why do Blacks use welfare at 6 times the rate of Whites?

[OohPooPahDoo]

characteristics and financial circumstances - fy 2008

actually it is more than 6 times but that is nitpicking. Why are blacks so vulnerable to being incapable of taking care of themselves? The numbers for using govt handout programs are even more skewed. Why do so many blacks settle for a marginal parasitic lifestyle?

Why do so many blacks fail to acquire lifeskills necessary for middleclass living? Is it capability, substandard values and culture or is it just racism and lack of opportunity?

Has affirmative action run into the brick wall of human capital? Is it possible to drag more blacks into the middleclass by handing out more govt and aa jobs to underqualified minorities or have we reached the point of diminished returns?

answer: Lack of start up capital

 

[Zona]

Dayum! Facts are just so.... racist.

It could have something to do with Non equality for so long in this country. You do realize we are the only race IN THIS COUNTRY who were slaves here. It takes a long long time to turn that off and just 50 years ago, we couldn't even vote. We couldn't eat where we wanted, was always the last to be hired etc etc...Again, there are so many repercussions of our own past and it takes time.

There are so many black upper/middle class people now. It takes time for this to increase but it has increased even in my lifetime.

Before you start, of course you didnt own slaves. I guarantee you though, someone in your past benefited from blacks being slaves/someone taking advantage of blacks in your family's history. Again, it takes time and we are too close to the changes made fairly recently. I am a middle class black man who's daughter is in college. No one in my family is on welfare but I know a few of their parents who were. Things are getting better as time passes but again, in my life time, SO MUCH HAS CHANGED.

The future looks so damn good for Blacks.

 

[Zona]

If all races started on a level playing field than the blacks are last to develop there skills other than physical. Reason and cause for slavery.

Oh just a few more facts,racism is not illegal just not nice,Abe Lincoln was a republican.

If the Blacks do not like the way there share of America is then why have they been Voting for the Democrats for the last 40 years.

If Obama is going to prove anything it will be that the politicans only make things worse with inabling people. Your piece of American is there and you have to work for it not expect it to be handed to you.

Blacks were selectively bred from about 1700-1850. Slave owners/traders would use big strong men as studs, to create a more profitable product. Blacks did not develop "their physical skills", per se, in a way that would allow them to become compenetent at sports.

As for the whole singing/music thing.....I don't see blacks as superior performers.

Blacks vote Democratic because too many Republicans are white southern and midwestern Christian conservatives.....basically the sons and daughters of former segregationists and KKK folks. I don't blame them for not being Republican

 

[Zona]

Just goes to show you what a horrific institution slavery and Jim Crow..actually were.

Poverty like wealth is inherited. Two fold if you live in a country that regards skin color as a basis for intellect, ability, integrity and merit.

 

[Zona]

Just goes to show you what a horrific institution slavery and Jim Crow..actually were.

Poverty like wealth is inherited. Two fold if you live in a country that regards skin color as a basis for intellect, ability, integrity and merit.

a vote for racism and lack of opportunity. you have a valid point. would you care to give your opinion on how much of the problem is directly related to racism etc compared to the other factors?

164 of years of slavery and about 3 or so more decades of Jim Crow is suddenly wiped out by 26 or so years of "equality".

Man you guys stink at math.

26 years....get over it. Every thing is equal now. blah blah..

If a person is honest about this all they know it will take time for generational welfare recipients to get off welfare. It is changing. I personally dont know any black person on welfare...certainly not anyone in my family or any of my friends.

My question is, why are there so many whites on welfare. What the hell is their excuse? They didnt have to deal with what we have in our past.

Here is the good thing about our future. The old racists are dying off. They really are but as long as they are around (and they saw a totally different america back in the 60's and before) it will be a bad thing for america.

This is why you hear things like....lets take our country back or how they miss the good ol days.

 

[Zona]

Imagine coming back from vietnam in the early 60's and being black. You couldn't eat in certain places even when in uniform. You had to ride on the back of the bush even in uniform. Lets say you got injured and lost a leg or something and yet some guy in Alabama is calling you boy and there is nothing you can do about it.

You actually expect that mindset to suddenly change because of a law passed a little later? Those fucking people are still alive unfortunatly.

 

[Tank]

Blacks had hundreds of years for a head start.

 

[Ernie S.]

Dayum! Facts are just so.... racist.

It could have something to do with Non equality for so long in this country. You do realize we are the only race IN THIS COUNTRY who were slaves here. It takes a long long time to turn that off and just 50 years ago, we couldn't even vote. We couldn't eat where we wanted, was always the last to be hired etc etc...Again, there are so many repercussions of our own past and it takes time.

There are so many black upper/middle class people now. It takes time for this to increase but it has increased even in my lifetime.

Before you start, of course you didnt own slaves. I guarantee you though, someone in your past benefited from blacks being slaves/someone taking advantage of blacks in your family's history. Again, it takes time and we are too close to the changes made fairly recently. I am a middle class black man who's daughter is in college. No one in my family is on welfare but I know a few of their parents who were. Things are getting better as time passes but again, in my life time, SO MUCH HAS CHANGED.

The future looks so damn good for Blacks.

The future does indeed look good, if your family becomes a role model.

I'm apparently a lot older than you, so I have a perspective you lack. When I was a kid, blacks actually had a lower percentage of divorce and single parent homes than whites. They were hard working ethical people. Somewhere in the mid 60's that turned around to the point where many young black men, in stead of providing for their families, have 2, 3 or more "baby mommies", all raising children that have a less than even chance of joining the middle class. Kudos to your parents for not falling, or allowing you to fall into that trap.
We can sit here and argue all day about what caused the disintegration of the black family. I have my opinion, but I don't want to argue that point here.
Suffice it to say, had the events that took place starting in the early to mid 60's not happened, far more of your race would be in the position you find yourself.
If as I posit, the events of the last 50 years caused this dramatic disintegration, your attempt to blame the plight of blacks on slavery and/or Jim Crow fall far short.
As far as my family, interestingly enough, I did recently find (only) one source that claimed my mother's family did own 3 house slaves at some point before the revolution. This man, had apparently freed his slaves by 1790.

As a side note, He was the only person to sign the Declaration of Independence, The Articles of Confederation and the US Constitution.

 

[Tank]

Clearly it's slavery and racism holding black folks back, because blacks are doing so great in the rest of the world.

 

[IanC]

Negative social traits and the dysfunctional aspects of black culture were created by environmental conditions specific to the US between 1640-1970. African Europeans do not have dissproportianate wefare, illliteracy, infant mortality, and educational stats compared to other races. In Europe, middle eastern Europeans have the dissproportianate stats.

There is something about the process of stripping african American slaves of thier family identities, then denying them equal human rights, that caused the long term social disadvantages we see amongst blacks in the US...IMO The difference between other groups who came to America and were oppressed...like the Irish, Italians, and Asians for example...all retained thier family structure.

Where I do agree with you is how chronic welfare system manipulators need to be shut out, and that I why I oppose Democratic attempts to soften the Clinton welfare reforms and stand in the way of further reforms.

Thanks for the clarification as to why you created this thread. I take back anything that may have been insulting.

thanks for that last part. I enjoy playing Devil's Advocate but in reality I have retained a lot of 70's liberal attitudes. I just think we should carefully examine problems and the enacted 'solutions' to see if they are reflecting reality.

I think you may be wrong about africans in Europe. they are one of many minority groups that are having a difficult time assimilating into european culture. for instance, in France there are ghetto-like areas in many cities where the immigrants cannot or will not acquire the education and qualifications necessary to work in a highly technological society. many stop trying, and sit around on govt assistance harbouring a growing resentment against a lifestyle they have not attained. or the nordic countries that have sexual assaults that are almost completely commited by immigrants who think swedish girls deserve it because of how they dress and act. should the Swedes change their culture or should the immigrants adopt swedish values?

My only experience with African Europeans were German and British AEs'. This same subject actualy came up when I was speaking with British AE freinds of mine in Reading in the UK. I was told AE's in Europe don't share the long term social disadvantages that African Americans did, and still do. Europe abandoned slavery...IN Europe...long before Americans did. Now you've got my cusriosity going....think I'll google me up some European crime stats by race if I can find them.

If Republicans get their way...and do away with public education in the US...we're going to have the majority of our society unable to acquire the education and qualifications necessary to work in a highly technological society.

I thought Swedish immigration was mostly middle eastern?.....once again....my curiosity.

EDIT>>>>>>>>>>>..........check this out.

Police statistics shed fresh light on link between crime and race - Telegraph

swedish immigration is mostly middle eastern. I was pointing out an example of how diferent value systems can clash.

your link from England is interesting. I think it is unfortunate that many black communities suffer from excess crime and the extra policing that would be very useful for the ordinary good citizens is seen as police racism and intimidation, at least in the media. no win situation for the police, all lose situation for those who could more protection.

 

[High_Gravity]

Shit, Mexicans come illegaly here from Mexico everyday without money and can't speak the language, and they are doing better then blacks.

How do you figure that?

Unemployment, prison populations, dropouts.......

The Mexicans that come here illegally are not standing up to be accounted for, there is no way to know for sure whos doing what. How is coming here illegally and working an under the table job being better than a Black person? as soon as you cross that border without papers you are committing a crime.

 

[High_Gravity]

Blacks had hundreds of years for a head start.

When did this happen?

 

[Tank]

Blacks had hundreds of years for a head start.

When did this happen?

In Africa

 

[toxicmedia]

Blacks had hundreds of years for a head start.

When did this happen?

In Africa

You know......Mr Tank......I don't know you, so I can't tell if you're being facecious.....if you're not joking.....that is perhaps the most retarded thing I've ever heard anybody say.

I really hope you're kidding.

 

[toxicmedia]

thanks for that last part. I enjoy playing Devil's Advocate but in reality I have retained a lot of 70's liberal attitudes. I just think we should carefully examine problems and the enacted 'solutions' to see if they are reflecting reality.

I think you may be wrong about africans in Europe. they are one of many minority groups that are having a difficult time assimilating into european culture. for instance, in France there are ghetto-like areas in many cities where the immigrants cannot or will not acquire the education and qualifications necessary to work in a highly technological society. many stop trying, and sit around on govt assistance harbouring a growing resentment against a lifestyle they have not attained. or the nordic countries that have sexual assaults that are almost completely commited by immigrants who think swedish girls deserve it because of how they dress and act. should the Swedes change their culture or should the immigrants adopt swedish values?

My only experience with African Europeans were German and British AEs'. This same subject actualy came up when I was speaking with British AE freinds of mine in Reading in the UK. I was told AE's in Europe don't share the long term social disadvantages that African Americans did, and still do. Europe abandoned slavery...IN Europe...long before Americans did. Now you've got my cusriosity going....think I'll google me up some European crime stats by race if I can find them.

If Republicans get their way...and do away with public education in the US...we're going to have the majority of our society unable to acquire the education and qualifications necessary to work in a highly technological society.

I thought Swedish immigration was mostly middle eastern?.....once again....my curiosity.

EDIT>>>>>>>>>>>..........check this out.

Police statistics shed fresh light on link between crime and race - Telegraph

swedish immigration is mostly middle eastern. I was pointing out an example of how diferent value systems can clash.

your link from England is interesting. I think it is unfortunate that many black communities suffer from excess crime and the extra policing that would be very useful for the ordinary good citizens is seen as police racism and intimidation, at least in the media. no win situation for the police, all lose situation for those who could more protection.

What I took away from that article was a little different. I'm not really concerned about how protected British white folks may be from blacks.

What struck me is how current racial prejudices still factor into poverty levels amongst the demographics in question, and how the long term social disadvantages combined with that can possibly be the entire reason for what we see. The only other possible factor is racial inferiority....and from the standpoint of a former Anthropology major....that's not possible.

 

[Tank]

When did this happen?

In Africa

You know......Mr Tank......I don't know you, so I can't tell if you're being facecious.....if you're not joking.....that is perhaps the most retarded thing I've ever heard anybody say.

I really hope you're kidding.

Kidding about what?

Blacks were the first and only humans on earth for thousands of years before other races evolved.

 

[IanC]

characteristics and financial circumstances - fy 2008

actually it is more than 6 times but that is nitpicking. Why are blacks so vulnerable to being incapable of taking care of themselves? The numbers for using govt handout programs are even more skewed. Why do so many blacks settle for a marginal parasitic lifestyle?

Why do so many blacks fail to acquire lifeskills necessary for middleclass living? Is it capability, substandard values and culture or is it just racism and lack of opportunity?

Has affirmative action run into the brick wall of human capital? Is it possible to drag more blacks into the middleclass by handing out more govt and aa jobs to underqualified minorities or have we reached the point of diminished returns?

answer: Lack of start up capital

I wonder if you understand what I mean by human capital or the implications of it.

if you lay down a list of jobs that need to be filled to run a modern technological society and then match it up to the population with its natural variation of character and intelligence, how does it match up? are there enough individuals with the neccessary intelligence and drive to become competent doctors, engineers, leaders, tradesmen etc? is it better to have a surplus of high ability individuals so that even less prestigious jobs can attract competent people? of course.

blacks have a lower average intelligence which leads to a lower competence in jobs needing understanding in complex and abstract thought. there are not enough candidates to fill the upper echelon jobs in black societies. not only that but less competent individuals are, by neccessity, used in jobs that they are likely to fail in simply because there is no one better. and the next tier of jobs is now missing the individuals who were taken above even though they didnt have the qualifications. this mismatch continues all the way down and is one of the main reasons why it appears as if blacks are less competent in society. if they were allowed to seek a more natural level they would perform as well as others but when they are put into a situation were they are woefully underqualified it should be no surprise that they are more likely to fail than others who are qualified.

which person is more likely to be proficient at being a teacher? an IQ85 black or an IQ100 white (both are racially average). in most cases it would be the white and state competency exams bear this out. but what would happen in the case of equally intelligent black and white individuals? it is doubtful that there would be a significant difference.

unfortunately society most often compares on a strictly racial basis and ignores individual attributes, abilities and attainments.

 

[toxicmedia]

In Africa

You know......Mr Tank......I don't know you, so I can't tell if you're being facecious.....if you're not joking.....that is perhaps the most retarded thing I've ever heard anybody say.

I really hope you're kidding.

Kidding about what?

Blacks were the first and only humans on earth for thousands of years before other races evolved.

It's really wrong to attribute all those millions of years of early homonid development in Africa to some kind of "head start" for blacks in the US and Europe after 1630.

Sure enough...early homonids seem to have started in Africa. But racial differences in homo sapiens today are merely adaptations to various climates. Tecdhnology development happened based on need. For example...equatorial peoples didn't ever have the need for shelter that keeps them from freezing to death. The Nordic peoples that survived natural selection had small noses and narrow nasal passages, so cold air couldn't get in as fast. There are millions of variations in homo sapiens these days and I don't know of any that include an intellectual inferiority or superiority

I think you're oversimplfying this.

 

[IanC]

My only experience with African Europeans were German and British AEs'. This same subject actualy came up when I was speaking with British AE freinds of mine in Reading in the UK. I was told AE's in Europe don't share the long term social disadvantages that African Americans did, and still do. Europe abandoned slavery...IN Europe...long before Americans did. Now you've got my cusriosity going....think I'll google me up some European crime stats by race if I can find them.

If Republicans get their way...and do away with public education in the US...we're going to have the majority of our society unable to acquire the education and qualifications necessary to work in a highly technological society.

I thought Swedish immigration was mostly middle eastern?.....once again....my curiosity.

EDIT>>>>>>>>>>>..........check this out.

Police statistics shed fresh light on link between crime and race - Telegraph

swedish immigration is mostly middle eastern. I was pointing out an example of how diferent value systems can clash.

your link from England is interesting. I think it is unfortunate that many black communities suffer from excess crime and the extra policing that would be very useful for the ordinary good citizens is seen as police racism and intimidation, at least in the media. no win situation for the police, all lose situation for those who could more protection.

What I took away from that article was a little different. I'm not really concerned about how protected British white folks may be from blacks.

What struck me is how current racial prejudices still factor into poverty levels amongst the demographics in question, and how the long term social disadvantages combined with that can possibly be the entire reason for what we see. The only other possible factor is racial inferiority....and from the standpoint of a former Anthropology major....that's not possible.

I'm sorry that I didnt explain myself more clearly. majority minority communities often have both more perps and more victims. increased policing commiserate with the amount of crime would benifit potential victims but at the 'cost' of directing more policing at potential minority criminals. is this a reasonable trade off or should the dominant society just accept that certain areas have a different set of values and ignore the discrepancies?

as an anthropology student you believe that humans develope different physical traits and behavioural traits for different conditions but somehow brain characteristics wereleft unchanged. it is interesting how political correctness has corrupted logical conclusions.

 

[Zona]

Dayum! Facts are just so.... racist.

It could have something to do with Non equality for so long in this country. You do realize we are the only race IN THIS COUNTRY who were slaves here. It takes a long long time to turn that off and just 50 years ago, we couldn't even vote. We couldn't eat where we wanted, was always the last to be hired etc etc...Again, there are so many repercussions of our own past and it takes time.

There are so many black upper/middle class people now. It takes time for this to increase but it has increased even in my lifetime.

Before you start, of course you didnt own slaves. I guarantee you though, someone in your past benefited from blacks being slaves/someone taking advantage of blacks in your family's history. Again, it takes time and we are too close to the changes made fairly recently. I am a middle class black man who's daughter is in college. No one in my family is on welfare but I know a few of their parents who were. Things are getting better as time passes but again, in my life time, SO MUCH HAS CHANGED.

The future looks so damn good for Blacks.

The future does indeed look good, if your family becomes a role model.

I'm apparently a lot older than you, so I have a perspective you lack. When I was a kid, blacks actually had a lower percentage of divorce and single parent homes than whites. They were hard working ethical people. Somewhere in the mid 60's that turned around to the point where many young black men, in stead of providing for their families, have 2, 3 or more "baby mommies", all raising children that have a less than even chance of joining the middle class. Kudos to your parents for not falling, or allowing you to fall into that trap.
We can sit here and argue all day about what caused the disintegration of the black family. I have my opinion, but I don't want to argue that point here.
Suffice it to say, had the events that took place starting in the early to mid 60's not happened, far more of your race would be in the position you find yourself.
If as I posit, the events of the last 50 years caused this dramatic disintegration, your attempt to blame the plight of blacks on slavery and/or Jim Crow fall far short.
As far as my family, interestingly enough, I did recently find (only) one source that claimed my mother's family did own 3 house slaves at some point before the revolution. This man, had apparently freed his slaves by 1790.

As a side note, He was the only person to sign the Declaration of Independence, The Articles of Confederation and the US Constitution.

You are exactly who I am talking about. You actually believe the 60's were the good ol days. They may have been for you, but not us. There were very few middle class and even less upper class blacks back then compaired to now. That in itself proves my point. We are doing much much better now.

Those are not good ol days for us. You see what you want to see now but I dont.

AGain...no one in my family or circle of black friends are on or even close to welfare. I will repeat...YOU SEE WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE.