Why do patriotic Americans support Zionism?

[Thunderbird]

Why do patriotic Americans support Zionist extremists?

Should the American taxpayer be compelled to send billions in welfare payments to the state of Israel? Couldn't this money be spent here in the U.S.，or better yet used to reduce our enormous deficit?

In the 1997 fiscal year, for example, Israel received $3 billion from the foreign aid budget, at least $525 million from other U.S. budgets, and $2 billion in federal loan guarantees. So the 1997 total of U.S. grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion. That’s $15,068,493 per day, 365 days a year.

quote: As part of the aid, this year Israel will receive $2.5 billion, in 2010 - $2.775 billion, and in 2011 the sum will reach $3 billion. In total, the security aid Tel Aviv is slated to receive from Washington stands at some $30 billion until 2019.

1) Israel has not shown gratitude. For example, Israel has spied on us and re-exported weapons to America's adversary China.

quote: Israel has illegally re-exported advanced US defense technology to China. The problem was first recognized in 1992 when the State Department's inspector general reported that there was "overwhelming" evidence of a "systematic and growing pattern" of transfers. Israel has been the primary supplier of advanced defense technology to China since 1989.

2) Israel does not occupy the moral high ground.

quote: We condemn Israel's assault on Gaza. As of today , more than 1,000 Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli assault, including at least 335 children and many more civilians. Nearly 5,000 have been wounded, many paralyzed for life. Tens of thousands have fled their homes - but Gaza is entirely sealed off, so there is nowhere to hide, no safe haven for civilians

3) The American people derive no benefit from their "investment". Unless you consider the lasting enmity of millions living the Middle East (and elsewhere) a benefit.

4) Israel's extremism endangers American troops according to General Petraeus and Admiral Mullen.

quote from Petraeus: "The conflict foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel, Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the [region] and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes in the Arab world.

Meanwhile, al-Qaeda and other militant groups exploit that anger to mobilize support."

 

[Thunderbird]

And now with links:

Why do patriotic Americans support Zionist extremists?

Should the American taxpayer be compelled to send billions in welfare payments to the state of Israel? Couldn't this money be spent here in the U.S.，or better yet used to reduce our enormous deficit?

In the 1997 fiscal year, for example, Israel received $3 billion from the foreign aid budget, at least $525 million from other U.S. budgets, and $2 billion in federal loan guarantees. So the 1997 total of U.S. grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion. That’s $15,068,493 per day, 365 days a year. link: The Cost of Israel to the American People by Richard Curtiss

quote: As part of the aid, this year Israel will receive $2.5 billion, in 2010 - $2.775 billion, and in 2011 the sum will reach $3 billion. In total, the security aid Tel Aviv is slated to receive from Washington stands at some $30 billion until 2019.
link: http://www.almanar.com.lb/newssite/NewsDetails.aspx?id=84942&language=en

1) Israel has not shown gratitude. For example, Israel has spied on us and re-exported weapons to America's adversary China.

quote: Israel has illegally re-exported advanced US defense technology to China. The problem was first recognized in 1992 when the State Department's inspector general reported that there was "overwhelming" evidence of a "systematic and growing pattern" of transfers. Israel has been the primary supplier of advanced defense technology to China since 1989.
link: Nuclear and Missile Developments

2) Israel does not occupy the moral high ground.

quote: We condemn Israel's assault on Gaza. As of today , more than 1,000 Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli assault, including at least 335 children and many more civilians. Nearly 5,000 have been wounded, many paralyzed for life. Tens of thousands have fled their homes - but Gaza is entirely sealed off, so there is nowhere to hide, no safe haven for civilians
link: http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/p...cle_1159.shtml

3) The American people derive no benefit from their "investment". Unless you consider the lasting enmity of millions living the Middle East (and elsewhere) a benefit.

4) Israel's extremism endangers American troops according to General Petraeus and Admiral Mullen.

quote from Petraeus: "The conflict foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel, Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the [region] and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes in the Arab world.

Meanwhile, al-Qaeda and other militant groups exploit that anger to mobilize support."

 

[CMike]

• Israel is the only democracy in the middle east
  
• Israel is one small country fighting for it's survival against foes many times it's size trying to wipe it out
  
• Israel's enemies are America's enemies. The same arab terrorists that attack Israel, are the same ones that attack America, or are linked together
  
• Israel supplies critical intelligence information to the US to help it's war on terrorism.

Once again, the OP displays the normal double standard All countries spy on other countries, including allies, but, once again, it's only Israel that is singled out when it spys on an ally.

 

[Shogun]

• Israel is the only democracy in the middle east
  
• Israel is one small country fighting for it's survival against foes many times it's size trying to wipe it out
  
• Israel's enemies are America's enemies. The same arab terrorists that attack Israel, are the same ones that attack America, or are linked together
  
• Israel supplies critical intelligence information to the US to help it's war on terrorism.

Once again, the OP displays the normal double standard All countries spy on other countries, including allies, but, once again, it's only Israel that is singled out when it spys on an ally.

....says a racist jew...




It's hilarious to watch jews insist that isreal get a free pass every time it gets caught with its hand in the cookie jar.


That jesus was jewish, and commanded such blank check support, is probably the most significant invention of the hebrew culture.

 

[jillian]

....says a racist jew...




It's hilarious to watch jews insist that isreal get a free pass every time it gets caught with its hand in the cookie jar.


That jesus was jewish, and commanded such blank check support, is probably the most significant invention of the hebrew culture.

says someone who hates israel and loves terrorists.

see how that works.

 

[Thunderbird]

Israel has an awful human rights record. Israel in no way respects the values America cherishes.

Israel has a huge military establishment thanks to the largess of the American taxpayer. No other country has close to Israel's arsenal. Israel possesses a large nuclear stockpile.

The only reason America is at war with the terrorists is because of our bias toward Israel. Pre-Israel, the U.S. was widely admired in the Mideast, we were a great power that didn't set up colonies. Now we are despised because we supply weapons used to slaughter civilians. Thanks Israel!

The only reason why American taxpayers are compelled to deliver tons of cash and weapons to Israel is the activities of AIPAC (voted the 2nd most influential lobby in Washington). So the pro-Israel crowd bribes our politicians to put the interests of another country (Israel) over the interests of the American citizen.

 

[Thunderbird]

quote: Israel is the largest recipient of U.S. aid since WWII, amounting to some $174 billion (2009 dollars), and about $700/citizen today. Since 1982, the U.S. has vetoed 42 Security Council resolutions critical of Israel, more than the total number of vetoes cast by all the other Security Council members — and this does not even count those that did not come to a vote because of a U.S. veto threat.

This extraordinarily high degree of economic, military and diplomatic support given to Israel by the United States cannot be explained or justified by the notion that Israel functions as a strategic asset to the U.S., or that Israel as the "only democracy" amidst a sea of authoritarian neighbors is deserving of special favor for its "shared interests and values."

In fact, Israel is more a liability than an asset. During the Cold War, the strategic-value argument had perhaps some plausibility but no longer. What has replaced the Soviet menace, as the enemy which the U.S. supposedly needed Israel's help to combat, is Islamic terrorism. But the U.S. favor shown to Israel at the expense of the Palestinians only makes us more, not less, vulnerable to terrorism. Further Israel's cruelty towards the Palestinians and its essential nature as a Jewish but not a truly democratic state in which all citizens of whatever ethnicity or religion would be given equal rights and respect, belie the "shared values" argument. Moreover, our military has not been able to use Israel as a base in either Gulf War, nor could we ask it to help for risk of triggering a calamity in the region.

link: The Arab American News - Israel is more a liability than an asset to the U.S.

 

[del]

quote: Israel is the largest recipient of U.S. aid since WWII, amounting to some $174 billion (2009 dollars), and about $700/citizen today. Since 1982, the U.S. has vetoed 42 Security Council resolutions critical of Israel, more than the total number of vetoes cast by all the other Security Council members — and this does not even count those that did not come to a vote because of a U.S. veto threat.

This extraordinarily high degree of economic, military and diplomatic support given to Israel by the United States cannot be explained or justified by the notion that Israel functions as a strategic asset to the U.S., or that Israel as the "only democracy" amidst a sea of authoritarian neighbors is deserving of special favor for its "shared interests and values."

In fact, Israel is more a liability than an asset. During the Cold War, the strategic-value argument had perhaps some plausibility but no longer. What has replaced the Soviet menace, as the enemy which the U.S. supposedly needed Israel's help to combat, is Islamic terrorism. But the U.S. favor shown to Israel at the expense of the Palestinians only makes us more, not less, vulnerable to terrorism. Further Israel's cruelty towards the Palestinians and its essential nature as a Jewish but not a truly democratic state in which all citizens of whatever ethnicity or religion would be given equal rights and respect, belie the "shared values" argument. Moreover, our military has not been able to use Israel as a base in either Gulf War, nor could we ask it to help for risk of triggering a calamity in the region.

link: The Arab American News - Israel is more a liability than an asset to the U.S.

since you're new here, i'll assume that you don't know that when a thread is moved, there's a reason. you're more than welcome to do your anti-israel rants in the appropriate forum. i'm moving this thread, again. do not start it again, or you'll be on vacation. thanks

 

[Thunderbird]

quote：The "shared democracy" rationale is also weakened by aspects of Israeli democracy that are at odds with core American values. The United States is a liberal democracy where people of any race, religion, or ethnicity are supposed to enjoy equal rights. By contrast, Israel was explicitly founded as a Jewish state and citizenship is based on the principle of blood kinship. Given this conception of citizenship, it is not surprising that Israel’s 1.3 million Arabs are treated as second-class citizens, or that a recent Israeli government commission found that Israel behaves in a "neglectful and discriminatory" manner towards them.

Similarly, Israel does not permit Palestinians who marry Israeli citizens to become citizens themselves, and does not give these spouses the right to live in Israel. The Israeli human rights organization B’tselem called this restriction "a racist law that determines who can live here according to racist criteria." Such laws may be understandable given Israel’s founding principles, but they are not consistent with America’s image of democracy.

Israel’s democratic status is also undermined by its refusal to grant the Palestinians a viable state of their own. Israel controls the lives of about 3.8 million Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, while colonizing lands on which the Palestinians have long dwelt. Israel is formally democratic, but the millions of Palestinians that it controls are denied full political rights and the "shared democracy" rationale is correspondingly weakened.

quote： The history of these events is well-understood. When political Zionism began in earnest in the late 19th century, there were only about 15,000 Jews in Palestine. In 1893, for example, the Arabs comprised roughly 95 percent of the population, and though under Ottoman control, they had been in continuous possession of this territory for 1300 years. Even when Israel was founded, Jews were only about 35 percent of Palestine’s population and owned 7 percent of the land.

The mainstream Zionist leadership was not interested in establishing a bi-national state or accepting a permanent partition of Palestine. The Zionist leadership was sometimes willing to accept partition as a first step, but this was a tactical maneuver and not their real objective. As David Ben-Gurion put it in the late 1930s, "After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we shall abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine."

To achieve this goal, the Zionists had to expel large numbers of Arabs from the territory that would eventually become Israel. There was simply no other way to accomplish their objective. Ben-Gurion saw the problem clearly, writing in 1941 that "it is impossible to imagine general evacuation [of the Arab population] without compulsion, and brutal compulsion." Or as Israeli historian Benny Morris puts it, "the idea of transfer is as old as modern Zionism and has accompanied its evolution and praxis during the past century."

This opportunity came in 1947-48, when Jewish forces drove up to 700,000 Palestinians into exile. Israeli officials have long claimed that the Arabs fled because their leaders told them to, but careful scholarship (much of it by Israeli historians like Morris) have demolished this myth. In fact, most Arab leaders urged the Palestinian population to stay home, but fear of violent death at the hands of Zionist forces led most of them to flee. After the war, Israel barred the return of the Palestinian exiles.
The fact that the creation of Israel entailed a moral crime against the Palestinian people was well understood by Israel’s leaders. As Ben-Gurion told Nahum Goldmann, president of the World Jewish Congress, "If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?"

link: The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy - by John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt

 

[Shogun]

....says a racist jew...




It's hilarious to watch jews insist that isreal get a free pass every time it gets caught with its hand in the cookie jar.


That jesus was jewish, and commanded such blank check support, is probably the most significant invention of the hebrew culture.

says someone who hates israel and loves terrorists.

see how that works.

gosh, however did you fight the urge to insist that I want to see dead jews floating in the water, Jillian?

I love HUMANITY And EQUALITY, Jillian.. it's too bad your ethnic common denominator keeps you from admitting the difference between that and your standard issue accusations. It's too bad you'd put your race above concern for both no less than the killers of Emmet Till.

 

[Thunderbird]

The Israelis discriminate against the Palestinians in many ways. Here's an article entitled: UN: Israel must stop discrimination against Arabs, Palestinians

quote: Its 18 independent experts, who examined the records of 13 countries at a four-week meeting in Geneva, also said Israel should cease building a barrier in and around the West Bank and ensure its various checkpoints and road closures do not reinforce segregation.

In its conclusions, the committee also voiced concern at an unequal distribution of water resources, a disproportionate targeting of Palestinians in house demolitions and the "denial of the right of many Palestinians" to return to their land.

Differing applications of criminal law between Jews and Arabs had caused "harsher punishments for Palestinians for the same offence", said the committee, whose recommendations are not legally binding.

A high number of complaints by Arab Israelis against police officers are not properly investigated and many Arabs suffer discriminatory work practices and high unemployment, it said.

link: UN: Israel must stop discrimination against Arabs, Palestinians - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

 

[Thunderbird]

In America we abolished educational segregation. In Israel this is one of many forms of segregation that still exists

quote: Most of the difficult issues that children face in the Palestinian occupied territories result from human rights abuses and illegal acts committed by Israel and its state bodies. These include incarceration of children and their parents without trial, barriers to travel within the West Bank and Gaza, the building of the separation wall / enclosure, denial of basic infrastructure and the systematic and summary closure of many educational institutions.

link: Children in Palestine News

 

[Thunderbird]

since you're new here, i'll assume that you don't know that when a thread is moved, there's a reason. you're more than welcome to do your anti-israel rants in the appropriate forum. i'm moving this thread, again. do not start it again, or you'll be on vacation. thanks

Del, my other thread was different, it was about Christians and Zionists.

Does your use of the word rant indicate a bias against those who oppose Zionism?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Two Words:

Never again.

Rahola then took on the "left" and its hostility to Israel, stating, "Today too, as yesterday, that left is hawking totalitarian ideologies, falls in love with dictators and, in its offensive against Israel, ignores the destruction of fundamental rights. It hates rabbis, but falls in love with imams; shouts against the Tsahal [Israeli Defense Forces], but applauds Hamas' terrorists; weeps for the Palestinian victims, but scorns the Jewish victims, and when it is touched by Palestinian children, it does it only if it can blame the Israelis. It will never denounce the culture of hatred, or its preparation for murder. A year ago, at AIPAC's conference in Washington, I asked the following questions: Why don't we see demonstrations in Europe against the Islamic dictatorships? Why are there no demonstrations against the enslavement of millions of Muslim women? Why don't they declare against the use of bomb-carrying children in the conflicts in which Islam is involved? Why is the left only obsessed with fighting against two of the most solid democracies of the planet, those which have suffered the bloodiest terrorist attacks, the United States and Israel?...Because the left no longer has any ideas, only slogans. It no longer defends rights, but prejudices. And the greatest prejudice of all, is the one it has against Israel. I accuse, then, in a formal manner: the main responsibility of the new anti-Semite hatred, disguised as anti-Zionism, comes from those who should have to defend freedom, solidarity and progress. Far from it, they defend despots, forget their victims and remain silent before medieval ideologies which aim at the destruction of free societies. The treason of the left is an authentic treason against modernity." Remember the words that came out of the era of the Nazis and their hatred for and murder of Jews? Those words "Never Again" were announced in every country after World War II. Let's be totally honest. Those words today almost everywhere in the world are hollow and devoid of meaning.
Those who pride themselves on fairness and conscience, Christians and Jews, must rise up and be heard. Their protests must ring throughout the world. There is no time to waste.
Let me end with a final comment by Ms. Rahola: "I am not Jewish. Ideologically, I am left and by profession a journalist. Why am I not as anti-Israel as my colleagues? Because as a non-Jew, I have the historical responsibility to fight against Jewish hatred and currently against the hatred for their historic homeland, Israel. To fight against anti-Semitism is not the duty of the Jews, it is the duty of the non-Jews. As a journalist, it is my duty to search for the truth beyond prejudice, lies and manipulations. The truth about Israel is not told. As a person from the left who loves progress, I am obligated to defend liberty, culture, civic education for children, coexistence and the laws that the Tablets of the Covenant made into universal principles. Principles that Islamic fundamentalism systematically destroys. That is to say that as a non-Jew, journalist and lefty, I have a triple moral duty with Israel, because if Israel is destroyed, liberty, modernity and culture will be destroyed too. The struggle of Israel, even if the world doesn't want to accept it, is the struggle of the world."

RealClearPolitics - Will We Defend Israel?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Because they have been misinformed.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6hCe6CBwko&has_verified=1[/ame]

 

[CMike]

quote：The "shared democracy" rationale is also weakened by aspects of Israeli democracy that are at odds with core American values. The United States is a liberal democracy where people of any race, religion, or ethnicity are supposed to enjoy equal rights. By contrast, Israel was explicitly founded as a Jewish state and citizenship is based on the principle of blood kinship. Given this conception of citizenship, it is not surprising that Israel’s 1.3 million Arabs are treated as second-class citizens, or that a recent Israeli government commission found that Israel behaves in a "neglectful and discriminatory" manner towards them.

Similarly, Israel does not permit Palestinians who marry Israeli citizens to become citizens themselves, and does not give these spouses the right to live in Israel. The Israeli human rights organization B’tselem called this restriction "a racist law that determines who can live here according to racist criteria." Such laws may be understandable given Israel’s founding principles, but they are not consistent with America’s image of democracy.

Israel’s democratic status is also undermined by its refusal to grant the Palestinians a viable state of their own. Israel controls the lives of about 3.8 million Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, while colonizing lands on which the Palestinians have long dwelt. Israel is formally democratic, but the millions of Palestinians that it controls are denied full political rights and the "shared democracy" rationale is correspondingly weakened.

quote： The history of these events is well-understood. When political Zionism began in earnest in the late 19th century, there were only about 15,000 Jews in Palestine. In 1893, for example, the Arabs comprised roughly 95 percent of the population, and though under Ottoman control, they had been in continuous possession of this territory for 1300 years. Even when Israel was founded, Jews were only about 35 percent of Palestine’s population and owned 7 percent of the land.

The mainstream Zionist leadership was not interested in establishing a bi-national state or accepting a permanent partition of Palestine. The Zionist leadership was sometimes willing to accept partition as a first step, but this was a tactical maneuver and not their real objective. As David Ben-Gurion put it in the late 1930s, "After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we shall abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine."

To achieve this goal, the Zionists had to expel large numbers of Arabs from the territory that would eventually become Israel. There was simply no other way to accomplish their objective. Ben-Gurion saw the problem clearly, writing in 1941 that "it is impossible to imagine general evacuation [of the Arab population] without compulsion, and brutal compulsion." Or as Israeli historian Benny Morris puts it, "the idea of transfer is as old as modern Zionism and has accompanied its evolution and praxis during the past century."

This opportunity came in 1947-48, when Jewish forces drove up to 700,000 Palestinians into exile. Israeli officials have long claimed that the Arabs fled because their leaders told them to, but careful scholarship (much of it by Israeli historians like Morris) have demolished this myth. In fact, most Arab leaders urged the Palestinian population to stay home, but fear of violent death at the hands of Zionist forces led most of them to flee. After the war, Israel barred the return of the Palestinian exiles.
The fact that the creation of Israel entailed a moral crime against the Palestinian people was well understood by Israel’s leaders. As Ben-Gurion told Nahum Goldmann, president of the World Jewish Congress, "If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?"

link: The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy - by John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt

 

[CMike]

Basically americans have two choices. They can either support

The only democracy in the middle east

Arab terrorists who would gladly depose the american system of government and impose a caliph instead

Those are the two choices.

 

[Shogun]

Or, we can treat isreal like jews in america DEMAND to be treated and hold them to the same standards of racial equality that you enjoy, jew boy.

Isn't it sad that pieces of shit like you actually believe, as did whites in the South a mere 60 years ago, that equality would destroy israel? Hell, Biloxi, Mississippi was a democracy the entire time it's residents were stringing ******* up in trees. WHOOPTYFUCKINGDO.

 

[Thunderbird]

It hates rabbis, but falls in love with imams; shouts against the Tsahal [Israeli Defense Forces], but applauds Hamas' terrorists;

Windbag your argument is basically: Forget about all the bad things Israel does - look at those other countries over there - they do bad things too! You are trying to distract people from Israel's policy of ethnic cleansing and discrimination. Nice try but I'm afraid only the real dopes are going to fall for that line of propaganda.

If you were genuinely concerned about promoting reform in the Moslem world you would be the first to demand an end to Israeli bigotry. Right now many Moslems hate America and even sometimes the whole idea of liberal democracy. Why? Because they see America only as a country that abets the mistreatment of Palestinians.

This is America's biggest foreign policy problem. We should end our bias against the Palestinians. Only then can reform movements progress in the Mideast. We should stop fighting wars in Israel's interest (like the Iraq war). We should stop threatening Iran with war. We can not accept the pro-Israel lobby bribing our politicains to betray their country.

 

[Thunderbird]

I don't want to see my country's name dragged in the mud. I hope America does not support this: