Why do people put up with the US healthcare system?

[PredFan]

The US healthcare system is the best in the entire world. It is only government regulation that drives the prices up. For instance, the FDA increases the cost of drugs and research by a great deal. Foreign countries do not have to deal with that.

 

[kiwiman127]

How a bite from a stray dog shows the sick state of U.S. healthcare

"The first shot at Royal Angkor International Hospital cost $125." (Cambodia)

"Jan received her second Verorab shot at a clinic in northern Thailand. The bill this time: A mere $18.50"

"Things changed dramatically once the Kerns returned to this country. For her third shot, Jan visited Torrance Memorial Medical Center. It was a Sunday, and she had to go to the emergency room, so that added considerably to her cost. The tab for a single injection: $5,254.85."


"“It’s obvious that our system is unlike any other health system,” said Uwe Reinhardt, a healthcare economist at Princeton University. “Other systems were set up to care for patients. Ours was set up by the providers — the hospitals and drug companies — for their own benefit.”"

Most countries in the world have healthcare to treat patients, the US has healthcare to make healthcare providers money.

So much money gets wasted in corruption, it's something like 3% of US GDP at the very least.

You have NO problem though in suing the doctor here in the USA and so you idiots don't seem to understand then why we see THIS from 90% of doctors surveyed!

90% of physicians say they order duplicate tests,specialists referrals..at a cost of over $850 billion a year!

http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf
90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
--- Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
--- 79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.
"Physicians contracted by the federal government practice significantly less defensive medicine as they are protected against lawsuits by the 1946 Federal Tort Claims Act. "
-- BUT........Only 48% practice defensive medicine compared to 92% of non-government physicians.
Consider that fact that of the physicians interviewed, 52% DID NOT practice defensive medicine!
Who were the doctors that didn't practice "defensive medicine"?
Doctors contracted by federal government!
WHY did these doctors NOT practice "defensive medicine"??? 1946 Federal Tort reform Act!
The insurance companies don't care to argue these claims.
They pay the $850 billion. Simply raising premiums.
So how come Obamacare taxed tanning salons 10% because tanning causes tanning,
but they wouldn't tax lawyers' $270 Billion income.
If educated physicians are telling you they fear lawsuits and order duplicate tests, etc. why wasn't there any effort to reduce the $850 billion spent in duplicate testing,etc. possible?
The reason though lawyers were protected though is almost half of Congress and of course Obama are lawyers!
A simple reduction of the $850 billion a year in defensive medicine claims would have reduced the Aetna's claims cost and again THEY don't care because they simply raise their premiums!
So when Aetna wants to get out of Obamacare it's because they can't make that evil profit...which many of you ignorant dummies hold against Aetna and any other for profit organization...but you are so dumb!
It is out of these profits "RESERVES" are created. Without the "RESERVES" states' insurance regulators won't let insurance companies sell insurance. If the Aetnas' don't make profits ...no reserves... no state allows them to sell! It is that ...f....king SIMPLE but you idiots that are against "PROFITS" listen!
That's the ONLY way insurance companies can stay in the health insurance business.
So have Civilian TORT reform. Reduce the fear of Lawsuits! This WILL LOWER THE $850 BILLION A YEAR OF WASTED DUPLICATE TESTS,ETC.!!!

$850 billion annually? That quite a bit higher than the Journal of the American Medical Association study.
====================================================================================
"On Saturday, the Los Angeles Times featured a column written by Michael Hiltzik entitled “New study shows that the savings from ‘tort reform’ are mythical,” in which he writes frivolous lawsuits are “a problem that exists mostly in the minds of conservatives and the medical establishment.”
To support his argument, Hiltzik cites a new study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association examining the cost of defensive medicine.
Defensive medicine is a term referring to the practice of recommending extra tests or treatments not necessarily necessary for the patient to protect the physician against potential lawsuits.
The study found defensive medicine accounted for 2.9 percent of health care spending, or $78 billion of the estimated $2.7 trillion U.S. healthcare bill."
Study examining defensive medicine costs fuels med-mal cap debate
=====================================================================================
Maybe defensive medicine isn't only because of frivolous lawsuits. Annually, 250,000-400,000 people die annually in the US because of medical errors.
Deaths by medical mistakes hit records
Are medical errors really the third most common cause of death in the U.S.? « Science-Based Medicine
Hospital Errors are the Third Leading Cause of Death in U.S., and New Hospital Safety Scores Show Improvements Are Too Slow
Now, I'm all against frivolous lawsuits. Not only do they drive up costs (and not only in healthcare) but also slow down our legitimate court cases.
But I also believe in protection of the patient. I have a friend who works for a malpractice insurance company and he has stated often, that there are many poor doctors out there, based on the lawsuits won by the patient.

 

[kiwiman127]

The US healthcare system is the best in the entire world. It is only government regulation that drives the prices up. For instance, the FDA increases the cost of drugs and research by a great deal. Foreign countries do not have to deal with that.

Do you have anything to back your claim up that the US has the best healthcare in the world other than some talking point?
I have seen studies that don't back up your claim.
Forbes Welcome
These Are The 36 Countries That Have Better Healthcare Systems Than The US

 

[Windship]

because of the skillful manipulation of facts and emotions. How else can you convince working people that unions are bad for them?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

because of the skillful manipulation of facts and emotions. How else can you convince working people that unions are bad for them?

What?????

 

[PredFan]

The US healthcare system is the best in the entire world. It is only government regulation that drives the prices up. For instance, the FDA increases the cost of drugs and research by a great deal. Foreign countries do not have to deal with that.

Do you have anything to back your claim up that the US has the best healthcare in the world other than some talking point?
I have seen studies that don't back up your claim.
Forbes Welcome
These Are The 36 Countries That Have Better Healthcare Systems Than The US

Yeah, I have worked in medicine for 43 years. I have seen the rich from other countries come here for their care, I have seen ground breaking medical procedures and therapies developed here first, and that study you cited has been widely discredited.

 

[JoeNormal]

The US healthcare system is the best in the entire world. It is only government regulation that drives the prices up. For instance, the FDA increases the cost of drugs and research by a great deal. Foreign countries do not have to deal with that.

Do you have anything to back your claim up that the US has the best healthcare in the world other than some talking point?
I have seen studies that don't back up your claim.
Forbes Welcome
These Are The 36 Countries That Have Better Healthcare Systems Than The US

Yeah, I have worked in medicine for 43 years. I have seen the rich from other countries come here for their care, I have seen ground breaking medical procedures and therapies developed here first, and that study you cited has been widely discredited.

US medical care: Designed BY the rich FOR the rich. All you poor, unfortunate middle class people just get to subsidize it.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Yes, I've noticed. And that's why someone like Trump can be so popular, he's tapped into that greed. He's claiming he'll share the greed around, but we all know what will happen, just like under the United States of Halliburton where the poor man lost his life or his legs and the rich man got richer.

Yea, cos Hillary's gonna share "the greed" around

 

[healthmyths]

How a bite from a stray dog shows the sick state of U.S. healthcare

"The first shot at Royal Angkor International Hospital cost $125." (Cambodia)

"Jan received her second Verorab shot at a clinic in northern Thailand. The bill this time: A mere $18.50"

"Things changed dramatically once the Kerns returned to this country. For her third shot, Jan visited Torrance Memorial Medical Center. It was a Sunday, and she had to go to the emergency room, so that added considerably to her cost. The tab for a single injection: $5,254.85."


"“It’s obvious that our system is unlike any other health system,” said Uwe Reinhardt, a healthcare economist at Princeton University. “Other systems were set up to care for patients. Ours was set up by the providers — the hospitals and drug companies — for their own benefit.”"

Most countries in the world have healthcare to treat patients, the US has healthcare to make healthcare providers money.

So much money gets wasted in corruption, it's something like 3% of US GDP at the very least.

You have NO problem though in suing the doctor here in the USA and so you idiots don't seem to understand then why we see THIS from 90% of doctors surveyed!

90% of physicians say they order duplicate tests,specialists referrals..at a cost of over $850 billion a year!

http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf
90% of physicians surveyed say they order $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate tests, referrals all out of FEAR of being SUED!
--- Emergency medicine, primary care, and OB/GYN physicians are most likely to practice defensive medicine.
--- 79 to 83% of surgeons and OB/GYNs have been named in lawsuits.
"Physicians contracted by the federal government practice significantly less defensive medicine as they are protected against lawsuits by the 1946 Federal Tort Claims Act. "
-- BUT........Only 48% practice defensive medicine compared to 92% of non-government physicians.
Consider that fact that of the physicians interviewed, 52% DID NOT practice defensive medicine!
Who were the doctors that didn't practice "defensive medicine"?
Doctors contracted by federal government!
WHY did these doctors NOT practice "defensive medicine"??? 1946 Federal Tort reform Act!
The insurance companies don't care to argue these claims.
They pay the $850 billion. Simply raising premiums.
So how come Obamacare taxed tanning salons 10% because tanning causes tanning,
but they wouldn't tax lawyers' $270 Billion income.
If educated physicians are telling you they fear lawsuits and order duplicate tests, etc. why wasn't there any effort to reduce the $850 billion spent in duplicate testing,etc. possible?
The reason though lawyers were protected though is almost half of Congress and of course Obama are lawyers!
A simple reduction of the $850 billion a year in defensive medicine claims would have reduced the Aetna's claims cost and again THEY don't care because they simply raise their premiums!
So when Aetna wants to get out of Obamacare it's because they can't make that evil profit...which many of you ignorant dummies hold against Aetna and any other for profit organization...but you are so dumb!
It is out of these profits "RESERVES" are created. Without the "RESERVES" states' insurance regulators won't let insurance companies sell insurance. If the Aetnas' don't make profits ...no reserves... no state allows them to sell! It is that ...f....king SIMPLE but you idiots that are against "PROFITS" listen!
That's the ONLY way insurance companies can stay in the health insurance business.
So have Civilian TORT reform. Reduce the fear of Lawsuits! This WILL LOWER THE $850 BILLION A YEAR OF WASTED DUPLICATE TESTS,ETC.!!!

$850 billion annually? That quite a bit higher than the Journal of the American Medical Association study.
====================================================================================
"On Saturday, the Los Angeles Times featured a column written by Michael Hiltzik entitled “New study shows that the savings from ‘tort reform’ are mythical,” in which he writes frivolous lawsuits are “a problem that exists mostly in the minds of conservatives and the medical establishment.”
To support his argument, Hiltzik cites a new study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association examining the cost of defensive medicine.
Defensive medicine is a term referring to the practice of recommending extra tests or treatments not necessarily necessary for the patient to protect the physician against potential lawsuits.
The study found defensive medicine accounted for 2.9 percent of health care spending, or $78 billion of the estimated $2.7 trillion U.S. healthcare bill."
Study examining defensive medicine costs fuels med-mal cap debate
=====================================================================================
Maybe defensive medicine isn't only because of frivolous lawsuits. Annually, 250,000-400,000 people die annually in the US because of medical errors.
Deaths by medical mistakes hit records
Are medical errors really the third most common cause of death in the U.S.? « Science-Based Medicine
Hospital Errors are the Third Leading Cause of Death in U.S., and New Hospital Safety Scores Show Improvements Are Too Slow
Now, I'm all against frivolous lawsuits. Not only do they drive up costs (and not only in healthcare) but also slow down our legitimate court cases.
But I also believe in protection of the patient. I have a friend who works for a malpractice insurance company and he has stated often, that there are many poor doctors out there, based on the lawsuits won by the patient.

In a subsequent analysis, PriceWaterhouse-Coopers used the 2 percent figure, then extrapolated from estimates of the practice of defensive medicine in a study of care for two cardiac conditions by Dan Kessler and Mark McClellan.7 On that basis, the firm reported that the cost of insurance and defensive medicine combined account for approximately 10 percent of total health care costs.
National Costs Of The Medical Liability System

Total U.S. health care expenditures were estimated to be $3.24 trillion in 2015, and are projected to soar to $3.78 trillion in 2018.

So 10% would be $378 billion.

Oliver’s team forwarded us a 2012 report that examined the economics of defensive medicine in Georgia. The report, by a German-based team of researchers done for Patients for Fair Compensation, looked at two studies on the economic impact of defensive medicine in this state. The annual figures ranged from $14 billion to $22 billion.
Estimates vary on cost of defensive medicine

Splitting the difference ($22 - 14 = 8 added to $14 = $18 billion or
Using Georgia figure of $18 billion or $1,782 per Georgian times 318 million Americans equals $566 Billion.

Finally remember... The doctors in the Jackson Healthcare were ONLY describing what doctors thought THEY were doing in "defensive Medicine".
Doesn't take in to consideration what "hospitals" might be doing to protect themselves from lawsuits.

So using your figures and using the three different sources I've supplied let's be conservative and cut the figure from $850 billion to $500 billion!
Still a huge number paid out by insurance companies who simply increase premiums.
You ignored my observation that Federally contracted physicians were by 50% less inclined to do defensive medicine simply because of the 1946 Federal Tort Act.

So regardless it is a huge cost that doing better management of the legal system would reduce the doctors proclivity to 2nd guess.
Is there any other AREA that has such a direct relationship as lawsuits to the $500 billion in wasted defensive medicine costs?

 

[healthmyths]

The US healthcare system is the best in the entire world. It is only government regulation that drives the prices up. For instance, the FDA increases the cost of drugs and research by a great deal. Foreign countries do not have to deal with that.

Do you have anything to back your claim up that the US has the best healthcare in the world other than some talking point?
I have seen studies that don't back up your claim.
Forbes Welcome
These Are The 36 Countries That Have Better Healthcare Systems Than The US

Well you seemed to ignore one of the issues PredFan pointed out..."FDA costs of drugs"...
What about this shows the US creates over twice as many drugs as the other 5 countries.

1) Average cost to develop ONE DRUG (including failures!!!) $2.6 BILLION! Per drug... and takes 10 years!
http://www.phrma.org/sites/default/files/pdf/2015_phrma_profile.pdf
2) Which Countries Excel in Creating New Drugs? It’s Complicated | Xconomy

 

[kiwiman127]

The US healthcare system is the best in the entire world. It is only government regulation that drives the prices up. For instance, the FDA increases the cost of drugs and research by a great deal. Foreign countries do not have to deal with that.

Do you have anything to back your claim up that the US has the best healthcare in the world other than some talking point?
I have seen studies that don't back up your claim.
Forbes Welcome
These Are The 36 Countries That Have Better Healthcare Systems Than The US

Yeah, I have worked in medicine for 43 years. I have seen the rich from other countries come here for their care, I have seen ground breaking medical procedures and therapies developed here first, and that study you cited has been widely discredited.

The wealthy travel to Europe and Asia for their care. They go to where they will get the best treatment for their specific health issue. The US is tops for specific types of cancer, other countries lead the way in treatment for other issues.
I linked two studies, can you supply the link/links to the information discrediting one or both studies? Thank you.

 

[kiwiman127]

The US healthcare system is the best in the entire world. It is only government regulation that drives the prices up. For instance, the FDA increases the cost of drugs and research by a great deal. Foreign countries do not have to deal with that.

Do you have anything to back your claim up that the US has the best healthcare in the world other than some talking point?
I have seen studies that don't back up your claim.
Forbes Welcome
These Are The 36 Countries That Have Better Healthcare Systems Than The US

Well you seemed to ignore one of the issues PredFan pointed out..."FDA costs of drugs"...
What about this shows the US creates over twice as many drugs as the other 5 countries.

1) Average cost to develop ONE DRUG (including failures!!!) $2.6 BILLION! Per drug... and takes 10 years!
http://www.phrma.org/sites/default/files/pdf/2015_phrma_profile.pdf
2) Which Countries Excel in Creating New Drugs? It’s Complicated | Xconomy

View attachment 88596

.

And all these drugs are sold worldwide, yet in the US, we pay 2-5 times more. So we get raped and the rest of the world slides by with dramatic lower pricing. How does that dictate our quality of healthcare?
What's your point?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The US healthcare system is the best in the entire world. It is only government regulation that drives the prices up. For instance, the FDA increases the cost of drugs and research by a great deal. Foreign countries do not have to deal with that.

Do you have anything to back your claim up that the US has the best healthcare in the world other than some talking point?
I have seen studies that don't back up your claim.
Forbes Welcome
These Are The 36 Countries That Have Better Healthcare Systems Than The US

That is a WHO ranking system that weighs access very heavily.

That study is worthless if you are talking about the technical capability of our health care system.

 

[Freewill]

The federal government is responsible for the massive rise in health care costs. If you want to fix the system then you need you kick the government out, not give them more seats at the table.

Government?
The USA has the highest healthcare cost per capita of all developed nations in the world. All other developed nations (with the exception of Turkey), have healthcare systems run by their governments. It's called socialized medicine.View attachment 88574

How does that ALONE cut costs? The administrative part of healthcare in the US is about 5 percent. Do you think that it would be cheaper if the government ran it?

 

[Freewill]

How a bite from a stray dog shows the sick state of U.S. healthcare

"The first shot at Royal Angkor International Hospital cost $125." (Cambodia)

"Jan received her second Verorab shot at a clinic in northern Thailand. The bill this time: A mere $18.50"

"Things changed dramatically once the Kerns returned to this country. For her third shot, Jan visited Torrance Memorial Medical Center. It was a Sunday, and she had to go to the emergency room, so that added considerably to her cost. The tab for a single injection: $5,254.85."


"“It’s obvious that our system is unlike any other health system,” said Uwe Reinhardt, a healthcare economist at Princeton University. “Other systems were set up to care for patients. Ours was set up by the providers — the hospitals and drug companies — for their own benefit.”"

Most countries in the world have healthcare to treat patients, the US has healthcare to make healthcare providers money.

So much money gets wasted in corruption, it's something like 3% of US GDP at the very least.

You need to ask Obama, he got healthcare passed and it could have pretty much said anything. Only problem he needed the drug companies' support so if you remember he struck a deal behind closed doors.

Sad what Obama put on America.

Obama had to work within the system. Had he been in another country it'd have been a lot easier. As it was he had opposition the whole way for the sake of opposition from people making a ton of money out of the system, and from those who seem to like to be over charged massively.

the republicans couldn't have stopped him. If they could have they would have. But they couldn't and now you wish to blame them for the mess Obama created. Takes a lot of gut defending the drug companies as the left wing likes to do.

 

[kiwiman127]

The US healthcare system is the best in the entire world. It is only government regulation that drives the prices up. For instance, the FDA increases the cost of drugs and research by a great deal. Foreign countries do not have to deal with that.

Do you have anything to back your claim up that the US has the best healthcare in the world other than some talking point?
I have seen studies that don't back up your claim.
Forbes Welcome
These Are The 36 Countries That Have Better Healthcare Systems Than The US

That is a WHO ranking system that weighs access very heavily.

That study is worthless if you are talking about the technical capability of our health care system.

I listed two studies, not just one, but also Forbes. How does The Commonwealth Fund for work for you?
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally

Regarding access, access isn't supposed to count? We are the richest country on Earth and our citizens don't have the access the rest of the world has, who just happen not to have the wealth the US has.
Makes a lot of sense and particularly because we are a supposedly Christian country.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The US healthcare system is the best in the entire world. It is only government regulation that drives the prices up. For instance, the FDA increases the cost of drugs and research by a great deal. Foreign countries do not have to deal with that.

Do you have anything to back your claim up that the US has the best healthcare in the world other than some talking point?
I have seen studies that don't back up your claim.
Forbes Welcome
These Are The 36 Countries That Have Better Healthcare Systems Than The US

Yeah, I have worked in medicine for 43 years. I have seen the rich from other countries come here for their care, I have seen ground breaking medical procedures and therapies developed here first, and that study you cited has been widely discredited.

The wealthy travel to Europe and Asia for their care. They go to where they will get the best treatment for their specific health issue. The US is tops for specific types of cancer, other countries lead the way in treatment for other issues.
I linked two studies, can you supply the link/links to the information discrediting one or both studies? Thank you.

Medical tourism is a great thing. I know many people who have traveled to Malaysia for different treatments.

Why try to refute it when the market works ?

 

[kiwiman127]

The federal government is responsible for the massive rise in health care costs. If you want to fix the system then you need you kick the government out, not give them more seats at the table.

Government?
The USA has the highest healthcare cost per capita of all developed nations in the world. All other developed nations (with the exception of Turkey), have healthcare systems run by their governments. It's called socialized medicine.View attachment 88574

How does that ALONE cut costs? The administrative part of healthcare in the US is about 5 percent. Do you think that it would be cheaper if the government ran it?

Based on the world of facts, other countries have much less expensive healthcare than the US and they are all socialist.

 

[healthmyths]

The US healthcare system is the best in the entire world. It is only government regulation that drives the prices up. For instance, the FDA increases the cost of drugs and research by a great deal. Foreign countries do not have to deal with that.

Do you have anything to back your claim up that the US has the best healthcare in the world other than some talking point?
I have seen studies that don't back up your claim.
Forbes Welcome
These Are The 36 Countries That Have Better Healthcare Systems Than The US

Well you seemed to ignore one of the issues PredFan pointed out..."FDA costs of drugs"...
What about this shows the US creates over twice as many drugs as the other 5 countries.

1) Average cost to develop ONE DRUG (including failures!!!) $2.6 BILLION! Per drug... and takes 10 years!
http://www.phrma.org/sites/default/files/pdf/2015_phrma_profile.pdf
2) Which Countries Excel in Creating New Drugs? It’s Complicated | Xconomy

View attachment 88596

.

And all these drugs are sold worldwide, yet in the US, we pay 2-5 times more. So we get raped and the rest of the world slides by with dramatic lower pricing. How does that dictate our quality of healthcare?
What's your point?

Pretty simple! We are PAYING for the development here in this country! So you want more companies to go off shore keep bitching and calling these drug companies
the names you are and they will be gone! Case in point...
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/d9b4fd34-ca3f-11e3-8a31-00144feabdc0.html#axzz4JcFHJAdy

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The US healthcare system is the best in the entire world. It is only government regulation that drives the prices up. For instance, the FDA increases the cost of drugs and research by a great deal. Foreign countries do not have to deal with that.

Do you have anything to back your claim up that the US has the best healthcare in the world other than some talking point?
I have seen studies that don't back up your claim.
Forbes Welcome
These Are The 36 Countries That Have Better Healthcare Systems Than The US

That is a WHO ranking system that weighs access very heavily.

That study is worthless if you are talking about the technical capability of our health care system.

I listed two studies, not just one, but also Forbes. How does The Commonwealth Fund for work for you?
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally
View attachment 88616
View attachment 88617
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally

Regarding access, access isn't supposed to count? We are the richest country on Earth and our citizens don't have the access the rest of the world has, who just happen not to have the wealth the US has.
Makes a lot of sense and particularly because we are a supposedly Christian country.

I think access is a big deal.

But you lose credibility when you say we are about as good as Cuba. Most people know better.

So possibly there should be multiple scales and rankings. One overall ranking is bullcrap.

The commonwealth study does the same thing.

Additionally, the metrics need to be common which, as I understand it, they are not.

The ONE big metric that always jumps out at me is the 8,500 per person per year we spend. That is simply stupid.