Gingrich recently explained it as "shifting fundamentally all Social Security retirement benefits to the personal accounts over the long run." Bush has pushed this strategy forward with by hyping a non-existent crisis which Cato said would be needed to sell privatization, and through his 2001 privatisation commission.

Bush's Plan to Privatize Social Security, Bush Social Security Plan

I wish my contributions were in a 401K. 12% of my income for decades.
I could get twice the annual benefit and have hundreds of thousands to leave to my kids.
And I wouldn't have to depend on the assclowns in DC.

Modern day conservatism is the political codification of selfishness.

 

[ShackledNation]

Conservative Republicans never did want Social Security, and now think they can convert it to a giant 401(k) plan. (White House memo on Social Security privatization) The current strategy was developed in 1982 primarily by the libertarian Cato Institute which opposes almost all government programs. Gingrich recently explained it as "shifting fundamentally all Social Security retirement benefits to the personal accounts over the long run." Bush has pushed this strategy forward with by hyping a non-existent crisis which Cato said would be needed to sell privatization, and through his 2001 privatisation commission.

Bush's Plan to Privatize Social Security, Bush Social Security Plan

I wish my contributions were in a 401K. 12% of my income for decades.
I could get twice the annual benefit and have hundreds of thousands to leave to my kids.
And I wouldn't have to depend on the assclowns in DC.

Modern day conservatism is the political codification of selfishness.

It's selfish to leave money to your kids and support yourself rather than demanding everyone else subsidize you? Interesting definition of selfish.

 

[Full-Auto]

The Republicans want to privatize Social Security, so their Wall Street buddies can get their hands on all that delicious retirement money.

Is that why many work in Obumbles admin?

 

[asaratis]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

Simple answer...liberals will demonize conservatives any way they possibly can.

Example: Conservatives want to cut the fraudulent payments out of Medicare. Liberals do not. So liberals tell people that the conservatives want to cut Medicare. It has a bit of truth to it, but totally misrepresents the conservatives and paints them in a bad light, making people more likely to vote liberal.

On other issues, conservatives may do similar things to liberals...stretching the truth just enough to make a good thing look bad. It's all a game of lies and misrepresentation.

Think TERM LIMITS!!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

Because they have to lie.

Look at what Obama admitted with Social Security, it's BROKE!!!!!!!!! You think the truth works? Dems want to pull the entire country down, they're not a Party with America's best interest at heart

 

[Wacky Quacky]

The general welfare clause refers to the intent of enumerated powers, and is not a power in itself. For example, Congress can only levy taxes "that provide for the general welfare and common defence" and cannot levy taxes with the intent of, say, committing genocide. If "to provide for the general welfare" was interpreted to mean the government can do anything it claims provides for the general welfare, then the enumerated powers are redundant and the Constitution useless. It renders the idea of limited government meaningless.

Ding Ding Ding!! We have a winner!

The one problem with viewing "General Welfare" as a power is who gets to decide what constitutes "General Welfare"? By the definition Democrats have presented if Republicans make up some crap story about why shutting down all unions is for the "General Welfare", then they would have the full right to do it. Or, if they can bullshit their way into making people think that shopping only at Wal-Mart is for the "General Welfare", then they can mandate that people only shop at Wal-Mart.

It's a horribly slippery slope that trashes the constitution and leaves in place a system of "So long as you get some people to believe you, it magically becomes legal".

Republicans need to keep an exceptionally close eye on their own with this too. The fact that almost no Republican in office has challenged this notion means they want this power too. I wonder how that would sit with Democrats though? Knowing that a precedent they set forth which grants unheard of power, gets to be used/abused by Republicans as well.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The Republicans want to privatize Social Security, so their Wall Street buddies can get their hands on all that delicious retirement money.

What retirement money? Its all gone!

There's nothing in the Trust Fund!

You guys lost 100% of it! Spent it all!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Why do the Democrats keep saying the Republicans want to end medicare or S.S.

Because Republicans do want to end Medicare as we know it and turn it into a voucher system in which seniors would be left to the mercy of the private insurance market. That is a fact.

Better to be in a system certain to go broke just like Soc Security.

Don't every try to do anything for yourself, better to let the government decide for you

 

[Wacky Quacky]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

I'm getting a little tired of hearing this "won't effect 55 and older" nonsense. That has very little to do with why Democrats hate the plan, they understand that point of the Ryan Plan very well, and you can't say they don't understand it just because of that.

Can Republicans please debate the other issues the Democrats have with the plan and drop the stupid ass "55 and older" crap? It gets really old when every response to concerns over the plan are met with "But it won't affect anyone 55 or older". Yeah, I get that part, now what about the part of insurance companies refusing to cover people?

 

[Charles_Main]

Again for your Liberal Idiots that do not even know how to read the Constitution. The so called General Welfare clause is actually just one statement in the PREAMBLE to the constitution.

Well, that's embarrassing. The general welfare also appears in Article I, Section 8 ("The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;"). That's generally what people are referring to. Though the preamble is lovely, too.

And is it your claim, that even though we had no modern Social Welfare Programs for over 125 Years, that the intention of the founders with those 2 words was to be interpreted to mean a welfare state?

You guys are aware that the word welfare does not only mean social welfare programs right. Before those even existed it simply meant well being.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

This is totally a false statement.

If it were a false statement, the most vigorous defense of Ryan's proposal wouldn't be:

Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above.

Folks 55 or above get Medicare, folks below 55 don't. The gamble with using this as a defense is that while Ryan and his acolytes hope it keeps present-day seniors from deserting the Republicans, it also concedes the fundamental point that they continue to deny. Pick your poison, I suppose.

Yes, better to take the 100% certainty that Medicare will be as broke as Social Security

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Social Security is already bankrupt and what's the Dems plan? Blame Boooosh and keep punting

 

[Greenbeard]

And is it your claim, that even though we had no modern Social Welfare Programs for over 125 Years, that the intention of the founders with those 2 words was to be interpreted to mean a welfare state?

I think my claim was very clear: your rant against "Liberal Idiots that do not even know how to read the Constitution" because they don't understand that the General Welfare Clause is "just one statement in the PREAMBLE" (it isn't, that phrase refers to a piece of Article I, Section 8) should leave you feeling embarrassed, perhaps even apologetic. At the very least you should be trying to back that foot out of your mouth.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

One wonders if the OP is an apparatchik, a functionary of movement conservatism - in which case he is consciously repeating the lie that the GOP is saving the Big Three. This lie is aimed at poor voters and seniors who believe the conservative party is going to conserve the America of the 50s, when hard working Americans could look forward to a retirement that was far better than their Soviet counterparts, whose government left the bedraggled masses in total poverty. (The Soviets set up an economy which gave all the power to the wealthy few)

Or,

Is the OP one of the dupes that Thomas Frank speaks of in "What's The Matter with Kansas"? - a book about how corporations & the ultra wealthy created "backlash culture" to fool poor people into voting against their economic interests. This culture is symbolized by the woman who famously screamed "get your government hands off my medicare". The point of FOX News and Talk Radio is to draft the non-wealthy into the movement. (The wealthy don't need to be drafted because they have an economic incentive to support programs which concentrate wealth and political power)

Either way, if the OP read Grover Norquist, he would realize that the new GOP has very specific plans to end these programs - which programs allowed the postwar middle class to buy more goods - which lead to the most powerful consumption economy on earth. FYI: did you see what happened when Reagan started to tinker with the middle class entitlement system and the cost of labor? The Middle Class lost purchasing power. And how did the Reagan Revolution respond to the loss of middle class purchasing power? It created a credit and debt economy to sustain consumption. America went on 30 year bubble-&-credit binge to make up for the fact that the old drivers of consumption -- wages, benefits, entitlements -- had been destroyed in order to give more money to the ultra wealthy. Indeed, we put consumption and the middle class on Master Cards and Visas. We did this to cover up the fact that the money was not trickling down as promised.

America swallowed poison in 1980.

(psst: If you undermine the things which enable middle class spending, you kill the economy)

(psst: Reaganomics does not get the concept of consumer demand, nor why you need a solvent underclass to buy things. Entitlements and easy access to affordable health care & public universities are not hand-outs, rather, they enable poor people to spend and pump money into the economy)

(Without financially healthy consumers -- without the historic demand created by the postwar New Deal policies -- the capitalist won't add jobs . . . no matter how many tax breaks you give him)

Welcome to the end. The poison we swallowed in 1980 is finally taking effect.

(morons. you were duped by people who let corporations roll the country)

"(psst: Reaganomics does not get the concept of consumer demand, nor why you need a solvent underclass to buy things. Entitlements and easy access to affordable health care & public universities are not hand-outs, rather, they enable poor people to spend and pump money into the economy)"

Cut everyone a check for $100,000 and don't worry about where you'll borrow the money or how you'll pay it back, the economy will boom overnight.

It's all about consumption, don't worry about production.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That is what 'privatization' will do to social security, medicare, education and the government. They want to privatize every thing. And you know as well as I that it will end those programs. The government is the only business that can run these programs without making a profit.
Some people who work low wage jobs may not pay enough into the program to get a living benefit out of it and do you think privatization will give them a living benenfit? The government does and can.

You know Social Security is broke, right?

 

[shintao]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

Yep, those socialist Germans have full wage retirements, and don't spend their lives worrying about 401ks, investments, or medical expenses leaving them broke, and all that bullshit. of Course Socialism is a bad thing.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

ya.... whatever you say.

isn't that kool aid a little overly sweet?

the right has been trying to destroy social security and medicare since roosevelt.

here's a clue... prior to social security, 50% of senior citizens lived below the poverty line.

and a little more information for low information voters like you... a voucher system that doesn't give the elderly sufficient funds to pay for health insurance OR health care isn't adequate. So while you're collecting those federal checks your husband earned, perhaps you want to think a little before supporting a plan that would hurt people who aren't getting those federal checks.

Social Security is broke, you need to keep up on current events

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

Yep, those socialist Germans have full wage retirements, and don't spend their lives worrying about 401ks, investments, or medical expenses leaving them broke, and all that bullshit. of Course Socialism is a bad thing.

Our GDP per capita is 32% higher than theirs.

 

[shintao]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

Yep, those socialist Germans have full wage retirements, and don't spend their lives worrying about 401ks, investments, or medical expenses leaving them broke, and all that bullshit. of Course Socialism is a bad thing.

Our GDP per capita is 32% higher than theirs.

And you still don't have full wage retirements and full medical care!!! LMAO!!! Oh, you do have trillions of debt and a failed capitalist failed system.....................