Why do obese people get health insurance?

[anotherlife]

Healthcare, including the ACA is unaffordable...

Incorrect first premise. Try again.

When people HAVE to get a subsidy in order to buy it, it's unaffordable.

He's fallen into the "Obamacare = healthcare" fallacy. But if you want to back someone who doesn't know what he's talking about just to make your boring little speech again, feel free.

Okay, you may have a point that obamacare is not healthcare. But the non-market based 3rd party private "healthcare" industry is not healthcare either, even if it is 14% of the total US economy. Even 3rd world countries do better than this regularly on their national healthcare systems. It is amazing why Americans are so eager to price themselves out of even getting as little as a twisted ankle fixed at some doctor. American people = hacked ATM's?

Okay, you'll have to explain what you mean by " the non-market based 3rd party private 'healthcare' industry." Doctors and hospitals? Help me out here.

The way I understand the history of US healthcare, the system was purely market based before the Nixon administration, that is individual buyers and insurance providers made deals directly with each other, to cover their doctor, med, and hospital costs. Then employers jumped in an created the modern world of group insurance. In this new system, the buyers and the insurers don't make deals with each other, but the 3rd entity, such as the employers do the negotiations. Small and medium employers are mostly pushed out too, and all prices are set by the biggest ones, including large government agencies. This is then not a market economy, because the demand side is not directly interfacing with the supply side.

 

[Arianrhod]

Incorrect first premise. Try again.

When people HAVE to get a subsidy in order to buy it, it's unaffordable.

He's fallen into the "Obamacare = healthcare" fallacy. But if you want to back someone who doesn't know what he's talking about just to make your boring little speech again, feel free.

Okay, you may have a point that obamacare is not healthcare. But the non-market based 3rd party private "healthcare" industry is not healthcare either, even if it is 14% of the total US economy. Even 3rd world countries do better than this regularly on their national healthcare systems. It is amazing why Americans are so eager to price themselves out of even getting as little as a twisted ankle fixed at some doctor. American people = hacked ATM's?

Okay, you'll have to explain what you mean by " the non-market based 3rd party private 'healthcare' industry." Doctors and hospitals? Help me out here.

The way I understand the history of US healthcare, the system was purely market based before the Nixon administration, that is individual buyers and insurance providers made deals directly with each other, to cover their doctor, med, and hospital costs. Then employers jumped in an created the modern world of group insurance. In this new system, the buyers and the insurers don't make deals with each other, but the 3rd entity, such as the employers do the negotiations. Small and medium employers are mostly pushed out too, and all prices are set by the biggest ones, including large government agencies. This is then not a market economy, because the demand side is not directly interfacing with the supply side.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification. I'm not plugged in to how employers negotiate with insurers; I only know that group plans purchased through an employer used to be far more affordable than an individual trying to find a plan with premiums they could afford.

This is why, when an employer suddenly decided to drop their insurance plan (something the boo-birds want you to believe suddenly magically happened the day after the PPACA was implemented, but in fact it's been going on for decades), employees suffered sticker shock.

Under the PPACA, premiums are based on income (with a choice of tiers from a choice of private insurers). So, yes, the insurers do benefit, but they're constrained from the kinds of shenanigans (denial for preexisting conditions, lifetime caps on benefits, etc.) that drove many Americans to bankruptcy or neglect of care and early death.

Even its most ardent supporters will tell you the PPACA is ungainly and could have been far better. But know that any ignoramus who says "Nothing was wrong with the old system! Let's go back to the old system!" is either sucking the corporate teat or living in Mom's basement.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Drop obese people?

Then who do we drop?

smokers?

Drinkers?

Where does your slippery slope end?[/QUOTE

Gays.......higher incidence of aids which aint cheap

 

[Arianrhod]

Drop obese people?

Then who do we drop?

smokers?

Drinkers?

Where does your slippery slope end?[/QUOTE

Gays.......higher incidence of aids which aint cheap

But treatment will be cheaper now that Martin Shkreli got spanked and another company is offering the drug for $.99.

 

[anotherlife]

When people HAVE to get a subsidy in order to buy it, it's unaffordable.

He's fallen into the "Obamacare = healthcare" fallacy. But if you want to back someone who doesn't know what he's talking about just to make your boring little speech again, feel free.

Okay, you may have a point that obamacare is not healthcare. But the non-market based 3rd party private "healthcare" industry is not healthcare either, even if it is 14% of the total US economy. Even 3rd world countries do better than this regularly on their national healthcare systems. It is amazing why Americans are so eager to price themselves out of even getting as little as a twisted ankle fixed at some doctor. American people = hacked ATM's?

Okay, you'll have to explain what you mean by " the non-market based 3rd party private 'healthcare' industry." Doctors and hospitals? Help me out here.

The way I understand the history of US healthcare, the system was purely market based before the Nixon administration, that is individual buyers and insurance providers made deals directly with each other, to cover their doctor, med, and hospital costs. Then employers jumped in an created the modern world of group insurance. In this new system, the buyers and the insurers don't make deals with each other, but the 3rd entity, such as the employers do the negotiations. Small and medium employers are mostly pushed out too, and all prices are set by the biggest ones, including large government agencies. This is then not a market economy, because the demand side is not directly interfacing with the supply side.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification. I'm not plugged in to how employers negotiate with insurers; I only know that group plans purchased through an employer used to be far more affordable than an individual trying to find a plan with premiums they could afford.

This is why, when an employer suddenly decided to drop their insurance plan (something the boo-birds want you to believe suddenly magically happened the day after the PPACA was implemented, but in fact it's been going on for decades), employees suffered sticker shock.

Under the PPACA, premiums are based on income (with a choice of tiers from a choice of private insurers). So, yes, the insurers do benefit, but they're constrained from the kinds of shenanigans (denial for preexisting conditions, lifetime caps on benefits, etc.) that drove many Americans to bankruptcy or neglect of care and early death.

Even its most ardent supporters will tell you the PPACA is ungainly and could have been far better. But know that any ignoramus who says "Nothing was wrong with the old system! Let's go back to the old system!" is either sucking the corporate teat or living in Mom's basement.

I agree that the old system was a shrinking world, pricing everyone out gradually. I think that if at least the new system allows to drop people on pre-existing condition, then it will be okay.

 

[guno]

Incorrect first premise. Try again.

When people HAVE to get a subsidy in order to buy it, it's unaffordable.

He's fallen into the "Obamacare = healthcare" fallacy. But if you want to back someone who doesn't know what he's talking about just to make your boring little speech again, feel free.

Okay, you may have a point that obamacare is not healthcare. But the non-market based 3rd party private "healthcare" industry is not healthcare either, even if it is 14% of the total US economy. Even 3rd world countries do better than this regularly on their national healthcare systems. It is amazing why Americans are so eager to price themselves out of even getting as little as a twisted ankle fixed at some doctor. American people = hacked ATM's?

Okay, you'll have to explain what you mean by " the non-market based 3rd party private 'healthcare' industry." Doctors and hospitals? Help me out here.

The way I understand the history of US healthcare, the system was purely market based before the Nixon administration, that is individual buyers and insurance providers made deals directly with each other, to cover their doctor, med, and hospital costs. Then employers jumped in an created the modern world of group insurance. In this new system, the buyers and the insurers don't make deals with each other, but the 3rd entity, such as the employers do the negotiations. Small and medium employers are mostly pushed out too, and all prices are set by the biggest ones, including large government agencies. This is then not a market economy, because the demand side is not directly interfacing with the supply side.

Wrong health insurance since WW11 has been employer based. Employers added it so as to compete with benefits


Employer-sponsored health insurance plans dramatically expanded as a direct result of wage controls imposed by the federal government during World War II. The labor market was tight because of the increased demand for goods and decreased supply of workers during the war. Federally imposed wage and price controls prohibited manufacturers and other employers from raising wages enough to attract workers. When the War Labor Board declared that fringe benefits, such as sick leave and health insurance, did not count as wages for the purpose of wage controls, employers responded with significantly increased offers of fringe benefits, especially health care coverage, to attract workers.




Health insurance in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[anotherlife]

When people HAVE to get a subsidy in order to buy it, it's unaffordable.

He's fallen into the "Obamacare = healthcare" fallacy. But if you want to back someone who doesn't know what he's talking about just to make your boring little speech again, feel free.

Okay, you may have a point that obamacare is not healthcare. But the non-market based 3rd party private "healthcare" industry is not healthcare either, even if it is 14% of the total US economy. Even 3rd world countries do better than this regularly on their national healthcare systems. It is amazing why Americans are so eager to price themselves out of even getting as little as a twisted ankle fixed at some doctor. American people = hacked ATM's?

Okay, you'll have to explain what you mean by " the non-market based 3rd party private 'healthcare' industry." Doctors and hospitals? Help me out here.

The way I understand the history of US healthcare, the system was purely market based before the Nixon administration, that is individual buyers and insurance providers made deals directly with each other, to cover their doctor, med, and hospital costs. Then employers jumped in an created the modern world of group insurance. In this new system, the buyers and the insurers don't make deals with each other, but the 3rd entity, such as the employers do the negotiations. Small and medium employers are mostly pushed out too, and all prices are set by the biggest ones, including large government agencies. This is then not a market economy, because the demand side is not directly interfacing with the supply side.

Wrong health insurance since WW11 has been employer based. Employers added it so as to compete with benifts

Sounds like a mistake. Only the large national employers of the past that had millions of people in old industrial plants could possibly bank on this on the long run. It doesn't matter though how a market is captured and eliminated, what matters is what a centralized administration does with it, whether governmental or private corporate.

 

[guno]

He's fallen into the "Obamacare = healthcare" fallacy. But if you want to back someone who doesn't know what he's talking about just to make your boring little speech again, feel free.

Okay, you may have a point that obamacare is not healthcare. But the non-market based 3rd party private "healthcare" industry is not healthcare either, even if it is 14% of the total US economy. Even 3rd world countries do better than this regularly on their national healthcare systems. It is amazing why Americans are so eager to price themselves out of even getting as little as a twisted ankle fixed at some doctor. American people = hacked ATM's?

Okay, you'll have to explain what you mean by " the non-market based 3rd party private 'healthcare' industry." Doctors and hospitals? Help me out here.

The way I understand the history of US healthcare, the system was purely market based before the Nixon administration, that is individual buyers and insurance providers made deals directly with each other, to cover their doctor, med, and hospital costs. Then employers jumped in an created the modern world of group insurance. In this new system, the buyers and the insurers don't make deals with each other, but the 3rd entity, such as the employers do the negotiations. Small and medium employers are mostly pushed out too, and all prices are set by the biggest ones, including large government agencies. This is then not a market economy, because the demand side is not directly interfacing with the supply side.

Wrong health insurance since WW11 has been employer based. Employers added it so as to compete with benifts

Sounds like a mistake. Only the large national employers of the past that had millions of people in old industrial plants could possibly bank on this on the long run. It doesn't matter though how a market is captured and eliminated, what matters is what a centralized administration does with it, whether governmental or private corporate.

Nope, I have been around and have worked for small companies in the 1960's that had medical insurance , that is where most people got their insurance from, always has been , that is how they competed with benefits

 

[anotherlife]

Okay, you may have a point that obamacare is not healthcare. But the non-market based 3rd party private "healthcare" industry is not healthcare either, even if it is 14% of the total US economy. Even 3rd world countries do better than this regularly on their national healthcare systems. It is amazing why Americans are so eager to price themselves out of even getting as little as a twisted ankle fixed at some doctor. American people = hacked ATM's?

Okay, you'll have to explain what you mean by " the non-market based 3rd party private 'healthcare' industry." Doctors and hospitals? Help me out here.

The way I understand the history of US healthcare, the system was purely market based before the Nixon administration, that is individual buyers and insurance providers made deals directly with each other, to cover their doctor, med, and hospital costs. Then employers jumped in an created the modern world of group insurance. In this new system, the buyers and the insurers don't make deals with each other, but the 3rd entity, such as the employers do the negotiations. Small and medium employers are mostly pushed out too, and all prices are set by the biggest ones, including large government agencies. This is then not a market economy, because the demand side is not directly interfacing with the supply side.

Wrong health insurance since WW11 has been employer based. Employers added it so as to compete with benifts

Sounds like a mistake. Only the large national employers of the past that had millions of people in old industrial plants could possibly bank on this on the long run. It doesn't matter though how a market is captured and eliminated, what matters is what a centralized administration does with it, whether governmental or private corporate.

Nope, I have been around and have worked for small companies in the 1960's that had medical insurance , that is where most people got their insurance from, always has been , that is how they competed with benefits

And that is the market that consolidated itself into oblivion, and now no small and medium employer can do that any more. Plus you can't hold the bet of waiting for a new job to get health insurance back either, considering current technology levels.

 

[Arianrhod]

^Just to interject here, the PPACA employer mandate does not apply to businesses with 49 or fewer employees.

As for the OP, one of the benefits of having health insurance is that it covers lifestyle choices. People with weight issues can get nutrition counseling, fitness programs, etc. The same applies for smoking cessation and so on.

Important screenings for diabetes, hypertension, hyperlipidemia, thyroid dysfunction, etc. are also covered, sometimes with a small co-pay, depending on the plan you choose.

 

[dblack]

Dumb on top a dumb.

 

[Arianrhod]

Dumb on top a dumb.

What is? The employer mandate, screening people for common illnesses, helping people who want to change unhealthy lifestyles, or all of the above?