Why Conservatives Are Really The Same As Communists

[Avatar4321]

Just like it is happening today by trying to cramp your programs down people throats.

Such as?

And by being ignorant .
We know the final destination of your progressive nightmare.
Forced labor and gas chambers .
No thanks.

I support forced labour and gas chambers only as punishment for murderers and other persons guilty of horrible crimes.

My vision would be more like extending the FEC into a union (a compromise between federation and confederation, much like the FF envisioned) of independent townships and cites, working together for mutual defense, coordinating the development of infrastructure, working together to ensure the peace (eg: extraditing criminals), and encouraging fair trade. It would be governed in a federalist manner, with each level of cooperation being weaker than those behind it in all areas save coordination of military forces and specific legislative and other functions (eg: the universal ban on unjustifiable homicide- murder and manslaughter- cannot be overruled by any town or state). The system would be supported through taxation- that is an income tax would help support the functions of the central government while local taxes would fund city/county/state functions and projects (as this Union was meant to be).

Sound familiar? It's what the Founding Fathers envisioned and set forth in the Constitution of the united States. The primary difference is that in my 'Red Republic' (if you need something to call it), corporate charters would not be recognized and there would be very strong Constitutional language limiting the actions of the central government (the Fed, under the current system) and coops would be encouraged while companies would not be able to sell their products in the country unless their factories met our environmental and workers' rights laws, regardless of where the factories were located. This prevents the child labour and environmental devastation characteristic of the current system. All states/cities would be required to provide emergency medical care and routine physicals for all citizens. The means of doing so (local clinics, public insurance, or whatever) would be left to the member States and the jurisdiction beneath them, although public clinics would be encouraged over publicly owned insurance companies.

That is my vision. That is what you fear: a nation, not to unlike that promised by the FF, built on human rights.

Interesting vision.

First question, when did the Founders support Income tax? If that's the way they wanted the Federal Government to be run, why did we have to pass an amendment 150 years later to allow it?

Second, how do you justify forcing anyone to work?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Wow.

Yep.

Amazing, isn't it- socialism fits perfectly with what the FF promised!


Once again, you look like an idiot.

 

[Avatar4321]

You make a good point....to a degree.

At the end of the day, corporations can't be trusted....If corporations were a lot more realistic and moral - and the bottom line wasn't all about money - then I think there would be an excellent case for less govt involvement in a whole slew of things. Unfortunately, at every turn - in my experience - corporations will get away with what they can...

Corporations are just groups of people joint together on a business venture. They don't think. They can't be good or evil. They are just a vehicle for the people who run them. They cant be moral. And considering you can't make money without some basis in reality, I dont see how the people running them can be unrealistic.

Sounds like your problem is wth people. So what do you think should be done with these people that you can't trust?

Oh, and since Corporations are a product of the states, why on earth does that justify Federal action into areas not authorized by the Constitution?

 

[Avatar4321]

Wow.

Yep.

Amazing, isn't it- socialism fits perfectly with what the FF promised!


Once again, you look like an idiot.

Right....

 

[☭proletarian☭]

You make a good point....to a degree.

At the end of the day, corporations can't be trusted....If corporations were a lot more realistic and moral - and the bottom line wasn't all about money - then I think there would be an excellent case for less govt involvement in a whole slew of things. Unfortunately, at every turn - in my experience - corporations will get away with what they can...

Corporations are just groups of people joint together on a business venture. They don't think. They can't be good or evil. They are just a vehicle for the people who run them. They cant be moral. And considering you can't make money without some basis in reality, I dont see how the people running them can be unrealistic.

Sounds like your problem is wth people. So what do you think should be done with these people that you can't trust?

Oh, and since Corporations are a product of the states, why on earth does that justify Federal action into areas not authorized by the Constitution?

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

 

[Oddball]

I think most people want that....

Then why on earth so many argue to empower government to control every aspect of our lives? It's designed not to specifically so we can remain free.

You make a good point....to a degree.

At the end of the day, corporations can't be trusted....If corporations were a lot more realistic and moral - and the bottom line wasn't all about money - then I think there would be an excellent case for less govt involvement in a whole slew of things. Unfortunately, at every turn - in my experience - corporations will get away with what they can...

Well gee...You don't think that might possibly have something to do with the second highest corporate tax rate in the world, do ya?

Y'know....Conflicting interests and all that?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Wow.

Yep.

Amazing, isn't it- socialism fits perfectly with what the FF promised!


Once again, you look like an idiot.

Right....

My vision is posted above.


Feel free to demonstrate anything wrong with it.

 

[Dr Grump]

You make a good point....to a degree.

At the end of the day, corporations can't be trusted....If corporations were a lot more realistic and moral - and the bottom line wasn't all about money - then I think there would be an excellent case for less govt involvement in a whole slew of things. Unfortunately, at every turn - in my experience - corporations will get away with what they can...

Corporations are just groups of people joint together on a business venture. They don't think. They can't be good or evil. They are just a vehicle for the people who run them. They cant be moral. And considering you can't make money without some basis in reality, I dont see how the people running them can be unrealistic.

Sounds like your problem is wth people. So what do you think should be done with these people that you can't trust?

Oh, and since Corporations are a product of the states, why on earth does that justify Federal action into areas not authorized by the Constitution?

Ok, for every time I've said the word "corporations" in the above add the word "people who run" before it...

I think some sort of moral governance would do so, but that would be against the tenets of capitalism, which is one of the main planks of US thought.

Don't really know enough about states and federal interaction. From an observer's POV, it seems conservatives in the US don't want federal interference in State's rights, unless it is something that fits their agenda...In that regard, why stop at State's rights? Why not go down to county level? Then why not towns or cities within those counties? Then why not suburbs within those towns or cities? Then why not streets? Then why not houses? Maybe stop at individuals so everybody is a law unto themselves?

 

[Avatar4321]

My vision is posted above.


Feel free to demonstrate anything wrong with it.

Im fairly certain I already commented on your vision. Well, at least the comments I wanted to make. Feel free to respond if you want to. If not, I'm not really going to care. It's your vision. I don't have to go along with it.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Just like it is happening today by trying to cramp your programs down people throats.

Such as?

And by being ignorant .
We know the final destination of your progressive nightmare.
Forced labor and gas chambers .
No thanks.

I support forced labour and gas chambers only as punishment for murderers and other persons guilty of horrible crimes.

Enemies of the state.
Yeah where to start.

Belarus declares Rammstein an enemy of the state - The Local

 

[rdean]

I think comparing conservatives to communists is a poor choice.

My guess would be "monarchists". Conservatives see "rich people" as the new "royalty". Laws don't apply to them. They are the givers of all things, jobs, charity, everything.

They shouldn't be taxed or they might become "angry" and "leave" and the country will fall apart.

Conservatives dream of being "rich" and how you become "rich" doesn't matter as long as you can become rich. Anyone can be excused of anything if it leaves you "rich".

oh and Democrats dont act like the rich are royalty.........Pelosi came into Orange County last month and attracted every fucking rich person around at something like 30 thousand a plate....all of them drooling over each other.....acting like she is the fucking Queen.....you would have loved it Dean....these were your kinda people.....people who think their shit dont stink.....of course if you were there your Queen would have had you waiting tables....sorry,you dont cut it....your not rich enough to "mingle" with the snobs.....

So you're saying you want to "mingle" with Democrats?

 

[Avatar4321]

Ok, for every time I've said the word "corporations" in the above add the word "people who run" before it...

Can do. It also eliminates my need to ask you why you specify corporations and not any other type of business.

I think people who run any sort of business, corporation or otherwise, are a whole mix of people. They are just like anyone else. Some are great men and women. Others are complete reprobates.

I also think it isnt right to punish the good ones just because you might get some scoundrels while you are at it. I think people need to deal with people the same way, you be careful who you trust, and if you trust the wrong people, well unfortunately, you learn an expensive or painful lesson sometimes. It's part of life. And if there is any misconduct, we've got an extensive criminal and tort legal regime to hold them accountable.

I think some sort of moral governance would do so, but that would be against the tenets of capitalism, which is one of the main planks of US thought.

I think we have a moral governance in place already. I also think, that we shouldnt always turn to new legislation to fix problems with morality and honesty. In fact, I think it's quite more effective to teach it, then to pass a law punishing it.

Don't really know enough about states and federal interaction. From an observer's POV, it seems conservatives in the US don't want federal interference in State's rights, unless it is something that fits their agenda...In that regard, why stop at State's rights? Why not go down to county level? Then why not towns or cities within those counties? Then why not suburbs within those towns or cities? Then why not streets? Then why not houses? Maybe stop at individuals so everybody is a law unto themselves?

I don't want the Federal government interfering in States rights period. The Federal Government has it's enumerated powers. The States and the people control the rest.

Individual communities are granted authority to organize by the State. But it's the state that was designed to keep control of the main governing power because it is thought that it's small enough to govern with the people having a say in the matter. The United States are, in fact, united States.

The problem is balancing power. If you put too much power in one institution of government, you will have tyranny. That's why the Framers separated powers between branches of government and between State and Federal. If you didn't youd have tyranny. But if you separate power too much nothing gets done. Can you imagine what this nation would be like if all the citizens just had up and down votes to govern us every week. There would be no protection of rights. We'd have abosolute chaos.

But I'm digressing. I just like the Republic. It's good. And the Fruits of it, notwithstanding a bad apple here and there, have been good.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

how do you justify forcing anyone to work?

Simple. The same way I justify prison. They're murderers and serial rapists. They've surrendered their rights through their actions.

Forced labour is an alternative to execution that does not kill them and also doesn't punish the rest of society by forcing us to support them.

For lesser offenses, work programs also teach skills they can use for gainful employment upon release.

How do you justify making a woman support her rapist with her tax dollars?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Just like it is happening today by trying to cramp your programs down people throats.

Such as?

And by being ignorant .
We know the final destination of your progressive nightmare.
Forced labor and gas chambers .
No thanks.

I support forced labour and gas chambers only as punishment for murderers and other persons guilty of horrible crimes.

Enemies of the state.
.

Do cite where I ever spoke of any such thing.



You can't, because I didn't.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I also think, that we shouldnt always turn to new legislation to fix problems with morality and honesty.

Madoff's ilk will appreciate that.

I don't want the Federal government interfering in States rights period.

Sounds like my system would be more to your liking than what we've now.

The Federal Government has it's enumerated powers. The States and the people control the rest.

Sounds like my proposal.

Individual communities are granted authority to organize by the State. But it's the state that was designed to keep control of the main governing power because it is thought that it's small enough to govern with the people having a say in the matter.

New England, yes. California, not so much.

I just like the Republic.

So you're with me?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Such as?

I support forced labour and gas chambers only as punishment for murderers and other persons guilty of horrible crimes.

Enemies of the state.
.

Do cite where I ever spoke of any such thing.



You can't, because I didn't.

It goes with the territory you have staked out.

 

[Avatar4321]

Madoff's ilk will appreciate that.

Madoff's ilk wouldn't be able to rip people off it they paid close attention to their investments and realized that if something seems too good to be true, it probably is.

Sounds like my system would be more to your liking than what we've now.

I don't think the system now is bad, assuming we actually followed it.

New England, yes. California, not so much.

True, Im honestly quite surprised there havent been parts of California who have wanted to create their own state by now. I mean West Virginia did that.

So you're with me?

Not if you're for socialism.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Enemies of the state.
.

Do cite where I ever spoke of any such thing.



You can't, because I didn't.

It goes with the territory you have staked out.

Which territory might that be? Limited government? Human rights? A federated* republican form of government?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Do cite where I ever spoke of any such thing.



You can't, because I didn't.

It goes with the territory you have staked out.

Which territory might that be? Limited government? Human rights? A federated* republican form of government?

We are 'progressives'; we differ only what what we deem progress and what we deem the final destination.

How is that final solution coming along?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Who said anything about a 'final solution'?


I told you the end goal.