Why Conservatives Are Really The Same As Communists

[rdean]

I think comparing conservatives to communists is a poor choice.

My guess would be "monarchists". Conservatives see "rich people" as the new "royalty". Laws don't apply to them. They are the givers of all things, jobs, charity, everything.

They shouldn't be taxed or they might become "angry" and "leave" and the country will fall apart.

Conservatives dream of being "rich" and how you become "rich" doesn't matter as long as you can become rich. Anyone can be excused of anything if it leaves you "rich".

 

[Againsheila]

Communist doctrine demands that all people are created equal, but as Orwell pointed out, 'some are more equal than others'. IOW, the reality is a whole lot different.

With conservatives (on this board anyway), they want everybody to be equal. ie: if you work hard, are not a lazy arse, then you will get the rewards you deserve just like everybody else.

Now, the thing is, if we all managed to fulfil the Conservative Doctrine - ie, full employment, work hard, and enjoy the fruits of our labour, then isn't that communism? We'll all be the same? We all would have the same working conditions etc?

I am being slightly facetious, but I'm really trying to point out how ridiculous conservative thought is. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system? Do they really believe that? If so, then they are morons, because even the most dimmest lightbulb on either aisle knows that there are not enough jobs that pay $120,000 a year plus benefits. They know that when they yell "Stop whining about your lot in life and get yourself a better job", that if everybody ACTUALLY attempted this, then there are not enough jobs to go around. IOW, they are demanding of EVERYBODY, something that in reality can never happen.

This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit. All they see is their own set of circumstances and achievements, and can't for the life of them figure out that their end game is some idealised Utopia that is impossible to fulfil.


Rant over....

hear hear!

 

[MaggieMae]

Communist doctrine demands that all people are created equal, but as Orwell pointed out, 'some are more equal than others'. IOW, the reality is a whole lot different.

With conservatives (on this board anyway), they want everybody to be equal. ie: if you work hard, are not a lazy arse, then you will get the rewards you deserve just like everybody else.

Now, the thing is, if we all managed to fulfil the Conservative Doctrine - ie, full employment, work hard, and enjoy the fruits of our labour, then isn't that communism? We'll all be the same? We all would have the same working conditions etc?

I am being slightly facetious, but I'm really trying to point out how ridiculous conservative thought is. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system? Do they really believe that? If so, then they are morons, because even the most dimmest lightbulb on either aisle knows that there are not enough jobs that pay $120,000 a year plus benefits. They know that when they yell "Stop whining about your lot in life and get yourself a better job", that if everybody ACTUALLY attempted this, then there are not enough jobs to go around. IOW, they are demanding of EVERYBODY, something that in reality can never happen.

This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit. All they see is their own set of circumstances and achievements, and can't for the life of them figure out that their end game is some idealised Utopia that is impossible to fulfil.


Rant over....

The communists are on the left and the left is full of %&#@%. Conservatives want people to be self sufficient and not dependent on the gov't like the left wants.

Well it may come as a shock to you, but that's what the left would also like. Unfortunately, the left are the ones who realistically see that as being next to impossible in today's world. I think you've missed the point of the OP: Self-sufficient at what? It isn't as though there are hundreds of job classifications that everyone has a shot at. Someone who lives in a high rise in the projects doesn't have a space to grow a garden full of vegetables nor raise his own livestock, nor hop a cab every day to a good paying job in Manhattan.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Communist doctrine demands that all people are created equal, but as Orwell pointed out, 'some are more equal than others'. IOW, the reality is a whole lot different.

With conservatives (on this board anyway), they want everybody to be equal. ie: if you work hard, are not a lazy arse, then you will get the rewards you deserve just like everybody else.

Now, the thing is, if we all managed to fulfil the Conservative Doctrine - ie, full employment, work hard, and enjoy the fruits of our labour, then isn't that communism? We'll all be the same? We all would have the same working conditions etc?

I am being slightly facetious, but I'm really trying to point out how ridiculous conservative thought is. Do conservatives really believe that we can ALL have excellent paying jobs, benefits and therefore not be a burden on the tax system? Do they really believe that? If so, then they are morons, because even the most dimmest lightbulb on either aisle knows that there are not enough jobs that pay $120,000 a year plus benefits. They know that when they yell "Stop whining about your lot in life and get yourself a better job", that if everybody ACTUALLY attempted this, then there are not enough jobs to go around. IOW, they are demanding of EVERYBODY, something that in reality can never happen.

This is why when it comes to jobs and the free market, conservatives are full of shit. All they see is their own set of circumstances and achievements, and can't for the life of them figure out that their end game is some idealised Utopia that is impossible to fulfil.


Rant over....

Too bad, I liked your rant.

Once uber conservatives who think like that ^ take the leap from ideology to the real world, they find it's not so easy. Thus we have all those pro-Bush folks who will now deny they ever were and are attempting to reformulate that old non-workable ideology all over again.

Conservatism works in real life. It's Liberalism and Progressivism that doesn't work the way they want. You see your philosophy works in a classroom at Harvard but whenever it's applied it always ends up in the same disastrous manner. Then you loose favor with the voters and your asses have to whine about it for years until you can fool enough people into trusting you again.

Conservatism's not an ideology.

Liberalism doesn't 'work'? Good to know you agree. The FF would have disagreed, though.

We are 'progressives'; we differ only what what we deem progress and what we deem the final destination.

How does one 'loose favor'?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Clinton and the Republicans managed to wipe the slate clean by a combination of spending cuts and tax hikes. This is how it will happen again, only the different players need to open up the old rule book.

i believe that happened because there was a balance ....it seems this country works well or better when we have a good Balance of Dems and Repubs ......we have seen how things work if one side runs things.....now we are seeing it again.....only now its the other side of the coin....none of them though seem to know what..."stop spending" means....

 

[Harry Dresden]

I think comparing conservatives to communists is a poor choice.

My guess would be "monarchists". Conservatives see "rich people" as the new "royalty". Laws don't apply to them. They are the givers of all things, jobs, charity, everything.

They shouldn't be taxed or they might become "angry" and "leave" and the country will fall apart.

Conservatives dream of being "rich" and how you become "rich" doesn't matter as long as you can become rich. Anyone can be excused of anything if it leaves you "rich".

oh and Democrats dont act like the rich are royalty.........Pelosi came into Orange County last month and attracted every fucking rich person around at something like 30 thousand a plate....all of them drooling over each other.....acting like she is the fucking Queen.....you would have loved it Dean....these were your kinda people.....people who think their shit dont stink.....of course if you were there your Queen would have had you waiting tables....sorry,you dont cut it....your not rich enough to "mingle" with the snobs.....

 

[MaggieMae]

Clinton and the Republicans managed to wipe the slate clean by a combination of spending cuts and tax hikes. This is how it will happen again, only the different players need to open up the old rule book.

i believe that happened because there was a balance ....it seems this country works well or better when we have a good Balance of Dems and Repubs ......we have seen how things work if one side runs things.....now we are seeing it again.....only now its the other side of the coin....none of them though seem to know what..."stop spending" means....

I know most of you don't believe me, but I'm really hoping that Republicans DO win some meaningful seats next November. This has got to stop. A balance of power is what the framers of the Constitution envisioned, and I imagine they've all been doing several turns per day over this mess that exists now, which amounts to no more than tit-for-tat governing. Capitol Hill is not intended to be like a sandbox with a bunch of cry babies out for revenge against whoever lost the last election cycle.

 

[Avatar4321]

I want to freedom to work, create, succeed, or fail without the help or hinderence of government. If that's communist, then you are smoking some powerful weed.

 

[MaggieMae]

I think comparing conservatives to communists is a poor choice.

My guess would be "monarchists". Conservatives see "rich people" as the new "royalty". Laws don't apply to them. They are the givers of all things, jobs, charity, everything.

They shouldn't be taxed or they might become "angry" and "leave" and the country will fall apart.

Conservatives dream of being "rich" and how you become "rich" doesn't matter as long as you can become rich. Anyone can be excused of anything if it leaves you "rich".

oh and Democrats dont act like the rich are royalty.........Pelosi came into Orange County last month and attracted every fucking rich person around at something like 30 thousand a plate....all of them drooling over each other.....acting like she is the fucking Queen.....you would have loved it Dean....these were your kinda people.....people who think their shit dont stink.....of course if you were there your Queen would have had you waiting tables....sorry,you dont cut it....your not rich enough to "mingle" with the snobs.....

Oh please...what about John Boehner's frequent golf junkets? How do you think he stays so tanned? I rest my case on the tit-for-tat bullshit.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Personally I don't think you have a clue what conservative thought is.

First of all being conservative means you resist change, but when things change they don't try to influence it unnaturally like Liberals do. Secondly they believe that everyone should be rewarded according to their gifts rather then just sucking off of everyone else. So they don't believe everyone should be the same. There are winners and there are losers...that's a fact of nature.

Conservatives try to let the market iron itself out rather then impose rules and regulations designed to stifle creativity and originality. They don't use Marxism to point fingers at the wealthy using class-warfare while they're busy enriching themselves. Sure there are some that try to rig the system...but that's not the fault of conservatives. That's part of human nature. Greed infects people on both sides of the isle. Just look at Nancy Pelosi and her private jets, Obama and his extravagant demands.

what a bunch of bullshit!

 

[Dr Grump]

Communist doctrine demands that all people are created equal, but as Orwell pointed out, 'some are more equal than others'. IOW, the reality is a whole lot different.

Are you claiming that some people are more equal than others (fuck off and die, nazi scumbag) or that communism states such a thing (fuck off, you ignorant scumbag)?

With conservatives (on this board anyway), they want everybody to be equal. ie: if you work hard, are not a lazy arse, then you will get the rewards you deserve just like everybody else.

Funny, that's what most communist systems propose.

Now, the thing is, if we all managed to fulfil the Conservative Doctrine - ie, full employment, work hard, and enjoy the fruits of our labour, then isn't that communism? We'll all be the same? We all would have the same working conditions etc?

Except conservatives don't stand for such things. They support capitalism and its children- corporatism, coorporate oligarchy, and colonialism. Capitalists stand for exploitation. Most conservatives are capitalists (unless they take the idea of the status quo ante all the way back to early socialist communities)

One of the original tenets of communism was that everybody worked for the good of the collective, and thus the rewards - in theory - should be the same. This is what Marx, Lenin et al sold to the people. Do you think the guy who swept Red Square had a dacha on the Black Sea like Stalin? I doubt it.

I agree re capitalism....but they also sell the dream (well in America at least), that if everybody works hard, then you can look after yourself and family and everything will be fine. This is not true and will never be a reality....

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Too bad, I liked your rant.

Once uber conservatives who think like that ^ take the leap from ideology to the real world, they find it's not so easy. Thus we have all those pro-Bush folks who will now deny they ever were and are attempting to reformulate that old non-workable ideology all over again.

Conservatism works in real life. It's Liberalism and Progressivism that doesn't work the way they want. You see your philosophy works in a classroom at Harvard but whenever it's applied it always ends up in the same disastrous manner. Then you loose favor with the voters and your asses have to whine about it for years until you can fool enough people into trusting you again.

Conservatism's not an ideology.

Liberalism doesn't 'work'? Good to know you agree. The FF would have disagreed, though.

We are 'progressives'; we differ only what what we deem progress and what we deem the final destination.

How does one 'loose favor'?

Just like it is happening today by trying to cramp your programs down people throats.

[

B]Conservatism's not an ideology.[/B]

And by being ignorant .
We know the final destination of your progressive nightmare.
Forced labor and gas chambers .
No thanks.

 

[Dr Grump]

I want to freedom to work, create, succeed, or fail without the help or hinderence of government. If that's communist, then you are smoking some powerful weed.

I think most people want that....

 

[Dr Grump]

The communists are on the left and the left is full of %&#@%. Conservatives want people to be self sufficient and not dependent on the gov't like the left wants.

The left doesn't want to be dependent on the govt, but do realise govt does have a role to play. How big that role is, is the question.

I've never heard a conservative complain about the amount of money spent on defense....is that too big a government for you?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Just like it is happening today by trying to cramp your programs down people throats.

Such as?

And by being ignorant .
We know the final destination of your progressive nightmare.
Forced labor and gas chambers .
No thanks.

I support forced labour and gas chambers only as punishment for murderers and other persons guilty of horrible crimes.

My vision would be more like extending the FEC into a union (a compromise between federation and confederation, much like the FF envisioned) of independent townships and cites, working together for mutual defense, coordinating the development of infrastructure, working together to ensure the peace (eg: extraditing criminals), and encouraging fair trade. It would be governed in a federalist manner, with each level of cooperation being weaker than those behind it in all areas save coordination of military forces and specific legislative and other functions (eg: the universal ban on unjustifiable homicide- murder and manslaughter- cannot be overruled by any town or state). The system would be supported through taxation- that is an income tax would help support the functions of the central government while local taxes would fund city/county/state functions and projects (as this Union was meant to be).

Sound familiar? It's what the Founding Fathers envisioned and set forth in the Constitution of the united States. The primary difference is that in my 'Red Republic' (if you need something to call it), corporate charters would not be recognized and there would be very strong Constitutional language limiting the actions of the central government (the Fed, under the current system) and coops would be encouraged while companies would not be able to sell their products in the country unless their factories met our environmental and workers' rights laws, regardless of where the factories were located. This prevents the child labour and environmental devastation characteristic of the current system. All states/cities would be required to provide emergency medical care and routine physicals for all citizens. The means of doing so (local clinics, public insurance, or whatever) would be left to the member States and the jurisdiction beneath them, although public clinics would be encouraged over publicly owned insurance companies.

That is my vision. That is what you fear: a nation, not to unlike that promised by the FF, built on human rights.

 

[jillian]

Conservatives are a bunch of little red hens.


(Anyone else remember that story? Favorite at our household)

those who do the work should get the fruits of their labor

how do you figure that conservatives are the ones who do the work?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Conservatives are a bunch of little red hens.


(Anyone else remember that story? Favorite at our household)

those who do the work should get the fruits of their labor

RIGHT ON!! Those who do the work should benefit from their labor. How much work did George H. W. Bush do, George W. Bush, Neil Bush, Barbara Bush, Jeb Bush, etc.?
How many Bush's gave their life to America? How many Cheney's? How many Libby's? How many Hannity's, Limbaughs, O'Reilly's? How many RW signers of the PNAC?
NONE!
Walk through any National Cemetery and read the names and dates of birth. Bush and Cheney and the other SOB's of the RW send other peoples kids to the grave.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Just like it is happening today by trying to cramp your programs down people throats.

Such as?

And by being ignorant .
We know the final destination of your progressive nightmare.
Forced labor and gas chambers .
No thanks.

I support forced labour and gas chambers only as punishment for murderers and other persons guilty of horrible crimes.

My vision would be more like extending the FEC into a union (a compromise between federation and confederation, much like the FF envisioned) of independent townships and cites, working together for mutual defense, coordinating the development of infrastructure, working together to ensure the peace (eg: extraditing criminals), and encouraging fair trade. It would be governed in a federalist manner, with each level of cooperation being weaker than those behind it in all areas save coordination of military forces and specific legislative and other functions (eg: the universal ban on unjustifiable homicide- murder and manslaughter- cannot be overruled by any town or state). The system would be supported through taxation- that is an income tax would help support the functions of the central government while local taxes would fund city/county/state functions and projects (as this Union was meant to be).

Sound familiar? It's what the Founding Fathers envisioned and set forth in the Constitution of the united States. The primary difference is that in my 'Red Republic' (if you need something to call it), corporate charters would not be recognized and there would be very strong Constitutional language limiting the actions of the central government (the Fed, under the current system) and coops would be encouraged while companies would not be able to sell their products in the country unless their factories met our environmental and workers' rights laws, regardless of where the factories were located. This prevents the child labour and environmental devastation characteristic of the current system. All states/cities would be required to provide emergency medical care and routine physicals for all citizens. The means of doing so (local clinics, public insurance, or whatever) would be left to the member States and the jurisdiction beneath them, although public clinics would be encouraged over publicly owned insurance companies.

That is my vision. That is what you fear: a nation, not to unlike that promised by the FF, built on human rights.

Wow.

 

[Avatar4321]

I want to freedom to work, create, succeed, or fail without the help or hinderence of government. If that's communist, then you are smoking some powerful weed.

I think most people want that....

Then why on earth so many argue to empower government to control every aspect of our lives? It's designed not to specifically so we can remain free.

 

[Dr Grump]

I want to freedom to work, create, succeed, or fail without the help or hinderence of government. If that's communist, then you are smoking some powerful weed.

I think most people want that....

Then why on earth so many argue to empower government to control every aspect of our lives? It's designed not to specifically so we can remain free.

You make a good point....to a degree.

At the end of the day, corporations can't be trusted....If corporations were a lot more realistic and moral - and the bottom line wasn't all about money - then I think there would be an excellent case for less govt involvement in a whole slew of things. Unfortunately, at every turn - in my experience - corporations will get away with what they can...