Why do patriotic Americans support Zionism?

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Thunderbird, Jun 17, 2010.

  1. Thunderbird
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    Thunderbird Gold Member

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    Why do patriotic Americans support Zionist extremists?

    Should the American taxpayer be compelled to send billions in welfare payments to the state of Israel? Couldn't this money be spent here in the U.S.,or better yet used to reduce our enormous deficit?

    In the 1997 fiscal year, for example, Israel received $3 billion from the foreign aid budget, at least $525 million from other U.S. budgets, and $2 billion in federal loan guarantees. So the 1997 total of U.S. grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion. That’s $15,068,493 per day, 365 days a year.

    quote: As part of the aid, this year Israel will receive $2.5 billion, in 2010 - $2.775 billion, and in 2011 the sum will reach $3 billion. In total, the security aid Tel Aviv is slated to receive from Washington stands at some $30 billion until 2019.

    1) Israel has not shown gratitude. For example, Israel has spied on us and re-exported weapons to America's adversary China.

    quote: Israel has illegally re-exported advanced US defense technology to China. The problem was first recognized in 1992 when the State Department's inspector general reported that there was "overwhelming" evidence of a "systematic and growing pattern" of transfers. Israel has been the primary supplier of advanced defense technology to China since 1989.

    2) Israel does not occupy the moral high ground.

    quote: We condemn Israel's assault on Gaza. As of today , more than 1,000 Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli assault, including at least 335 children and many more civilians. Nearly 5,000 have been wounded, many paralyzed for life. Tens of thousands have fled their homes - but Gaza is entirely sealed off, so there is nowhere to hide, no safe haven for civilians

    3) The American people derive no benefit from their "investment". Unless you consider the lasting enmity of millions living the Middle East (and elsewhere) a benefit.

    4) Israel's extremism endangers American troops according to General Petraeus and Admiral Mullen.

    quote from Petraeus: "The conflict foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel, Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the [region] and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes in the Arab world.

    Meanwhile, al-Qaeda and other militant groups exploit that anger to mobilize support."
     
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  2. Thunderbird
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    Thunderbird Gold Member

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    And now with links:

    Why do patriotic Americans support Zionist extremists?

    Should the American taxpayer be compelled to send billions in welfare payments to the state of Israel? Couldn't this money be spent here in the U.S.,or better yet used to reduce our enormous deficit?

    In the 1997 fiscal year, for example, Israel received $3 billion from the foreign aid budget, at least $525 million from other U.S. budgets, and $2 billion in federal loan guarantees. So the 1997 total of U.S. grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion. That’s $15,068,493 per day, 365 days a year. link: The Cost of Israel to the American People by Richard Curtiss

    quote: As part of the aid, this year Israel will receive $2.5 billion, in 2010 - $2.775 billion, and in 2011 the sum will reach $3 billion. In total, the security aid Tel Aviv is slated to receive from Washington stands at some $30 billion until 2019.
    link: http://www.almanar.com.lb/newssite/NewsDetails.aspx?id=84942&language=en

    1) Israel has not shown gratitude. For example, Israel has spied on us and re-exported weapons to America's adversary China.

    quote: Israel has illegally re-exported advanced US defense technology to China. The problem was first recognized in 1992 when the State Department's inspector general reported that there was "overwhelming" evidence of a "systematic and growing pattern" of transfers. Israel has been the primary supplier of advanced defense technology to China since 1989.
    link: Nuclear and Missile Developments

    2) Israel does not occupy the moral high ground.

    quote: We condemn Israel's assault on Gaza. As of today , more than 1,000 Palestinians have been killed by the Israeli assault, including at least 335 children and many more civilians. Nearly 5,000 have been wounded, many paralyzed for life. Tens of thousands have fled their homes - but Gaza is entirely sealed off, so there is nowhere to hide, no safe haven for civilians
    link: http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/p...cle_1159.shtml

    3) The American people derive no benefit from their "investment". Unless you consider the lasting enmity of millions living the Middle East (and elsewhere) a benefit.

    4) Israel's extremism endangers American troops according to General Petraeus and Admiral Mullen.

    quote from Petraeus: "The conflict foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel, Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the [region] and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes in the Arab world.

    Meanwhile, al-Qaeda and other militant groups exploit that anger to mobilize support."
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2010
  3. CMike
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    CMike Zionist, proud to be

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    :cuckoo:

    • Israel is the only democracy in the middle east
    • Israel is one small country fighting for it's survival against foes many times it's size trying to wipe it out
    • Israel's enemies are America's enemies. The same arab terrorists that attack Israel, are the same ones that attack America, or are linked together
    • Israel supplies critical intelligence information to the US to help it's war on terrorism.
    Once again, the OP displays the normal double standard :cuckoo: All countries spy on other countries, including allies, but, once again, it's only Israel that is singled out when it spys on an ally.
     
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  4. Shogun
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    Shogun Free: Mudholes Stomped

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    ....says a racist jew...


    :rolleyes:

    It's hilarious to watch jews insist that isreal get a free pass every time it gets caught with its hand in the cookie jar.


    That jesus was jewish, and commanded such blank check support, is probably the most significant invention of the hebrew culture.
     
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  5. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    says someone who hates israel and loves terrorists. :thup:

    see how that works.
     
  6. Thunderbird
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    Thunderbird Gold Member

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    Israel has an awful human rights record. Israel in no way respects the values America cherishes.

    Israel has a huge military establishment thanks to the largess of the American taxpayer. No other country has close to Israel's arsenal. Israel possesses a large nuclear stockpile.

    The only reason America is at war with the terrorists is because of our bias toward Israel. Pre-Israel, the U.S. was widely admired in the Mideast, we were a great power that didn't set up colonies. Now we are despised because we supply weapons used to slaughter civilians. Thanks Israel!

    The only reason why American taxpayers are compelled to deliver tons of cash and weapons to Israel is the activities of AIPAC (voted the 2nd most influential lobby in Washington). So the pro-Israel crowd bribes our politicians to put the interests of another country (Israel) over the interests of the American citizen.
     
  7. Thunderbird
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    Thunderbird Gold Member

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    quote: Israel is the largest recipient of U.S. aid since WWII, amounting to some $174 billion (2009 dollars), and about $700/citizen today. Since 1982, the U.S. has vetoed 42 Security Council resolutions critical of Israel, more than the total number of vetoes cast by all the other Security Council members — and this does not even count those that did not come to a vote because of a U.S. veto threat.

    This extraordinarily high degree of economic, military and diplomatic support given to Israel by the United States cannot be explained or justified by the notion that Israel functions as a strategic asset to the U.S., or that Israel as the "only democracy" amidst a sea of authoritarian neighbors is deserving of special favor for its "shared interests and values."

    In fact, Israel is more a liability than an asset. During the Cold War, the strategic-value argument had perhaps some plausibility but no longer. What has replaced the Soviet menace, as the enemy which the U.S. supposedly needed Israel's help to combat, is Islamic terrorism. But the U.S. favor shown to Israel at the expense of the Palestinians only makes us more, not less, vulnerable to terrorism. Further Israel's cruelty towards the Palestinians and its essential nature as a Jewish but not a truly democratic state in which all citizens of whatever ethnicity or religion would be given equal rights and respect, belie the "shared values" argument. Moreover, our military has not been able to use Israel as a base in either Gulf War, nor could we ask it to help for risk of triggering a calamity in the region.

    link: The Arab American News - Israel is more a liability than an asset to the U.S.
     
  8. del
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    del BANNED

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    since you're new here, i'll assume that you don't know that when a thread is moved, there's a reason. you're more than welcome to do your anti-israel rants in the appropriate forum. i'm moving this thread, again. do not start it again, or you'll be on vacation. thanks
     
  9. Thunderbird
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    quote:The "shared democracy" rationale is also weakened by aspects of Israeli democracy that are at odds with core American values. The United States is a liberal democracy where people of any race, religion, or ethnicity are supposed to enjoy equal rights. By contrast, Israel was explicitly founded as a Jewish state and citizenship is based on the principle of blood kinship. Given this conception of citizenship, it is not surprising that Israel’s 1.3 million Arabs are treated as second-class citizens, or that a recent Israeli government commission found that Israel behaves in a "neglectful and discriminatory" manner towards them.

    Similarly, Israel does not permit Palestinians who marry Israeli citizens to become citizens themselves, and does not give these spouses the right to live in Israel. The Israeli human rights organization B’tselem called this restriction "a racist law that determines who can live here according to racist criteria." Such laws may be understandable given Israel’s founding principles, but they are not consistent with America’s image of democracy.

    Israel’s democratic status is also undermined by its refusal to grant the Palestinians a viable state of their own. Israel controls the lives of about 3.8 million Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, while colonizing lands on which the Palestinians have long dwelt. Israel is formally democratic, but the millions of Palestinians that it controls are denied full political rights and the "shared democracy" rationale is correspondingly weakened.

    quote: The history of these events is well-understood. When political Zionism began in earnest in the late 19th century, there were only about 15,000 Jews in Palestine. In 1893, for example, the Arabs comprised roughly 95 percent of the population, and though under Ottoman control, they had been in continuous possession of this territory for 1300 years. Even when Israel was founded, Jews were only about 35 percent of Palestine’s population and owned 7 percent of the land.

    The mainstream Zionist leadership was not interested in establishing a bi-national state or accepting a permanent partition of Palestine. The Zionist leadership was sometimes willing to accept partition as a first step, but this was a tactical maneuver and not their real objective. As David Ben-Gurion put it in the late 1930s, "After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we shall abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine."

    To achieve this goal, the Zionists had to expel large numbers of Arabs from the territory that would eventually become Israel. There was simply no other way to accomplish their objective. Ben-Gurion saw the problem clearly, writing in 1941 that "it is impossible to imagine general evacuation [of the Arab population] without compulsion, and brutal compulsion." Or as Israeli historian Benny Morris puts it, "the idea of transfer is as old as modern Zionism and has accompanied its evolution and praxis during the past century."

    This opportunity came in 1947-48, when Jewish forces drove up to 700,000 Palestinians into exile. Israeli officials have long claimed that the Arabs fled because their leaders told them to, but careful scholarship (much of it by Israeli historians like Morris) have demolished this myth. In fact, most Arab leaders urged the Palestinian population to stay home, but fear of violent death at the hands of Zionist forces led most of them to flee. After the war, Israel barred the return of the Palestinian exiles.
    The fact that the creation of Israel entailed a moral crime against the Palestinian people was well understood by Israel’s leaders. As Ben-Gurion told Nahum Goldmann, president of the World Jewish Congress, "If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?"

    link: The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy - by John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt
     
  10. Shogun
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    gosh, however did you fight the urge to insist that I want to see dead jews floating in the water, Jillian?

    I love HUMANITY And EQUALITY, Jillian.. it's too bad your ethnic common denominator keeps you from admitting the difference between that and your standard issue accusations. It's too bad you'd put your race above concern for both no less than the killers of Emmet Till.


    :thup:
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2010

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