Why do the Democrats keep saying the Republicans want to end medicare or S.S.

[WillowTree]

This is totally a false statement.

If it were a false statement, the most vigorous defense of Ryan's proposal wouldn't be:

Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above.

Folks 55 or above get Medicare, folks below 55 don't. The gamble with using this as a defense is that while Ryan and his acolytes hope it keeps present-day seniors from deserting the Republicans, it also concedes the fundamental point that they continue to deny. Pick your poison, I suppose.

That is the sleaziest part of Ryans plan. He knew older Americans would retaliate against Republicans if they pulled their Medicare. He thought they wouldn't give a shit about his plan if it didn't apply to them. He also thought younger Americans are too distracted to care about Medical care 20 years from now

He was wrong

They aren't debating the Ryan plan.

 

[WillowTree]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

ya.... whatever you say.

isn't that kool aid a little overly sweet?

the right has been trying to destroy social security and medicare since roosevelt.

here's a clue... prior to social security, 50% of senior citizens lived below the poverty line.

where will they be when the nation is bankrupt? in yer basement?

 

[WillowTree]

The solution to the Medicare problem lies in reducing the cost of healthcare. The increase in the cost of healthcare in the US has been rising at 6 and 7% for years well above the increase in personal income. For seniors who are mostly on fixed income, healthcare is well beyond their reach without Medicare. Not only are the costs rising for current services but everyday we see new life saving treatments which cost more than most anyone can afford to pay. Unless we reduce the cost of delivery of healthcare, we will not solve the Medicare problem.

The Ryan plan slowly raises the cost of healthcare for new retirees under 55 to a point that they will not be able to afford it. Then what happens? Enrollment in Medicaid starts increasing. The result being you are transferring cost from one entitlement to another.

News Flash!!!!! They aren't debating the Ryan plan.

 

[rdean]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

ya.... whatever you say.

isn't that kool aid a little overly sweet?

the right has been trying to destroy social security and medicare since roosevelt.

here's a clue... prior to social security, 50% of senior citizens lived below the poverty line.

where will they be when the nation is bankrupt? in yer basement?

So you are saying "screw the elderly"?

 

[WillowTree]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

You are wrong. Medicare is a government program to help the elderly. When I was a kid, there were always stories in the news about the elderly living on cat food or dog food. Health care companies don't want to insure them because it's expensive.

How many insurance policies does it take to give the CEO of Cigna or Aetna a $100,000,000.00 bonus? They won't "waste" that money on "old people".

So in the Ryan Plan (now the Republican Plan) the elderly would be given a few thousand dollars and told to "go buy insurance". Only, it's not enough money and no one will sell them insurance. That's the facts. We've been down this road already, so we know where it leads. If you don't mind the suffering of elderly Americans, which many Republicans don't, then stick to your guns to stick it to elderly Americans. There's always the emergency room at 10 to 100 times the cost. A bill WE pay. We may pay it anyway, but not at that high rate.

News Flash! They aren't debating the Ryan plan.

 

[rightwinger]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan on wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

The problem with old people is they get sick a lot. I have no idea why, but it has always been that way. Old people use lots and lots of insurance money. I know that it is greedy of them....but they just do

For some reason, insurance companies don't like to insure old people. That is the reason Medicare was created....those nasty insurance companies did not want to insure old people

What Ryans plan does is give old people $7000 and tells them......Go find an insurance company that will insure you. Anything over that......you pay

Old people may be old.....but they are not stupid when it comes to insurance. They know the Govt will hold to that $7000 even though insurance companies raise their rates. They know if they get seriously sick that the insurance company will raise their rates well above what the Govt pays

Old people, for some reason, are afraid of getting sick and losing everything. Ryans plan will allow that

So when the economy completely implodes and we are bankrupt, the old people will not get sick? it's all Ryan's fault?? if obie doodle and the dimocrats cared about sick old people they wouldn't have stolen 960 billion dollars from medicare. now they want mediscare.

How right you are Willow. And the reason is that medical care is getting increasingly more expensive and grows at a rate many times more than inflation. We need a way to cut down on the overhead of medical care, find a way to pool the insured and cut down costs, increase competition, find problems before they get out of hand

Oh yea....I forgot.....republicans voted no on that one

 

[Full-Auto]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

ya.... whatever you say.

isn't that kool aid a little overly sweet?

the right has been trying to destroy social security and medicare since roosevelt.

here's a clue... prior to social security, 50% of senior citizens lived below the poverty line.

where will they be when the nation is bankrupt? in yer basement?

You are relentless A giant hat tip. Thank you.

 

[WillowTree]

ya.... whatever you say.

isn't that kool aid a little overly sweet?

the right has been trying to destroy social security and medicare since roosevelt.

here's a clue... prior to social security, 50% of senior citizens lived below the poverty line.

where will they be when the nation is bankrupt? in yer basement?

So you are saying "screw the elderly"?

quote me?

 

[Seawytch]

2. Medicare needs to be fixed. Ryan put up one plan, the voucher program. I don't see any viable fixes for Medicare from the Dems. So what is better a voucher program or no Medicare? I prefer the "no freeloaders" option, where the ones who paid in get a "Maximum Lifetime Benefit" and the freeloaders get nothing. Then the Co-pays can be adjusted to keep Medicare. If Medicare ends many hospitals are gone as well.

The better program is this one...



http://sanders.senate.gov/files/TAM11019_xml.pdf

 

[J.E.D]

again, they're not debating the Ryan plan. as we know it..

You're not too bright, are you? Read my lips: THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT REPUBLICANS DEBATING THE RYAN PLAN. IT IS ABOUT REPUBLICANS BEING ACCUSED OF WANTING TO END MEDICARE. THEIR SUPPORT OF THE RYAN PLAN CONFIRMS THAT THEY DO WANT TO END MEDICARE AS WE KNOW IT BECAUSE....WAIT FOR IT...THE RYAN PLAN ENDS MEDICARE AS WE KNOW IT.

Do you get it yet, or should I breakout the sock puppets to better explain it to you?

but they aren't debating the Ryan plan.

I see the problem now. It's not that you're not bright. The problem is that the lights are completely out. The only thing you have left is to put yourself on repeat. "They aren't debating the Ryan plan -- braaawk -- they aren't debating the Ryan plan. Polly wants a cracker"

 

[WillowTree]

The problem with old people is they get sick a lot. I have no idea why, but it has always been that way. Old people use lots and lots of insurance money. I know that it is greedy of them....but they just do

For some reason, insurance companies don't like to insure old people. That is the reason Medicare was created....those nasty insurance companies did not want to insure old people

What Ryans plan does is give old people $7000 and tells them......Go find an insurance company that will insure you. Anything over that......you pay

Old people may be old.....but they are not stupid when it comes to insurance. They know the Govt will hold to that $7000 even though insurance companies raise their rates. They know if they get seriously sick that the insurance company will raise their rates well above what the Govt pays

Old people, for some reason, are afraid of getting sick and losing everything. Ryans plan will allow that

So when the economy completely implodes and we are bankrupt, the old people will not get sick? it's all Ryan's fault?? if obie doodle and the dimocrats cared about sick old people they wouldn't have stolen 960 billion dollars from medicare. now they want mediscare.

How right you are Willow. And the reason is that medical care is getting increasingly more expensive and grows at a rate many times more than inflation. We need a way to cut down on the overhead of medical care, find a way to pool the insured and cut down costs, increase competition, find problems before they get out of hand

Oh yea....I forgot.....republicans voted no on that one

isn't that what obiedoodlecare was supposed to do? instead the insurance pool is shrinking, small business is going out of the business of insuring their employees because of the cost of obiedoodle care,, well to all those who weren't lucky enouch to have the magic waiver wand waved over them. the whole damn system is corrupt beyond recognition..

 

[SFC Ollie]

So other than borrowing more money that we don't have, and taxing the rich until they are poor; what plan do the Democrats have to fix Social Security and medicare?

 

[NYcarbineer]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

Ryan's plan ends medicare. Period. it replaces Medicare with an entirely different system.

 

[WillowTree]

You're not too bright, are you? Read my lips: THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT REPUBLICANS DEBATING THE RYAN PLAN. IT IS ABOUT REPUBLICANS BEING ACCUSED OF WANTING TO END MEDICARE. THEIR SUPPORT OF THE RYAN PLAN CONFIRMS THAT THEY DO WANT TO END MEDICARE AS WE KNOW IT BECAUSE....WAIT FOR IT...THE RYAN PLAN ENDS MEDICARE AS WE KNOW IT.

Do you get it yet, or should I breakout the sock puppets to better explain it to you?

but they aren't debating the Ryan plan.

I see the problem now. It's not that you're not bright. The problem is that the lights are completely out. The only thing you have left is to put yourself on repeat. "They aren't debating the Ryan plan -- brooock -- they aren't debating the Ryan plan. Polly wants a cracker"

the problem is that you and about five of your dummies friends keep referencing what the Ryan plan would do and I know for a fact they aren't debating the ryan plan.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So other than borrowing more money that we don't have, and taxing the rich until they are poor; what plan do the Democrats have to fix Social Security and medicare?

You simply rationalize the revenue with the spending.

 

[WillowTree]

This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality

Ryan's plan ends medicare. Period. it replaces Medicare with an entirely different system.

they aren't debating ryan's plan.

 

[SFC Ollie]

So other than borrowing more money that we don't have, and taxing the rich until they are poor; what plan do the Democrats have to fix Social Security and medicare?

You simply rationalize the revenue with the spending.

So spend more and tax more.

That's what I thought.

 

[rdean]

The solution to the Medicare problem lies in reducing the cost of healthcare. The increase in the cost of healthcare in the US has been rising at 6 and 7% for years well above the increase in personal income. For seniors who are mostly on fixed income, healthcare is well beyond their reach without Medicare. Not only are the costs rising for current services but everyday we see new life saving treatments which cost more than most anyone can afford to pay. Unless we reduce the cost of delivery of healthcare, we will not solve the Medicare problem.

The Ryan plan slowly raises the cost of healthcare for new retirees under 55 to a point that they will not be able to afford it. Then what happens? Enrollment in Medicaid starts increasing. The result being you are transferring cost from one entitlement to another.

About 13 million middle-class Americans were uninsured in 2008, up about two million from 2000. The Census Bureau estimates that 46.3 million people are uninsured in this country, but that was before the economy took a hit in 2008.

Nationwide the average cost an employee paid for a family insurance policy rose 81 percent between 2000 and 2008, even though the median household income fell 2.5 percent when adjusted for inflation.

The state-by-state cost review shows that family coverage premium increases for employer programs during the study period hit Indiana, at 74 percent; Minnesota and Rhode Island, 70 percent each; Oregon 69 percent the largest state, California at 65 percent.

But that doesn't tell the whole story. The cost of employee contributions rose even faster in some states. In Nevada the rise hit 171 percent; followed by Colorado at 133 percent, Massachusetts at 114 percent and Vermont at 107 percent.

Middle Class Hit Hard on Health Insurance

This was all before Obama even took office. Just like the two wars and the deficit, Republicans want to blame it all on Obama.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why do the Democrats keep saying the Republicans want to end medicare or S.S.
This is totally a false statement. In Ryans plan he wants it reformed so we have something for us and our children. Plus, his current plan does not affect anyone 55 and above. If something is not done there would be nothing left for us. I know our family is preparing for this. Savings, 401Ks , husband military retirement ect .. We are not going to prepare for us to get social security because their is a lot of doubt that we will even receive it and the way Obama is going that doubt is becoming reality.

Democrats are merely repeating what they read in the WSJ, a republican newspaper, that said the Ryan plan would “end of Medicare as we know it.”

They also hear conservative members of this and other forums say it.

Then there’s Congressional republicans who want to end Medicare and give money to seniors to buy private policies:

The proposal would shift risk from the federal government to seniors themselves. The money seniors would get to buy their own policies would grow more slowly than their health-care costs, and more slowly than their expected Medicare benefits, which means that they'd need to either cut back on how comprehensive their insurance is or how much health-care they purchase. Exacerbating the situation -- and this is important -- Medicare currently pays providers less and works more efficiently than private insurers, so seniors trying to purchase a plan equivalent to Medicare would pay more for it on the private market.

It's hard, given the constraints of our current debate, to call something "rationing" without being accused of slurring it. But this is rationing, and that's not a slur. This is the government capping its payments and moderating their growth in such a way that many seniors will not get the care they need.

Ryan acknowledged as much.

Sadly for the Republican brain trust, he failed to follow the script that only Democratic reforms lead to "health care denied, delayed and rationed."

"Rationing happens today! The question is who will do it? The government? Or you, your doctor and your family?"

GOP Budget Proposes to Ration Medicare, Privatize Social Security | Crooks and Liars

Republicans want to privatize Social Security, thus ending it:

But the Republican plan to "slash and privatize" hardly ends there. Despite insistence by the Republican leadership that the party is not officially advocating it, the Ryan alternative budget follows Rep. Jeb Hensarling's announced desire to privatize Medicare. As TPM documented:

Rep. Paul Ryan, (R-WI) the ranking Republican on the budget committee, recently detailed the Republican plan for Social Security that preserves the existing program for those 55 or older. For younger people the plan "offers the option of investing over one-third of their current Social Security taxes into personal retirement accounts, similar to the Thrift Savings Plan available to federal employees."

If that sounds vaguely familiar, it should. After all, George W. Bush's disastrous drive to privatize Social Security helped undermine his presidency. Now, in the wake of a Wall Street meltdown that evaporated the retirement savings for countless thousands of Americans, the Republican wunderkind Ryan is calling for an encore.

GOP Budget Proposes to Ration Medicare, Privatize Social Security | Crooks and Liars

So there you have it, in republicans’ own words.

And there’s no disagreement something needs to be done to save the programs, but getting rid of the programs as republicans desire is an unacceptable ‘solution.’

 

[WillowTree]

Let's get you dimocrats up to speed.. they are debating Speaker of the House Boehner's plan which basically calls for a one dollar cut for every dollar increase in the debt ceiling and a move toward balancing the budget. is there anyone here unbalanced enough to oppose that notion?