Why do conservatives think that life has inherent value?

In the United States, we were founded by a document called the Declaration of Independence, which stated

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

Declaration of Independence - Text Transcript

The Founders did not explicitly invoke the power of the Christian God, but did make it clear that the existence of a Creator God was necessary as a foundation for freedom of the individuals.
We were not founded by the Declaration of Independence. It has no legal weight. Legal rights are not inalienable. The fact that you can be executed or imprisoned shows this.

And by the way, the Nazis favored an all powerful state, with one leader with total control of the nation. No conservative ever believed in that, so it is ridiculous to call the Nazis "right wing."
Totalitarianism is right wing. Anarchy is left wing. Do you even know what the spectrum means?

Looks like the liberal Democrats aren't far behind them when it comes to looking like Nazi's.

Has your blood soaked Nobel Champion Of Peace bombed any sovereign nations lately without Congressional approval thereby murdering thousands of innocent people?

Can you say WAR CRIMINAL?

******CHUCKLE*****



:)
You mean like how Bush the war criminal did?
 
You double downed on nonsense
It's not hard. Nothing is objective. We live in a subjective reality. This means that nothing has inherent value. This means that life has no inherent value. Value is a relative concept which varies by the beholder. The closest we can get to the objective value you want is to impose it by means of the state, which is the ultimate - yet still subjective - power in a culture. Taking a life defined by the state as having value is wrong. Taking a life not defined as such is okay, and potentially even laudable. The serial killer is a monster. The abortionist is a noble professional. The deranged rapist is evil. The soldier is respectable.
 
This is false. Nothing has "inherent" value because nothing is objective. Everything is ultimately a subjective, relative opinion rooted in culture. The only value life may have is that assigned to it by the local culture, which typically occurs through the decisions of its government. A particular life has "value" because the government decides that it does and enforces that decision with the legal system. This is why killing and murder are two different things. All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder. Non-murderous killing is the killing of a legally unprotected life, which is morally neutral at worst because the state has not seen fit to declare that life worthy of protection. There are times when killing is the morally upright thing to do, such as in the case of an intruder into your body or home. You have the right to self defense, whether against an unwanted and hence valueless fetus or an unwanted and hence valueless guest.


This is quite a bit of sophistry. Im impressed.
 
You double downed on nonsense
It's not hard. Nothing is objective. We live in a subjective reality. This means that nothing has inherent value. This means that life has no inherent value. Value is a relative concept which varies by the beholder. The closest we can get to the objective value you want is to impose it by means of the state, which is the ultimate - yet still subjective - power in a culture. Taking a life defined by the state as having value is wrong. Taking a life not defined as such is okay, and potentially even laudable. The serial killer is a monster. The abortionist is a noble professional. The deranged rapist is evil. The soldier is respectable.

Sorry but I'm in the firm belief life has value.
 
You double downed on nonsense
It's not hard. Nothing is objective. We live in a subjective reality. This means that nothing has inherent value. This means that life has no inherent value. Value is a relative concept which varies by the beholder. The closest we can get to the objective value you want is to impose it by means of the state, which is the ultimate - yet still subjective - power in a culture. Taking a life defined by the state as having value is wrong. Taking a life not defined as such is okay, and potentially even laudable. The serial killer is a monster. The abortionist is a noble professional. The deranged rapist is evil. The soldier is respectable.

Sorry but I'm in the firm belief life has value.


The op's rants are that of a nihilist. They're worthless people.
 
Looks like the liberal Democrats aren't far behind them when it comes to looking like Nazi's.

Has your blood soaked Nobel Champion Of Peace bombed any sovereign nations lately without Congressional approval thereby murdering thousands of innocent people?

Can you say WAR CRIMINAL?

******CHUCKLE*****



:)
You mean like how Bush the war criminal did?


images


Last time I checked Bush had Congressional and UN approval to wage war in the countries he sent troops into... He also didn't leave an embassy in the countries he attacked undefended, in countries that he left with little to no government, so the embassy personnel could be slaughtered like some incompetents who are currently president and running for president did.

*****CHUCKLE*****



:)
 
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Pedro, seriously, you sound like a sociopath, and I wish I could write you off as an extremist, but you represent a belief held by millions of people, including the most wealthy of our society.
 
Sorry but I'm in the firm belief life has value.
This is because you do not understand the nature of our reality. It's more or less a type of insanity. I'm trying to heal you of this if you would let me.

The op's rants are that of a nihilist. They're worthless people.
I'm not a nihilist. Things do have value, because we subjectively defined them as such. What they don't have is inherent value. Our most powerful institution is that of the state. That is what decides these things.

It's actually saying that black lives don't matter at all.
Black lives do matter. The government says they do, which is why they have personhood.

Pedro, seriously, you sound like a sociopath, and I wish I could write you off as an extremist, but you represent a belief held by millions of people, including the most wealthy of our society.
None of this is sociopathic or extreme. Millions of people do understand it. The Democratic platform is based on it. It's just a few delusional backwoods rednecks who do not.
 
This is false. Nothing has "inherent" value because nothing is objective. Everything is ultimately a subjective, relative opinion rooted in culture. The only value life may have is that assigned to it by the local culture, which typically occurs through the decisions of its government. A particular life has "value" because the government decides that it does and enforces that decision with the legal system. This is why killing and murder are two different things. All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder. Non-murderous killing is the killing of a legally unprotected life, which is morally neutral at worst because the state has not seen fit to declare that life worthy of protection. There are times when killing is the morally upright thing to do, such as in the case of an intruder into your body or home. You have the right to self defense, whether against an unwanted and hence valueless fetus or an unwanted and hence valueless guest.

Does this mean someone can arbitrarily decide how much value your life has?

You may be right that society may decide how much a human life is worth because it is pretty obvious that some societies don't value human life at all. I prefer to live in one where people do value human life because it might make us more compassionate and nicer to one another.
 
This is false. Nothing has "inherent" value because nothing is objective. Everything is ultimately a subjective, relative opinion rooted in culture. The only value life may have is that assigned to it by the local culture, which typically occurs through the decisions of its government. A particular life has "value" because the government decides that it does and enforces that decision with the legal system. This is why killing and murder are two different things. All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder. Non-murderous killing is the killing of a legally unprotected life, which is morally neutral at worst because the state has not seen fit to declare that life worthy of protection. There are times when killing is the morally upright thing to do, such as in the case of an intruder into your body or home. You have the right to self defense, whether against an unwanted and hence valueless fetus or an unwanted and hence valueless guest.
What a pile of relativistic moral garbage.

You cede the right to define your morality to the government and you get exactly what the others have pointed out - the worst atrocities in history. By this asinine construct, what the Nazi's did was perfectly moral. Slavery is just fine and dandy. North Korea has done nothing wrong with its prison camps. You should be behind Iraq and the torture camps as well - those were government sanctioned after all.

Bullshit.
 
You have nailed it right on the head, Pedro, you have admitted the truth that most leftists are afraid to say out loud.

The answer is this: if you don't believe there is a God, then the state recognizes itself as the highest power, with the power to take human life with total impunity.

And that is what happened with the Nazis and Communists. Once these groups rejected God, there was no way to stop their genocides and wars of conquest.

If you are an atheist, you may still beleive it is wrong to kill people. But as you think it over, you will find there is no foundation for that belief -- other than the existence of God.
Also bullshit.

A lot of religious people like to think this way about atheists but if YOU really thin about it this is rooted in a superiority complex.

There is nothing foreign to an atheist about morality - it is rooted in our very existence. Just because I see morality as biologically driven rather than driven by a God does not mean that i cannot find meaning or purpose behind morality. Natural morality and natural rights are no different if they are a condition of being part of mankind or of being a construct of a God - in the end they are still the same thing.
 
This is false. Nothing has "inherent" value because nothing is objective. Everything is ultimately a subjective, relative opinion rooted in culture. The only value life may have is that assigned to it by the local culture, which typically occurs through the decisions of its government. A particular life has "value" because the government decides that it does and enforces that decision with the legal system. This is why killing and murder are two different things. All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder. Non-murderous killing is the killing of a legally unprotected life, which is morally neutral at worst because the state has not seen fit to declare that life worthy of protection. There are times when killing is the morally upright thing to do, such as in the case of an intruder into your body or home. You have the right to self defense, whether against an unwanted and hence valueless fetus or an unwanted and hence valueless guest.

Does this mean someone can arbitrarily decide how much value your life has?

You may be right that society may decide how much a human life is worth because it is pretty obvious that some societies don't value human life at all. I prefer to live in one where people do value human life because it might make us more compassionate and nicer to one another.
We will see how much he agrees with that idea when it is him who is under the chopping block. I think that his life will still, somehow, hold value to himself when all others have declared it 'worthless.'
 
images


So in contrast you're saying that all progressives think life has no inherent value.

That sounds familiar...

*****SMILE*****



:)
And of course conservatives immediately equate right wing Nazism with left wing Progressivism when they're the exact opposite of each other. The GOP is far more similar to the Nazi party than any other US political party.


In their dismissal of Objective Morality (such as the inherent value of human life) they are on the same page as you and the opposite page of US cons.
 
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I won't insult or discourage Pedro, because he has admitted the truth that most liberals will lie about.

The truth is that the left is godless, and without the boundaries of ethical behavior created by religion, there is nothing an all powerful state is not permitted to do.
 
This is false. Nothing has "inherent" value because nothing is objective. Everything is ultimately a subjective, relative opinion rooted in culture. The only value life may have is that assigned to it by the local culture, which typically occurs through the decisions of its government. A particular life has "value" because the government decides that it does and enforces that decision with the legal system. This is why killing and murder are two different things. All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder. Non-murderous killing is the killing of a legally unprotected life, which is morally neutral at worst because the state has not seen fit to declare that life worthy of protection. There are times when killing is the morally upright thing to do, such as in the case of an intruder into your body or home. You have the right to self defense, whether against an unwanted and hence valueless fetus or an unwanted and hence valueless guest.

Since your only value is the baseline of "living human being", I think you might want to rethink convincing people to view that as negotiable. Could be you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.
 
images


So in contrast you're saying that all progressives think life has no inherent value.

That sounds familiar...

*****SMILE*****



:)
And of course conservatives immediately equate right wing Nazism with left wing Progressivism when they're the exact opposite of each other. The GOP is far more similar to the Nazi party than any other US political party.


National socialism...
 
We should turn this around and say all life has equal value. Do you think that people who don't think that life has inherited value would value their own lives as much as the lives of the people that they consider disposable. These same people always think other people's lives have no value but they expect others to value their own. It seems rather unfair.
 
Sorry but I'm in the firm belief life has value.
This is because you do not understand the nature of our reality. It's more or less a type of insanity. I'm trying to heal you of this if you would let me.

The op's rants are that of a nihilist. They're worthless people.
I'm not a nihilist. Things do have value, because we subjectively defined them as such. What they don't have is inherent value. Our most powerful institution is that of the state. That is what decides these things.

It's actually saying that black lives don't matter at all.
Black lives do matter. The government says they do, which is why they have personhood.

Pedro, seriously, you sound like a sociopath, and I wish I could write you off as an extremist, but you represent a belief held by millions of people, including the most wealthy of our society.
None of this is sociopathic or extreme. Millions of people do understand it. The Democratic platform is based on it. It's just a few delusional backwoods rednecks who do not.

Yes, we all have inherent value.
 

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