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The hysterica which has taken over this MB and the talking heads for the past few days would be funny if displayed in a movie. Herd mentality is not rational, and it is not funny when it shapes the politics of the day.
What damage is done if a temple or church or mosque is built? And yet a local board approved a building and the herd went hysterical.
Stop for a minute and consider how an average muslim might feel by the 'outrage' of Gingrich, Palin or Peter King (R, NY) who characterize a billion people who worship in the Islamic Faith unworthy, simply because of their culture and the religion they practice.
The actors who carried out the mass murder on Sept. 11, 2001 were extremists, those who condemn a billion people for the acts of a few prove they too subscribe to an ends and means philosophy.
Those who don't question the motives of politicians and propagandists who create the climate of hysteria are no less extreme, for the words of hate spewed by Gingrich, Palin, King, Limbaugh, et al lead to the death of innocents, as surely as the actions of the 19 criminals did on Nine-Eleven.
Ahh those consequences, hmm thats fine from an isolationist point of view from someone who has never been over in those countries, but what about other consequences? Perhaps you forget about the men and women overseas in service to this country, perhaps you forget about the extremist muslims whom will use this as a victory call and recruit more lost souls to their cause, perhaps you forget about that this will now cause more bloodshed. Now if we were isolationist and we were not over in those countries, by all means build it. but your going to cause an upsurge in extremists if this is built, are you prepared to deal with those consequences? You are not dealing with rational people, you totaly do not get it and perhaps never will. these people are not like americans, and use anything to get an advantage to kill and cause death, and while you sit there saying this is right you are not looking at the big picture at all, it is in very poor taste.
I hope you never lose a loved one over there, or even have a loved one wounded over there. Hell they kill each other just to make a point , we as americans can never understand those people or hope to subvert them to a peaceful way of existance, even if they get what they all want, they will still kill each other and anyone else. Politicians will never understand that either, they will sit there and talk to diplomats and get lied to all day long, and believe all the crap that they are told. Build it and see what happens you have been warned, but then you may think its something else causing the violence and will probably never get it.
I have seen these moderate muslims in Saudi kill a child/ stone people to death/ crush people/ yes these peaceful people you talk about, but hell it is their country so no big deal! it can't happen here right? there will never be any honor killings in America, right? the thousands of people I saw partake in the killings over there some of them friggin passports and visa to the US. No big deal right they are peaceful. heck some of them were there doing their pilgrimage from america but thats fine.
Heck even the the old testament states they will be in all nations and raise their hands against all nations, even if your not religious, they are and it is very real to them, which definately makes it very real for everybody. Build it somewhere else, no need to build it there!
You are aware that many, many knee jerkers are discussing ways of stopping them aren't you? Of course you are, you spend your entire day here. Stopping them from building as opposed to asking them not to is indeed trashing the constitution.
I thought you were a conservative?
Are you liberals for real. If this was a fucking walmart you people would have no trouble with the City or State using Zoning laws or any kind of trick they could to stop it from being built. All of the sudden you are standing up for property rights. To funny.
Liberals have no problem with opposing the construction of anything they do not like. They will use the courts, obscure Zoning laws, or the EPA to stop it. If no legal route works they will simply picket the site until you bow to the pressure and move your build. You people are the Biggest god damn Hippocrates ever.
Hey dumbshit, I'm a conservative libertarian.....which oddly, you claim to be too. We either follow the constitution or we don't. If we don't we are not what we once were or claim to be. Should they build there? No. Do they have a constitutional right to build there? Hell yeah! Do we defend that right? You damn betcha. Grow a pair if you are going to claim to be a conservative libertarian and quit paying lip service to the constitution.
Associate Justice Robert Jackson wrote a twenty-four page dissent in response to the Court's four page decision, which concluded: "The choice is not between order and liberty. It is between liberty with order and anarchy without either. There is danger that, if the court does not temper its doctrinaire logic with a little practical wisdom, it will convert the constitutional Bill of Rights into a suicide pact."
The hysterica which has taken over this MB and the talking heads for the past few days would be funny if displayed in a movie. Herd mentality is not rational, and it is not funny when it shapes the politics of the day.
What damage is done if a temple or church or mosque is built? And yet a local board approved a building and the herd went hysterical.
Stop for a minute and consider how an average muslim might feel by the 'outrage' of Gingrich, Palin or Peter King (R, NY) who characterize a billion people who worship in the Islamic Faith unworthy, simply because of their culture and the religion they practice.
The actors who carried out the mass murder on Sept. 11, 2001 were extremists, those who condemn a billion people for the acts of a few prove they too subscribe to an ends and means philosophy.
Those who don't question the motives of politicians and propagandists who create the climate of hysteria are no less extreme, for the words of hate spewed by Gingrich, Palin, King, Limbaugh, et al lead to the death of innocents, as surely as the actions of the 19 criminals did on Nine-Eleven.
Ahh those consequences, hmm thats fine from an isolationist point of view from someone who has never been over in those countries, but what about other consequences? Perhaps you forget about the men and women overseas in service to this country, perhaps you forget about the extremist muslims whom will use this as a victory call and recruit more lost souls to their cause, perhaps you forget about that this will now cause more bloodshed. Now if we were isolationist and we were not over in those countries, by all means build it. but your going to cause an upsurge in extremists if this is built, are you prepared to deal with those consequences? You are not dealing with rational people, you totaly do not get it and perhaps never will. these people are not like americans, and use anything to get an advantage to kill and cause death, and while you sit there saying this is right you are not looking at the big picture at all, it is in very poor taste.
I hope you never lose a loved one over there, or even have a loved one wounded over there. Hell they kill each other just to make a point , we as americans can never understand those people or hope to subvert them to a peaceful way of existance, even if they get what they all want, they will still kill each other and anyone else. Politicians will never understand that either, they will sit there and talk to diplomats and get lied to all day long, and believe all the crap that they are told. Build it and see what happens you have been warned, but then you may think its something else causing the violence and will probably never get it.
I have seen these moderate muslims in Saudi kill a child/ stone people to death/ crush people/ yes these peaceful people you talk about, but hell it is their country so no big deal! it can't happen here right? there will never be any honor killings in America, right? the thousands of people I saw partake in the killings over there some of them friggin passports and visa to the US. No big deal right they are peaceful. heck some of them were there doing their pilgrimage from america but thats fine.
Heck even the the old testament states they will be in all nations and raise their hands against all nations, even if your not religious, they are and it is very real to them, which definately makes it very real for everybody. Build it somewhere else, no need to build it there!
Those who so scare you are both a minority and fringe element of Islam. By alienating all of Islam we stand the risk of embolding the fringers and helping them recruit members.
Building it demonstrates we are tolerant, and yes the intolerant don't care, but the 'silent majority' of muslims do.
Ahh those consequences, hmm thats fine from an isolationist point of view from someone who has never been over in those countries, but what about other consequences? Perhaps you forget about the men and women overseas in service to this country, perhaps you forget about the extremist muslims whom will use this as a victory call and recruit more lost souls to their cause, perhaps you forget about that this will now cause more bloodshed. Now if we were isolationist and we were not over in those countries, by all means build it. but your going to cause an upsurge in extremists if this is built, are you prepared to deal with those consequences? You are not dealing with rational people, you totaly do not get it and perhaps never will. these people are not like americans, and use anything to get an advantage to kill and cause death, and while you sit there saying this is right you are not looking at the big picture at all, it is in very poor taste.
I hope you never lose a loved one over there, or even have a loved one wounded over there. Hell they kill each other just to make a point , we as americans can never understand those people or hope to subvert them to a peaceful way of existance, even if they get what they all want, they will still kill each other and anyone else. Politicians will never understand that either, they will sit there and talk to diplomats and get lied to all day long, and believe all the crap that they are told. Build it and see what happens you have been warned, but then you may think its something else causing the violence and will probably never get it.
I have seen these moderate muslims in Saudi kill a child/ stone people to death/ crush people/ yes these peaceful people you talk about, but hell it is their country so no big deal! it can't happen here right? there will never be any honor killings in America, right? the thousands of people I saw partake in the killings over there some of them friggin passports and visa to the US. No big deal right they are peaceful. heck some of them were there doing their pilgrimage from america but thats fine.
Heck even the the old testament states they will be in all nations and raise their hands against all nations, even if your not religious, they are and it is very real to them, which definately makes it very real for everybody. Build it somewhere else, no need to build it there!
Those who so scare you are both a minority and fringe element of Islam. By alienating all of Islam we stand the risk of embolding the fringers and helping them recruit members.
Building it demonstrates we are tolerant, and yes the intolerant don't care, but the 'silent majority' of muslims do.
One must ask themselves after 9 years, why are the majority of Muslims silent? They are most effected when a group uses their religion in vain. One might begin to suppose that the majority, after such a long period of inaction, might not be in favor of peace, but instead, in favor of their religion. And, only their religion.
We have grown flabby and lazy in our moral relativism. We like to talk amongst ourselves, we westerners and say, well, after all, the Protestants can go to heaven just like the Catholics and so can the Hindus for that matter. Buddhists too. We're so accepting and liberal with our thoughts that we do not recognize that there are people in the world who do not think as liberally as we do. For them, it is a tenet of their religion that it's their way or the highway.
"I will state publicly that there is one god, Allah, and Mohammad is his prophet"
One of the 5 pillars of Islam.
I wouldn't be so comfortable with imbuing your opponent with the same open and liberal view of the world that you have, because chances are, he doesn't hold those opinions.
Are you liberals for real. If this was a fucking walmart you people would have no trouble with the City or State using Zoning laws or any kind of trick they could to stop it from being built. All of the sudden you are standing up for property rights. To funny.
Liberals have no problem with opposing the construction of anything they do not like. They will use the courts, obscure Zoning laws, or the EPA to stop it. If no legal route works they will simply picket the site until you bow to the pressure and move your build. You people are the Biggest god damn Hippocrates ever.
Hey dumbshit, I'm a conservative libertarian.....which oddly, you claim to be too. We either follow the constitution or we don't. If we don't we are not what we once were or claim to be. Should they build there? No. Do they have a constitutional right to build there? Hell yeah! Do we defend that right? You damn betcha. Grow a pair if you are going to claim to be a conservative libertarian and quit paying lip service to the constitution.
Do you believe that you should support the exact terms of the Constitution even if it will bring about the downfall of the country and the loss of the Constitution as a relevant document?
Associate Justice Robert Jackson wrote a twenty-four page dissent in response to the Court's four page decision, which concluded: "The choice is not between order and liberty. It is between liberty with order and anarchy without either. There is danger that, if the court does not temper its doctrinaire logic with a little practical wisdom, it will convert the constitutional Bill of Rights into a suicide pact."
The Constitution is not a suicide pact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Those who so scare you are both a minority and fringe element of Islam. By alienating all of Islam we stand the risk of embolding the fringers and helping them recruit members.
Building it demonstrates we are tolerant, and yes the intolerant don't care, but the 'silent majority' of muslims do.
One must ask themselves after 9 years, why are the majority of Muslims silent? They are most effected when a group uses their religion in vain. One might begin to suppose that the majority, after such a long period of inaction, might not be in favor of peace, but instead, in favor of their religion. And, only their religion.
We have grown flabby and lazy in our moral relativism. We like to talk amongst ourselves, we westerners and say, well, after all, the Protestants can go to heaven just like the Catholics and so can the Hindus for that matter. Buddhists too. We're so accepting and liberal with our thoughts that we do not recognize that there are people in the world who do not think as liberally as we do. For them, it is a tenet of their religion that it's their way or the highway.
"I will state publicly that there is one god, Allah, and Mohammad is his prophet"
One of the 5 pillars of Islam.
I wouldn't be so comfortable with imbuing your opponent with the same open and liberal view of the world that you have, because chances are, he doesn't hold those opinions.
The point being, our 'opponents' may feel the same way about us. By allowing the building we demonstrate an alternative to the hate and fear broadcast by OBL and other leaders of the Moslem Fringe.
Do you or they doubt that any and all teachings done in the future NYC building or in any mosque in America is not watched from inside? I don't, and I suspect neither do the Iman's.
Hey dumbshit, I'm a conservative libertarian.....which oddly, you claim to be too. We either follow the constitution or we don't. If we don't we are not what we once were or claim to be. Should they build there? No. Do they have a constitutional right to build there? Hell yeah! Do we defend that right? You damn betcha. Grow a pair if you are going to claim to be a conservative libertarian and quit paying lip service to the constitution.
Do you believe that you should support the exact terms of the Constitution even if it will bring about the downfall of the country and the loss of the Constitution as a relevant document?
Associate Justice Robert Jackson wrote a twenty-four page dissent in response to the Court's four page decision, which concluded: "The choice is not between order and liberty. It is between liberty with order and anarchy without either. There is danger that, if the court does not temper its doctrinaire logic with a little practical wisdom, it will convert the constitutional Bill of Rights into a suicide pact."
The Constitution is not a suicide pact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't know. Are you faithful to your wife and your marriage vows unless some really totally hot chick comes onto you and offers you a little strange? I mean if she throws herself at you, it's OK to ignore the wife and vows isn't it?
Do you believe that you should support the exact terms of the Constitution even if it will bring about the downfall of the country and the loss of the Constitution as a relevant document?
The Constitution is not a suicide pact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't know. Are you faithful to your wife and your marriage vows unless some really totally hot chick comes onto you and offers you a little strange? I mean if she throws herself at you, it's OK to ignore the wife and vows isn't it?
That's actually the opposite of what I was saying. Because in your analogy, (I think your point is) that the result of accepting "the little strange" would result in a wrecked marriage.
In my statements, within your analogy, staying faithful would result in a breakdown of the marriage. I don't know how you make that work in your analogy.
One must ask themselves after 9 years, why are the majority of Muslims silent? They are most effected when a group uses their religion in vain. One might begin to suppose that the majority, after such a long period of inaction, might not be in favor of peace, but instead, in favor of their religion. And, only their religion.
We have grown flabby and lazy in our moral relativism. We like to talk amongst ourselves, we westerners and say, well, after all, the Protestants can go to heaven just like the Catholics and so can the Hindus for that matter. Buddhists too. We're so accepting and liberal with our thoughts that we do not recognize that there are people in the world who do not think as liberally as we do. For them, it is a tenet of their religion that it's their way or the highway.
"I will state publicly that there is one god, Allah, and Mohammad is his prophet"
One of the 5 pillars of Islam.
I wouldn't be so comfortable with imbuing your opponent with the same open and liberal view of the world that you have, because chances are, he doesn't hold those opinions.
The point being, our 'opponents' may feel the same way about us. By allowing the building we demonstrate an alternative to the hate and fear broadcast by OBL and other leaders of the Moslem Fringe.
Do you or they doubt that any and all teachings done in the future NYC building or in any mosque in America is not watched from inside? I don't, and I suspect neither do the Iman's.
It isn't so much that I have any particular or general fear about what will happen inside the place. Who cares? There are 100 mosques in NYC. Something nefarious could be going on at any one of them. Nothing special about this one.
It is the fact of the site that is the problem. That's why it has to be THERE. That's why none of the other 100 would do for this center. If you gave them a spot 1/2 mile away, I'd be fine with it.....and they wouldn't.
That should tell you something. This is for the purpose of proclaiming a Muslim victory. This is for the purpose of propaganda. The fact of the existence of center, will harm our country.
I don't know. Are you faithful to your wife and your marriage vows unless some really totally hot chick comes onto you and offers you a little strange? I mean if she throws herself at you, it's OK to ignore the wife and vows isn't it?
That's actually the opposite of what I was saying. Because in your analogy, (I think your point is) that the result of accepting "the little strange" would result in a wrecked marriage.
In my statements, within your analogy, staying faithful would result in a breakdown of the marriage. I don't know how you make that work in your analogy.
Just how does remaining faithful to the constitution endanger us in any way with having an Islamic cultural center with a room for Friday prayers two blocks away from ground zero? I get that it might offend your personal sensibilities, but that isn't any cause for suspending the consitution is it?
Revealed: UKs first official sharia courts
Abul Taher
ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.
The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.
Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.
The point being, our 'opponents' may feel the same way about us. By allowing the building we demonstrate an alternative to the hate and fear broadcast by OBL and other leaders of the Moslem Fringe.
Do you or they doubt that any and all teachings done in the future NYC building or in any mosque in America is not watched from inside? I don't, and I suspect neither do the Iman's.
It isn't so much that I have any particular or general fear about what will happen inside the place. Who cares? There are 100 mosques in NYC. Something nefarious could be going on at any one of them. Nothing special about this one.
It is the fact of the site that is the problem. That's why it has to be THERE. That's why none of the other 100 would do for this center. If you gave them a spot 1/2 mile away, I'd be fine with it.....and they wouldn't.
That should tell you something. This is for the purpose of proclaiming a Muslim victory. This is for the purpose of propaganda. The fact of the existence of center, will harm our country.
Your final two paragraphs are opinions, it is my opinion some Muslims may see it as a victory, others may see that America and Americans don't all hate them and their culture, and that the ideals upon which are nation was founded have not been set aside to descriminate against another culture and its people.
I suppose, given land is available and the costs are mitigated by those who oppose its current location.
I would not be surprised if much of the funding for the Mosque comes from Saudi Arabia, Egypt,etc.I suppose, given land is available and the costs are mitigated by those who oppose its current location.
I think so too. So really, all I want is a compromise, not a ban.
They have 100 mosques there already. One more or less makes no difference to me. Just don't put it where it becomes a propaganda victory that harms the country, that's all.
