Why Democrats should not be allowed to work in the justice system

Don't care. There are guarantees that come with execution: the perp will never again be able to harm an innocent person, or get freed by a judge or a POTUS. We don't execute people to save money, we do it to remove the murderer from society.

No we don't. We do it for revenge. If we wanted to remove them from society then putting them in a hole and forgetting about them is faster, cheaper, and far more efficient while being even more effective.

Appeals for those serving life without parole are not automatic as death penalty cases are. That means nobody is going to file an appeal. What the death row inmate has is hope. Hope for a new trial on some technicality or some new evidence. Evidence that dozens of people are pouring over constantly. The person serving life without has no such hope. Any minor inconsistency in the trial can and often is grounds for a new trial. The death row inmate will often get two or sometimes even three new trials because of some minor technicality.

Life without parole is actually far more cruel if you are looking to make the baddie suffer. I mentioned hope above. A decade goes by and visitation from family dwindles because they know the baddie is never getting out. There is time and they can skip this week for a trip with friends. Life goes on in other words.

It is far more likely that the death penalty case will get that commutation to simple life which means they are eligible for parole. It happened in Indiana. A cop killer got out of prison despite being sentenced to death three times.

Gary officer's family outraged as his killer is released from prison

Those automatic appeals work. Not all the time, or even most of the time, but often enough to give the baddie hope.

So it is cheaper, more effective, and far easier to go with life without parole. It is also more cruel, and safer for the community.

That leaves the real reason we sentence people to death. Revenge. We want the satisfaction of watching the man die, hoping to see him cry out. Hoping to see the fear in his eye, or see him struggle and be forced onto the gurney. But that never happens. The condemned has time to accept his fate, and seek salvation through religion, through faith. Plus they give the condemned sedatives to calm them down just so they don't have a scene like the one above.

No one fights for the life without parole convict like they do for the death penalty sentence. They put them in a hole and forget about them.

I don't agree that we do it for revenge, but whatever, we don't do it to save money.

I've demonstrated that each argument in favor is at best wrong. It doesn't remove the criminal from society. Life without parole is very rarely commuted or overturned unless there is DNA evidence that proves the convicted didn't do the crime. While that happened far more frequently with death penalty cases.

So the only thing left is revenge. Unless you are less honest with yourself than you were here in this thread.

Look at the link I provided again. Three trials. Three guilty findings. Three times he was sentenced to death. Each time a small technical error in the trial was enough for a new trial to be granted. Finally the DA decided to go with the equivalent of a plea bargain. A year later the cop killer was released with time served.

Why would the DA do it? Well the conviction was based largely on witnesses. Those witnesses were getting older and more reluctant to testify again and again. The State was getting tired of paying for trials over and over again.

Eventually the witnesses would be unavailable. Either from moving or death in the natural cycle. Eventually the appeals court would rule that the State had flubbed it one too many times and overturn the conviction. So a cop killer goes free. All because someone wanted to make a statement about being tough on crime and showing that they supported the police.

How does that make the victims family feel better? I'm sure they were sick of the trials being done over and over again. The constant legal wrangling and nitpicking over the minutiae were certainly infuriating.

How much better off would they be if they heard life without parole? Knowing that the guilty would never be free again would put closure on the wound wouldn't it?

But instead they wanted to go for the big win and they lost it all. The cop killer is free. The cop is still dead. The family could never move on because of the trials and then more trials. Pain, frustration, anger, and no closure.

If you want to punish the guilty. Then life without parole is the answer.

Ohio executes Brett Hartmann in slaying of Highland Square woman

I knew one of the relatives in that case. I saw what it does to the family. The execution took fifteen years. A decade and a half of living nightmare. Always wondering if the guilty would go free. Always wondering if new trials would start it all over again.

He said he had no desire to spend the rest of his life in prison and was hoping to win a second trial and secure additional DNA testing. He said his family knows he is innocent, and he hopes the search for Snipes’ true killer continues.

“I think we’re lucky on death row because we have an out,” Hartmann said. “It’s a harsh structure in prison, but at least we’re not in for 50 to 60 years. Death row is its own little enigma. We are in our own little world.

“But being locked up and away from family, it’s tough. I’m tired of fighting and no one listening. I’m tired of begging for money [and tired] of prison. So, there’s some relief.”

He said to the Warden "I'm good, let's roll".

Fifteen years before closure could even begin.
Idiots like PredFan have no interest in looking at the results of thier policies They do not care about the feelings of the family who are imprisoned by fifteen years of court trials. They do not care about the cost of the trials being significantly more than housing them in prison. They do not care that housing them in prison gets them off the street just as well as killing them with less undesirable side effect to the family and society. They do not care about anything but thinking they are always right and blaming lefty for all of their problems. They talk about fiscal consevative policies but do not want to roll up thier sleeves and do the work to figure one out, they just blame it on the lefty. They say and do things they do not think about and when proven wrong they say they did not do them. They say things like "I never said it was not following the law" and then look back and "Now he has been caught and there is an idiot left wing, George Soros supported Attorney General for Orange County who refuses to seek the death penalty which is the law in Florida." They call themselves conservatives but have no respect for conservative values such as the truth, personal responsibilty, respect, and results. They are not conservatives they are kindergarten, namby pamby, crying, wineing, i am rubber you are glue, panty wastes who bring shame on all true conservatives. True conservativesthat exhibited true conservative values like Ronald Reagan, Theodore Rosevelt, and Dwight D. Eisenhour who actually got things done. They governed, they did not complain like these fake conservative tee baggers flooding the boards today. Tee partiers go crawl under the rock ich you came from!!!!!!!!!!!!

That straw man took a lot of work to build.
Results first, Ideology second. Thats how you get shit done, cry baby!!!!!!! You want to cry and accomplish nothing stay on the path you are on!!!!

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." Harry S. Truman
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." Geoge S. Patton

"It is only common sense to recognize that the great bulk of Americans, whether Republican or Democrat, face many common problems and agree on a number of basic objectives." Dwight D. Eisenhower
"The middle of the road is all of the usable surface. The extremes, right and left, are in the gutters." Dwight D. Eisenhower

Some words from people who actually did something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Last edited:
No we don't. We do it for revenge. If we wanted to remove them from society then putting them in a hole and forgetting about them is faster, cheaper, and far more efficient while being even more effective.

Appeals for those serving life without parole are not automatic as death penalty cases are. That means nobody is going to file an appeal. What the death row inmate has is hope. Hope for a new trial on some technicality or some new evidence. Evidence that dozens of people are pouring over constantly. The person serving life without has no such hope. Any minor inconsistency in the trial can and often is grounds for a new trial. The death row inmate will often get two or sometimes even three new trials because of some minor technicality.

Life without parole is actually far more cruel if you are looking to make the baddie suffer. I mentioned hope above. A decade goes by and visitation from family dwindles because they know the baddie is never getting out. There is time and they can skip this week for a trip with friends. Life goes on in other words.

It is far more likely that the death penalty case will get that commutation to simple life which means they are eligible for parole. It happened in Indiana. A cop killer got out of prison despite being sentenced to death three times.

Gary officer's family outraged as his killer is released from prison

Those automatic appeals work. Not all the time, or even most of the time, but often enough to give the baddie hope.

So it is cheaper, more effective, and far easier to go with life without parole. It is also more cruel, and safer for the community.

That leaves the real reason we sentence people to death. Revenge. We want the satisfaction of watching the man die, hoping to see him cry out. Hoping to see the fear in his eye, or see him struggle and be forced onto the gurney. But that never happens. The condemned has time to accept his fate, and seek salvation through religion, through faith. Plus they give the condemned sedatives to calm them down just so they don't have a scene like the one above.

No one fights for the life without parole convict like they do for the death penalty sentence. They put them in a hole and forget about them.

I don't agree that we do it for revenge, but whatever, we don't do it to save money.

I've demonstrated that each argument in favor is at best wrong. It doesn't remove the criminal from society. Life without parole is very rarely commuted or overturned unless there is DNA evidence that proves the convicted didn't do the crime. While that happened far more frequently with death penalty cases.

So the only thing left is revenge. Unless you are less honest with yourself than you were here in this thread.

Look at the link I provided again. Three trials. Three guilty findings. Three times he was sentenced to death. Each time a small technical error in the trial was enough for a new trial to be granted. Finally the DA decided to go with the equivalent of a plea bargain. A year later the cop killer was released with time served.

Why would the DA do it? Well the conviction was based largely on witnesses. Those witnesses were getting older and more reluctant to testify again and again. The State was getting tired of paying for trials over and over again.

Eventually the witnesses would be unavailable. Either from moving or death in the natural cycle. Eventually the appeals court would rule that the State had flubbed it one too many times and overturn the conviction. So a cop killer goes free. All because someone wanted to make a statement about being tough on crime and showing that they supported the police.

How does that make the victims family feel better? I'm sure they were sick of the trials being done over and over again. The constant legal wrangling and nitpicking over the minutiae were certainly infuriating.

How much better off would they be if they heard life without parole? Knowing that the guilty would never be free again would put closure on the wound wouldn't it?

But instead they wanted to go for the big win and they lost it all. The cop killer is free. The cop is still dead. The family could never move on because of the trials and then more trials. Pain, frustration, anger, and no closure.

If you want to punish the guilty. Then life without parole is the answer.

Ohio executes Brett Hartmann in slaying of Highland Square woman

I knew one of the relatives in that case. I saw what it does to the family. The execution took fifteen years. A decade and a half of living nightmare. Always wondering if the guilty would go free. Always wondering if new trials would start it all over again.

He said he had no desire to spend the rest of his life in prison and was hoping to win a second trial and secure additional DNA testing. He said his family knows he is innocent, and he hopes the search for Snipes’ true killer continues.

“I think we’re lucky on death row because we have an out,” Hartmann said. “It’s a harsh structure in prison, but at least we’re not in for 50 to 60 years. Death row is its own little enigma. We are in our own little world.

“But being locked up and away from family, it’s tough. I’m tired of fighting and no one listening. I’m tired of begging for money [and tired] of prison. So, there’s some relief.”

He said to the Warden "I'm good, let's roll".

Fifteen years before closure could even begin.
Idiots like PredFan have no interest in looking at the results of thier policies They do not care about the feelings of the family who are imprisoned by fifteen years of court trials. They do not care about the cost of the trials being significantly more than housing them in prison. They do not care that housing them in prison gets them off the street just as well as killing them with less undesirable side effect to the family and society. They do not care about anything but thinking they are always right and blaming lefty for all of their problems. They talk about fiscal consevative policies but do not want to roll up thier sleeves and do the work to figure one out, they just blame it on the lefty. They say and do things they do not think about and when proven wrong they say they did not do them. They say things like "I never said it was not following the law" and then look back and "Now he has been caught and there is an idiot left wing, George Soros supported Attorney General for Orange County who refuses to seek the death penalty which is the law in Florida." They call themselves conservatives but have no respect for conservative values such as the truth, personal responsibilty, respect, and results. They are not conservatives they are kindergarten, namby pamby, crying, wineing, i am rubber you are glue, panty wastes who bring shame on all true conservatives. True conservativesthat exhibited true conservative values like Ronald Reagan, Theodore Rosevelt, and Dwight D. Eisenhour who actually got things done. They governed, they did not complain like these fake conservative tee baggers flooding the boards today. Tee partiers go crawl under the rock ich you came from!!!!!!!!!!!!

That straw man took a lot of work to build.
Results first, Ideology second. Thats how you get shit done, cry baby!!!!!!! You want to cry and accomplish nothing stay on the path you are on!!!!

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." Harry S. Truman
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." Geoge S. Patton

"It is only common sense to recognize that the great bulk of Americans, whether Republican or Democrat, face many common problems and agree on a number of basic objectives." Dwight D. Eisenhower
"The middle of the road is all of the usable surface. The extremes, right and left, are in the gutters." Dwight D. Eisenhower

Some words from people who actually did something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess PredFan does not want to play with me any more. Did you take your ball and go home? Cry baby!!!!!!!!!
 
No we don't. We do it for revenge. If we wanted to remove them from society then putting them in a hole and forgetting about them is faster, cheaper, and far more efficient while being even more effective.

Appeals for those serving life without parole are not automatic as death penalty cases are. That means nobody is going to file an appeal. What the death row inmate has is hope. Hope for a new trial on some technicality or some new evidence. Evidence that dozens of people are pouring over constantly. The person serving life without has no such hope. Any minor inconsistency in the trial can and often is grounds for a new trial. The death row inmate will often get two or sometimes even three new trials because of some minor technicality.

Life without parole is actually far more cruel if you are looking to make the baddie suffer. I mentioned hope above. A decade goes by and visitation from family dwindles because they know the baddie is never getting out. There is time and they can skip this week for a trip with friends. Life goes on in other words.

It is far more likely that the death penalty case will get that commutation to simple life which means they are eligible for parole. It happened in Indiana. A cop killer got out of prison despite being sentenced to death three times.

Gary officer's family outraged as his killer is released from prison

Those automatic appeals work. Not all the time, or even most of the time, but often enough to give the baddie hope.

So it is cheaper, more effective, and far easier to go with life without parole. It is also more cruel, and safer for the community.

That leaves the real reason we sentence people to death. Revenge. We want the satisfaction of watching the man die, hoping to see him cry out. Hoping to see the fear in his eye, or see him struggle and be forced onto the gurney. But that never happens. The condemned has time to accept his fate, and seek salvation through religion, through faith. Plus they give the condemned sedatives to calm them down just so they don't have a scene like the one above.

No one fights for the life without parole convict like they do for the death penalty sentence. They put them in a hole and forget about them.

I don't agree that we do it for revenge, but whatever, we don't do it to save money.

I've demonstrated that each argument in favor is at best wrong. It doesn't remove the criminal from society. Life without parole is very rarely commuted or overturned unless there is DNA evidence that proves the convicted didn't do the crime. While that happened far more frequently with death penalty cases.

So the only thing left is revenge. Unless you are less honest with yourself than you were here in this thread.

Look at the link I provided again. Three trials. Three guilty findings. Three times he was sentenced to death. Each time a small technical error in the trial was enough for a new trial to be granted. Finally the DA decided to go with the equivalent of a plea bargain. A year later the cop killer was released with time served.

Why would the DA do it? Well the conviction was based largely on witnesses. Those witnesses were getting older and more reluctant to testify again and again. The State was getting tired of paying for trials over and over again.

Eventually the witnesses would be unavailable. Either from moving or death in the natural cycle. Eventually the appeals court would rule that the State had flubbed it one too many times and overturn the conviction. So a cop killer goes free. All because someone wanted to make a statement about being tough on crime and showing that they supported the police.

How does that make the victims family feel better? I'm sure they were sick of the trials being done over and over again. The constant legal wrangling and nitpicking over the minutiae were certainly infuriating.

How much better off would they be if they heard life without parole? Knowing that the guilty would never be free again would put closure on the wound wouldn't it?

But instead they wanted to go for the big win and they lost it all. The cop killer is free. The cop is still dead. The family could never move on because of the trials and then more trials. Pain, frustration, anger, and no closure.

If you want to punish the guilty. Then life without parole is the answer.

Ohio executes Brett Hartmann in slaying of Highland Square woman

I knew one of the relatives in that case. I saw what it does to the family. The execution took fifteen years. A decade and a half of living nightmare. Always wondering if the guilty would go free. Always wondering if new trials would start it all over again.

He said he had no desire to spend the rest of his life in prison and was hoping to win a second trial and secure additional DNA testing. He said his family knows he is innocent, and he hopes the search for Snipes’ true killer continues.

“I think we’re lucky on death row because we have an out,” Hartmann said. “It’s a harsh structure in prison, but at least we’re not in for 50 to 60 years. Death row is its own little enigma. We are in our own little world.

“But being locked up and away from family, it’s tough. I’m tired of fighting and no one listening. I’m tired of begging for money [and tired] of prison. So, there’s some relief.”

He said to the Warden "I'm good, let's roll".

Fifteen years before closure could even begin.
Idiots like PredFan have no interest in looking at the results of thier policies They do not care about the feelings of the family who are imprisoned by fifteen years of court trials. They do not care about the cost of the trials being significantly more than housing them in prison. They do not care that housing them in prison gets them off the street just as well as killing them with less undesirable side effect to the family and society. They do not care about anything but thinking they are always right and blaming lefty for all of their problems. They talk about fiscal consevative policies but do not want to roll up thier sleeves and do the work to figure one out, they just blame it on the lefty. They say and do things they do not think about and when proven wrong they say they did not do them. They say things like "I never said it was not following the law" and then look back and "Now he has been caught and there is an idiot left wing, George Soros supported Attorney General for Orange County who refuses to seek the death penalty which is the law in Florida." They call themselves conservatives but have no respect for conservative values such as the truth, personal responsibilty, respect, and results. They are not conservatives they are kindergarten, namby pamby, crying, wineing, i am rubber you are glue, panty wastes who bring shame on all true conservatives. True conservativesthat exhibited true conservative values like Ronald Reagan, Theodore Rosevelt, and Dwight D. Eisenhour who actually got things done. They governed, they did not complain like these fake conservative tee baggers flooding the boards today. Tee partiers go crawl under the rock ich you came from!!!!!!!!!!!!

That straw man took a lot of work to build.
Results first, Ideology second. Thats how you get shit done, cry baby!!!!!!! You want to cry and accomplish nothing stay on the path you are on!!!!

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." Harry S. Truman
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." Geoge S. Patton

"It is only common sense to recognize that the great bulk of Americans, whether Republican or Democrat, face many common problems and agree on a number of basic objectives." Dwight D. Eisenhower
"The middle of the road is all of the usable surface. The extremes, right and left, are in the gutters." Dwight D. Eisenhower

Some words from people who actually did something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again with the straw man, no ones crying but you.
 
I don't agree that we do it for revenge, but whatever, we don't do it to save money.

I've demonstrated that each argument in favor is at best wrong. It doesn't remove the criminal from society. Life without parole is very rarely commuted or overturned unless there is DNA evidence that proves the convicted didn't do the crime. While that happened far more frequently with death penalty cases.

So the only thing left is revenge. Unless you are less honest with yourself than you were here in this thread.

Look at the link I provided again. Three trials. Three guilty findings. Three times he was sentenced to death. Each time a small technical error in the trial was enough for a new trial to be granted. Finally the DA decided to go with the equivalent of a plea bargain. A year later the cop killer was released with time served.

Why would the DA do it? Well the conviction was based largely on witnesses. Those witnesses were getting older and more reluctant to testify again and again. The State was getting tired of paying for trials over and over again.

Eventually the witnesses would be unavailable. Either from moving or death in the natural cycle. Eventually the appeals court would rule that the State had flubbed it one too many times and overturn the conviction. So a cop killer goes free. All because someone wanted to make a statement about being tough on crime and showing that they supported the police.

How does that make the victims family feel better? I'm sure they were sick of the trials being done over and over again. The constant legal wrangling and nitpicking over the minutiae were certainly infuriating.

How much better off would they be if they heard life without parole? Knowing that the guilty would never be free again would put closure on the wound wouldn't it?

But instead they wanted to go for the big win and they lost it all. The cop killer is free. The cop is still dead. The family could never move on because of the trials and then more trials. Pain, frustration, anger, and no closure.

If you want to punish the guilty. Then life without parole is the answer.

Ohio executes Brett Hartmann in slaying of Highland Square woman

I knew one of the relatives in that case. I saw what it does to the family. The execution took fifteen years. A decade and a half of living nightmare. Always wondering if the guilty would go free. Always wondering if new trials would start it all over again.

He said he had no desire to spend the rest of his life in prison and was hoping to win a second trial and secure additional DNA testing. He said his family knows he is innocent, and he hopes the search for Snipes’ true killer continues.

“I think we’re lucky on death row because we have an out,” Hartmann said. “It’s a harsh structure in prison, but at least we’re not in for 50 to 60 years. Death row is its own little enigma. We are in our own little world.

“But being locked up and away from family, it’s tough. I’m tired of fighting and no one listening. I’m tired of begging for money [and tired] of prison. So, there’s some relief.”

He said to the Warden "I'm good, let's roll".

Fifteen years before closure could even begin.
Idiots like PredFan have no interest in looking at the results of thier policies They do not care about the feelings of the family who are imprisoned by fifteen years of court trials. They do not care about the cost of the trials being significantly more than housing them in prison. They do not care that housing them in prison gets them off the street just as well as killing them with less undesirable side effect to the family and society. They do not care about anything but thinking they are always right and blaming lefty for all of their problems. They talk about fiscal consevative policies but do not want to roll up thier sleeves and do the work to figure one out, they just blame it on the lefty. They say and do things they do not think about and when proven wrong they say they did not do them. They say things like "I never said it was not following the law" and then look back and "Now he has been caught and there is an idiot left wing, George Soros supported Attorney General for Orange County who refuses to seek the death penalty which is the law in Florida." They call themselves conservatives but have no respect for conservative values such as the truth, personal responsibilty, respect, and results. They are not conservatives they are kindergarten, namby pamby, crying, wineing, i am rubber you are glue, panty wastes who bring shame on all true conservatives. True conservativesthat exhibited true conservative values like Ronald Reagan, Theodore Rosevelt, and Dwight D. Eisenhour who actually got things done. They governed, they did not complain like these fake conservative tee baggers flooding the boards today. Tee partiers go crawl under the rock ich you came from!!!!!!!!!!!!

That straw man took a lot of work to build.
Results first, Ideology second. Thats how you get shit done, cry baby!!!!!!! You want to cry and accomplish nothing stay on the path you are on!!!!

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." Harry S. Truman
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." Geoge S. Patton

"It is only common sense to recognize that the great bulk of Americans, whether Republican or Democrat, face many common problems and agree on a number of basic objectives." Dwight D. Eisenhower
"The middle of the road is all of the usable surface. The extremes, right and left, are in the gutters." Dwight D. Eisenhower

Some words from people who actually did something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess PredFan does not want to play with me any more. Did you take your ball and go home? Cry baby!!!!!!!!!

What are you talking about moron? I replied.
 
I don't agree that we do it for revenge, but whatever, we don't do it to save money.

I've demonstrated that each argument in favor is at best wrong. It doesn't remove the criminal from society. Life without parole is very rarely commuted or overturned unless there is DNA evidence that proves the convicted didn't do the crime. While that happened far more frequently with death penalty cases.

So the only thing left is revenge. Unless you are less honest with yourself than you were here in this thread.

Look at the link I provided again. Three trials. Three guilty findings. Three times he was sentenced to death. Each time a small technical error in the trial was enough for a new trial to be granted. Finally the DA decided to go with the equivalent of a plea bargain. A year later the cop killer was released with time served.

Why would the DA do it? Well the conviction was based largely on witnesses. Those witnesses were getting older and more reluctant to testify again and again. The State was getting tired of paying for trials over and over again.

Eventually the witnesses would be unavailable. Either from moving or death in the natural cycle. Eventually the appeals court would rule that the State had flubbed it one too many times and overturn the conviction. So a cop killer goes free. All because someone wanted to make a statement about being tough on crime and showing that they supported the police.

How does that make the victims family feel better? I'm sure they were sick of the trials being done over and over again. The constant legal wrangling and nitpicking over the minutiae were certainly infuriating.

How much better off would they be if they heard life without parole? Knowing that the guilty would never be free again would put closure on the wound wouldn't it?

But instead they wanted to go for the big win and they lost it all. The cop killer is free. The cop is still dead. The family could never move on because of the trials and then more trials. Pain, frustration, anger, and no closure.

If you want to punish the guilty. Then life without parole is the answer.

Ohio executes Brett Hartmann in slaying of Highland Square woman

I knew one of the relatives in that case. I saw what it does to the family. The execution took fifteen years. A decade and a half of living nightmare. Always wondering if the guilty would go free. Always wondering if new trials would start it all over again.

He said he had no desire to spend the rest of his life in prison and was hoping to win a second trial and secure additional DNA testing. He said his family knows he is innocent, and he hopes the search for Snipes’ true killer continues.

“I think we’re lucky on death row because we have an out,” Hartmann said. “It’s a harsh structure in prison, but at least we’re not in for 50 to 60 years. Death row is its own little enigma. We are in our own little world.

“But being locked up and away from family, it’s tough. I’m tired of fighting and no one listening. I’m tired of begging for money [and tired] of prison. So, there’s some relief.”

He said to the Warden "I'm good, let's roll".

Fifteen years before closure could even begin.
Idiots like PredFan have no interest in looking at the results of thier policies They do not care about the feelings of the family who are imprisoned by fifteen years of court trials. They do not care about the cost of the trials being significantly more than housing them in prison. They do not care that housing them in prison gets them off the street just as well as killing them with less undesirable side effect to the family and society. They do not care about anything but thinking they are always right and blaming lefty for all of their problems. They talk about fiscal consevative policies but do not want to roll up thier sleeves and do the work to figure one out, they just blame it on the lefty. They say and do things they do not think about and when proven wrong they say they did not do them. They say things like "I never said it was not following the law" and then look back and "Now he has been caught and there is an idiot left wing, George Soros supported Attorney General for Orange County who refuses to seek the death penalty which is the law in Florida." They call themselves conservatives but have no respect for conservative values such as the truth, personal responsibilty, respect, and results. They are not conservatives they are kindergarten, namby pamby, crying, wineing, i am rubber you are glue, panty wastes who bring shame on all true conservatives. True conservativesthat exhibited true conservative values like Ronald Reagan, Theodore Rosevelt, and Dwight D. Eisenhour who actually got things done. They governed, they did not complain like these fake conservative tee baggers flooding the boards today. Tee partiers go crawl under the rock ich you came from!!!!!!!!!!!!

That straw man took a lot of work to build.
Results first, Ideology second. Thats how you get shit done, cry baby!!!!!!! You want to cry and accomplish nothing stay on the path you are on!!!!

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." Harry S. Truman
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." Geoge S. Patton

"It is only common sense to recognize that the great bulk of Americans, whether Republican or Democrat, face many common problems and agree on a number of basic objectives." Dwight D. Eisenhower
"The middle of the road is all of the usable surface. The extremes, right and left, are in the gutters." Dwight D. Eisenhower

Some words from people who actually did something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again with the straw man, no ones crying but you.
Great come back nimrod!!!!!! But what do you expect from some one that can only cry and is afraid of real work or thought!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I've demonstrated that each argument in favor is at best wrong. It doesn't remove the criminal from society. Life without parole is very rarely commuted or overturned unless there is DNA evidence that proves the convicted didn't do the crime. While that happened far more frequently with death penalty cases.

So the only thing left is revenge. Unless you are less honest with yourself than you were here in this thread.

Look at the link I provided again. Three trials. Three guilty findings. Three times he was sentenced to death. Each time a small technical error in the trial was enough for a new trial to be granted. Finally the DA decided to go with the equivalent of a plea bargain. A year later the cop killer was released with time served.

Why would the DA do it? Well the conviction was based largely on witnesses. Those witnesses were getting older and more reluctant to testify again and again. The State was getting tired of paying for trials over and over again.

Eventually the witnesses would be unavailable. Either from moving or death in the natural cycle. Eventually the appeals court would rule that the State had flubbed it one too many times and overturn the conviction. So a cop killer goes free. All because someone wanted to make a statement about being tough on crime and showing that they supported the police.

How does that make the victims family feel better? I'm sure they were sick of the trials being done over and over again. The constant legal wrangling and nitpicking over the minutiae were certainly infuriating.

How much better off would they be if they heard life without parole? Knowing that the guilty would never be free again would put closure on the wound wouldn't it?

But instead they wanted to go for the big win and they lost it all. The cop killer is free. The cop is still dead. The family could never move on because of the trials and then more trials. Pain, frustration, anger, and no closure.

If you want to punish the guilty. Then life without parole is the answer.

Ohio executes Brett Hartmann in slaying of Highland Square woman

I knew one of the relatives in that case. I saw what it does to the family. The execution took fifteen years. A decade and a half of living nightmare. Always wondering if the guilty would go free. Always wondering if new trials would start it all over again.

He said to the Warden "I'm good, let's roll".

Fifteen years before closure could even begin.
Idiots like PredFan have no interest in looking at the results of thier policies They do not care about the feelings of the family who are imprisoned by fifteen years of court trials. They do not care about the cost of the trials being significantly more than housing them in prison. They do not care that housing them in prison gets them off the street just as well as killing them with less undesirable side effect to the family and society. They do not care about anything but thinking they are always right and blaming lefty for all of their problems. They talk about fiscal consevative policies but do not want to roll up thier sleeves and do the work to figure one out, they just blame it on the lefty. They say and do things they do not think about and when proven wrong they say they did not do them. They say things like "I never said it was not following the law" and then look back and "Now he has been caught and there is an idiot left wing, George Soros supported Attorney General for Orange County who refuses to seek the death penalty which is the law in Florida." They call themselves conservatives but have no respect for conservative values such as the truth, personal responsibilty, respect, and results. They are not conservatives they are kindergarten, namby pamby, crying, wineing, i am rubber you are glue, panty wastes who bring shame on all true conservatives. True conservativesthat exhibited true conservative values like Ronald Reagan, Theodore Rosevelt, and Dwight D. Eisenhour who actually got things done. They governed, they did not complain like these fake conservative tee baggers flooding the boards today. Tee partiers go crawl under the rock ich you came from!!!!!!!!!!!!

That straw man took a lot of work to build.
Results first, Ideology second. Thats how you get shit done, cry baby!!!!!!! You want to cry and accomplish nothing stay on the path you are on!!!!

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." Harry S. Truman
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." Geoge S. Patton

"It is only common sense to recognize that the great bulk of Americans, whether Republican or Democrat, face many common problems and agree on a number of basic objectives." Dwight D. Eisenhower
"The middle of the road is all of the usable surface. The extremes, right and left, are in the gutters." Dwight D. Eisenhower

Some words from people who actually did something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again with the straw man, no ones crying but you.
Great come back nimrod!!!!!! But what do you expect from some one that can only cry and is afraid of real work or thought!!!!!!!!!!!

You're too stupid to talk to, dismissed.
 
Idiots like PredFan have no interest in looking at the results of thier policies They do not care about the feelings of the family who are imprisoned by fifteen years of court trials. They do not care about the cost of the trials being significantly more than housing them in prison. They do not care that housing them in prison gets them off the street just as well as killing them with less undesirable side effect to the family and society. They do not care about anything but thinking they are always right and blaming lefty for all of their problems. They talk about fiscal consevative policies but do not want to roll up thier sleeves and do the work to figure one out, they just blame it on the lefty. They say and do things they do not think about and when proven wrong they say they did not do them. They say things like "I never said it was not following the law" and then look back and "Now he has been caught and there is an idiot left wing, George Soros supported Attorney General for Orange County who refuses to seek the death penalty which is the law in Florida." They call themselves conservatives but have no respect for conservative values such as the truth, personal responsibilty, respect, and results. They are not conservatives they are kindergarten, namby pamby, crying, wineing, i am rubber you are glue, panty wastes who bring shame on all true conservatives. True conservativesthat exhibited true conservative values like Ronald Reagan, Theodore Rosevelt, and Dwight D. Eisenhour who actually got things done. They governed, they did not complain like these fake conservative tee baggers flooding the boards today. Tee partiers go crawl under the rock ich you came from!!!!!!!!!!!!

That straw man took a lot of work to build.
Results first, Ideology second. Thats how you get shit done, cry baby!!!!!!! You want to cry and accomplish nothing stay on the path you are on!!!!

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." Harry S. Truman
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." Geoge S. Patton

"It is only common sense to recognize that the great bulk of Americans, whether Republican or Democrat, face many common problems and agree on a number of basic objectives." Dwight D. Eisenhower
"The middle of the road is all of the usable surface. The extremes, right and left, are in the gutters." Dwight D. Eisenhower

Some words from people who actually did something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again with the straw man, no ones crying but you.
Great come back nimrod!!!!!! But what do you expect from some one that can only cry and is afraid of real work or thought!!!!!!!!!!!

You're too stupid to talk to, dismissed.
I am obviously more intelligent than you are. You must feel like your in hell being so stupid!!! Does it hurt to be so stupid as to think "dismissed" is an intelligible argument?

"I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell." Harry S. Truman
 
Then if the law does not demand that the Death Penalty perhaps you can answer another question. Oh BTW I am impressed that you told the truth.

How much money does it cost to carry out the death penalty versus holding the convince in prison for life without parole?

The difference is a lot more than you think. It costs at least a $1,000,000 more to execute someone. Seriously. The 1976 Supreme Court decision included the standard that a meaningful appeals process must be used during a death penalty case. That means the taxpayers foot the bill for lawyers on both sides. So a sentence of Death takes an average of 17 years to carry out and lawyers are paid the entire time for both the convicted and the prosecution.

Additionally it is estimated that it cost an additional $90,000 a year to hold someone on "death row" versus life in general population.

So the question. What is gained by a process that cost $90,000 a year to hold the prisoner for the average of 17 years and cost an another million dollars minimum for appeals versus life without parole?

Don't care. There are guarantees that come with execution: the perp will never again be able to harm an innocent person, or get freed by a judge or a POTUS. We don't execute people to save money, we do it to remove the murderer from society.

No we don't. We do it for revenge. If we wanted to remove them from society then putting them in a hole and forgetting about them is faster, cheaper, and far more efficient while being even more effective.

Appeals for those serving life without parole are not automatic as death penalty cases are. That means nobody is going to file an appeal. What the death row inmate has is hope. Hope for a new trial on some technicality or some new evidence. Evidence that dozens of people are pouring over constantly. The person serving life without has no such hope. Any minor inconsistency in the trial can and often is grounds for a new trial. The death row inmate will often get two or sometimes even three new trials because of some minor technicality.

Life without parole is actually far more cruel if you are looking to make the baddie suffer. I mentioned hope above. A decade goes by and visitation from family dwindles because they know the baddie is never getting out. There is time and they can skip this week for a trip with friends. Life goes on in other words.

It is far more likely that the death penalty case will get that commutation to simple life which means they are eligible for parole. It happened in Indiana. A cop killer got out of prison despite being sentenced to death three times.

Gary officer's family outraged as his killer is released from prison

Those automatic appeals work. Not all the time, or even most of the time, but often enough to give the baddie hope.

So it is cheaper, more effective, and far easier to go with life without parole. It is also more cruel, and safer for the community.

That leaves the real reason we sentence people to death. Revenge. We want the satisfaction of watching the man die, hoping to see him cry out. Hoping to see the fear in his eye, or see him struggle and be forced onto the gurney. But that never happens. The condemned has time to accept his fate, and seek salvation through religion, through faith. Plus they give the condemned sedatives to calm them down just so they don't have a scene like the one above.

No one fights for the life without parole convict like they do for the death penalty sentence. They put them in a hole and forget about them.

I don't agree that we do it for revenge, but whatever, we don't do it to save money.

I've demonstrated that each argument in favor is at best wrong. It doesn't remove the criminal from society. Life without parole is very rarely commuted or overturned unless there is DNA evidence that proves the convicted didn't do the crime. While that happened far more frequently with death penalty cases.

So the only thing left is revenge. Unless you are less honest with yourself than you were here in this thread.

Look at the link I provided again. Three trials. Three guilty findings. Three times he was sentenced to death. Each time a small technical error in the trial was enough for a new trial to be granted. Finally the DA decided to go with the equivalent of a plea bargain. A year later the cop killer was released with time served.

Why would the DA do it? Well the conviction was based largely on witnesses. Those witnesses were getting older and more reluctant to testify again and again. The State was getting tired of paying for trials over and over again.

Eventually the witnesses would be unavailable. Either from moving or death in the natural cycle. Eventually the appeals court would rule that the State had flubbed it one too many times and overturn the conviction. So a cop killer goes free. All because someone wanted to make a statement about being tough on crime and showing that they supported the police.

How does that make the victims family feel better? I'm sure they were sick of the trials being done over and over again. The constant legal wrangling and nitpicking over the minutiae were certainly infuriating.

How much better off would they be if they heard life without parole? Knowing that the guilty would never be free again would put closure on the wound wouldn't it?

But instead they wanted to go for the big win and they lost it all. The cop killer is free. The cop is still dead. The family could never move on because of the trials and then more trials. Pain, frustration, anger, and no closure.

If you want to punish the guilty. Then life without parole is the answer.

Ohio executes Brett Hartmann in slaying of Highland Square woman

I knew one of the relatives in that case. I saw what it does to the family. The execution took fifteen years. A decade and a half of living nightmare. Always wondering if the guilty would go free. Always wondering if new trials would start it all over again.

He said he had no desire to spend the rest of his life in prison and was hoping to win a second trial and secure additional DNA testing. He said his family knows he is innocent, and he hopes the search for Snipes’ true killer continues.

“I think we’re lucky on death row because we have an out,” Hartmann said. “It’s a harsh structure in prison, but at least we’re not in for 50 to 60 years. Death row is its own little enigma. We are in our own little world.

“But being locked up and away from family, it’s tough. I’m tired of fighting and no one listening. I’m tired of begging for money [and tired] of prison. So, there’s some relief.”

He said to the Warden "I'm good, let's roll".

Fifteen years before closure could even begin.
Idiots like PredFan have no interest in looking at the results of thier policies They do not care about the feelings of the family who are imprisoned by fifteen years of court trials. They do not care about the cost of the trials being significantly more than housing them in prison. They do not care that housing them in prison gets them off the street just as well as killing them with less undesirable side effect to the family and society. They do not care about anything but thinking they are always right and blaming lefty for all of their problems. They talk about fiscal consevative policies but do not want to roll up thier sleeves and do the work to figure one out, they just blame it on the lefty. They say and do things they do not think about and when proven wrong they say they did not do them. They say things like "I never said it was not following the law" and then look back and "Now he has been caught and there is an idiot left wing, George Soros supported Attorney General for Orange County who refuses to seek the death penalty which is the law in Florida." They call themselves conservatives but have no respect for conservative values such as the truth, personal responsibilty, respect, and results. They are not conservatives they are kindergarten, namby pamby, crying, wineing, i am rubber you are glue, panty wastes who bring shame on all true conservatives. True conservativesthat exhibited true conservative values like Ronald Reagan, Theodore Rosevelt, and Dwight D. Eisenhour who actually got things done. They governed, they did not complain like these fake conservative tee baggers flooding the boards today. Tee partiers go crawl under the rock ich you came from!!!!!!!!!!!!

Part of our problem, collectively, is we are defining ourselves by who we aren't, instead of what we believe in. Democrats aren't sure what they are for, they are just against Republicans. Republicans are in a similar boat. They are against whatever the Democrats are for. Conservatives are against anyone who appears soft on crime etc. Liberals are opposed to anyone who screams police are always right.

We can't explain why we believe it, so the only answer left is we believe it because they don't. When faced with evidence that an ideal is wrong, most reasonable people will start to consider the information, or go looking for more information to shore up their belief.

But no philosophy is always all right, or all wrong. The Conservatives have some good points, and I think they are right on some issues. Just as I believe the Liberals, Libertarians, and strict constitutionalism types are right some of the time.
 
Don't care. There are guarantees that come with execution: the perp will never again be able to harm an innocent person, or get freed by a judge or a POTUS. We don't execute people to save money, we do it to remove the murderer from society.

No we don't. We do it for revenge. If we wanted to remove them from society then putting them in a hole and forgetting about them is faster, cheaper, and far more efficient while being even more effective.

Appeals for those serving life without parole are not automatic as death penalty cases are. That means nobody is going to file an appeal. What the death row inmate has is hope. Hope for a new trial on some technicality or some new evidence. Evidence that dozens of people are pouring over constantly. The person serving life without has no such hope. Any minor inconsistency in the trial can and often is grounds for a new trial. The death row inmate will often get two or sometimes even three new trials because of some minor technicality.

Life without parole is actually far more cruel if you are looking to make the baddie suffer. I mentioned hope above. A decade goes by and visitation from family dwindles because they know the baddie is never getting out. There is time and they can skip this week for a trip with friends. Life goes on in other words.

It is far more likely that the death penalty case will get that commutation to simple life which means they are eligible for parole. It happened in Indiana. A cop killer got out of prison despite being sentenced to death three times.

Gary officer's family outraged as his killer is released from prison

Those automatic appeals work. Not all the time, or even most of the time, but often enough to give the baddie hope.

So it is cheaper, more effective, and far easier to go with life without parole. It is also more cruel, and safer for the community.

That leaves the real reason we sentence people to death. Revenge. We want the satisfaction of watching the man die, hoping to see him cry out. Hoping to see the fear in his eye, or see him struggle and be forced onto the gurney. But that never happens. The condemned has time to accept his fate, and seek salvation through religion, through faith. Plus they give the condemned sedatives to calm them down just so they don't have a scene like the one above.

No one fights for the life without parole convict like they do for the death penalty sentence. They put them in a hole and forget about them.

I don't agree that we do it for revenge, but whatever, we don't do it to save money.

I've demonstrated that each argument in favor is at best wrong. It doesn't remove the criminal from society. Life without parole is very rarely commuted or overturned unless there is DNA evidence that proves the convicted didn't do the crime. While that happened far more frequently with death penalty cases.

So the only thing left is revenge. Unless you are less honest with yourself than you were here in this thread.

Look at the link I provided again. Three trials. Three guilty findings. Three times he was sentenced to death. Each time a small technical error in the trial was enough for a new trial to be granted. Finally the DA decided to go with the equivalent of a plea bargain. A year later the cop killer was released with time served.

Why would the DA do it? Well the conviction was based largely on witnesses. Those witnesses were getting older and more reluctant to testify again and again. The State was getting tired of paying for trials over and over again.

Eventually the witnesses would be unavailable. Either from moving or death in the natural cycle. Eventually the appeals court would rule that the State had flubbed it one too many times and overturn the conviction. So a cop killer goes free. All because someone wanted to make a statement about being tough on crime and showing that they supported the police.

How does that make the victims family feel better? I'm sure they were sick of the trials being done over and over again. The constant legal wrangling and nitpicking over the minutiae were certainly infuriating.

How much better off would they be if they heard life without parole? Knowing that the guilty would never be free again would put closure on the wound wouldn't it?

But instead they wanted to go for the big win and they lost it all. The cop killer is free. The cop is still dead. The family could never move on because of the trials and then more trials. Pain, frustration, anger, and no closure.

If you want to punish the guilty. Then life without parole is the answer.

Ohio executes Brett Hartmann in slaying of Highland Square woman

I knew one of the relatives in that case. I saw what it does to the family. The execution took fifteen years. A decade and a half of living nightmare. Always wondering if the guilty would go free. Always wondering if new trials would start it all over again.

He said he had no desire to spend the rest of his life in prison and was hoping to win a second trial and secure additional DNA testing. He said his family knows he is innocent, and he hopes the search for Snipes’ true killer continues.

“I think we’re lucky on death row because we have an out,” Hartmann said. “It’s a harsh structure in prison, but at least we’re not in for 50 to 60 years. Death row is its own little enigma. We are in our own little world.

“But being locked up and away from family, it’s tough. I’m tired of fighting and no one listening. I’m tired of begging for money [and tired] of prison. So, there’s some relief.”

He said to the Warden "I'm good, let's roll".

Fifteen years before closure could even begin.
Idiots like PredFan have no interest in looking at the results of thier policies They do not care about the feelings of the family who are imprisoned by fifteen years of court trials. They do not care about the cost of the trials being significantly more than housing them in prison. They do not care that housing them in prison gets them off the street just as well as killing them with less undesirable side effect to the family and society. They do not care about anything but thinking they are always right and blaming lefty for all of their problems. They talk about fiscal consevative policies but do not want to roll up thier sleeves and do the work to figure one out, they just blame it on the lefty. They say and do things they do not think about and when proven wrong they say they did not do them. They say things like "I never said it was not following the law" and then look back and "Now he has been caught and there is an idiot left wing, George Soros supported Attorney General for Orange County who refuses to seek the death penalty which is the law in Florida." They call themselves conservatives but have no respect for conservative values such as the truth, personal responsibilty, respect, and results. They are not conservatives they are kindergarten, namby pamby, crying, wineing, i am rubber you are glue, panty wastes who bring shame on all true conservatives. True conservativesthat exhibited true conservative values like Ronald Reagan, Theodore Rosevelt, and Dwight D. Eisenhour who actually got things done. They governed, they did not complain like these fake conservative tee baggers flooding the boards today. Tee partiers go crawl under the rock ich you came from!!!!!!!!!!!!

Part of our problem, collectively, is we are defining ourselves by who we aren't, instead of what we believe in. Democrats aren't sure what they are for, they are just against Republicans. Republicans are in a similar boat. They are against whatever the Democrats are for. Conservatives are against anyone who appears soft on crime etc. Liberals are opposed to anyone who screams police are always right.

I'm sure you are correct in many cases but not in this case. I define myself quite definitely by who I am. I'm a Constitutional Conservative. That is what I believe in, the US Constitution. Constitutional Conservatives don't scream "The police are always right!" because sometimes the police are guilty of actions that violate our Constitutional rights.

We can't explain why we believe it, so the only answer left is we believe it because they don't. When faced with evidence that an ideal is wrong, most reasonable people will start to consider the information, or go looking for more information to shore up their belief.

I can absolutely explain why I believe what I believe. I do it all the time here on USMB. The issue in this thread is more of a moral one than a Constitutional one. I cannot just go to the Constitution for an explanation, but I have no problem explaining it.

But no philosophy is always all right, or all wrong. The Conservatives have some good points, and I think they are right on some issues. Just as I believe the Liberals, Libertarians, and strict constitutionalism types are right some of the time.

You're a fence-sitter, to each his own. I'm much more realistic. The Liberals are wrong on everything, the Libertarians are right on most things and we Constitutional Conservatives are pretty much right all the time.
 
Don't care. There are guarantees that come with execution: the perp will never again be able to harm an innocent person, or get freed by a judge or a POTUS. We don't execute people to save money, we do it to remove the murderer from society.

No we don't. We do it for revenge. If we wanted to remove them from society then putting them in a hole and forgetting about them is faster, cheaper, and far more efficient while being even more effective.

Appeals for those serving life without parole are not automatic as death penalty cases are. That means nobody is going to file an appeal. What the death row inmate has is hope. Hope for a new trial on some technicality or some new evidence. Evidence that dozens of people are pouring over constantly. The person serving life without has no such hope. Any minor inconsistency in the trial can and often is grounds for a new trial. The death row inmate will often get two or sometimes even three new trials because of some minor technicality.

Life without parole is actually far more cruel if you are looking to make the baddie suffer. I mentioned hope above. A decade goes by and visitation from family dwindles because they know the baddie is never getting out. There is time and they can skip this week for a trip with friends. Life goes on in other words.

It is far more likely that the death penalty case will get that commutation to simple life which means they are eligible for parole. It happened in Indiana. A cop killer got out of prison despite being sentenced to death three times.

Gary officer's family outraged as his killer is released from prison

Those automatic appeals work. Not all the time, or even most of the time, but often enough to give the baddie hope.

So it is cheaper, more effective, and far easier to go with life without parole. It is also more cruel, and safer for the community.

That leaves the real reason we sentence people to death. Revenge. We want the satisfaction of watching the man die, hoping to see him cry out. Hoping to see the fear in his eye, or see him struggle and be forced onto the gurney. But that never happens. The condemned has time to accept his fate, and seek salvation through religion, through faith. Plus they give the condemned sedatives to calm them down just so they don't have a scene like the one above.

No one fights for the life without parole convict like they do for the death penalty sentence. They put them in a hole and forget about them.

I don't agree that we do it for revenge, but whatever, we don't do it to save money.

I've demonstrated that each argument in favor is at best wrong. It doesn't remove the criminal from society. Life without parole is very rarely commuted or overturned unless there is DNA evidence that proves the convicted didn't do the crime. While that happened far more frequently with death penalty cases.

So the only thing left is revenge. Unless you are less honest with yourself than you were here in this thread.

Look at the link I provided again. Three trials. Three guilty findings. Three times he was sentenced to death. Each time a small technical error in the trial was enough for a new trial to be granted. Finally the DA decided to go with the equivalent of a plea bargain. A year later the cop killer was released with time served.

Why would the DA do it? Well the conviction was based largely on witnesses. Those witnesses were getting older and more reluctant to testify again and again. The State was getting tired of paying for trials over and over again.

Eventually the witnesses would be unavailable. Either from moving or death in the natural cycle. Eventually the appeals court would rule that the State had flubbed it one too many times and overturn the conviction. So a cop killer goes free. All because someone wanted to make a statement about being tough on crime and showing that they supported the police.

How does that make the victims family feel better? I'm sure they were sick of the trials being done over and over again. The constant legal wrangling and nitpicking over the minutiae were certainly infuriating.

How much better off would they be if they heard life without parole? Knowing that the guilty would never be free again would put closure on the wound wouldn't it?

But instead they wanted to go for the big win and they lost it all. The cop killer is free. The cop is still dead. The family could never move on because of the trials and then more trials. Pain, frustration, anger, and no closure.

If you want to punish the guilty. Then life without parole is the answer.

Ohio executes Brett Hartmann in slaying of Highland Square woman

I knew one of the relatives in that case. I saw what it does to the family. The execution took fifteen years. A decade and a half of living nightmare. Always wondering if the guilty would go free. Always wondering if new trials would start it all over again.

He said he had no desire to spend the rest of his life in prison and was hoping to win a second trial and secure additional DNA testing. He said his family knows he is innocent, and he hopes the search for Snipes’ true killer continues.

“I think we’re lucky on death row because we have an out,” Hartmann said. “It’s a harsh structure in prison, but at least we’re not in for 50 to 60 years. Death row is its own little enigma. We are in our own little world.

“But being locked up and away from family, it’s tough. I’m tired of fighting and no one listening. I’m tired of begging for money [and tired] of prison. So, there’s some relief.”

He said to the Warden "I'm good, let's roll".

Fifteen years before closure could even begin.
Idiots like PredFan have no interest in looking at the results of thier policies They do not care about the feelings of the family who are imprisoned by fifteen years of court trials. They do not care about the cost of the trials being significantly more than housing them in prison. They do not care that housing them in prison gets them off the street just as well as killing them with less undesirable side effect to the family and society. They do not care about anything but thinking they are always right and blaming lefty for all of their problems. They talk about fiscal consevative policies but do not want to roll up thier sleeves and do the work to figure one out, they just blame it on the lefty. They say and do things they do not think about and when proven wrong they say they did not do them. They say things like "I never said it was not following the law" and then look back and "Now he has been caught and there is an idiot left wing, George Soros supported Attorney General for Orange County who refuses to seek the death penalty which is the law in Florida." They call themselves conservatives but have no respect for conservative values such as the truth, personal responsibilty, respect, and results. They are not conservatives they are kindergarten, namby pamby, crying, wineing, i am rubber you are glue, panty wastes who bring shame on all true conservatives. True conservativesthat exhibited true conservative values like Ronald Reagan, Theodore Rosevelt, and Dwight D. Eisenhour who actually got things done. They governed, they did not complain like these fake conservative tee baggers flooding the boards today. Tee partiers go crawl under the rock ich you came from!!!!!!!!!!!!

Part of our problem, collectively, is we are defining ourselves by who we aren't, instead of what we believe in. Democrats aren't sure what they are for, they are just against Republicans. Republicans are in a similar boat. They are against whatever the Democrats are for. Conservatives are against anyone who appears soft on crime etc. Liberals are opposed to anyone who screams police are always right.

We can't explain why we believe it, so the only answer left is we believe it because they don't. When faced with evidence that an ideal is wrong, most reasonable people will start to consider the information, or go looking for more information to shore up their belief.

But no philosophy is always all right, or all wrong. The Conservatives have some good points, and I think they are right on some issues. Just as I believe the Liberals, Libertarians, and strict constitutionalism types are right some of the time.
Here is who I am. I am for positive results. Results that benefit the most people and the strength of my country, even when I may not be the one benefiting. I believe in looking at what worked in the past and keeping what did work and ditching what did not. I believe in adjusting my position when what worked in the past no longer works. I believe in an education! I believe in the melting pot theory. America became great by attracting the best minds in the world and putting those minds to work. I believe in telling the truth!!!!! I believe in admitting my mistakes, and busting my ass to correct them. I believe loyalty is a two way street. Companies should be loyal to their workers and workers should be loyal to their company. I believe in a living wage. I believe all have a right to free time and recreation. I believe all have a right to be healthy. I believe in right to life!! I believe in birth control and STD control. I believe instead of de-funding planned parenthood (which was formed by republicans) and killing birth control and STD control you over turn abortion. Cut out what is wrong but do not kill the whole animal. I believe in free press. I believe in the right to own a fire arm. I believe congress should do their “f”ing job and not pass the buck. I believe that our elected officials should have integrity and do what is best for their country, not tell every one what they want to hear to save their job. I believe we became great in part because we were the first country to guarantee public education. I do not believe in blaming all of my problems on a lefty conspiracy. I believe that buying a party line, any party line with out question is stupid and insane. I believe in following my logic to ad Ridiculum . I do not believe in blaming all of my problems on a lefty conspiracy. I do not believe that starting wars and not funding them is smart. I do not believe that building a wall will work to keep out illegal immigrants(a ladder or a tunnel defeats the wall). I do believe immigrants should come here a legal rout. I do believe building a wall will be a big waste of money. I do believe in investing in our future. Demanding shovel ready projects only for infrastructure is stupid. The civil engineers report is flat alarming, our roads, bridges, dams and sewers are failing D+ rating. These are very complicated things to build and maintain expecting them to fixed over night is flat stupid. These things take foresight and planning. We need a long term plan that is sustained by funding over the long haul giving our experts time time plan and fix them right. I believe hat 37% of every dollar made in the US going to taxes is too much and that 0% is to little. Adults need to be in the room that give the American public the truth in what needs to be accomplished.

When there are wars and failing infrastructure taxes need to go up, when these issues are resolved taxes need to go down. Considering we are in North America and our enemies are not on our border, spending more than the next ten largest armies put together is stupid and unsustainable especially when our infrastructure is failing. As you can see I do not follow any party line blindly and neither should you.
 
No we don't. We do it for revenge. If we wanted to remove them from society then putting them in a hole and forgetting about them is faster, cheaper, and far more efficient while being even more effective.

Appeals for those serving life without parole are not automatic as death penalty cases are. That means nobody is going to file an appeal. What the death row inmate has is hope. Hope for a new trial on some technicality or some new evidence. Evidence that dozens of people are pouring over constantly. The person serving life without has no such hope. Any minor inconsistency in the trial can and often is grounds for a new trial. The death row inmate will often get two or sometimes even three new trials because of some minor technicality.

Life without parole is actually far more cruel if you are looking to make the baddie suffer. I mentioned hope above. A decade goes by and visitation from family dwindles because they know the baddie is never getting out. There is time and they can skip this week for a trip with friends. Life goes on in other words.

It is far more likely that the death penalty case will get that commutation to simple life which means they are eligible for parole. It happened in Indiana. A cop killer got out of prison despite being sentenced to death three times.

Gary officer's family outraged as his killer is released from prison

Those automatic appeals work. Not all the time, or even most of the time, but often enough to give the baddie hope.

So it is cheaper, more effective, and far easier to go with life without parole. It is also more cruel, and safer for the community.

That leaves the real reason we sentence people to death. Revenge. We want the satisfaction of watching the man die, hoping to see him cry out. Hoping to see the fear in his eye, or see him struggle and be forced onto the gurney. But that never happens. The condemned has time to accept his fate, and seek salvation through religion, through faith. Plus they give the condemned sedatives to calm them down just so they don't have a scene like the one above.

No one fights for the life without parole convict like they do for the death penalty sentence. They put them in a hole and forget about them.

I don't agree that we do it for revenge, but whatever, we don't do it to save money.

I've demonstrated that each argument in favor is at best wrong. It doesn't remove the criminal from society. Life without parole is very rarely commuted or overturned unless there is DNA evidence that proves the convicted didn't do the crime. While that happened far more frequently with death penalty cases.

So the only thing left is revenge. Unless you are less honest with yourself than you were here in this thread.

Look at the link I provided again. Three trials. Three guilty findings. Three times he was sentenced to death. Each time a small technical error in the trial was enough for a new trial to be granted. Finally the DA decided to go with the equivalent of a plea bargain. A year later the cop killer was released with time served.

Why would the DA do it? Well the conviction was based largely on witnesses. Those witnesses were getting older and more reluctant to testify again and again. The State was getting tired of paying for trials over and over again.

Eventually the witnesses would be unavailable. Either from moving or death in the natural cycle. Eventually the appeals court would rule that the State had flubbed it one too many times and overturn the conviction. So a cop killer goes free. All because someone wanted to make a statement about being tough on crime and showing that they supported the police.

How does that make the victims family feel better? I'm sure they were sick of the trials being done over and over again. The constant legal wrangling and nitpicking over the minutiae were certainly infuriating.

How much better off would they be if they heard life without parole? Knowing that the guilty would never be free again would put closure on the wound wouldn't it?

But instead they wanted to go for the big win and they lost it all. The cop killer is free. The cop is still dead. The family could never move on because of the trials and then more trials. Pain, frustration, anger, and no closure.

If you want to punish the guilty. Then life without parole is the answer.

Ohio executes Brett Hartmann in slaying of Highland Square woman

I knew one of the relatives in that case. I saw what it does to the family. The execution took fifteen years. A decade and a half of living nightmare. Always wondering if the guilty would go free. Always wondering if new trials would start it all over again.

He said he had no desire to spend the rest of his life in prison and was hoping to win a second trial and secure additional DNA testing. He said his family knows he is innocent, and he hopes the search for Snipes’ true killer continues.

“I think we’re lucky on death row because we have an out,” Hartmann said. “It’s a harsh structure in prison, but at least we’re not in for 50 to 60 years. Death row is its own little enigma. We are in our own little world.

“But being locked up and away from family, it’s tough. I’m tired of fighting and no one listening. I’m tired of begging for money [and tired] of prison. So, there’s some relief.”

He said to the Warden "I'm good, let's roll".

Fifteen years before closure could even begin.
Idiots like PredFan have no interest in looking at the results of thier policies They do not care about the feelings of the family who are imprisoned by fifteen years of court trials. They do not care about the cost of the trials being significantly more than housing them in prison. They do not care that housing them in prison gets them off the street just as well as killing them with less undesirable side effect to the family and society. They do not care about anything but thinking they are always right and blaming lefty for all of their problems. They talk about fiscal consevative policies but do not want to roll up thier sleeves and do the work to figure one out, they just blame it on the lefty. They say and do things they do not think about and when proven wrong they say they did not do them. They say things like "I never said it was not following the law" and then look back and "Now he has been caught and there is an idiot left wing, George Soros supported Attorney General for Orange County who refuses to seek the death penalty which is the law in Florida." They call themselves conservatives but have no respect for conservative values such as the truth, personal responsibilty, respect, and results. They are not conservatives they are kindergarten, namby pamby, crying, wineing, i am rubber you are glue, panty wastes who bring shame on all true conservatives. True conservativesthat exhibited true conservative values like Ronald Reagan, Theodore Rosevelt, and Dwight D. Eisenhour who actually got things done. They governed, they did not complain like these fake conservative tee baggers flooding the boards today. Tee partiers go crawl under the rock ich you came from!!!!!!!!!!!!

Part of our problem, collectively, is we are defining ourselves by who we aren't, instead of what we believe in. Democrats aren't sure what they are for, they are just against Republicans. Republicans are in a similar boat. They are against whatever the Democrats are for. Conservatives are against anyone who appears soft on crime etc. Liberals are opposed to anyone who screams police are always right.

I'm sure you are correct in many cases but not in this case. I define myself quite definitely by who I am. I'm a Constitutional Conservative. That is what I believe in, the US Constitution. Constitutional Conservatives don't scream "The police are always right!" because sometimes the police are guilty of actions that violate our Constitutional rights.

We can't explain why we believe it, so the only answer left is we believe it because they don't. When faced with evidence that an ideal is wrong, most reasonable people will start to consider the information, or go looking for more information to shore up their belief.

I can absolutely explain why I believe what I believe. I do it all the time here on USMB. The issue in this thread is more of a moral one than a Constitutional one. I cannot just go to the Constitution for an explanation, but I have no problem explaining it.

But no philosophy is always all right, or all wrong. The Conservatives have some good points, and I think they are right on some issues. Just as I believe the Liberals, Libertarians, and strict constitutionalism types are right some of the time.

You're a fence-sitter, to each his own. I'm much more realistic. The Liberals are wrong on everything, the Libertarians are right on most things and we Constitutional Conservatives are pretty much right all the time.
Nobody is wrong all the time!!!! You sure as hell are not right most of the time. The death penalty is not better than life in prison. It is not as good of a punishment as one that keeps giving, it costs more, and it inflicts more damage on the publics pocket books and the family of the victome than life in prison. Lifein prison also allows the ability of correction for the wrongly accused. So how is yor position more moral? We pay judges to take into account the circumstances of the situation and apply logic to a particular situation. Your one size fits all approach does not work. As soon as you say some one is wrong all the time and you are right all the time you look like a fool and reasonable people want to go to sleep!!!!
 
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I don't agree that we do it for revenge, but whatever, we don't do it to save money.

I've demonstrated that each argument in favor is at best wrong. It doesn't remove the criminal from society. Life without parole is very rarely commuted or overturned unless there is DNA evidence that proves the convicted didn't do the crime. While that happened far more frequently with death penalty cases.

So the only thing left is revenge. Unless you are less honest with yourself than you were here in this thread.

Look at the link I provided again. Three trials. Three guilty findings. Three times he was sentenced to death. Each time a small technical error in the trial was enough for a new trial to be granted. Finally the DA decided to go with the equivalent of a plea bargain. A year later the cop killer was released with time served.

Why would the DA do it? Well the conviction was based largely on witnesses. Those witnesses were getting older and more reluctant to testify again and again. The State was getting tired of paying for trials over and over again.

Eventually the witnesses would be unavailable. Either from moving or death in the natural cycle. Eventually the appeals court would rule that the State had flubbed it one too many times and overturn the conviction. So a cop killer goes free. All because someone wanted to make a statement about being tough on crime and showing that they supported the police.

How does that make the victims family feel better? I'm sure they were sick of the trials being done over and over again. The constant legal wrangling and nitpicking over the minutiae were certainly infuriating.

How much better off would they be if they heard life without parole? Knowing that the guilty would never be free again would put closure on the wound wouldn't it?

But instead they wanted to go for the big win and they lost it all. The cop killer is free. The cop is still dead. The family could never move on because of the trials and then more trials. Pain, frustration, anger, and no closure.

If you want to punish the guilty. Then life without parole is the answer.

Ohio executes Brett Hartmann in slaying of Highland Square woman

I knew one of the relatives in that case. I saw what it does to the family. The execution took fifteen years. A decade and a half of living nightmare. Always wondering if the guilty would go free. Always wondering if new trials would start it all over again.

He said he had no desire to spend the rest of his life in prison and was hoping to win a second trial and secure additional DNA testing. He said his family knows he is innocent, and he hopes the search for Snipes’ true killer continues.

“I think we’re lucky on death row because we have an out,” Hartmann said. “It’s a harsh structure in prison, but at least we’re not in for 50 to 60 years. Death row is its own little enigma. We are in our own little world.

“But being locked up and away from family, it’s tough. I’m tired of fighting and no one listening. I’m tired of begging for money [and tired] of prison. So, there’s some relief.”

He said to the Warden "I'm good, let's roll".

Fifteen years before closure could even begin.
Idiots like PredFan have no interest in looking at the results of thier policies They do not care about the feelings of the family who are imprisoned by fifteen years of court trials. They do not care about the cost of the trials being significantly more than housing them in prison. They do not care that housing them in prison gets them off the street just as well as killing them with less undesirable side effect to the family and society. They do not care about anything but thinking they are always right and blaming lefty for all of their problems. They talk about fiscal consevative policies but do not want to roll up thier sleeves and do the work to figure one out, they just blame it on the lefty. They say and do things they do not think about and when proven wrong they say they did not do them. They say things like "I never said it was not following the law" and then look back and "Now he has been caught and there is an idiot left wing, George Soros supported Attorney General for Orange County who refuses to seek the death penalty which is the law in Florida." They call themselves conservatives but have no respect for conservative values such as the truth, personal responsibilty, respect, and results. They are not conservatives they are kindergarten, namby pamby, crying, wineing, i am rubber you are glue, panty wastes who bring shame on all true conservatives. True conservativesthat exhibited true conservative values like Ronald Reagan, Theodore Rosevelt, and Dwight D. Eisenhour who actually got things done. They governed, they did not complain like these fake conservative tee baggers flooding the boards today. Tee partiers go crawl under the rock ich you came from!!!!!!!!!!!!

Part of our problem, collectively, is we are defining ourselves by who we aren't, instead of what we believe in. Democrats aren't sure what they are for, they are just against Republicans. Republicans are in a similar boat. They are against whatever the Democrats are for. Conservatives are against anyone who appears soft on crime etc. Liberals are opposed to anyone who screams police are always right.

I'm sure you are correct in many cases but not in this case. I define myself quite definitely by who I am. I'm a Constitutional Conservative. That is what I believe in, the US Constitution. Constitutional Conservatives don't scream "The police are always right!" because sometimes the police are guilty of actions that violate our Constitutional rights.

We can't explain why we believe it, so the only answer left is we believe it because they don't. When faced with evidence that an ideal is wrong, most reasonable people will start to consider the information, or go looking for more information to shore up their belief.

I can absolutely explain why I believe what I believe. I do it all the time here on USMB. The issue in this thread is more of a moral one than a Constitutional one. I cannot just go to the Constitution for an explanation, but I have no problem explaining it.

But no philosophy is always all right, or all wrong. The Conservatives have some good points, and I think they are right on some issues. Just as I believe the Liberals, Libertarians, and strict constitutionalism types are right some of the time.

You're a fence-sitter, to each his own. I'm much more realistic. The Liberals are wrong on everything, the Libertarians are right on most things and we Constitutional Conservatives are pretty much right all the time.
Nobody is wrong all the time!!!! You sure as hell are not right most of the time. The death penalty is not better than life in prison. It is not as good of a punishment as one that keeps giving, it costs more, and it inflicts more damage on the publics pocket books and the family of the victome than life in prison. Lifein prison also allows the ability of correction for the wrongly accused. So how is yor position more moral? We pay judges to take into account the circumstances of the situation and apply logic to a particular situation. Your one size fits all approach does not work. As soon as you say some one is wrong all the time and you are right all the time you look like a fool and reasonable people want to go to sleep!!!!
PredFan, if you would quit saying you are right all of the time, blaming all your problems on liberals
and saying liberals are wrong always I might actually try to respect your opinions. When ever taking a test and there is a true or false question that has the word never or always in it, it is always false. Until then you are an unreasonable idiot tee partier that high jacked the republican party to me.
 
I don't agree that we do it for revenge, but whatever, we don't do it to save money.

I've demonstrated that each argument in favor is at best wrong. It doesn't remove the criminal from society. Life without parole is very rarely commuted or overturned unless there is DNA evidence that proves the convicted didn't do the crime. While that happened far more frequently with death penalty cases.

So the only thing left is revenge. Unless you are less honest with yourself than you were here in this thread.

Look at the link I provided again. Three trials. Three guilty findings. Three times he was sentenced to death. Each time a small technical error in the trial was enough for a new trial to be granted. Finally the DA decided to go with the equivalent of a plea bargain. A year later the cop killer was released with time served.

Why would the DA do it? Well the conviction was based largely on witnesses. Those witnesses were getting older and more reluctant to testify again and again. The State was getting tired of paying for trials over and over again.

Eventually the witnesses would be unavailable. Either from moving or death in the natural cycle. Eventually the appeals court would rule that the State had flubbed it one too many times and overturn the conviction. So a cop killer goes free. All because someone wanted to make a statement about being tough on crime and showing that they supported the police.

How does that make the victims family feel better? I'm sure they were sick of the trials being done over and over again. The constant legal wrangling and nitpicking over the minutiae were certainly infuriating.

How much better off would they be if they heard life without parole? Knowing that the guilty would never be free again would put closure on the wound wouldn't it?

But instead they wanted to go for the big win and they lost it all. The cop killer is free. The cop is still dead. The family could never move on because of the trials and then more trials. Pain, frustration, anger, and no closure.

If you want to punish the guilty. Then life without parole is the answer.

Ohio executes Brett Hartmann in slaying of Highland Square woman

I knew one of the relatives in that case. I saw what it does to the family. The execution took fifteen years. A decade and a half of living nightmare. Always wondering if the guilty would go free. Always wondering if new trials would start it all over again.

He said he had no desire to spend the rest of his life in prison and was hoping to win a second trial and secure additional DNA testing. He said his family knows he is innocent, and he hopes the search for Snipes’ true killer continues.

“I think we’re lucky on death row because we have an out,” Hartmann said. “It’s a harsh structure in prison, but at least we’re not in for 50 to 60 years. Death row is its own little enigma. We are in our own little world.

“But being locked up and away from family, it’s tough. I’m tired of fighting and no one listening. I’m tired of begging for money [and tired] of prison. So, there’s some relief.”

He said to the Warden "I'm good, let's roll".

Fifteen years before closure could even begin.
Idiots like PredFan have no interest in looking at the results of thier policies They do not care about the feelings of the family who are imprisoned by fifteen years of court trials. They do not care about the cost of the trials being significantly more than housing them in prison. They do not care that housing them in prison gets them off the street just as well as killing them with less undesirable side effect to the family and society. They do not care about anything but thinking they are always right and blaming lefty for all of their problems. They talk about fiscal consevative policies but do not want to roll up thier sleeves and do the work to figure one out, they just blame it on the lefty. They say and do things they do not think about and when proven wrong they say they did not do them. They say things like "I never said it was not following the law" and then look back and "Now he has been caught and there is an idiot left wing, George Soros supported Attorney General for Orange County who refuses to seek the death penalty which is the law in Florida." They call themselves conservatives but have no respect for conservative values such as the truth, personal responsibilty, respect, and results. They are not conservatives they are kindergarten, namby pamby, crying, wineing, i am rubber you are glue, panty wastes who bring shame on all true conservatives. True conservativesthat exhibited true conservative values like Ronald Reagan, Theodore Rosevelt, and Dwight D. Eisenhour who actually got things done. They governed, they did not complain like these fake conservative tee baggers flooding the boards today. Tee partiers go crawl under the rock ich you came from!!!!!!!!!!!!

Part of our problem, collectively, is we are defining ourselves by who we aren't, instead of what we believe in. Democrats aren't sure what they are for, they are just against Republicans. Republicans are in a similar boat. They are against whatever the Democrats are for. Conservatives are against anyone who appears soft on crime etc. Liberals are opposed to anyone who screams police are always right.

I'm sure you are correct in many cases but not in this case. I define myself quite definitely by who I am. I'm a Constitutional Conservative. That is what I believe in, the US Constitution. Constitutional Conservatives don't scream "The police are always right!" because sometimes the police are guilty of actions that violate our Constitutional rights.

We can't explain why we believe it, so the only answer left is we believe it because they don't. When faced with evidence that an ideal is wrong, most reasonable people will start to consider the information, or go looking for more information to shore up their belief.

I can absolutely explain why I believe what I believe. I do it all the time here on USMB. The issue in this thread is more of a moral one than a Constitutional one. I cannot just go to the Constitution for an explanation, but I have no problem explaining it.

But no philosophy is always all right, or all wrong. The Conservatives have some good points, and I think they are right on some issues. Just as I believe the Liberals, Libertarians, and strict constitutionalism types are right some of the time.

You're a fence-sitter, to each his own. I'm much more realistic. The Liberals are wrong on everything, the Libertarians are right on most things and we Constitutional Conservatives are pretty much right all the time.
Nobody is wrong all the time!!!! You sure as hell are not right most of the time. The death penalty is not better than life in prison. It is not as good of a punishment as one that keeps giving, it costs more, and it inflicts more damage on the publics pocket books and the family of the victome than life in prison. Lifein prison also allows the ability of correction for the wrongly accused. So how is yor position more moral? We pay judges to take into account the circumstances of the situation and apply logic to a particular situation. Your one size fits all approach does not work. As soon as you say some one is wrong all the time and you are right all the time you look like a fool and reasonable people want to go to sleep!!!!

I never said it was more moral.

My approach does work. You kill the killer and he never kills again, guaranteed. See? I'm right again.
 
I've demonstrated that each argument in favor is at best wrong. It doesn't remove the criminal from society. Life without parole is very rarely commuted or overturned unless there is DNA evidence that proves the convicted didn't do the crime. While that happened far more frequently with death penalty cases.

So the only thing left is revenge. Unless you are less honest with yourself than you were here in this thread.

Look at the link I provided again. Three trials. Three guilty findings. Three times he was sentenced to death. Each time a small technical error in the trial was enough for a new trial to be granted. Finally the DA decided to go with the equivalent of a plea bargain. A year later the cop killer was released with time served.

Why would the DA do it? Well the conviction was based largely on witnesses. Those witnesses were getting older and more reluctant to testify again and again. The State was getting tired of paying for trials over and over again.

Eventually the witnesses would be unavailable. Either from moving or death in the natural cycle. Eventually the appeals court would rule that the State had flubbed it one too many times and overturn the conviction. So a cop killer goes free. All because someone wanted to make a statement about being tough on crime and showing that they supported the police.

How does that make the victims family feel better? I'm sure they were sick of the trials being done over and over again. The constant legal wrangling and nitpicking over the minutiae were certainly infuriating.

How much better off would they be if they heard life without parole? Knowing that the guilty would never be free again would put closure on the wound wouldn't it?

But instead they wanted to go for the big win and they lost it all. The cop killer is free. The cop is still dead. The family could never move on because of the trials and then more trials. Pain, frustration, anger, and no closure.

If you want to punish the guilty. Then life without parole is the answer.

Ohio executes Brett Hartmann in slaying of Highland Square woman

I knew one of the relatives in that case. I saw what it does to the family. The execution took fifteen years. A decade and a half of living nightmare. Always wondering if the guilty would go free. Always wondering if new trials would start it all over again.

He said to the Warden "I'm good, let's roll".

Fifteen years before closure could even begin.
Idiots like PredFan have no interest in looking at the results of thier policies They do not care about the feelings of the family who are imprisoned by fifteen years of court trials. They do not care about the cost of the trials being significantly more than housing them in prison. They do not care that housing them in prison gets them off the street just as well as killing them with less undesirable side effect to the family and society. They do not care about anything but thinking they are always right and blaming lefty for all of their problems. They talk about fiscal consevative policies but do not want to roll up thier sleeves and do the work to figure one out, they just blame it on the lefty. They say and do things they do not think about and when proven wrong they say they did not do them. They say things like "I never said it was not following the law" and then look back and "Now he has been caught and there is an idiot left wing, George Soros supported Attorney General for Orange County who refuses to seek the death penalty which is the law in Florida." They call themselves conservatives but have no respect for conservative values such as the truth, personal responsibilty, respect, and results. They are not conservatives they are kindergarten, namby pamby, crying, wineing, i am rubber you are glue, panty wastes who bring shame on all true conservatives. True conservativesthat exhibited true conservative values like Ronald Reagan, Theodore Rosevelt, and Dwight D. Eisenhour who actually got things done. They governed, they did not complain like these fake conservative tee baggers flooding the boards today. Tee partiers go crawl under the rock ich you came from!!!!!!!!!!!!

Part of our problem, collectively, is we are defining ourselves by who we aren't, instead of what we believe in. Democrats aren't sure what they are for, they are just against Republicans. Republicans are in a similar boat. They are against whatever the Democrats are for. Conservatives are against anyone who appears soft on crime etc. Liberals are opposed to anyone who screams police are always right.

I'm sure you are correct in many cases but not in this case. I define myself quite definitely by who I am. I'm a Constitutional Conservative. That is what I believe in, the US Constitution. Constitutional Conservatives don't scream "The police are always right!" because sometimes the police are guilty of actions that violate our Constitutional rights.

We can't explain why we believe it, so the only answer left is we believe it because they don't. When faced with evidence that an ideal is wrong, most reasonable people will start to consider the information, or go looking for more information to shore up their belief.

I can absolutely explain why I believe what I believe. I do it all the time here on USMB. The issue in this thread is more of a moral one than a Constitutional one. I cannot just go to the Constitution for an explanation, but I have no problem explaining it.

But no philosophy is always all right, or all wrong. The Conservatives have some good points, and I think they are right on some issues. Just as I believe the Liberals, Libertarians, and strict constitutionalism types are right some of the time.

You're a fence-sitter, to each his own. I'm much more realistic. The Liberals are wrong on everything, the Libertarians are right on most things and we Constitutional Conservatives are pretty much right all the time.
Nobody is wrong all the time!!!! You sure as hell are not right most of the time. The death penalty is not better than life in prison. It is not as good of a punishment as one that keeps giving, it costs more, and it inflicts more damage on the publics pocket books and the family of the victome than life in prison. Lifein prison also allows the ability of correction for the wrongly accused. So how is yor position more moral? We pay judges to take into account the circumstances of the situation and apply logic to a particular situation. Your one size fits all approach does not work. As soon as you say some one is wrong all the time and you are right all the time you look like a fool and reasonable people want to go to sleep!!!!
PredFan, if you would quit saying you are right all of the time, blaming all your problems on liberals
and saying liberals are wrong always I might actually try to respect your opinions. When ever taking a test and there is a true or false question that has the word never or always in it, it is always false. Until then you are an unreasonable idiot tee partier that high jacked the republican party to me.

Hmmm... I see a problem here. You think I care about your opinion of me. Let me assure you that I do not.
 
Life in prison with no chance of parole is a far greater punishment than the death penalty.

With the death penalty, once they flip that switch, the punishment is over.
 
Life in prison with no chance of parole is a far greater punishment than the death penalty.

With the death penalty, once they flip that switch, the punishment is over.
You are just a fool Predfan. You just regurgitate the same line over and over. You ignore all points that prove you wrong and do not even attempt to argue point by point. Go back to grade school where maybe you can win an argument. You are incapable of learning or growth. A constitutional conservative my ass you are not smart enough to understand the constitution.

Thank you Mr. Clean and Savanaman nice to meet some one capable of thought!!!!
 
Life in prison with no chance of parole is a far greater punishment than the death penalty.

With the death penalty, once they flip that switch, the punishment is over.
You are just a fool Predfan. You just regurgitate the same line over and over. You ignore all points that prove you wrong and do not even attempt to argue point by point. Go back to grade school where maybe you can win an argument. You are incapable of learning or growth. A constitutional conservative my ass you are not smart enough to understand the constitution.

Yo!

I'm not Predfan
 
Life in prison with no chance of parole is a far greater punishment than the death penalty.

With the death penalty, once they flip that switch, the punishment is over.
You are just a fool Predfan. You just regurgitate the same line over and over. You ignore all points that prove you wrong and do not even attempt to argue point by point. Go back to grade school where maybe you can win an argument. You are incapable of learning or growth. A constitutional conservative my ass you are not smart enough to understand the constitution.

Yo!

I'm not Predfan
thank god for that!!! Mr clean I hope ya keep truckin and keep thinking. My thank you was a sincere one I like people who think as you have demonstrated!!! Ya, I should have hit reply to Predfan instead of you sorry about that
 
Life in prison with no chance of parole is a far greater punishment than the death penalty.

With the death penalty, once they flip that switch, the punishment is over.
You are just a fool Predfan. You just regurgitate the same line over and over. You ignore all points that prove you wrong and do not even attempt to argue point by point. Go back to grade school where maybe you can win an argument. You are incapable of learning or growth. A constitutional conservative my ass you are not smart enough to understand the constitution.

Yo!

I'm not Predfan

He's not too bright.
 

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