Why do Americans take away health insurance when a person loses a job?

[Procrustes Stretched]

Of course it's an issue. Why the fuck should I be forced to pay for coverage I will never need?

It's bad enough the fucking government confiscates my money and wastes it on all kinds of shit but now the fucking government is telling me I have to waste my own money by paying for coverage I don't need.

yet another nut case who views taxes as confiscation

in a representative democracy taxes are not confiscation taxes are voluntary

Taxes are voluntary ? In what way are they voluntary ? Simple, don't pay your taxes, and you will lose something or may even go to jail...... People have no problem with paying taxes, because they know that this is a nessesity for government that represents them to then exist, and also to get things done on their behalf for them, ((((but))))) as you know the problem comes, when government starts using that money in ways that no longer represents those for whom it was taken up from, so they begin to see government as corrupt, and therefore seek to change it out quickly because of, or to then remove those from power whom are making it corrupt....

In a Republican form of government where we have representative democracy, the taxes are approved by our elected representatives.

civics 101

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It is an issue for a lot of people what a policy covers. If someone is willing and able to pay for medical services and medication a la carte, what's the harm in them not opting to buy insurance coverage?

If your answer is that it's necessary to help other people who can't afford their own coverage, I'd say that's a wonderful, humanitarian outlook from which you're preaching, but the necessity for everyone to help each other is a function of your morality.

When you decide to use the force of government to enforce your morality, you're no different from the evangelicals voting down gay marriage rights. No different from the Republicans who watched reefer madness and then decided it was their civic duty to make sure that nobody has -too- much fun.

we live in a society where we do NOT turn people away from emergency medical treatment. So we all pay for each other.

The whole idea of freedom and liberty is a morality play.

freedom and liberty exist because human beings assert so. Human constructs are morality plays

Freedom and Liberty is earned, and yes morality plays the most important part of it, in which is to be found in the total package for sure, but so does the rest of the things that make up the human character in which we trust in our society as well.... We as a nation have always looked at "good character' as being the main component of what gives us Freedom and our Liberty in this nation. Trust is born out of having good character, and then we are to apply that character in order to obtain our liberty and our freedoms.

Golden Rule 4 Dante: Judge People by what they do, not what they say alone

 

[beagle9]

yet another nut case who views taxes as confiscation

in a representative democracy taxes are not confiscation taxes are voluntary

Taxes are voluntary ? In what way are they voluntary ? Simple, don't pay your taxes, and you will lose something or may even go to jail...... People have no problem with paying taxes, because they know that this is a nessesity for government that represents them to then exist, and also to get things done on their behalf for them, ((((but))))) as you know the problem comes, when government starts using that money in ways that no longer represents those for whom it was taken up from, so they begin to see government as corrupt, and therefore seek to change it out quickly because of, or to then remove those from power whom are making it corrupt....

In a Republican form of government where we have representative democracy, the taxes are approved by our elected representatives.

civics 101

You said that "taxes are not confiscation, but are instead voluntary".... What do you mean by this in the way in which it was layed out by you ?

You have used the word confiscation in the same sentence with voluntary, as pertaining to what (I'm guessing), to be in regards to the collection of taxes or the paying of ones taxes in the nation, yet meaning what when you formed this sentence against another like you have now done ?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Taxes are voluntary ? In what way are they voluntary ? Simple, don't pay your taxes, and you will lose something or may even go to jail...... People have no problem with paying taxes, because they know that this is a nessesity for government that represents them to then exist, and also to get things done on their behalf for them, ((((but))))) as you know the problem comes, when government starts using that money in ways that no longer represents those for whom it was taken up from, so they begin to see government as corrupt, and therefore seek to change it out quickly because of, or to then remove those from power whom are making it corrupt....

In a Republican form of government where we have representative democracy, the taxes are approved by our elected representatives.

civics 101

You said that "taxes are not confiscation, but are instead voluntary".... What do you mean by this in the way in which it was layed out by you ?

You have used the word confiscation in the same sentence with voluntary, as pertaining to what (I'm guessing), to be in regards to the collection of taxes or the paying of ones taxes in the nation, yet meaning what when you formed this sentence against another like you have now done ?

the connotations are that taxes are taken by force or against popular will. we live in a representative democracy. when congress raises taxes they do so in our name with the implicit support of the general populace

 

[Skull Pilot]

what a policy covers is not the issue. you are not different than the idiots who don't want to pay taxes for other reasons.

you truly are a misanthropic troglodyte - misfit

Of course it's an issue. Why the fuck should I be forced to pay for coverage I will never need?

It's bad enough the fucking government confiscates my money and wastes it on all kinds of shit but now the fucking government is telling me I have to waste my own money by paying for coverage I don't need.

yet another nut case who views taxes as confiscation

in a representative democracy taxes are not confiscation taxes are voluntary

Tell me that when you're in jail for tax evasion and all you property is stolen by the government

 

[Skull Pilot]

In a Republican form of government where we have representative democracy, the taxes are approved by our elected representatives.

civics 101

You said that "taxes are not confiscation, but are instead voluntary".... What do you mean by this in the way in which it was layed out by you ?

You have used the word confiscation in the same sentence with voluntary, as pertaining to what (I'm guessing), to be in regards to the collection of taxes or the paying of ones taxes in the nation, yet meaning what when you formed this sentence against another like you have now done ?

the connotations are that taxes are taken by force or against popular will. we live in a representative democracy. when congress raises taxes they do so in our name with the implicit support of the general populace

Taxes are theft.

 

[chikenwing]

Of course it's an issue. Why the fuck should I be forced to pay for coverage I will never need?

It's bad enough the fucking government confiscates my money and wastes it on all kinds of shit but now the fucking government is telling me I have to waste my own money by paying for coverage I don't need.

yet another nut case who views taxes as confiscation

in a representative democracy taxes are not confiscation taxes are voluntary

Tell me that when you're in jail for tax evasion and all you property is stolen by the government

If yu fail to pay your property taxes in our area,they tax your property sell it,and keep every penny,You could owe 5k on a 400k house,its sold for 125 at action,you get nothing,the county reaps a windfall. Take the 5k owed but not all,this happens all the time

Thats not a representative government.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Dante makes a good point. Why is health insurance offered almost exclusively through work, why isn't car insurance?

Do you lose you car insurance when you lose your job?

We need to reform the insurance industry so it is subject to the free market.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Dante makes a good point. Why is health insurance offered almost exclusively through work, why isn't car insurance?

Do you lose you car insurance when you lose your job?

We need to reform the insurance industry so it is subject to the free market.

Anyone can buy health insurance. Self employed people do it all the time and it's not only insurance that needs to be subjected to market forces but medical care itself also needs to be subject to free market forces.

As it stands now we have no idea what any medical service costs so we cannot choose to shop around.

Just call your local medical center and ask how much an office visit, a blood panel or MRI costs and see if you get an answer.

 

[dblack]

An interesting question was posed on the Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

"I don't understand why in America you would take away the health insurance when a person loses his job. Isn't that when she needs it?"



Read more: Advice For Consumers | Sick Around America | FRONTLINE | PBS

Because long ago the corporate backers of our government saw great advantage in creating dependency in their employees. Holding your very health, and the health of your family, over your head is a powerful tool for a boss to keep you in line and doing what you're told.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

An interesting question was posed on the Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

"I don't understand why in America you would take away the health insurance when a person loses his job. Isn't that when she needs it?"



Read more: Advice For Consumers | Sick Around America | FRONTLINE | PBS

It's all about personnel responsibility, when a business is poorly managed they save money and earn their bonus by fucking over personnel.

Excuse me, so what do you think, that an employer should continue providing health insurance to someone who no longer works for them? I mean, really, is that what you think?

Under COBRA, employees can continue their coverage after they lose their job, but they must now pay for it themselves, rather than the employer pay for part or all of it. And it's damn expensive. Unfortunately, in the case of some employees, losing their job is when they begin to appreciate what their employer was doing for them.

I sure appreciate the health insurance my company provides and pays most of the premium for. But it's the insurance companies that are the problem. They just raised our rates again, to the point that to keep the deductions from my paycheck for the insurance the same (about $150 every two weeks...my company pays several hundred more per month for my premium) I had to raise my deductible from the already high $1500 to $3000 per person. My company can't afford to offer a better plan, either. Just like many companies in this economy, we're struggling.

Then Blue Cross has the gall to send a bunch of posters for us to tack up with advise on how to take care of our health. With a $3000 deductible many people will tend to avoid medical care they should be seeking since even though they have health insurance, they can't afford it.

Cram it up your ass, Blue Cross.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

getting a license is the same as being force to buy an insurance policy?

Does the government tell you that you have to get a contractors' license if you're not going to be a contractor?

No.

But the government is forcing me to buy an insurance policy that will cover things I'll never need like drug counseling.

what a policy covers is not the issue. you are not different than the idiots who don't want to pay taxes for other reasons.

you truly are a misanthropic troglodyte - misfit

It is an issue for a lot of people what a policy covers. If someone is willing and able to pay for medical services and medication a la carte, what's the harm in them not opting to buy insurance coverage?

If your answer is that it's necessary to help other people who can't afford their own coverage, I'd say that's a wonderful, humanitarian outlook from which you're preaching, but the necessity for everyone to help each other is a function of your morality. When you decide to use the force of government to enforce your morality, you're no different from the evangelicals voting down gay marriage rights. No different from the Republicans who watched reefer madness and then decided it was their civic duty to make sure that nobody has -too- much fun.

If a person is "able" to pay for medical services and medication a la carte. Able. Not too many people are able to pay for catastrophic medical expenses. If they are, fine, they don't need to buy medical insurance. They're self-insured, essentially.

But the problem is people who aren't able to pay for those catastrophic, or even just hefty, medical expenses that may come along who don't want to pay for medical insurance. So if something happens, they're on the dole. That's the problem.

Responsible people have some kind of medical insurance.

 

[saveliberty]

Responsible people DO have medical insurance. Half the country doesn't pay federal income tax. A fair number collect unemplyment while working. Some call the ambulance and go to the emergency room for a cold. Responsibility is the problem here not medical care.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Some of you seem to think that employers offering health insurance to employees was put in place by the government. It wasn't.

Employers are not mandated to offer health insurance. Many offer it as a fringe benefit and in order to be competitive in finding top-notch employees.

But they don't have to and the government doesn't "make" them do it.

So, what are some of you saying, then...that employers should not be allowed to offer health insurance as a fringe benefit? If not, why not?

They could offer car insurance as a benefit, too, I suppose. But the fact that they don't has nothing at all to do with the government.

 

[saveliberty]

Some of you seem to think that employers offering health insurance to employees was put in place by the government. It wasn't.

Employers are not mandated to offer health insurance. Many offer it as a fringe benefit and in order to be competitive in finding top-notch employees.

But they don't have to and the government doesn't "make" them do it.

So, what are some of you saying, then...that employers should not be allowed to offer health insurance as a fringe benefit? If not, why not?

They could offer car insurance as a benefit, too, I suppose. But the fact that they don't has nothing at all to do with the government.

Small businesses are immune, but large ones HAVE TO OFFER health insurance coverage under Obamacare. Remember all the waivers?

 

[dblack]

Some of you seem to think that employers offering health insurance to employees was put in place by the government. It wasn't.

That's a good point to raise, though it was - and still is - subsidized by government in numerous ways, primarily via tax policy. But the incentive to build dependency on employment for health care lies most strongly with the large corporate interests who initiated the practice. It's not too far removed from the old 'company scrip/store' concept, with the goal of increasing employee dependency on the employer.

So, what are some of you saying, then...that employers should not be allowed to offer health insurance as a fringe benefit? If not, why not?

We're (or at least "I" am) saying it should not be 'incentivized' by making it tax exempt. And the very last thing we should do is mandate it.

They could offer car insurance as a benefit, too, I suppose. But the fact that they don't has nothing at all to do with the government.

If they could offer it as a tax exempt benefit, the way they can health insurance, many companies probably would. So it does, arguably, have something to do with government.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Some of you seem to think that employers offering health insurance to employees was put in place by the government. It wasn't.

Employers are not mandated to offer health insurance. Many offer it as a fringe benefit and in order to be competitive in finding top-notch employees.

But they don't have to and the government doesn't "make" them do it.

So, what are some of you saying, then...that employers should not be allowed to offer health insurance as a fringe benefit? If not, why not?

They could offer car insurance as a benefit, too, I suppose. But the fact that they don't has nothing at all to do with the government.

Small businesses are immune, but large ones HAVE TO OFFER health insurance coverage under Obamacare. Remember all the waivers?

Sorry, I was talking about how it is right now. But check out this article. Seems that even some small businesses don't mind this, they are providing medical insurance to their employees for the first time. Because the tax credits offered because of ObamaCare make it possible.

More Small Businesses Offering Health Care To Employees Thanks To Obamacare - Forbes

 

[saveliberty]

The article is from 2010. It claims this is all the result of a tax credit inforce less than one month. Doubtful at best.

 

[theHawk]

An interesting question was posed on the Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

"I don't understand why in America you would take away the health insurance when a person loses his job. Isn't that when she needs it?"



Read more: Advice For Consumers | Sick Around America | FRONTLINE | PBS

Because big government libs won't allow health insurance companies sell independantly from employers?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

for those of you who have never really faced a serious/catastrophic illness in the family..

An interesting question was posed on the Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

"I don't understand why in America you would take away the health insurance when a person loses his job. Isn't that when she needs it?"



Read more: Advice For Consumers | Sick Around America | FRONTLINE | PBS

...some things need repeating.

Health insurance policies in America are great, until you actually have to use them.