Why can't Americans have a vacation?

[tinydancer]

I really should have some fun seeing what their vacation perks are.

Among the procedures which have been carried out at taxpayers' expense on teachers in Buffalo, New York, in recent years are nose jobs, liposuction, breast implants and Botox injections.

Last year, the town's 3,400 teachers spent $5.9 million (£3.74 million) of public money on enhancing their appearance, at a time when the school district is forecast to run a $42 million (£27 million) deficit.

The free treatment for public servants in Buffalo including police officers and firefighters began in the 1970s, as a way of covering the costs of caring for burn and gunshot victims at a time when plastic surgery was relatively uncommon.

Teachers in cash-strapped US school district get free plastic surgery - Telegraph

 

[Dragonlady]

I think that that there needs to be certain employment standards. In Canada, you have the right to two weeks' paid vacation, but some people take it as 4% vacation pay. My husband gets a week off at Christmas when his company shuts down, which is unpaid, so he just usually takes that as his vacation and maybe an extra three-day weekend or two in the summer and that's it. He gets his 4% vacation pay July 1st every year. Two weeks vacation is the standard in his industry.

In my field, staff with my skills and experience can negotiate their own packages. My minimum starting point was 3 weeks paid vacation (high stress job), but my preference was 4. One firm told me that they always offered 3 weeks for those with 10 years or more experience because they found it impossible to get good people otherwise. When working in a high pressure, high stress field, vacations are what keep people at the top of their game.

 

[anotherlife]

Really? Hard to believe. Which industry sector, and which state/region of the US?

I life in SF Bay Area and work in high tech.

So what you are in effect saying is "I got mine, screw the rest of you". Nice attitude.

In white, middle class jobs that not everyone is capable of doing, vacations are one of the "perks" you get. For workers in low tech fields where unemployment is high, there are no such "perks". There are long hours for little pay and if you take time off, you're easily replaced.

In order to cut costs and reduce overhead, even some hich-tech companies have simply let workers go and expected those whose jobs remain to work longer hours. One of my friends was in this situation. He went from working a 40 hour 5-day week to a 60-hour 6-day week simply so his company could make more money. His pay did not increase. Had my friend not been within 5 years of retirement, he would have left and gone elsewhere.

Absolutely true, and we got to the core of American culture and American values.

Too "bad", America is losing its bargaining chips now about the sustainability of this culture. So we know we are gonners now.

 

[boedicca]

I think that that there needs to be certain employment standards. In Canada, you have the right to two weeks' paid vacation, but some people take it as 4% vacation pay. My husband gets a week off at Christmas when his company shuts down, which is unpaid, so he just usually takes that as his vacation and maybe an extra three-day weekend or two in the summer and that's it. He gets his 4% vacation pay July 1st every year. Two weeks vacation is the standard in his industry.

In my field, staff with my skills and experience can negotiate their own packages. My minimum starting point was 3 weeks paid vacation (high stress job), but my preference was 4. One firm told me that they always offered 3 weeks for those with 10 years or more experience because they found it impossible to get good people otherwise. When working in a high pressure, high stress field, vacations are what keep people at the top of their game.

Wow. What an "I've got mine, screw you attitude"!

 

[Mr Natural]

Vacations are for pussies and communists

 

[anotherlife]

Perhaps others should improve their skills and marketability so they have more negotiating leverage for a compensation package.

No, we can't do that. That would require self accountability and responsibility. That's not fair.

No. That would require money. And money is what we increasingly don't have any more.

 

[tinydancer]

Why Americans are afraid to take a vacation | MNN - Mother Nature Network

Americans aren't taking vacations. And, it's not because they can't afford them. Instead, a steady stream of research over the past year revealed that Americans are afraid to take time off from work for fear of appearing less than dedicated to their employer.

Whether it's not using provided vacation time or coming to the office when sick, research over the past year has shown that U.S. employees are afraid to be out of the office.

In a recent survey from workforce consulting firm Right Management, 70 percent of employees said they weren't using all their earned vacation days in 2011. In addition, research from Jet Blue Airways discovered most employees leave an average of 11 vacation days on the table, or 70 percent of their total allotted time off.

Right Management senior vice president Michael Haid said the perceived environment that now prevails at many organizations seems to recognize devotion to the job to the exclusion of nearly everything else.

BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID !

Oh but what you are forgetting is the why so many are afraid.

The workers are not afraid of the boss or the company in so many situations. They are terrified of their co workers.

Hence we really need another thread. But truth out you have to remember that there is always some demon aka co worker going for your job whilst you are away....

aka back stabbers.

 

[Dragonlady]

One has to be willing to move. If I was younger I would be smack dab in an oil field in Alberta or in North Dakota.

Thousands of jobs. Fabulous money. I'd be racking up the bucks.

My grandson is in Alberta now. He's not exactly raking in big bucks but he's working and getting decent money.

People can't always just pack up and move. If you have a family, you have to have enough money saved to find a new place to live and to support your family until you have a job. When I was young and single and had no one to worry about but myself, I could pack a bag and move too, or go on the road to try my hand at photography, but once I was married and had children, no.

 

[Si modo]

There are many jobs out there that provide more vacation.
I've had jobs at 2 banks years ago...what sucked was we only had 2 weeks vacation and we had to take the whole 2 weeks at one time, we couldn't split it up!

The job i've now had for 20 yrs i do have 4 weeks vacation now (after 15 yrs). I can take more, but they're unpaid then. There's other companies that give you more time sooner....i guess i could have tried to find one of them. But i don't see what's wrong with "earning" more time off by working hard and just being a good employee. I know people at work that don't work, don't earn shit because they're lazy....they don't deserve time off, they take it at work!

Isn't the very idea of having to accrue and earn your vacation at work an odd concept? Other countries incorporate in in the job offer instead of playing this hidden catch-and-lose with it. The accrual/earn concept of vacations seems dishonest from the employer.

Why is earning something such an odd concept to you?

 

[anotherlife]

That's why getting a good education is important. Did you tell him that?

My friend has a PHD in a highly technical field. I think he knows the value of a good education. He was also an early computer genius who wrote a number of the program applications for weather forecasting and hurricane tracking.

His story actually has quite a happy ending. A couple of years after the greedy assholes he worked for pulled this number on him, he forced him into early retirement. They fired him. On his last day there, they told him they wanted to consult with him from time to time and he quoted them a consulting fee of $1000 a day. They said they thought he would consult with them for free. Yeah right.

During the weeks between the date they announced he was "retiring" and his final day, a number of the firm's customers contacted my friend and asked if he could continue his work for them. Since he has all of his home computers, and copies of all of his programming and modelling software, the answer is "yes", so now my friend is working from home, at his own pace, for a number of select clients.

And his former employers got screwed in the bargain. I call that a win/win.

This story is great, but I think his former employer can sue him for "unfair direct competition" and put him out of business immediately, if they ever decide to. He is using his former employer's clients plus a software that is the property of that company even if he developed it. He is surviving out of the good will and discretion of the people who fired him!

 

[anotherlife]

One of the 2 major home improvement chains in the USA gives part time employees only half days of vacation pay. If you take a "days" vacation you lose 4 hours pay. And you are not allowed to rake 2 half days on the same day.
As a result a friend of mine who works there cannot afford to take any vacation at all.
Rather cunning of them don't you think?

Exactly the type of things I opened this thread for. The core of American culture, and Americans' eagerness to shoot themselves in the foot.

 

[tinydancer]

One has to be willing to move. If I was younger I would be smack dab in an oil field in Alberta or in North Dakota.

Thousands of jobs. Fabulous money. I'd be racking up the bucks.

My grandson is in Alberta now. He's not exactly raking in big bucks but he's working and getting decent money.

People can't always just pack up and move. If you have a family, you have to have enough money saved to find a new place to live and to support your family until you have a job. When I was young and single and had no one to worry about but myself, I could pack a bag and move too, or go on the road to try my hand at photography, but once I was married and had children, no.

And I do understand that one can't always just get up and go. When my husband had the chance to go to Saturn I folded all my cards up here and we shot off to Tennessee, it was probably the best move of our lives. I was blessedly stuck with a great ex husband who not only loved the fact he could come visit on the company dime with the kids, but he rejoiced he could walk on Beale.

But some times when the move comes, when that bell rings, you have to run with that hope. Mine turned out fabulously.

And kudos to your grandson. Grab life as an adventure. Hold on. Rock it. My next door neighbors are these wonderous children.

I've been left to tend to their house and their solar panel. They are in Quebec teaching children this year.

I love these hearts of soul so big that they rock the planet. We need more of them. And we are truly blessed that they are among us.

 

[Si modo]

That's why getting a good education is important. Did you tell him that?

My friend has a PHD in a highly technical field. I think he knows the value of a good education. He was also an early computer genius who wrote a number of the program applications for weather forecasting and hurricane tracking.

His story actually has quite a happy ending. A couple of years after the greedy assholes he worked for pulled this number on him, he forced him into early retirement. They fired him. On his last day there, they told him they wanted to consult with him from time to time and he quoted them a consulting fee of $1000 a day. They said they thought he would consult with them for free. Yeah right.

During the weeks between the date they announced he was "retiring" and his final day, a number of the firm's customers contacted my friend and asked if he could continue his work for them. Since he has all of his home computers, and copies of all of his programming and modelling software, the answer is "yes", so now my friend is working from home, at his own pace, for a number of select clients.

And his former employers got screwed in the bargain. I call that a win/win.

This story is great, but I think his former employer can sue him for "unfair direct competition" and put him out of business immediately, if they ever decide to. He is using his former employer's clients plus a software that is the property of that company even if he developed it. He is surviving out of the good will and discretion of the people who fired him!

Only if there was a competition clause in any separation agreement.

 

[boedicca]

My friend has a PHD in a highly technical field. I think he knows the value of a good education. He was also an early computer genius who wrote a number of the program applications for weather forecasting and hurricane tracking.

His story actually has quite a happy ending. A couple of years after the greedy assholes he worked for pulled this number on him, he forced him into early retirement. They fired him. On his last day there, they told him they wanted to consult with him from time to time and he quoted them a consulting fee of $1000 a day. They said they thought he would consult with them for free. Yeah right.

During the weeks between the date they announced he was "retiring" and his final day, a number of the firm's customers contacted my friend and asked if he could continue his work for them. Since he has all of his home computers, and copies of all of his programming and modelling software, the answer is "yes", so now my friend is working from home, at his own pace, for a number of select clients.

And his former employers got screwed in the bargain. I call that a win/win.

This story is great, but I think his former employer can sue him for "unfair direct competition" and put him out of business immediately, if they ever decide to. He is using his former employer's clients plus a software that is the property of that company even if he developed it. He is surviving out of the good will and discretion of the people who fired him!

Only if there was a competition clause in any separation agreement.

Most high tech companies use something known as a "Proprietary Information and Inventions Agreement" that is part of the employment arrangement when an employee is hired. If he is using his former employer's proprietary information to compete with them, he is likely already in violation of a legal agreement.

 

[Darkwind]

We just cashed out a couple of weeks. I went shopping.

On a serious note, when my husband was with this one company in Ontario, the head honchos over in Germany were always on vacation. Rog had to contact everyone at their vacation destinies just to keep the Canadian plant going.

It was wild. It was like "does anyone work over there"?

And yet, Germany does almost as good as the USA in every aspect. Shows how meaningles is the American anti-vacation mentality.

Uh, you haven't proven that Americans have an anti-vacation mentality, bub.

I'd like to see him prove that germany is anywhere near as good as the USA.

 

[tinydancer]

This story is great, but I think his former employer can sue him for "unfair direct competition" and put him out of business immediately, if they ever decide to. He is using his former employer's clients plus a software that is the property of that company even if he developed it. He is surviving out of the good will and discretion of the people who fired him!

Only if there was a competition clause in any separation agreement.

Most high tech companies use something known as a "Proprietary Information and Inventions Agreement" that is part of the employment arrangement when an employee is hired. If he is using his former employer's proprietary information to compete with them, he is likely already in violation of a legal agreement.

I'm trying not to stroke out here. Are you serious? I retired in my 40's so I'm not up to speed on this.

Is this the PIA I've been seeing lately? Whoa geeze.

 

[anotherlife]

I suggest you think about it some more. It's not as simple as the "offshoring" meme the left spouts off.

ok.

General Electric.
Bain Capital
Assembly and manufacturing plants


Report: America Lost 2.7 Million Jobs to China in 10 Years - US News and World Report

What does faux news have to say about this?

10 States Losing the Most Jobs to China | Fox Business

Well... shit.

So you googled some links that reinforced your preconceived opinion. Congrats.

Now try thinking for a change and answer the following questions:

- What happens when the size of government relative to GDP increases by 25% in four years?

- What happens when laws are passed that legislators neither read nor understand, and which are then "interpreted" by unelected regulators who create reams of complicated regulations?

- What happens when tax rates and policies are not fixed and determinable, and businesses cannot do a financial plan due to lack of proper estimates regarding their tax burdens?

- Given that 80-85% of jobs in the U.S. are created by small businesses, what is the impact of an entrepreneur diverting capital to tax and regulatory compliance instead of core products and services?

- Why should investors risk capital when the leader of a country constantly threatens to increase taxes and demands that they pay their "fair share"?

So what happens? The answer is that government expands to dampen the destructive effects of mass populations running hungry. Currently this seems to require a 25 % expansion, as per your post. What would you do when all labor markets are cornered away by whatever, globalization, corporate consolidations, and so on?

 

[tinydancer]

And yet, Germany does almost as good as the USA in every aspect. Shows how meaningles is the American anti-vacation mentality.

Uh, you haven't proven that Americans have an anti-vacation mentality, bub.

I'd like to see him prove that germany is anywhere near as good as the USA.

Do you know what Germany is doing now?

They are sending off their elderly to die overseas.....

 

[anotherlife]

Ah no. You are missing my point. I am not anti vacation whatsoever; I was my own employee when I was in the music industry. You have to take time off. You must take time to refresh yourself.

I think it's crucial to the health of any company. Small or large.

But there were certain individuals in this company my husband used to work for who had, albeit fair and square in negotiatians accrued the right to 4 months of vacation per year.

Well that's one third of a fiscal year. I watched this place crumble because they hit excess.

That's all.

Well, I agree, 4 MONTHS are not a balance either. But starting with max. 2 weeks isn't either. The popular employer-rules-all is just as bad as the employee-rules-all, there must be a balance, like a supply-demand balance of vacation days. This is violated now like all other balances. Employers are cornering away more markets, and they are cornering away the vacation days too. Your husband's situation is a far outlier.

On many of your points I agree. I have seen workplace environments swing too far; a pendulum on meth if you will.

For me, having been only a small business owner my relationship with my few employees was very personal. Mental and physical health wasn't a matter of an employee relation program.

My so called employees were also my friends. You have to be primo to be a good employee. And if you are any employer, you have to treat those who work for you as royalty who deserve every accolade for the best works they achieve.

Sadly, many companies aren't that way.

This one of my husbands that I pointed out where the disparity was so overwhelming the company almost went bankrupt.

They gave them too much. I wish we could find a decent answer but government regulations usually fail. Makes matters worse in most situations.

I think it is already government regulations that define all other aspects of your business, international export regulations for example, and the lawyers you hire about it, to be your 10th and 11th employee.

 

[anotherlife]

The Cognitive Dissonance of the lefties in this thread is more astounding than usual. They whine that their aren't jobs while advocating for unearned benefits which will cause employers to hire even less people.

Go figure.

Hence the need for overbearing government regulations, however we all may hate it. I am a conservative, and I realize that we conservatives have sold out the farm, so all we have left now is liberal ideas or "starvation".